“This is a terrible tragedy and there’s no doubt that the situation would’ve been even more tragic but for some extraordinary acts of heroism. Every day our police officers put their lives on the line to protect us, they did so again today….” – Michael Bloomberg. The gunman had 8 rounds, at least FIVE of which were used to kill his intended victim. There were 10 people hit. You do the math.
You’ve got to be fvcking kidding me. When a couple of folks mow down nine innocent bystanders, that’s a mass shooting. When the shooters have badges, though, it’s heroism. BRB, going to pound my head against a brick wall…
According to the NYC top cop, the officers didn’t actually hurt anybody, not directly anyway. From CNN’s article: “Kelly had said the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers’ struck “flowerpots and other objects around, so … their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that’s what caused the wounds.” Interesting. Let’s wait and see, but something tells me that the people were hurt by more than exploding flowerpots.
“He purchased the weapon legally in 1991 in Florida, but did not have a permit to carry it in New York City.”
“We call upon Florida to strengthen their gun laws and do better background checks, so that guns sold there don’t end up killing people here eleven years later.”
@Matt in FL,
I take your point, but the teacher in me needs to correct your math to 21 years–which actually heightens the absurdity you are illustrating!
Boy, do I feel silly.
Please don’t; I’d want you to square me away, too.
so, we don’t need gun control. we need to control people just moving all willy nilly about the country.
“In addition, he did not have a permit to shoot people in New York City. Fortunately, the heroic police officers who shot NINE innocent bystanders DID have permits to shoot people in New York City. This kind of tragedy could be prevented if only we could ban legal gun sales everywhere in America – that way, only the trained police officers (and the drug gangs and other criminals) would have guns, and everyone would be much safer.”
-MikeBloomie
I’ve rarely seen a group of folks so quick to criticize, especially when they have never, and probably will never be in a similar situation. The dynamics of a gunfight are quite a bit more complex than sitting in your drawers at the computer second quessing every move and saying what you would have done. Get over it.
Are you seriously defending the NYPD for hitting 9 innocent bystanders from a stones throw away? You do realize how shitty their shooting had to be to hit so many innocents right?
JoshinGA says: “You do realize how shitty their shooting had to be to hit so many innocents right?”
You do realize with all the thieving, armed robbery, drug smuggling, arms trafficking and what-not, it’s hard for NYPD to get in any range time, right?
Bill, you do realize that their job requires, well excuse me, common sense states that a part of training for their job would be to become proficient with a firearm. Right?
Umm, yeah, I meant all the gun running, drug smuggling, etc. that the NYPD participates in.
Oh haha, that one flew right over the head.
Josh, I don’t think you realize how low the standard is to firearm “competence” for police officers.
They are discuouraged from getting range time. The NYPD does not want its officers to become “gun people” even though they are REQUIRED to carry a gun everywhere they go (NYPD are duty bound to carry while off duty).
joseph, if a legal ccw civilian had engaged this guy and did that much damage to bystanders would you, as a cop pat him on the back or snap cuffs on him? i am for the most part pro cop, but this was a dismal performance.
Maybe the NYPD should hire the 71 yr. old guy who shot the perps at the Fla. internet cafe. He was as close to the action as the NY cops, and didn’t hit ANY one that didn’t deserve it. I have a cousin that is a firearms trainer for the NYPD. You can bet when I see her again, I will be asking about this.
Can’t be blamed for you actions if you have a badge, eh Joe?
So, the police should have let him just walk away? Oh, and I wonder if he might have reloaded, since I don’t think he has a sign that said “Only three rounds left”. And what would everyone be saying if he took his three rounds and killed three other people with the cops standing right there?
“So, the police should have let him just walk away?”
No smartass. They should learn to fvcking shoot. They spend 40+ hours a week with their firearm. They belong to an organization who’s mantra is that they’re the only ones trained or responsible enough to carry firearms. They can’t hit a static, man-sized, target at ~15 feet with %100 accuracy?
I don’t know how NYPD does it but the Columbus PD (Ohio) will give every officer 50 rounds a week for practice IF they show up to the range. There is no excuse for performance like this.
It’s not like they didn’t know what the situation would be, they’re patrolling outside the damn Empire State Building. They, and their bosses, knew damn well that if they ever had to shoot that there would be a fvckton of potential collateral damage.
In another vein; If it had been a non-leo that got involved in a DGU, fired 16 rounds, and hit 10 different people, would you still be defending him? Yea, didn’t think so.
No they should not have let him walk away but they as supposed professionals should have taken it upon themselves when their employer wont to train themselves to deal with those types of encounters in a much more accurate way . Nine people suffered due to lack of proper training and some think that is ok because they got the guy…WOW
I will repeat my previous post on this subject. Had this been Afghanistan or Iraq the troops involved would be head for court martial not for hero status and their platoon leader would be relieved. The NYPD shot doctrine seems to be empty your magazine instead of shoot – shoot – look like the Feds.
Your daily dose of humour: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/nyregion/gun-used-in-shooting-at-empire-state-building-is-known-for-its-deadly-power.html
Smh…wow. As for the “broad side of a barn” remark…..what about the NYPD and their 9mm? Broad side of a barn: no. 9 innocents: yes
Wow. That was probably the worst reporting I’ve ever read
You realize we talking about the ny times, right?
Wow… just…
Damn.
Who would have thought that in an age where an endless source of information lies at all our fingertips that morons like that would be paid to recite and print information so completely incorrect.
