“Many of the advocates of pro-gun legislation repeat the platitude that it is people who kill people, not guns. They are exactly right. I fear the kind of person, the kind of barely-not-a-child-anymore-student, who would want to carry a gun on campus, legally or otherwise. I fear that kid, and I don’t want to be around him. It isn’t his gun that scares me. What scares me is his brain, which controls the hand that controls the gun that can kill.” – Nate Kreuter in On Gun in My Classroom [via insidehighered.com]
Yes, yes. We’re all monsters to believe in self defense. If someone carries a gun, he might as well pull it out and start shooting. I see too many of these kinds of quotes.
i agree. anyone that has taken a look around and seen that this is a screwed up/violent world and does not wan to be a victim of it is a monster. sarcasm off.
Well, because we all know that the school’s approval to carry a gun on campus is all we’re waiting for to start carrying out our massacres. I’ve filed all the proper paperwork and should hear back in 6-8 weeks. Foiled again by those darn “gun free zone” signs.
I second this. I wish the people who share his thoughts (the guy writing the article) would respond to what you just said. It never seems to click with them and it would be nice to understand their thinking.
If someone wants to shoot you, he’s not going to care if there is a law that says he can’t carry a gun.
Are they just assuming that people are going to snap? “You gave me a C on this paper? Well I dont like that, so DIE! *bang bang*”
Unfortunately, yep. That’s what they think will happen.
We’re really nothing more than animals with no self control.
how else do you explain the current environment where every effort is made to explain why the killer killed, as opposed to condeming the act? And why whatever made it happen is wrong (and not the act of murder)?
Unfortunately it does happen.
That’s not the question.
The questions are when it happens again, will anyone be there to end it and how long will it take.
“I fear… I fear… What scares me…” – Nate Kreuter
This is what makes you a willing subject, Nate. Liberty requires courage and self-determination.
Courage comes from FACING fears. Never feeling fear is symptom of mental sickness.
Or an abnormal adrenal response. Fun to experience annoying as hell to live with. Regardless, demanding others change to accommodate your cowardice is dispicable.
These kids have seen too many westerns. Does this guy really think that a cc classmate is going to get pi$$ed off at him and just whip out a GUN and start shooting? This is a person who wants to restrict rights and endanger others (via gun free zones) to abate his fantasy of what might be. What he wants are laws that prevent “if”. A noble but dangerously naive goal that cannot be allowed to be achieved.
Irrational thought.
This article smells of “that time of the month”.
Just wanted to say hi to RF from a long time TTAC visitor back in the day when TTAC wasn’t frequented by retarded children and parasitic elitist liberal scolds.
Also wanted to let people know that today is the 100th anniversary of the federal mafia income tax…Happy Anniversary, Slaves!
“What scares me is his brain…”
In other words Mr. Kreuter is scared that someone is a free thinker and not willing to be a sheep.
And I’d rather all the other students and myself be helpless in the face of the statistical anomaly which chooses to murder everyone in the room despite the rules.
I also think it’s preferable for students to be rapped or subject to other violence than for me to have to address my own irrational anxieties.
I’m brave enough to sacrifice the people in my charge to make myself feel a little better.
/sarcasm.
No sarcasm needed. It’s his actual state of mind.
Well, what about “the kind of barely-not-a-child-anymore-student” who has studied martial arts for years? Are you scared of “his brain, which controls the hand” (and foot) that’s capable of killing or seriously injuring you? Maybe we should also ban anyone who has ever had any martial arts training from the classroom as well.
+1
Brilliant catch-22. If he wants to carry a gun, then he is to be feared, and therefore not allowed to carry. Implied: if he doesn’t want to carry a gun, he is not to be feared, and therefore, allowed to carry on campus – up to the moment when he actually wants to carry on campus.
But, “…what scares me is his brain” is the defining philosophy of higher education, which is why it is trying as hard as possible to corrupt, cripple, and enslave said brain.
I just re-read that book last week.
‘That’s some catch, that Catch-22,’ he observed.
‘It’s the best there is,’ Doc Daneeka agreed
My comment posted on insidehighered.com:
Mister Kreuter speaks quite a bit about his emotional state and resists using the logical portions of his brain. Carrying a handgun for self defense is not “mutually assured destruction” at all. He claims he “does not fear guns”, yet the entire essay is based around fear. He tries to conceal this fact with stories about hunting, but hunting is not the point of carrying a handgun for self-defense.
