“Violence is not a simple, self-contained phenomenon with a straightforward set of causes, and thus a common package of remedies . . . If violence is to be countered or controlled, it is in a personal and social (and international) order, in which there is always some commitment to mutual recognition and attention, so that the markers of identity and value do not become weapons of revenge. . . We are a long way from anything that much resembles this; and the journey towards it is indeed not an irreversible and self-evident progression.” – Rowan Williams, Violence is an unavoidable part of being human [via newstatesman.com] [h/t DT]
That is EXACTLY it! WOW! I’ll quote that a thousand times!
Late to the party
Our brains are no more chemically advanced than they were 5000 years ago. We still rely on the same behaviors, feed, fornicate, fight and flight. We just don’t like to run.
yep just more stuff in our brains now, for many that is bad. we have better tools, but the same urges. A lot more drama that leads to to many meds that leads to more nut jobs.
More need for self defense
“The ancient Greeks and Romans believed that human nature never changes… one of the real dangers we face is that we poor all our knowlege and technology into the same frail human shells.” – Prof. J. Rufus Fears
This was the common belief unto Rousseau and then later Marx came up with this whole idea that somehow society can make people smarter. Historically speaking, that flawed idealogy heavily contributed to two world wars.
If anything, humanity is getting stupider, but, for most people, our very nature keeps us from entertaining that possibity.
The point of my original statement is, violence is a response to the human behaviors of self preservation. Feed, fornicate, fight or flight. Violence is a possible response to all of those behaviors. Our environment has changed but those behaviors remain.
again, still
Late to the party
I fully agree. These behaviors are genetically encoded into our ancient midbrain, and without them we would have failed as a species millennia ago. Social science ignores these survival imperatives, contending that they may be controlled through behavior modification schemes. They are wrong–the biology does not care what the upper brain thinks.
What him say ?
Dogs are usually less violent than humans.
Only because dogs are domesticated by us.
a wild pack would hunt for every meal, fight with other packs for territory; fight among itself for dominance.
Wolves are less violent than ISIS.
No, animals other-than-man are violent in a more constant state, that’s why generally they suffer from that op tempo with a shorter maturation and lifespan.
Humans, too, are often shocked when they encounter (or are forced to respond with) violence. You don’t find animal response to “shock” paired to shock that that they were supprised that the shocking incident included violence, and their response is a more direct split of fight or flight.
Personally I believe that no matter what, we must always be vigilant. Good decent people win every day whether it’s keeping your wallet or defending your rights, evil only has to win once. Also I think many people don’t understand that evil always claims a prize, if you are ever in a fight for your life and “win” and your attacker goes to the morgue, you will face the aftermath, even if drive by journalists don’t turn you into the poster boy for” gun violence” mentally you will never just pick up the pieces and resume your life.
[quote] mentally you will never just pick up the pieces and resume your life. [/quote]
Serious over generalization, and no more valid than any other. Different people will respond in different ways, and different situations will produce different results in the same people.
I did not regret shooting the man who tried to kill me. I gained confidence and understood myself much better afterwards, and I went on to build a much more positive life than I might have otherwise… assuming I survived at all, of course.
The man who attacked me made the choice to do so. His actions were not my responsibility, nor was the outcome. HE chose to continue the attack with a loaded gun pointed at his face… Why should I be broken up by it?
You might become a mental basket case after shooting someone in self defense, but you can’t put that burden on everyone else.
Good show Mama L.
There is too much sympathy for the thugs, and degenerates of the world. I wood never make a good cop. I would be tempted to shoot those who would destroy a decent our way of life!
If we are going to rid ourselves of this menace, we must stand up to the threat!
So you disagree with my opinion, then describe how deeply you were affected. I didn’t intend to imply that everyone who survives a violent encounter will collapse mentally, but I can’t imagine being unaffected by the event.I’m not always as clear as I would wish.
Violence is neutral, like gravity. It can be used for good or evil.
That is where it becomes a problem. You can prevail over bad with non-violence. I would hope that anyone defending themselves would utilize violence as a last resort. Violence leans closer to bad.
Bullshit.
That was a well thought out response.
It was concise and precise.
That doesn’t make it valid.
The part he was calling B.S. on was the last sentence that “violence leans closer to bad.” This of course contradicts your opening premise that violence is neutral and may be used for good or evil.
