The U.S. and EU ban on Russian-made firearms is hitting the country’s rifle industry hard. How hard? Let’s just say that the Kalashnikov Concern – which went bankrupt in 2012 – is very. Concerned. But maybe not as concerned as the Russian ammunition industry. While seventy percent of Kalashnikov’s weapons went to U.S. gun owners, 80 percent of Russia’s overall ammunition exports go to American gunners. themoscowtimes.com reports that “Any additional sanctions targeting Russia’s arms industry could have a cascade effect that would destabilize Russia’s ammunition production industry.” Which would suck for the Motherland’s fighting forces. Or not. “The Russian military and security services have large stockpiles of ammunition, and since 1990 the volume of state ammunition orders have fallen 20-fold.” I guess Cold War 1.0 was good for the Russian Army. Ukraine-fired Cold War 2.0? We shall see. For thee? That’s another story.
I don’t have an issue with doing my part in giving up Russian ammo, but I’d prefer we fought back against Russian aggression by sending high tech weapons to Ukraine instead of MREs.
Never fear, The neocons at your loving state department have been funneling money into Ukraine for the last decade. They aren’t going to give it up without a fight. Careful what you wish for.
By ‘neocons’ I assume you mean Hillary Clinton.
Too many people toss around the term “neocon” without knowing what it means. Neocons are former leftists/liberals who embraced free-market economics and limited government, while remaining more or less socially liberal. Because we are so familiar with left wing politics, we provide an intellectual counter to The Left’s dogmatic and hallowed beliefs. Drives ’em nuts. There’s a special place in Liberal Hell for neocons. Hillary is a Progressive and is at the opposite end of the paradigm from free-market, small government politics.
You are correct, Mr. Hall. However the definition was changed by the liberal/progressive media to mean Dick Cheney, and that new definition is the most widely used. Much like the term liberal used to mean a supporter of individual rights and keeping government power in check, but the term was absconded by the people who believe in the exact opposite after they tainted the term ‘progressive’. Now you need to use the term ‘classical liberal’ or libertarian.
The new ‘neocon’ is basically someone who supports the Bush post 911 foreign policy of activist intervention in foreign affairs, which fits Hillary Clinton to a tee. Obama’s foreign policy on the other hand, is to dazzle the media with bullsh!t and go play golf.
Hillary Clinton, Diane Feinstine, John McCain, Lindsey Graham etc. Basically statists, some of whom left the Democratic party over the anti – war sentiment of the 70s and some of whom just make up for it by pandering to liberals on other issues.
“The new ‘neocon’ is basically someone who supports the Bush post 911 foreign policy of activist intervention in foreign affairs . . .”
Except perhaps for libertarianism, a movement which was rather dramatically expanded by the defection of 60’s left/liberals (AKA neocons) who were as appalled and disgusted by the excesses of Nixon era as Carter era statism. We’re all over the place. Oh, it also helped to be a former hippie. Cheney was never a hippie. I bet he never even got high.
Ha! You never heard? Dick Cheney got high on the blood of Iraqi children!
@Garrison Hall:
“Neocons are former leftists/liberals who embraced free-market economics and limited government, while remaining more or less socially liberal.”
No, what you’re describing is a libertarian.
Because of their roots in old-school liberal wing of the Democratic Party, the neoconservatives heartily endorsed a great amount of domestic regulation as well. The late “Scoop” Jackson from Washington was a strong environmentalist, for instance. They also endorsed an aggressive / interventionist foreign policy.
I’ve never seen a neoconservative work for ‘limited government’ in any sense.
If Hillary Clinton isn’t a neoconservative, then no one is.
Hillary Clinton is also a WITCH (real) she had Jean Dixson call up FDR’s dead wife – to talk to her………You are talking some real very real sick 0’s ………
Invoking the supernatural is on par with their other “techniques”, Maybe more useful. But of all the things that I despise her for, that just makes me laugh. Lets stick to accusing her of leftist/statist/progressive/freedom stifling policies, questionable associations, incompetence, being a manic psycho, and ugly.
Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, the Kagans, Vicky Nuland, John McCain etc. etc. Trotskyite operatives from the Leo Strauss / Zbig Brezezinksi school of foreign policy. Pretty sure I used the term in the correct manner.