He is supposed to be preparing students for the trials of this life, but is unprepared himself. He has created a fantasy world within the walls of academia that bears no resemblance to the world we live in. Mister Kreuter would find a very different world if he would take an honest look at the carrying of handguns. He would learn that violent crime rates go down and that individuals are able to save themselves from criminals. He would also find that every state supreme court has ruled that the state as no obligation to protect anyone and is not liable for crime. He would learn that the police are merely armed men sworn into an office by the state who are not at his beck and call.
Mr. Kreuter should learn to shoot and carry a handgun. He will learn that it is serious business and that people act responsibly with their guns. He will understand over time that it does instill a sort of confidence in one’s abilities. This confidence does not manifest as bravado, but more as a calming effect. People carrying handguns understand the necessity of emotional intelligence and navigating through society without creating problems. In short, he would be one skill closer to being prepared for life in the real world.
Sigh, another obvious liberal/progressive (who I seriously doubt owns a gun let alone actually hunts), being ruled by his irrational fears and these are the people that are teaching our kids.
Why do parents put up with this insanity?
And yes Nate, if you quit because the school starts honoring a G-d given civil right to not be a helpless moving target in a mad man empowerment zone, then you will be doing something silly, again.
He’s saying is that people are quicker to CARRY a gun than they are to LEARN how to use it properly. Unfortunately, I know enough CHP holders who fit this description to understand what he’s talking about.
And why are we all attacking this guy? (oh I know, cuz it’s easy). Why aren’t we all acknowledging that he has a–small–point; that his concern is OUR concern and that we ALL should strive to become better with the guns we rely upon?
Better read the article again daveR, Nate is fearful of a law abiding student losing it and start killing people because of a bad grade, not because the student hasn’t practiced enough with his gun.
Yet you don’t complain about the freedom that you have that comes from those “barely grown up children” being drafted and forced to fight and die in wars for this country. The govt trusts them with grenade launchers, full auto machine guns, tanks, battleship guns, c4, landing 2 billion dollar jets, etc etc, but you are “afraid” because they might conceal a little handgun for personal protection? GTFO!
I suppose he believes the military has adult supervision and college students don’t or perhaps it’s the liberal fixation that uniforms contain magic pixie dust that makes military and law enforcement immune to the homicidal maniac effect which results from proximity to a firearm.
It’s the gun. He’s lying.
Then Nate, you ought to be scared shitless right now. Because, you see Nate, those brains, the ones that would like to carry, they’re all around you now. Are you saying you already are scared shitless? Now that’s a real problem (for you) there, Nate. Gonna have’ta look into some serious (common sense) brain control legislation, buddy. Oooh, you might be on to something. That, right there, is something Frankenfeinstein could really get behind.
We’re arguing with a joker that says his students are too immature to campus carry but he dresses like a 10th grader? Sounds like projection to me.
When I teach college, I dress and arm myself appropriately. Then students know who the prof is, though they don’t know he’s also ready to protect them on the off chance there’s a muderer in the building.
He is probably intimidated that others around him are mature enough to take personal responsibility for their own safety. Emotionally immature and with very little life experience, it’s a tough thing for a would-be adult to be reminded of his inability to make a grown-up decision. The very idea of being truly self-sufficient probably scares him to death and all the hipster beards in thew world can’t hide it.
Sure, but let ’em drink and then elect to operate an automobile, because you know, that’s a lot safer
Well – If I don’t have a problem sending our kids to war…Why would I be afraid of them defending themselves at home?
Then you got problems, buddy. Cause his brain can tell his hand to do a lot of things without that gun.
what I fear is, people living in close quarters (like a school or apartment complex) and everyone fearing the worst in strangers is the new normal
Brian S, your fear is not reality; I’ve carried a weapon for 15 years, It’s easy to tell the difference when a human predator is on the hunt, anyone can.
I’ll give an example, can you tell when a cat is on the hunt of a bird across the yard versus just crossing from one side of the yard to the other?
The human predator radiates the same “vibe”, as long as you have basic situational awareness: a human predator on the hunt practically has a flashing light on his head, if you are aware of your surroundings.
It’s called discernment.
In the process, I have seen that 99% percent of the people I meet during the day are basic law abiding citizens that I don’t need to worry about.
Don’t worry, be happy and know that you can trust most people out in the world and those very few you can’t, don’t worry, be happy, because you are now capable of defending yourself and other from thier depradations.
Well said.
