Quote of the Day: There’s No Such Thing As a Perfect Weapon

“Certainly an alternative to live ammunition can be warranted, but the problem here is that [less-lethal weapons] are often deployed without a full understanding of their potential health effects. … There is no such thing as a perfect weapon, and weapons designed to be non-lethal can end up having lethal effects or infringe on people’s rights to speak out and assemble.” – Physicians for Human Rights’ Rohini Haar in The Eternal Search for a Gun That Doesn’t Kill [via wired.com]


  1. avatar pwrserge says:

    Aw… A commie rioter from Berkley doesn’t want to get tazered and water cannoned the next time her black block goes out to smash things.

    But she’s right. Using tear gas and tazers against rioters is silly. Lead works far better.

    1. avatar DDay says:

      I am a strong proponent of water depending on the temps. If they riot when it’s 25 degrees out, just water the rioters like a lawn sprinker would. After 10 minutes of freezing, they’ll leave quickly.

      1. avatar GS650G says:

        Shootings go way down in chicago when it’s 10 degrees and snowing outside. I wonder why.

  2. avatar Shire-man says:

    Yup. Less lethal can be lethal.
    How does that interfere with a right to assemble? It would and should interfere with mobs and rioting but not simple assembling.

    She one of those smashing windows and beating people unconscious = peaceful protest types?

    There’s a whole generation out there who thinks they have the right to hit others without being hit back. The bitchiest little bitch bullies.

    1. avatar Pwrserge says:

      This is why the proper response to rioting is machine gun fire and air strikes.

      1. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

        The proper response to rioting is citizen militias guarding properties with privately owned arms.

        1. avatar cmac890 says:

          ^^^ Mic drop.

        2. avatar Pwrserge says:

          Privately owned crew-served weapons. Sure.

        3. avatar Sunshine_Shooter says:

          @pwrserge I mean, if I had it my way…

        4. avatar California Richard says:

          Silly hippy; Less lethal weapons dont shut you up, Pwrserge does.

      2. avatar Kroglikepie says:

        Sorry Serge, you’re wrong on this one. It is barbaric and inhumane to just mow down people you disagree with crew served weapons…

        Use flame throwers on the anti-Constitution bastards. Clear them like snow off the streets of DC.

        1. avatar Pwrserge says:

          I prefer weapons that don’t require me to get into bad breath range of my enemy. Especially ones that don’t have an unfortunate tendency to explode and set you on fire.

        2. avatar Kroglikepie says:

          You’re so picky…

    2. avatar JDC says:

      One thing I have noticed in the last 10 years or so is this. Blatant bad behaviour in public has really ramped up. Then when someone calls attention it, and names it for what it is, THEY are called a “bully”, when in reality, the bullying is being done by the person that started it. This goes on a lot.

    3. How does a non-lethal weapon prevent assembly? In case she hasn’t seen the news in the last 5 years, it hasn’t prevented even rioting, which in her mind is most likely peaceful assembly.

      1. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

        It’s the language of the left, looting the local pharmacy and burning it to the ground = peaceful assembly, killing an infant = choice, etc. It’s like euphemisms on steroids.

      2. avatar JasonM says:

        I don’t know of any recent cases, but back in the ’50s and ’60s, they used to use water hoses, dogs, and other potentially dangerous techniques on people protesting peacefully for racial equality.

  3. avatar Pwrserge says:

    Berkeley. ‘Nuff said. She just doesn’t want to get tazered the next time she and her black block go out to shout down a gay conservative.

  4. avatar JDC says:

    I think a Trident D-5 with 12 W88’s would be pretty close to perfect…

    1. avatar Pwrserge says:

      You squids and your tendency towards to overkill. You don’t deal with rioters using a Trident for the same reason you don’t spank a baby with an axe.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        serge. You trying to be the voice of reason just doesn’t work. Overkill is your trademark.

        That and helicopter rides.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          “If you wanted to teach a baby a lesson, would you cut its head off? Of course not. You’d paddle it. There can be circumstances when it’s just as foolish to hit an enemy city with an H-bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an axe. War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government’s decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him…but to make him do what you want to do. Not killing…but controlled and purposeful violence.” ~Robert A. Heinlein

        2. avatar Pwrserge says:

          Not “overkill” just the right amount of kill necessary to get the message across.

  5. avatar jwm says:

    Why call it a gun if it’s truly non lethal?

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:


      I would argue that a firearm is, in the strictest of terms, a compliance tool when someone uses one against humans.

      The compliance that the user demands falls under one of two categories, as expressed in the voice of the person deploying the firearm:
      (1) Leave me alone.
      — or —
      (2) Give me what I want. The “what” could be your money, your car, your body (rape), or your life (psychopath, stalker, megalomaniac, terrorist, etc.)

      Obviously, application number 1 is almost exclusively righteous self-defense … and application number 2 is almost exclusively evil attack.

      With that understanding in mind, the only thing a firearm needs to be able to do is render the recipient incapable of attacking or resisting. Thus, Star Trek phasers set to “stun” would be the near perfect “firearm” for almost every application. The only application where a true Star Trek stun-gun would come up short is in criminal applications where the attacker literally wants to kill the victim. And that would be a good thing if all “guns” were truly incapable of killing.

      1. avatar IdahoBoy says:

        (3) Die

  6. avatar James in MO says:

    “There she is… Set to stun”

    Only in a galaxy far, far away.