They are just not neo-cons they are truly One World and care not a DIME for America or the American people……….
@Garrison Hall I agree with jkp, it sounds like what you describe is on the libertarian spectrum somewhere. Neoconservatives are people like Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, the Clintons and many former Bush staffers. These people are gun grabbers at home and always want to arm people (who usually want to hurt us or wind up wanting to hurt us at some point) abroad. Think-tankers and NGO people – Project for a New American Century was an (in)famous neoconservative initiative / think tank. I don’t think you really identify with these folks but that’s my $0.02.
I’m down to only 2 ex commie guns. My mak and my mosin. Both are range toys that I have a good supply of ammo for and if the supply dry’s up I have no problems putting them in storage til better times come.
My russian sks went in a trade for a beretta shotgun and I gave away the rest of my mosins.
In the middle of the last AWB scare, I traded my only commie gun, a Yugo 59/66 SKS and a sealed crate of 7.62×39 (1260rds) on stripper clips for a NIB 5″ 1911 R1 Enhanced. Yep, it was a straight-up even trade. Thank You, O’bama!
I got my sks at a gun show for 99 bucks.
99 bucks? dang! VG deal. I think, I paid $260 total w/ FFL n shipping for the SKS and $230 w/ shipping for the ammo. My LGS offered me $600 on the SKS and $400 on the ammo. The R1 was tagged @ $900ish plus tax. Even trade. Spit on our hands and shook. I’m still happy with this trade. I have never been so lucky in my life. LGS bundled the SKS and ammo for $1200 and it sold!
That was during the 90’s when an sks was still sold as a C&R. Paid cash for it, got a sales slip and walked out with it. In CA. Things have really changed here. Not for the best.
I shake my head in disgust, every-time I hear abt the raping of our 2A in CA or anywhere else. I am in IL. Anyway, how do you like your beretta shotgun? worth the trade? Miss your SKS? I do not miss my SKS, it was fun to shoot, but pain in the ass to clean. And the R1 is funer-er to shoot and easier-er to clean.
Haven’t shot the beretta yet. Too many guns, not enough time. It looks like a Benelli on the inside. Semi auto 12 ga.
Not seeing a big bump in prices just yet.
I used gunbot to find a 440 round spam can of ammo for my (new to me) mosin carbine.
$115.00 delivered.
I thought that was pretty good.
7.62x54R milsurp mostly comes from Bulgaria these days, so sanctions won’t affect it.
Good thing I got out of my AKs. I only have a Saiga-20 that I’m trying to sell now. Seems like nobody wants those though lol.
Good riddance, hopefully an American company would have a chance to match their price point. Americans over price everything and then China, Russia, Asia major take over. Silly for stuff to be coming over on a boat and still be cheaper…
Don’t get me wrong, I love wolf, but I’ve been trying to buy everything locally lately.
Buying mission critical stuff from other countries is a recipe for disaster, even if it is only through their culture of negligence (not implying anything about any specific country)
Really how hard could it be move it all domestically….. cue internet warriors…
Well it’s more expensive to make stuff without sweat shop labor, and Anerican stuff tends to be made a whole lot better than Chinese and Russisn imports.
I don’t really fear it. Especially since this is being done to show that some people in our government are “hard” on the Russian president. Basically it’s for the “optics”. When said people are gone so will the ban.
I don’t think so.
The Norinco (chinese company) firearms ban is still ongoing. Want to bet people said the same thing about it when it was conceived?
Keep in mind what Norinco was caught doing. That kind of stuff was pretty bad.
Thoug I agree that once a ban is in place wrt guns, there doesn’t seem to be much precedent in it either expiring or being revoked.
“Keep in mind what Norinco was caught doing. That kind of stuff was pretty bad.”
Well, the Russians gave the rebels medium SAM systems that they used to shoot down an airliner. That is also pretty bad.
If the ban had been ordered by Congress then I would believe that when the current ban would expire. However since its an executive order from sir putts-a-lot I’m afraid it will be like the one that took away our Chinese ammo and rifles back in 94.
Well in my defense I was thinking about the clinton black riffle (ar-15) ban.
my Mak is my only complaint. but then again there are a few other makers for SD or non steel ammo.
