“The only thing that can get through Congress is what I just described. I have 45 people who will follow me absolutely in the U.S. Senate on what I say on this issue.” – Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn in Sen. Coburn Drafts His Own Gun Bill [via wsj.com]
Once again –> “Democratic Sens. Joe Manchin of West Virginia ” is doing things to take our guns after flip flopping several times. I hope that the people of W. VA will eventually show him the door.
They didn’t before with Byrd and Rockefeller and I don’t see why they will this time.
Because Byrd and Rockefeller had enough political savvy to know you not touch the third-rail of WV politics—-the 2nd amendment.
Both voted for the last Assault Weapons ban.
Hmm, let us see.
1. Most of the mass shooters passed back ground checks when they bought their guns or stole them.
2. Canada had universal back ground checks and registration and dropped it after 20 years as a massive waste of money because it didn’t stop bad guys from getting guns or catching them when a gun was found after a crime.
3.Chicago has a a complete gun ban and a state issued gun owners card to even buy and own a gun and yetthey have the highest murder rate by gun in the world.
So the solution to mass murder and crime committed by gun? It’s obvious, pass universal back ground checks!
Supposedly 91% of Americans support UBC; I keep trying not to say derogatory things about people, mostly I just say what I think is true, like gun grabbers are in denial and delusional, but for gun owners to support this as well is beyond denial and delusion or ignorance, these people are insane.
What seems to be lost in this % is the way the pollsters ask the questions. At face value a question along the lines of: “do you support background checks on gun purchases to keep criminals from obtaining guns?” is going to get a different answer then if you drop the last part of the question. In addition the reasons why universal checks are flawed and dangerous are not so easy to understand if you don’t take the time to understand the consequences of these measures. Just because we read about the intricacies of gun grabber legislation doesn’t mean the majority of gun owners do.
It’s unlikely that no background checks bill will pass this year. In fact, if it doesn’t pass, it could be a problem for the pro-gun side in the 2014 elections. But there are two things one could do. One is to make sure it’s a bill one can live with. That’s what Coburn is talking about. What one doesn’t hear is trying to take the same approach Gottlieb took in Washington – you want a background check bill, fine, but what are you giving us in return? The top of my “wish list” would be national carry for any concessions made, but if that’s too much, maybe there are lesser benefits that can be pursued. Maybe it’s being done on the quiet, but it is certainly not obvious.
I can’t “live with” ANY OF IT! I WILL NOT “live with” ANY OF IT!!
ENOUGH of this “live with” CRAP!!! IT AIN’T LIVIN’.
Say it another way: “DIE WITH”, and just about everyone here gets it.
Wrong. It has already been reported that Schumer doesn’t have the votes. Even the ALCU opposes the bill on 4th and 5th Amendment grounds. Opposing any kind of gun control doesn’t hurt Republicans. Any voter who make their decicion based on supporting gun control isn’t voting Republican in the first place.
I’d be happy to “live with” universal BG checks as long as we got something meaningful in return:
Requirement to store 4473’s for 10+ years becomes Requirement to destroy after 1 year. Requirement for the BATFE to destroy all 4473’s on file, and stronger prohibitions on creating a gun-owner database, with statutory Jail time for any government official involved in doing so.
See my post below. Universal background checks can be designed to retain very little information. However, as law breakers learns the new rules they will develop new ways to beat the system. The only advantage of a private seller doing background check is due diligence. If you mistakenly sold a gun to a prohibited person and it comes back to you then you can point to the record that says the system approved him.
Technically, we (Canada) still have universal background checks, just no long gun registry (handguns and a few others are still registered) and not how you think. Under the guise of “Continuous Eligibility” and “Public Safety,” all firearms license holders have their names run daily against the police database to see if we’ve been involved in a criminal incident.
If a license holder in Canada is selling a non-restricted long gun to another license holder, can it be done without conducting the transaction at a gun store or reporting it directly to a government agency?
Yes to both. The seller merely needs to be satisfied that the person is in fact licensed. Typically that’s just seeing the card. We could call in to verify the license is valid, but that’s up to the individual comfort levels. The jury is still out on Quebec because of political shenanigans. For the rest of Canada, at this point the government doesn’t know ‘directly’, to use your word, what non restricted guns the license holders have, just that they have a license.
For the sake of readers that are newer to the site may I say please go easy on the acronyms?
Pfft. Everybody knows about the Underwire Bra Conventions and Hardly Making Concise Nicknames Ifit’sthisdamnlong,isit? Committee.
Swarf,
I just found out that Winchester only manufactured about 1,025 guns of my model 94 Trails End in 357. 🙂
Price just went back up, AlphaGeek.
Seriously, that’s very cool.