The interesting thing is that after years of being an armed citizen, the habits persist regardless of whether I’m carrying or not. (In CA: mostly not. Sigh.) When I’m in a public environment, even a nominally safe one like my corporate campus, I habitually scan for potential threats. Most of the time I don’t see anything amiss, but every once in a while, there’s that one person or group of people who catch my attention…
How many testosterone pills did “he” take in order to grow that beard?
I want to represent Nate Kreuter’s efforts to patent the herbal concoction that grew that beard because we all know he doesn’t produce any testosterone or even take supplements — if he did he would NOT be scared of his students.
Mr. Kreuter, having read about your paranoia, let me share mine with you….
Al-Qaeda is still our sworn enemy and sorely hungering to kill US Citizens on US Soil. Now we have a Government that is reducing our Military to pre-WWII levels, planning to open the doors for foreign immigrants, destroying the economy and trying to disarm the Citizenry.
The immigrant piece of this agenda will make it far easier for Al-Qaeda to send agents into this country of all ages, including college age. These people believe that if they die for their cause, they will go directly to eternal paradise. They believe that killing US Citizens of all ages (little children, teenagers, college students, working adults and elderly) is a sacred duty and honor to their god and their people. They have accesss to money and weapons. They have time and patience. They mortally hate each and every one of us, including you, Mr. Kreuter.
If we deny our People the means to defend themselves and others, which is your apparent avowed goal, while opening our borders, we are granting Al-Qaeda an invitation to enter this Country and kill us at will. Their intent is criminal and their resources great, so whatever laws we put in place denying firearms and explosives to our law-abiding Citizenry does nothing to discourage them and everything to encourage them. It makes every American man, woman and child a target with a golden gate to paradise painted on them for every member of Al-Qaeda.
So, you “fear the brain” of your fellow American, Countryman, brother and sister, but I “fear the brain” of a foreign, sworn, mortal enemy driven by religious zeal, envy, and hatred of every American, hatred for the history between our peoples, thirsting for revenge for Osama Bin Laden and the countless others of their kind we have killed, and sworn to vengeance against us at any cost.
What will you say, Mr.Kreuter, when Al-Qaeda is dancing in the streets celebrating the mass murder of American School Children by one of their “holy saints of vengeance”, or the bombing and killing of scores of American College Students, or the slaughter of American Business workers in a factory and/or office, the Fathers and Mothers whose children will never feel their Parent’s love and comfort again, or the mass deaths of entire American Families in a bombed. burned out Movie Theater, or as you draw your last breath after being shot by a person yelling praise for their god in Arabic or Farsi…WHAT WILL YOU SAY?
Yes, I fully advert to my paranoia being radical, even somewhat unthinkable, but it is justifiably and sufficiently credible to be taken seriously. I will trust my fellow American’s brain before I will bet that Al-Qaeda has no plans to take deadly advantage of our current American self-weakening path. I will be a “dinosaur”, a “Neanderthal”, a crazed “Right-Winger”, a “paranoid conspiracist” before I will see any of my Countrymen dead and buried because we became too self-absorbed, fearful of our own and weak in spirit to realistically anticipate and defend against the enemies we know, as opposed to the enemies we imagine.
It’s a generational attitude.
A carry bill which would have permitted CCW on College campuses in my state got shut down in the legislature. The rub is that students from the largest collees testified AGAINST the bill!
It’s because they’ve been raised all their lives to turn to “experts” to solve their problems. Don’t change a flat tire, call the experts. Don’t eat something unless someone from Harvard says its healthy. Don’t buy a gun or carry it , because only the experts with uniforms and badges are qualified to properly exercise lethal force.
It would be hilarious , if so many my age and younger didnt buy into this bankrupt philosophy.
Here’s a problem:
When did an 18-30 year old become a child? A lot of cops and soldiers are 18-30 year olds. A lot of EMTs and firefighters are 18-30 year olds. If you don’t go to college and you are 18-30 working a job and starting a family, you are an adult. Problem is that people don’t recognize what college is supposed to be, a more-than-full-time intensive professional development job for adults. Children shouldn’t be in college, just like children shouldn’t be on the shop floor or on the assembly line.
This is exactly the problem.
Right up to this very moment, every military in the world would love to get it’s hands on you at 14-15. You’ll be a well-trained machine by the the time you’re 17, instead of a recruit.
Less than a millenia ago, people took over the world in their late teens/early twenties.
Millenia ago lifespans were also MUCH shorter.
Back in Alexander the Great’s time ,being in your 30s equaled Senior Citizen status. Not that I disagree with your point, but we must remember the context of our facts.