One of the Russian products that would be hard to replace is reasonably priced.22lr match ammo. Priced Eley lately?
What’s stopping the Russians from exporting their ammo to non-sanctioned countries and then re-sold?
Initially, nothing.
Of course, if our President or Congress bans direct Russian imports, nothing stops them from subsequently banning indirect Russian imports.
@Geoff PR, the Russians would need a partner for such a workaround, and it would have to be a partner that’s in good graces with both the US and Russia, a stout trading partner of the US, unafraid of alienating US interests yet trusted by the US. It’s hard to think of any country that fits that bill.
In any case, the US could maintain that the sale and resale was a sham to avoid the embargo, and deny the import.
As a reloader, I only keep and use small amounts of Russian steel case ammo. I am still concerned about the possibility of renewed brass-cased ammo shortages if the steel-cased supply dries up. In the last year, I have purchased a few boxes of Russian branded brass-cased ammo which was labeled as coming from various south-eastern European countries. I wonder what increased sanctions would do to these rebranded supplies.
On a related note: Earlier this month at a local fun-show, for the first time since the things got bad in 2012, there were ZERO cases of Mosins at the show. Although there were a few scattered Mosins around the various dealers, there were no crates visible.
Yes, I am concerned about Russian ammunition sanctions. While I don’t shoot any significant amount of Russian ammunition, it represents a fair percentage of the overall supply in our nation. And if that portion of supply evaporates, the total supply goes down, which normally drives prices up.
I am also saddened to see the supply of Mosin Nagant rifles dwindling. They were a decent, super inexpensive bolt-action rifle for people who could not afford something more exciting.
Cabela’s always seem to have plenty of Mosin’s, but they keep going up in price.
This. A dramatic drop in supply even in a single caliber will drive the prices of ALL calibers up.
Its also concerning because its a backhanded and apparently legal way for them to restrict the ability of citizens to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.
On the flip side, in spite of possible sanctions on Russian ammunition, I thought I read that several domestic ammunition manufacturers are in the process of expanding their domestic ammunition production capacity. If the price of raw materials stays the same, that should drive prices down if there are no sanctions and offset any potential increase in prices (from current levels) if there are sanctions.
Is it safe to say it would be an opportunity for other countries producing this same ammo (at or around the same price point), and they would quickly make up for the supply shortage? The demand will still be there. Seems like there’s always someone who will see the opportunity and quickly fill that niche. Of course there would be some price shock in the interim… Having said that, I’d prefer of course that we are not cut off from Russian exports. Sure would have liked a Saiga in the collection and love those cases of cheap Russian x39.
I think 7.63×39 is one of the world’s more common ammo selections. One of the first things tin-pot dictators do is secure a good ammo supply, starting up their own 7.62×39 manufacturing lines. Getting the stuff cheap out of Russia is easy as compared to Egypt or Myanmar but it’s there and can probably be bought if you’re brave enough. And market dynamics usually mean that someone’s going to cut the deals. Ammo’s fungable. If you can’t get it one place, you can get it someplace else.
Have no fear for the Russian military. When the Russians left east Germany we found out the Soviets had 10 times more ammo by themselves that all of the NATO countries combined. Only 10% was usable because they stored it on open ground but I’m sure that the Russians did a better job storing it in the motherland and its overflowing.
A ban on Russian Ammo will work both ways , any attack on the free market will back fire , the shortage or no Russian ammo will HURT the American shooters , drive up prices AGAIN, and The Fed. again is already in DEEP trouble so China and Russia and India will UP BRICS money supply and kill the PETRO DOLLAR and CRASH ALL AMERICAN MARKETS ,,, WE Will lose/lose again >THANKS OBANA for failed policy no. 10,000…
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or straight infowars-level stupid. Poe’s law wins again!
7.62×39 can be procured from Romania, Korea, Bulgaria and a few other countries. 5.45×39 is another story. They pulled the plug on imports of 7n6 “poison bullets” already and all of the Wolf 5.45 comes from Russia and Ukraine. Russian separatists have taken over the Ukrainian ammo plant so if Russian ammo gets cut off, it’ll take a couple years for that production and supply gap to be filled.
The slow strangulation of the ammo supply continues apace. The government will continue to buy it, ban it or restrict it until there’s none left at a price that anyone can afford. It’s the ultimate 2A workaround.
