“What happens if that person misses? Even police officers who are excellent shots miss. It sounds good, like the Lone Ranger, but that’s not real life.’’ – Police Chief Richard Crate opposing campus carry at bostonglobe.com
“What happens if that person misses? Even police officers who are excellent shots miss. It sounds good, like the Lone Ranger, but that’s not real life.’’ – Police Chief Richard Crate opposing campus carry at bostonglobe.com
He’s right; cops shouldn’t carry on campus. What if they miss?
+1
Where to begin….
How about loud noises cause bad guy to realize he’s not getting a free pass today and has to actually defend himself instead.
I grew up in Massachusetts, and moved to Virginia after I graduated from college twenty-five years ago, and while I go back to visit my family often, I don’t read much of the media from up north anymore. Wow. I had forgotten how really, really liberal it can be up there. What a great example of slipshod, name-calling journalism.
I love the smarmy line that suggests gun-toting college students would get into gunfights over dorm-room cleanliness. The poverty of this writer’s opinion of people is amazing.
I appreciate the reminder that neither side of the political spectrum is above resorting to sloppy and arrogant attacks.
“What happens if that person misses? Even police officers who are excellent shots miss. It sounds good, like the Lone Ranger, but that’s not real life.’’ – Police Chief Richard Crate opposing campus carry at bostonglobe.com
Thanks for making our point for us cheif. Based on the NYPD’s hit ratio of ** 34%** , (source here http://www.nyclu.org/files/nypd_fire…ort_102207.pdf )the last people we need shooting are those in the public establishment. Understand Im not painting all LE with the same brush, but take it from a current student in a carry friendly state,a gunfight in a college classroom is bad news for everyone involved.
Turn the lights off and it is really the worst case scenario for trading lead with someone. Lots of innocents, zero cover or concealment, one place of entry & exit , stadium seating for the best targets that a spree shooter can hit and long distances from the front of the classroom to the back.That is the last environment I would want ANYONE pulling their piece who hasn’t been to a range within the last month.
This document says that for 1990 – 2000 it was a 15% (mean) hit rate. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:pAesyFalvZAJ:www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS.pdf+nypd+17%25+hit+rate+guns&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESi0tFX3Mn73OqlI_Te7SDPs5nwYBfPwru6VnKyhaq5GbHAOfNlN2gmY7tvoSviCdic8WeulVHthqmz-F_Pg6bYaKW8fcxBUAM6b66EWkS4rHezlfT8Fo8V3jFGMwroW2hJ1IodQ&sig=AHIEtbTuJ9kd1u2_V2VeSekym9yubgYLjw&pli=1
Your document does say that only 10% of NYPD firearm discharges were for gunfights, 21% were “accidental” discharges. For gunfights they had a 30% hit rate, for “accidental” discharges, they had a 25% hit rate. Funny how when a cop does it, it is an accident, if a citizen does it, its negligent.
You mean some cops aren’t smart?
I’m so disappointed.
What happens if the CCW holder misses? More importantly, what happens if the active shooter who is trying to hit people doesn’t miss…
Quote from teh Article:
“’What happens if that person misses?’ asks Enfield Police Chief Richard Crate, a member of the New Hampshire Chiefs of Police Association, which opposes the legislation. ‘Even police officers who are excellent shots miss. It sounds good, like the Lone Ranger, but that’s not real life.'”
I guess the worse case scenario is that is a defensive shooter misses, some innocent bystander may get killed. But in a Virginia Tech style shooting scenario, innocent bystanders are purposefully getting killed by the perp, and therefore it seems that going something, even if unsuccessful, is better than doing nothing.
I love how this so-called journalist can’t even hide her distain for the right: She says that “lots of legislators there are loopy – especially since the Tea Party takeover of 2010.” Well, hopefully, there will be lots more “loopy” legislators in officer come 2012, as well as a new President.
What I don’t get is why people think that allowing guns on campus is a recipe for disaster.
What makes a college campus so sacred? They make it sound as if every student is going to start carrying a gun. The laws allow us to carry outside of campus, yet not everyone does it. So what makes them think every college student is going to start carrying a gun and irresponsibly shooting at others. The laws that enforce responsible gun ownership would still come into play…even on a college campus.
What makes a college campus so sacred?
Think of university campuses as game preserves for socialists.
They probably figure that once firearms are legal on-campus, the next step will be issuing hunting permits to keep the population at sustainable levels.
😉
It’s a combination of projection and insecurity. Weak-minded people have been brainwashed to think guns in themselves are evil and they enjoy the fact that they don’t have to start holding people responsible for their own actions. Also, these weak-minded people fear what they themselves would do if they had a gun, so they think everyone is as pathetic as they are.
The tenured professors are making their anti gun arguments to a captive audience. That becomes uncomfortable when any number of the students are holding tools. They might not agree and think the Prof is full of beans.