I took my 1894c out to the rifle section of my local range for the first time last weekend and hit the 200 yard gong on my first shot.
Wasn’t able to hit it reliably after that, but my point was made and fortunately no one was watching after that first shot, so as far as they know, I’m good not lucky.
For the sake of the veterans, too. I have no idea what that stands for.
If there was a system in place for private citizens to plug in a buyer’s social security number and get a green light or red light for the ability to purchase a weapon, would you use it? If the seller didn’t need to enter in their own social security number or the type or number of guns.
Drew, the seller has no right to have the buyers SS#, and when I purchase a firearm through a FFL, I never use my SS# any more. And I always pass!
A system where the buyer can download a two part form from the feds, calls an 800# and gets his approval # and puts it on both parts of the form. He then hands over the sellers part of the form along with showing proof the buyers is the same as the name on the form…..good to go!
What a great idea! This is ESPECIALLY effective in a country like ours, where there are no stolen social security numbers…
COBWEBS, much?
Don’t know if anybody read the article on Senator Coburn, but the first response was a good one.
Whatever gun bill you come up with, please contact H. Ross Perot and ask him to help you make up some charts that show how, if your bill becomes law:
1.) the nut jobs will stop mass murders,
2.) the inner city gang thugs will stop shooting each other,
3.) criminals will stop using guns to rob and murder innocent people and each other and
4.) the right of citizens of the United States to keep and bear arms will not be infringed.
If you can show how these 4 objectives will be accomplished, you have a winner and America will forever be in your debt.
If on the other hand, your bill is just an attempt make it harder for law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms, and make life more difficult for legal manufacturers and sellers of firearms and munitions, please do something else with your time.
Like stick your heads in the toilet. MUCH better use of everybody’s time!
This is a political move. Coburn knows his version of a background check bill (no record keeping0 will never pass with Dems, but he wants the Republicans on record as supporting “something.” You know that “something” that everyone seems to think we need to do? Even if it won’t help the situation one whit?
It would be of great benefit to the cause if the democrats were forced to vote on record for a gun control bill. The scary thing is you can’t count on the republicans enough to be sure nothing will pass. Course if any of them vote for any gun control, they will be gone at the next election.
If he threw in that FFL’s must destroy all 4473’s within three days of a purchase being completed then I think I could get behind this.
I’m not positively sure how the NICS system works right now, but I think i have an idea. Correct me if I’m wrong. The buyer fills out his forms and then the FFL makes a call to the NICS. The FFL then tells the person on the other end the applicable information, which is then entered into the computer on the NICS side that runs the information against a known database of individuals that are prohibited from owning a firearm.
Is there a reason why a simple NICS website cannot be created and opened up to prospective private party transactions? You’d enter the information you would typically put onto a transfer form at an FFL into simple fields on the website (sans firearm serial number) and then submit the info to be checked against the same database that the NICS uses right now. You get a pass or a deny instantaneously and all is well.
I wouldn’t make this mandatory if it were up to me. I would find this useful however, if I were to sell a gun to an individual I have no familiarity with. If I’m going to transfer a gun to my child, I sure as hell wouldn’t feel the need to run a background check on him. If I’m selling to a person on Armslist, that I’ve never met before and doesn’t have a CPL, I may want to cover my ass and run a background check on him without having to involve a third party FFL for a fee.
Thoughts?
I agree completely.
One of the hard parts with any background check is the reliability of your identity. Getting a ‘valid’ photo ID in someone else’s name is just a matter of time & money. It’s harder initially, but certainly not impossible to spoof.
Reminds me of the joke about how I realized I’m lazy. Serial killers manage to find victims that fit their profile, kidnap & murder them, hide the body, maintain a perfect 2.5kids & a picket fence life while being a pillar of the community for 20 years. I’m happy to mow the lawn on a regular basis.
They find victims that fit their profile because, to a serial killer, those victims stand out as if they had a flashing red goal light on their head. It requires little to no effort to find them.
Says the serial killer… 😉
Looks like Gun COntrol is DOA in the Senate Tom Colburn will have no record keeping in the bill Schumer demands it. So no bill will be passing any time this year.
Not that I support background checks for private sales you could make the case that it would make it harder for prohibited persons to get guns. The reason that current system doesn’t catch anybody is that criminals don’t buy guns from FFLs. They know all about background checks. However, they also know that private sales don’t get checked so they can do business that way. My guess that even if they just allowed private sellers have access to system you would initially see a lot more rejections. Once the bad guys figured the new regime you would see a big falloff in rejections. There would just be an increase in straw purchases.
“Mr. Manchin started talks this week with Sen. Pat Toomey (R., Pa.), according to an aide familiar with the negotiations.”
Please call or email Senator Toomey’s office and tell him not to sell us or the Second Amendment out.