I picked up my first Mosin since ammo was cheap and available all through the recent shortages. So much for that plan. Maybe time to stock up on Easton 2314s instead.
I do 98% of my shooting with Russian Steel case ammo. I do a very, very high volume of shooting. When I can not get Russian Ammo I have to go to other sources. A lot of other people are in the same boat. This is sure to cause shortages and price hikes.
It is in all our best interest to support Free Trade regardless of the country of origin. Keep politics and business separate.
Business and politics will never be separate. This can be both good and bad. Ever wonder why we haven’t gone to war with Saudi Arabia and China? Because we don’t bomb clients.
Being a client and/or customer to the U.S. is no guarantee that there won’t be a conflict. Before U.S. entered WWII, Japan was one of the biggest customers for our oil at a time when the U.S. was actually one of the leading exporters of oil. That didn’t stop us, however, from cutting of trade and imposing sanctions on Japan when they invaded China.
And some call preppers crazy. Crazy like a fox maybe. Which makes me very glad that I have stockpiled Russian Milsurp and Commercial ammo over the years. If there are sanctions imposed I have enough ammo for at least two lifetimes (maybe more).
I’ve really changed my opinion about the Russia-Ukrain issue and now think that we should try to be a good ally to Russia and continue to lead them towards our way of thinking. I say get rid of the sanctions. We should be working to get Putin out of government, he is like Hoover in his staying power. You can’t say this is the same Russia as the Russia from 30 years ago. If Russia truly is evil there would be no Ukrain to speak about. I’m wondering how much of all this is politics, media hype and propaganda the same of which that successfully vilifies the United States foreign efforts and even intentional misinterpretation of the facts to suit a political agenda like labeling all shootings involving African Americans and cops police brutality. Right now it is hard to find out just what is really going on in the Ukrain, perhaps Russia is doing the right thing? Who knows, there is so much misinformation and propaganda driven journalism going on it is about impossible to decide who is right or wrong and who is lying or telling the truth from an impartial point of view. Whatever happens in the Ukrain will have zero effect on the United States economy.
Play both sides against each other ! WHY ? we fight each other and they get their NEW WORLD ORDER…and get rid of 80% of us and they have few to control …their words not mine ……….This is all one big GAME…….and we pay in Blood and cash…………
While seventy percent of Kalashnikov’s weapons went to U.S. gun owners, 80 percent of Russia’s overall ammunition exports go to American gunners. That is not totally surprising given the size of the American gun market.
I do love me some Brown Bear and Silver Bear ammo.
Saw this ban coming from a ways off. Got my bloc firearms and stocked Russian milsurp high and deep. My question is about what gets banned next in this “nibble away” approach to gun control? My guess is another attack on black rifles, but it’s tough to say for sure just yet. Any thoughts?
. I have tons of 7.62x54r.. I shoot the crap out of my mosin.. if ammo supplies dry up for it, ill Just park it knowing i got my moneys worth
I haven’t got rid of any commie guns in fact I bought a Vepr 12 and 5.45 Saiga to convert this month. You have to look at the overall percentage of commie calibers and how much Russia actually provides. Its not the entire commie caliber supply. A lot of countries continue make those calibers and they are importing them into the states. Taking the Russian supply out may drive up prices slightly, but they will still be available.
I have started to see the ZQ1 (Turkish) ammo at Walmart. $9.97 for a 20 round box of brass cased 7.62×51. I am not sure if it’s good but it is as cheap as Herters steel case. Other countries, such as Turkey, might pick up some of the slack.
I don’t fear it at all. I bought Tula Ammo 9mm before the Crimea incident (by mistake: I was hoping to get some American-made ammo), but I plan to only buy Remington after this.
The sanctions are disgusting. If people in some parts of the Ukraine (who are mostly Russian-speaking, ethnic Russians) want to be a part of Russia, let them be a part of Russia, and it is of no concern to the US whatsoever. Our policies have the effect of causing economic hardship for thousands, all so the politicians can pat themselves on the back for staring a second cold war, just for fun.
Meanwhile the American shooter gets shafted in the deal once again.
Tues. is election day in my area,, EVERYONE VOTE 2A……………….