I was arguing against neutrality
Tell that to the dead and still missing civil rights workers families from the 1950s and 1960s. If more people had followed the example of the black Christian deacons for defense and justice, I would say more people would be still alive, instead of murdered, raped and buried in an unmarked grave.
That doesn’t validate violence being a neutral action. That would mean that the only way to overcome violence, it to match it with equal or greater violence.
Meeting violence with equal or greater violence. When you understand that you will stop being a sheep struggling to stay in the middle of the flock so that you are not one of those on the edges being harvested by the wolves.
And what other methods more effectively protect sheep? A protective sheepdog willing and able to meet the violence of the wolves with greater violence of his own, or a shepherd with a rifle.
You can live by hiding in a hole or running away, but eventually someone/something will dig you out or run a little faster. Deal with it.
Clearly you have not encountered “bad”. Evil people by their very nature have absolutely no regard whatsoever for other human beings. An evil person sees another human being as no different than a pretty rock on the ground. If they want it, they take it without any remorse. The only way to stop evil people and “prevail” is to forcibly stop them — in other words use violent force.
Of course violence is a last resort. Nevertheless, righteous violence is anything but bad. Rather, failing to use violence to protect yourself and your family is a dereliction of your duty to safeguard yourself and your family. You would never stand by idly and let a swarm of hornets approach and envelop a family member and sting them a hundred times if you had a fire hose or flame thrower in hand, would you? Then why would you let a violent human predator approach and envelop a family member and inflict the same grievous wounds as a swarm of hornets?
Good post!
Yes, violence is not always the answer, but many times it is the “only” answer!
Ummm, Jacob. You say “violence” as if it ‘s a bad thing. If you want peace prepare for war. Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.
When I was delivering pizza, I fought a guy that tried to mug me by faking having a gun in the pocket of his hoody, we fought, I won, barely.
Afterward, along with a Concealed pistol, I carried a four D-cell mag light while delivering pizza. Over a years time, everyone of our 12 drivers were mugged, some twice, except me.
I would see a human predator target me as potential prey, he would start towards me with the hunting movements of a cat or a wolf stalking thier prey. I would then face them, in a fighting stance, mag light in one hand and my hand under my shirt ready to draw my pistol in the other. Guess what?
Every single time, those predators suddenly remembered some place else they needed to be.
For those that use the language and actions of being peaceful, harmonious and non-coercive with me, I am the same. For those that choose to use the language of violence to take what they wish from me, I use the same language and sctions that they understand.
To believe that using a language that predators don’t understand to solve a difference of opinion is delusional at best, irrational at worst.
So in 17 years of carrying a weapon. seven of those OC, I have had to draw the pistol once to stop 4 pit bulls attacking my Dog and I, without firing a shot. And stopped a gang banger from kidnapping and killing his girl friend. Without even needing to draw a weapon.
So by being prepared for the use of lethal force without hesitation, I have not needed to do so. This the norm for most people, at least here in the west where our traditional culture accepts this as the norm.
Thomas, you just proved my point. You prevented violence, for good, without replicating violence.
You’ve got that exactly backwards, Jacob. He didn’t have to use violence in those cases because he demonstrated that he COULD, clearly and early enough, so the aggressor chose not to continue with his attack. Even with the dogs. They are acutely aware when people are fearful and helpless, or when they are prepared to fight.
Most predators – especially the human sort – prefer weak, helpless victims and don’t want to be hurt themselves. The presence of someone who CAN hurt them quite often makes them run away.
You
Exactly. He had the ability to respond with violence. In turn, the ability, prevented violence, without the use of violence.
“You can prevail over bad with non-violence. I would hope that anyone defending themselves would utilize violence as a last resort. Violence leans closer to bad.”
Sorry Jacob. You’re attributing the end result, no violence, to being non-violent. This is a dangerous idea to take away from my story. A predator targeted me at the beginning specifically because I was in an oblivious, “non-violent” space. I was in what is called Code White. Not even thinking about nor prepared for the possibility of being attacked. I was vulnerable, unprepared for the predators initial stalk.
It was after I accepted that this way of thinking was actually what attracted the predator to me that I changed.