You’re completely accurate. They didn’t live long, and 30-50 was the wizened “old man” indeed.
I just take it that most folks here know that, and as such, I intended the context to amplify the point.
“…the kind of barely-not-a-child-anymore-student, who would want to carry a gun on campus, legally or otherwise.”
Well, here’s the rub. This is the “fresh out of high school” excuse to disallow campus carry. The problem is, if you’re talking about them carrying legally, in virtually every state that allows concealed carry you have to be 21 to get a permit, which eliminates the “fresh out of high school” group simply based on age. If you’re talking about them carrying “otherwise,” then you have to understand that neither their age nor your “no guns allowed” signs are going to factor in. “Otherwise” is already against the law.
Florida gun laws are generally well-written and sensible with only a couple exceptions: our airport rules and campus carry. The ban on campus carry irks the hell out of me because I feel that as someone who is rapidly approaching their twentieth high school reunion, it’s stupid that I should have to (in theory, anyway) disarm myself because I decide to take a class or two for personal or professional betterment. That doesn’t mean that I approve the ban on people carrying even if they’re only 21. I think the ban is stupid at 21, and it only gets stupider the further you get from the “fresh out of high school” argument.
Yeah, some will possibly come unhinged & need to be “counseled”. He’s imagining only 1 armed student./// The mind of a 21 year old policeman/god is much more stable though?/// Its just the same old sh.t different day, Randy
“When you can’t tell your friends from your enemies, it’s time to go.” – M, Quantum of Solace
Agree with Mr. Kreuter. I am a gun owner and also work at a University. Sure many young adult students are mature people but many are not. Many are impetuous, sometimes mental illness shows up unannounced in this age group. The military observes and TRAINS it’s young adults with weapons- that’s a different story. This issue is never black and white- yes, self defense is important but gun ownership in that context often leads to tragedy. If you don’t take care of your gun in YOUR home it’ s YOUR kid who dies. If you don’t take care of your gun in the classroom it could be MY kid who dies. Not OK. Let’s all stop the fanaticism and talk sense among millions of Americans with different takes on a complicated issue.
So the same 21 year old, who you say may or may not be mature, but who can legally carry a concealed weapon virtually anywhere in the state of Florida, somehow becomes dangerous simply by crossing the property line onto a college campus? How does that logic even work? If that 21 year old can’t be trusted on campus with his concealed weapon, why would you trust him with it anywhere? But let’s take age out of it. Why do you not trust me, at 36 years old, with my concealed weapon simply because I crossed that property line? And if you would trust me, why me and not the 21 year old? It’s nonsensical. The legislature has seen fit to determine that 21 years old is old enough for the responsibility of carrying a concealed weapon. That level of responsibility does not somehow become greater because of what building someone is standing in.
If you haven’t already, you should read the full piece that this quote came from. It’s not pretty. Then read the comments. There are only 16 so far. They come from both ends of the spectrum, from the “Retired Dean” who suggests that if guns are allowed in the classroom, Mr. Kreuter should “Sue the state for operating a hostile workplace environment,” to this one:
I understand your sentiments, and they are very humane. They resonate with me. But I don’t think they stand up to dispassionate reason or demonstrable fact, and that has to be the basis for the laws we pass.
In Nate Kreuter’s world his fear of what another person could do is sufficient cause to infringe on their rights.
I fear that Nate Kreuter will use his free speech rights to yell “Fire!” in a crowded movie theater. Is that sufficient cause to deny Nate his right to speech and force him to wear a muzzle outside of his home?
+1 for the Never Ending Story reference.
I have to wonder how this guy feels about those same barely-not-a-child-anymore-students driving on public roads. He must be truly terrified of the brain, which controls the hand that controls the car that can kill. If the thought of college students lawfully carrying on campus scares him so much, then the thought of millions of college and high school students driving unsupervised anywhere they please must give him such terrible nightmares.
Can someone please ask this pseudo-intillectual punk a question:
If the school required that you have a weapon to attend class, if the school provided you a weapon to put in your backpack while you were on campus, would YOU turn into an unreliable, immoral, unpredictable killer or mass murderer? If the answer is NO! then what makes you think that just because someone carries a legally aquired pistol, and goes through the background checks for that and a CCW, is any different from you? The danger on campus is not legal CCW students, it’s the mentally deranged that know YOU and everyone else will be unarmed.
Fear is not rational.
To leftists like Nate Kreuter, the gun is a magical amulet that makes its handler insane.