    1. avatar BLoving says:

      I distinctly recall a ‘Trek episode or three where the much-vaunted stun setting absolutely failed to have the necessary effect and our valiant crew member was forced to turn up the volume and vaporize the BG good and proper.
      Even a fictional “perfect weapon” can fail.

    2. avatar HP says:

      You’ve crossed the streams. Phasers to stun is Star Trek, a galaxy far, far away is Star Wars.

      1. avatar James in MO says:

        So I messed up the first line, but not the second.

  7. avatar Bob Jones says:

    How about “The Eternal Search for Physicians Who Don’t Kill” ?
    Careless, lazy, incompetent and stupid “healthcare professionals” kill over 1,000 Americans every day.

    1. avatar 16V says:

      Thanks, beat me to it. I always wonder if doctors against guns are deliberately deflecting attention away from their own horrible record, or they really are unaware that they kill more people than died in several wars, every year.

      That’s one of the fields I can’t wait to see replaced by AI. It won’t be perfect, but it’ll save at least 300,000 people every year.

      1. avatar UnPC Aussie says:

        While the old joke “What do you call the person who graduated bottom of their class from medical school?” “Doctor” is both rather cynical and entirely true I don’t think AI will replace clinicians for a few reasons. 1. Who do you sure when it gets it wrong? The programmer? 2. Garbage In, Garbage Out. The language of medicine is highly technical and rather different to common English. Most of a clinicians job involves soft interrogation and translating lay speak into useful information. How do you code a translator/learning engine to get from “it feels like stabbing/cramping pain in my right side that comes and goes” to “it is a periodic pain that lasts for 5-8 minutes at a time, radiating from the right flank into the groin” and decide that such pain is consistent with renal colic and is likely caused by a kidney stone padding down the ureter? If you think that cognitive bias in clinicians plays a part in misdiagnosis and medical errors (and it does) how do you mitigate programming bias in the AI? We are taught that roughly 80% of diagnoses can be made from taking a comprehensive history which of the most subjective post of the whole process and the part that an AI would be least likely to handle well/ any better.

        I would hope those that wield medicine incompetently, carelessly, negligently or criminally would be held to amount in the same way as someone wielding a weapon in a similar manner.

  8. avatar Curtis in IL says:

    Link to quoted article:

    It’s important to note that she’s referring to the use of “less than lethal” alternative weapons by police, not citizens. History shows us that governments often use weapons to stifle free speech and assembly – from fire hoses to machine guns. The existence of less-than-lethal weapons doesn’t change anything.

  9. avatar Huntmaster says:

    We don’t want to kill you, as that would leave us with a useless corpse we’d just have to bury any way. We just want you to submit. Then we can put you to work.

  10. avatar samuraichatter says:

    “There is no such thing as a perfect weapon”

    Yes there is. His name is Chuck Norris 🙂

  11. avatar Huntmaster says:

    A pile of dead serfs are no use to us. We’re just looking for compliance.

    1. avatar Pwrserge says:

      How’s the weather in Arconna today snake?

  12. avatar Marcus (Aurelius) Payne says:

    Jeff Speakman disagrees.

    1. avatar dlj95118 says:

      Haven’t heard that name in a long time.

  13. avatar jwtaylor says:

    The author is misinformed. There is a perfect weapon with both lethal and less than lethal capabilities. The M2 machine gun. It is lethal to the person being struck by the round and less than lethal to the person standing next to the person struck by the round.

  14. avatar Joe R. says:


    If we can only keep ‘doctors’ the F out of it there MAY be less killing required.

  15. avatar Kaban says:

    >>and weapons designed to be non-lethal can end up having lethal effects

    And they do. Kills with 10×28 ammo are not uncommon.

    ed: you might want to provide a link to the article in top post, ’cause those comments are between sad and hilarious.

  16. avatar Curtis in IL says:

    If I point my Mossberg at a home invader, request that he vacate the premises and he complies, then it’s an effective, less than lethal weapon.

    If said invader refuses to comply and I put nine holes in him, then and only then does it become a lethal weapon.

    Firearms are versatile that way. They don’t need to be used in a lethal manner unless such use is required. It’s generally up to the thug whether or not he wants to die.

    1. avatar Gman says:

      Me thinks we were on the same path at the same time…

    2. avatar JDC says:

      You know a 3 1/2″ can put 18 holes. Just sayin’.

  17. avatar Gman says:

    Lethal weapons ensure that most of us give due contemplation to the finality of the thing before making further rash decisions; and that fact, in itself, is a non-lethal attribute which cannot be understated. Is there not sufficient anecdotal evidence that the mere presence of firearms is preventative? And that those who fail to understand this truth do nothing to advance the gene pool anyway?

  18. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    “…There is no such thing as a perfect weapon”

    Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    The perfect weapon is the one that works when needed, the one that stops the threat.

    I am unclear, however, if the authors goal is highlight the body count of the police or the lack of training in the police that contributes to the body count. The article seems to be more about some tv show and less about how the police do what they do with the less-than-lethal weaponry available to them.

  19. avatar Skoon says:

    Damn now I feel silly for putting in all that effort to find a round with good stopping power. Note I realize I should have been looking for a less effective aka lethal round. 22 short, custom 28 gauge loaded with feathers and a paper wad.

  20. avatar G says:

    What happened to rubber bullets and bean bag slugs?

  21. avatar Timmy! says:

    “There is no such thing as a perfect weapon…”

    Except a 1911 of course.

    Oh no he di’int!

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