So by being prepared, trained, willing and by having an effective self-defense tool like a pistol, I created a space that was to dangerous for a predator to risk a direct attack, by my being willing to be “violent”.
The end result? I have walked in a “non-violent” space for the last seventeen years, by being willing to be violent.
Does this lead to me being closer to being “bad”? Like they say. “power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely”. If we look at the government, the police: we can see how this kind of power, based on being enforced by “guns” and the courts, we can see how this corruption can be and is a reality.
But do I have that kind of power? Can I with pretty much impunity invade the wrong house, shoot a person holding a hair dryer, burn a baby with a flash bang or shoot a dog running away, and have the power of the state, the courts and the police backing my actions? Of course not. If the shooting was at all out of line, I, as simply one of “the masses”: would face the full fury of those same entities.
So in the back of my mind, as well as most law abiding weapon carrying Americans, is this reality.
Dude, take the tin foil off of your head. “Evil people”, are more apt to use violence as an immediate response than “Good people”. You stepped into situations, where violence could have resolved the situation, but used discretion, and a non-violent resolution. Not saying violence is not an answer. I have spent my entire adult life learning how to use violence to stop violence. That doesn’t mean you go into every situation guns blazing.
Thomas, remove the tin foil from your head. “Evil people” are more apt to use violence as an immediate response than “good people”. Not saying that violence is not necessary to combat violence in certain situations. Not saying that using justified violence makes you evil. The point is, you neutalized violent situations with out violence.
Hmmm, interesting Jacob, ” Get the tinfoil off my head”. A little densive are we?
Tell you the truth, you seem to becoming somewhat incoherent. You seem to be trying to defend your position when you really don’t really know what your talking about. It seems to be more from a place of intellectual theory than practical experience.
Have ever had to defend yourself from a predator, whether animal or human? Have you ever fought hand to hand with a human predator intent on killing you? Have you ever been faced with drawing a weapon and being faced with the choice of killing another living being with one squeeze of the trigger?
I get the feeling you have never been faced with the reality of your own mortality at the hands or fangs of another living being.
It changes you, it has changed me, and how I see the world. It changes how I approach the world in how I deal with those forces of chaos that causes injuries or death to human beings.
Any way, this is how I approach the reality of this world, if you want peace, prepare for immediate and lethal violence.
Maybe my experiences are a bit more relevant. I mean, I never delivered pizzas, but have had some interesting violent exchanges.
So Jacob. I’m curious, your “violent exchanges” were more “relevant” in what way?
i got lucky with a deep voice, i have been in enough moments to be able us body language to avoid a fight. then you add in bulk and showing no fear does work with many. butttttt not people intent on real harm or have real need to steal or hurt you.
from having old “friends” getting us in fights, to an idiot pulling a 44mag to scare me because his girlfriend winked at me. (pistol wiped him, dismantled his gun, and hog tied him with his own shirt) passive approach would have landed me in the hospital, dead, or someone else hurt/dead.
Violence works, passivity does not. you always try to defuse first, but be ready to kick ass. i have seen many, and i do mean many Passive responses invite serious aggression later. they view you as weak and an easy target. just like our BOY King is doing now, he is a classic example of a wimp inviting a fight/war. every ruler in history that did not have a strong military stance was conquered or removed from power. it’s no difference at any level of life, the weak are conquered the strong survive.
if you have anything of value, you must be ready to protect it. the police only find out who did a crime and file out paperwork. 99% of the time, they can not and many will not protect you.
This, so much this.
Violence is a tool, it isn’t inherently good or bad
One cannot argue with those eyebrows.
The guy in the picture needs to trim his eye brows. He looks ridiculous with those things sticking up. Just an observation. Hard to take him seriously with those eyebrows…..;-) ! I do agree with the overall theme of the article though.
Err, he is the Archbishop of Canterbury. He carries a lot of weight in certain circles
That’s a lot of words to say evil exists in mankind, always has, always will.
Word.
15 words.
Violence control is a matter of the the human heart, mind and value systems. Violence can certainly achieve good, however, when used by good men of good intent against evil men of evil intent.
Violence falls under all 4 human behaviors each can be achieved with violence. It has nothing to do with values, upbringing, background. Every human is capable of violence.
We wuz all just peaceful hippies til that dark day when gun powder was invented. Rainbows of skittles being farted from the unicorns ass’s.