They can’t be reasoned with. Simply tell them to pull up their panties and get out of the way. If they want to be afraid, then they can stay home and hide under the covers while we go about our lives.
At what age does Nate believe people are mature enough to serve in the military and have access to fully automatic rifles and various other weapon systems with huge destructive power?
“Take a look at these hands. The hand speaks. The hand of a government man.” – Talking Heads, “Born Under Punches”
How does this guy manage to even leave the house on a daily basis?
He’s everything we’ve come to expect from years of public education. This is why 53% of recent college graduates are unemployed.
You can be born stupid, but you have to be trained to be ignorant.
It’s quite obvious because we all buckle our seatbelts because we intend to ram into the first thing we see. I mean, why else would you buckle your seatbelt unless you intend to use it at the first opportunity? We all get homeowners or property insurance because we plan to burn down our home or place of business, right?
This notion of the world turning into the wild west without more gun control is getting really old. Also, in order to get a concealed carry license in my state you must be 21 years old, so it’s not “barely-not-a-child” situation, but I’d like to hear his opinion on contract law, voting rights, and military involvement because at 18 you can do quite a bit that impacts the rest of your life and everyone else around you.
I guess this quote from his own article explains it all:
“Wiser?” he asked, disbelieving. “You’re not wiser. You’re just making bad decisions more slowly and deliberately than you used to.”
He was right. We laughed at me. I thanked him for talking me through yet another episode of my own stupidity, we said our goodbyes, and I went to bed.
By this reasoning, that barely-not-a-child-anymore student shouldn’t be licensed to drive, or allowed to vote, or be allowed to cook at his or her own stove. These are all dangerous responsibilities.
They also are not enumerated as rights in the constitution.
Oh that darned, inconvenient constitution. Why can’t it just go away?
Posted this at Guns Save Life.com:
Nate Kreuter: A bigot speaks and removes all doubt…
Bigot:
big·ot
[big-uht]
noun
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
or
a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race
At Inside Higher Ed, they’ve published a bigoted essay by Nate Kreuter, in which he goes into detail justifying his bigotry of those who would take an active role in protecting themselves from violent attack.
One wonders if Nick feels anxiety over black persons on campus, too. Does he not fear them, but only ones that want to come into the classroom? Do they profane the sacred space of a classroom too? Does he fear them as well, and not want to be around them?
Fearing African-Americans in school classrooms is as irrational and bigoted as fearing law-abiding, responsible Americans trained in the use of personal defense tools to carry them to stop bad people from evil intents. Those “kids”, the kind of barely-not-a-child-anymore student would certainly have been old enough for at least three years to serve his nation in the military, protecting our nation and indeed may have even already served a tour in Afghanistan and done things Nate Kreuter will never know and could never do – to risk everything for the love of his nation and fellow American.
From reading his piece, I have to wonder if Nate Kreuter realizes late at night, laying in bed in the stillness of the night, that he is a lesser man than some of his students who would man-up when the going gets tough and display bravery and courage under adverse conditions.
Imagine being Nate Kreuter, suffering under the weight of knowing that potentially a female coed, with a license to carry, and the knowledge, skills and attitudes necessary to employ a simple tool to stop a malevolent attack, has more tenacity than he does.
It’s okay. Nate’s apparently a lover, not a fighter. Gun ownership isn’t for everyone. Some people go to work when danger calls, others “go” in their pants as they cower.
Nate Kreuter is in a state of denial about how the world works when it comes to evil men doing asocial endeavors. As Lt. Col. Dave Grossman says, “Denial has no survival value.”
Then this guy should be arguing for increasing the age limit and/or the certification criteria for gun possession, and not campus carry. As i understand it, there are on occasion responsible adult on campus from time to time.
He should apply the “Automobile Test” to his reasoning before opening his damn mouth.
Translation: “I’m an immature and subconsciously violent individual who can’t be trusted with a gun, so therefore I project that insecurity onto others.”
Classic projection, can be traced to pretty much every gun-grabber out there.
Classic example of psychological projection bias. What that guy is afraid of… is what HE would do if he had a gun. He assuages his own guilt by projecting his own deviant thoughts to others.
In light of the recent tragedies we must not let ourselves be labeled Pro Gun. A gun is an object a tool like a car, or a fork. And like a car or a fork it can be used very positively. What we are is Pro 2A. Don’t let the grabbers label us into a corner. We are fighting for our right not for an object. I have a LTC. I AM PRO 2A all the way.
If we could work toward reciprocity we would be making some serious strides.
Go Pro 2A!