In the heat of the moment with lead flying, sh!t goes wrong in a hurry. I can understand that cops can get lost in the red mist, especially if they aren’t properly trained. Somebody didn’t teach these guys what they needed to know. So, if there’s any blame to be attached here — and I think there is — it’s to the people who are supposed to be training the police to handle situations like this one.
NYC has gone for a quantity-above-quality approach, flooding the streets with over 35,000 cops, most of whom have little training. A highly visible PD is a good thing. However, there is absolutely no way that the NYPD can train so many LEOs adequately, and we can see the result.
Fortunately, this was not a situation where police randomly fired off 71 shots at a guy with a comb. They shot at a murderer. The “collateral damage” in this case is on the police brass, starting with Raymond Kelly.
Re: Ralph,
“especially if they aren’t properly trained”
Mr Ralph,
If they are not properly trained they should have neither gun nor badge.
If they are not properly trained they should have neither gun nor badge.
@Sammy, I agree completely. But they aren’t and they do, and neither is their fault.
I agree it’s a lack of training. The old NYPD with their revolvers did a better job. Ever round was important.
Moral of the story; NYPD need better firearms training. With a 56% hit ratio, with most hitting civilians……….
It has become almost pointless to illuminate the lies and distortions regarding firearms by the king of new york. This would be hysterical were it not that bystanders were hit and the negligent discharges are swept under the red rug. I consider this Bloomberg’s ‘Fast and Furious” moment. Who you going to believe? Your eyes or Dick-tatter mike? I saw the vid of the shoot down of the suspect.on ‘Silverforthepeople.com’. You couldn’t qualify for a carry permit in Kabul with those mad shootin skills. As I’ve said I lived in Manhattan for over a decade, almost 2, and love the people there. But for the life of me I can’t understand why they elected this buffoon (spare me the anti-Semitic “reasons”) term after term. I used to go to trade shows at the Javits’ Center, but I now go to shows in different states. I will not return to NYC, as much as I miss it, while this commie is in office.
@Sammy, I’m New York City born and raised (I left almost thirty years ago), so I understand why Mike Blameburg has been elected three times. If you saw his opposition, you would have voted for him too. Where I take issue with you is calling him a Communist. He’s actually an arrogant, billionaire fascist, with a profound belief in state capitalism. He would have gotten along very well with Gustav Krupp. Well, except for that whole Nazi thing.
Hey Bloomberg, the NYPD didn’t protect the dead guy and managed to put nine others in the hospital. Before you start pinning badges on these guys why don’t you be thankful they didn’t kill anyone with their exploding flowerpots, or whatever.
The shooter’s occupation was described as “designer of women’s accessories.” He fired 6 shots and scored 5 hits.
The two NYPD officers together fired 16 shots, hitting their target “at least three times”, and wounding 9 innocent bystanders.
I guess you could say both the victim and the shooter were sorely missed – the former by his friends and family, the latter by the NYPD.
For all you police apologists, who want to blame management for a lack of training, thats bullshit. Police should be expected to be able to shoot with their firearm before they get the job. What job out there outside of a internship/apprenticeship (or the LOL military), will allow you to start without knowing how to use the tools of your trade, especially when you could easily kill people with those tools.
If it was a truck driver, who was in a accident which killed 9 people, could he try to get out of a negligent homicide charge because his boss didnt properly train him to drive a truck? How about a surgeon who removes the wrong organ from a patient. Should he blame management for not properly training him?
+1
I don’t like agreeing with you. But when you’re right, you’re right.
This may be a regional thing. I grew up in a law enforcement household in the South, and was around a lot of cops.
My dad was an outstanding shot with any firearm he picked up. All his friends who were cops were excellent shots, who practiced a lot and even handloaded. His department not only required him to qualify with every handgun he carried on or off duty(including his Walther PPK/S and Chief’s Special), but he had to qualify at distances up to 25 yards with them.
Too many police in urban, Northeastern areas have their first exposure to a firearm when they join the academy. When I went through basic training in the military, I was SHOCKED to learn that my northern and/or big city fellow Airmen had never even touched a rifle.
Police should have to qualify twice yearly, IMO.
They do qualify twice a year. It’s just that qualification consists of two lectures, 45 rounds of practice, and 50 rounds of actual testing, 39 of which have to be hits. It’s not very rigorous.
I love Gunfacts.info.
After reading this thread, I noticed that “11% of police shootings kill an innocent person – about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person.”
…so I guess this whole NY thing shouldn’t surprise y’all.
When I was advising (and doing a whole lot of patrols with) the Iraqi Army, anytime they got fired on, or something blew up in their general vicinity, they would erupt into what we called “the death blossom”. Every Iraqi soldier would fire his weapon in a random direction until it ran out of ammo. (We adviser types usually ducked until it was over.) It took my team the better part of a year to get them to knock that stuff off and actually use prudent, well aimed (well, maybe not well aimed, but at least not indiscriminate) return fire.
Watching that video, caused me to have flashbacks to the Iraqi Death Blossom.
NYPD shot some innocent bystander earlier this month, too.
http://www.amny.com/urbanite-1.812039/cops-shoot-innocent-bystander-dog-during-brooklyn-chase-1.3888828
Apparently skill with a handgun is not a requirement for the nypd. I would expect a professional to be competend with one shot one kill. Two officers should have been able to fire two shots with 2 hits. To all new yorkers this should serve as a lesson to get rid of bloomberg and arm yourselves