When the first gun was invented we took turns with it and hunted the unicorns to extinction. Proving that guns and hunters are evil.
But it’s safer and easier to walk now that they’re not piles of skittles laying all over the place. Damn things are like ball bearings.
Rubbish. Everyone knows there was no such thing as ‘violence’ before guns were invented. Get rid of guns and everyone will sit around the campfire singing ‘Kumbaya’.
“Violence is an unavoidable part of being human”
Ridiculous. Look around you at every living thing, plants included. Violence is a part of being alive on this planet and it is rare that any creature has not developed some mechanism to either deal out violence or protect itself from violence in order to maximize its life-span.
Predators are everywhere and they are not just humans nor do they just prey on humans.
Violence isn’t just part of human life, it’s part of all animal life. Those peaceful bees are armed with stingers for a reason. The bear has teeth and claws for a reason. Birds kill, and if they don’t, they die. Ants make war. Lions kill for territory and females. Anyone who contends that violence is particularly human needs an enema.
Actually they may need to remove said enema. Aka their head.
I practice gun control every day of my life, I use both hands on my pistol keep it well in control 24/7! Lmao gun control people are all phony, they claim to care about all these people that they’ve never met before, but at the same time literally thousands of people die every day in this country because of faulty malpractice in medical practices and bad Dr they don’t give a s*** about those people. my question to all the gun control people is how can you care about one class of deaths of people and not people in general?the answer is they don’t they don’t support people they support their individual ideas to ban Firearms in general and the people who use them into criminals legally. it’s freaking disgusting!
Over 25% of murders in Federal prison are classified as psychopaths using standardized testing. Then there are those committing crimes while on drugs or are too mentally disturbed to respond to non-lethal methods. Sometimes a lethal response is the only practical one.
Even the Dali Lama agrees: “It is often necessary to take a strong stand to counter unjust aggression.” http://www.dalailama.com/messages/world-peace/the-reality-of-war
Psychopath findings: http://www.livescience.com/16585-psychopaths-speech-language.html?li_source=LI&li_medium=most-popular&li_campaign=related-test
The fact that the presence of a weapon was not a deterrent.
Preach it, Archbishop!!
I’ve said this here before but think it bears repeating. I’ve observed that the human race – from my perspective – our society has become numbed to the death of others of any number while simultaneously being unable to accept it from a personal perspective. To a lesser but just as important degree that’s the way humans react to threats – if it ain’t happening in my little world, I don’t have to worry about it too much. Developed from laziness into sheep-like acceptance of the erosion of our rights. That’s why extremism is the new moderate these days. We aren’t doing enough screaming people! BE the squeaky wheel!
It could be argued that the mentality of ovine obedience has been inculcated into us from an early age, via education, church and synagogue sermons, and the stern urgings of our lords and masters in various forms of local and national government (by contrast, imams exhort all Muslims to behead infidels).
These preachings may exercise the lungs of those hopeful souls expecting compliance from their flocks, but they are seeds on stony ground for the most part. No matter what our leaders say, we are individuals with memories of past events, and have learned more of our natures than they assume. We have seen the bitter face of evil, and know that we alone are responsible for its demise. When you need help in seconds, the Police are only minutes away. None of us particularly enjoy the exercise of violent efforts, but we are prepared to utilise it in defense of our lives and those we love.
It has been argued that human nature does not change, but a quick glance at rap videos and Hollywood entertainment shows an advanced stage of degradation. It literally cannot get much worse. When men and women study evil all the time, they generally excel at their studies. We can avoid bad people and bad situations some but not all of the time, and occasionally the need to be violent in turn will arise. This is our human condition. A deliberate choice to go unarmed into the world may salve the conscience of someone with limited imagination, but as Baden Powell said: “Be Prepared”. A stitch in time, so to speak.
I wonder if any of the gun control advocates are willing to accompany throughout your day to ensure your protection, or even to forgo the armed guards they hire for their own protection? Interesting that they are funded by billionaires who do NOT have your interests at heart, and could care less when you lie beeding on the street. They now run the economy – don’t let them ruin your life.
Gun Control Quotes from BrainyQuote, an extensive collection of quotations by famous authors, celebrities, and newsmakers. Do countries with strong gun control laws have lower murder rates?