It is pure fabrication to assume that many LEO’s are excellent shots, if what you mean is “excellent shots while both they and the perp are moving.” Few LEO’s these days are really ‘gun guys.’ I can hardly blame cops for becoming a bit complacent when I’ve seen physicians, attorneys, and even judges fall into the same trap. As for on-campus carry, there is a certainly a conundrum: First, we can agree that a plane load of adults couldn’t muster the guts to jump a few guys with box-cutters (9/11), so fists against the gunner won’t happen. Second, what matters is the probability of more or fewer total student deaths with carry versus without. In other words, 2 friendly-fire cases of wounding sounds awful, unless it also meant 9 fewer murders by the VA Tech-type madman. And if the NH police come into the campus instead? How many FF are they going to cause? And how long will the delay be? Will an extra 9 student murders have occured during the delay?
“Yep, just leave all that to us and, when the time comes, we’ll find whoever robbed, stabbed, raped or killed you and hand him over to the legal system for processing ’cause guns is for cops and self-defence’s got nuthin’ to do with it.”
Hi ho.
Yeah, maybe us Cops will get around to investigating in a couple of days and maybe arrest someone in about a week or so. Meanwhile, you have reserved space on a mortuary slab and will be pushing up daisies in a week or so..
Don’t forget the wonderful parole system that releases criminals because they cost too much to house, er I mean because they are rehabilitated.
What an utterly insane question.
“This madman is shooting up your classroom with an Uzi, and you pull a gun…but what if you miss?!”
How do these people muster the brain cells to form coherent words?
Usually they don’t. They have ‘spokespeople.’ Yep, you pay for them as well.
Even if an extremely bad shot ended up wounding multiple other students, but managed to hit the active shooter, lives would be saved.
Yeah, the active bad guy shooter is out to kill everyone. At least if a CCW opened up and maybe some of the shots were not so great, there would be a much better chance of at least some or most of the people surviving
Given the climate these days, don’t surprise if you’re sued by the people you injured while saving their lives.
Of course.
police officers who are excellent shots
Mwaahahahahahahahahahaha! That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard since that schmuck said, “I’m the only one in the room” just before he shot himself in the nads!
Stop, Chief
KrupkeCrate. I’m laughing so hard I can hardly breathe!Also – and with all due respect to all LEO – what is it about small-town police chiefs and their insignia? This guy leads the police department for a town of fewer than 5,000 people and he has a full general’s insignia on his collar (four stars). George Patton, watch out. Here in Richmond, we have a chief of police who leads a force that protects over 200,000 citizens, and whose officers deal with more crap in a week than the Enfield force encounters in a year, and he proudly wears a colonel-equivalent eagle on his collar.
Because they view themselves as para-military groups, and conduct themselves accordingly.
Here I thought it was some sort of SS insignia.
The way the author (Boston Globe) has depicted campus life–rampant drug abuse, violence flaring over untidy roommates, herds of students suffering tremendous emotional instability from loss of girlfriends, etc., maybe all college campuses should be closed immediately. If not, she’s making an excellent case for the need to carry on campus.
The left, once again, is discussing a non-issue.
“Permitting Campus Carry will cause Gunfights over alcohol and dorm rooms!”
-Wrong.For one, most states require that an applicant be over 21 before being even eligible for a CCW permit. That eliminates 90% of the impulsive crowd who would do immature things with a firearm.
In my state, someone under 18 cannot legally buy a handgun in the first place anyhow.
“Students would shoot each other over roomates and girlfriends!”.
Again a majority of college students cannot get a CCW anyway by dint of age!The youngin’s who would use a firearm to kill someone over a glass of beer or a woman’s company don’t care about permits or legalities.Ironic, as adults do the same thing outside of college too. Go figure.
A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry a firearm, concealed or open, anywhere and everywhere that an agent of the government can carry a firearm.
I was sitting in class last week, bored because the first day of class is always the same stuff, running through possible active shooter scenarios.
I never sit near the door, because I figure they’re the first targets. Sitting near the middle back is my best bet. If someone came in a door with a gun and everyone started running, things would be crazy. It’d be easier for me to take a shot if everyone got down.
The scariest part? Legally I’m allowed to carry on campus, but if I did and the school found out, I’d be expelled immediately. And if we hear gunshots down the hall, most of those doors don’t lock, and we are all pigs in a pen waiting to be slaughtered.
One person or a small team with ARs could kill hundreds in minutes. No one in that building could stop them. There isn’t even one officer per building.
Ugh. Glad I’m graduating shortly.
I carry a bright flashlight and a small knife in hopes that I can either sneak away or disorient an attacker. That’s the only choice I’m left with.
Don’t be silly, Sam. All you have to do is remind the shooter that guns aren’t allowed on campus and he will leave immediately.