Home Gun Control Quote of the Day: Shannon Watts on Good Guys with Guns Stopping... Gun ControlQuote of the Day Quote of the Day: Shannon Watts on Good Guys with Guns Stopping Bad Guys By Robert Farago - June 9, 2014 168 Facebook Twitter Pinterest WhatsApp Email “This has never happened. Data shows it doesn’t happen.” – Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense of America, via cnn.com. Post Views: 97 RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR Go Figure: Washington, DC’s Strict Gun Control Laws Fail to Keep The City’s Citizens Any Safer California’s APPS Gun Confiscation Program is Backlogged, Ineffective, and a Waste of Tax Dollars Dowling: We Need to Take a Holistic Approach to ‘Gun Violence’ 168 COMMENTS Lies, damned lies, and statistics. The first two if the third doesn’t say what you want it to, eh? Reply She’s a delusional, lying liar. The thing that is so chilling to me is that I think she actually believes her own hubris. Reply Has she never heard of the military, or police? Or maybe they are bad guys themselves. Reply If youre not part of the agenda, youre a bad guy to them. Hang on. Statistics are not always incorrect. In fact, more often than not, the math is accurate; it’s how the results are interpreted by the researcher that come into question. In this case, statistics have nothing to do with this woman’s lies. She is obviously ignoring the data related to this topic, which means the numbers are not backing her up. Reply Correct, most often the data is just “massaged”, by leaving out whatever the speaker doesn’t like. NOT in this case however! This is not a massage of the data, this is outright ignoring reality in favor of a lie she decided to tell. These people know that CNN is on their side, and no lie, no matter how egregious, will ever be corrected. So they feel free to just pull whatever they want out of thin air. They know that CNN will never challenge it. Reply “I read the Chipotle menu for 10 minutes and saw no data in it supporting this” Reply The NRA has published stories from local news outlets about DGUs for years, in American Rifleman magazine, in its Armed Citizen monthly feature. They have a blog of same name, with archives- showing dozens of examples a year, if not by month. And CNN’s producers of “New Day” obviously know this, if the idiot talking heads do not, and thats why they set this up, with the well meaning but “scary – aggressive” OC Texas guy, showing the progtards jet another “gun nut” vs the carefully coiffed and smiling reasonable Shannon Watts. The softball question at the end about ANY example of DGU by a civilian, and the complete agreement with the lie about NO DATA , ending in that conclusion are simply propaganda. Stylized, organized, collusion and yet another nail in the coffin for whatever credibility CNN once had for news- I am reminded of producer Eason Jordan admitting they bought access to head of the line info, from Saddam Husseins PR guy, Baghdad Bob, by withholding real news from Americans. The fact that its financed by the left, and goes unchallenged by the StateRunMedia is no news- remember Walter Duranty of the NYT, covering up the news of the genocide Stalin committed on his own people? Remember, the left believes the ends justifies the means, and you cant make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Now you understand why people look back on some of the Jews in pre-WW2 Germany who lived in denial, and couldn’t imagine their own neighbors turning on them, and turning them into the Nazi’s. “But, we are good Germans, we are good party members”. Reply Ms. Watts and the CNN softballer apparently also think that vaccines do no good since there are no affirmative statistics of any identified person being saved by a vaccine. it is too funny to see Watts, wtih CNN agreeing, use the flawed logic of those in the anti vaccine movement! Reply I know people personally who have been able to protect themselves with firearms. Neither of them had to fire a shot…the presence of the gun was enough to control the situation. This is an outrght lie…does she really believe this??? Reply She learned about lying from Obama, Harry Reid and Bloomberg (plus a few others on the left)…deny facts, lie, cheat, demonize your enemies and the suckers who listen to her eat it up and send Money. It’s like “magic”…. Reply She first learned during her time at Monsanto. Reply We’ve moved into a time where nothing is factual but all Public Relations – this is her expertise and specialty and why she started this effort (I’m sure she saw a potential gig here which was going to be much easier than running here own PR shop which is what she did during the time she painted herself as a “stay at home mom”). It’s not about facts, it’s not even about advertising. PR creates news stories and the news media laps up and runs with these pre-packaged stories and talking heads. It’s less work and money for them and CNN opens up more time to try and get another advertiser for power scooters rather than wasting effort on actual news. Reply she beleives what she is paid to beleive Reply “Founder, Mom’s Demand Action” “Puppet, Bloomberg” fixed it for you. Reply I’m just gonna leave this here. http://www.wxyz.com/news/mom-opens-fire-on-home-invaders-in-detroit-to-defend-children Reply Rule #8. Expect to see more and more of her after the people mag thing. She is the face of the enemy of freedom. Backed by a billionaire. Reply …And she’s pretty, which makes her the TV trifecta! Reply If you’re into 40-something, had five kids, radical feminist, immature, arrogant, feelings obsessed, haggard, self important, likely covert racist, wanna be MILF-esque sorta chicks. But hey, to each their own. 🙂 Reply Yeah. Lets stick to the Israeli Super-models. Backed by a billionaire? No! Backed by one of America’s oligarchs. Reply If I say “There’s no gold in China,” then I have to search every river, cave, and tooth (including graves) to prove that claim. If I say “There IS gold in China,” then I only have to find one atom to be correct. Once again, she S.Watts away the truth and makes an argument she can’t possibly prove. Especially not when I have three off the top of my head: Pearl, Clackamas, and Arapahoe. Reply “If I say “There’s no gold in China,”…” For it to be the same as this story, you would also have to pretend you didn’t find gold every time you did. Reply Since the discussion is around the accuracy of statistics I will challenge your example of the Arapahoe shooter. That (comment moderated) decided to take his own life when the unarmed school security guards showed up which was only a few moments before the SRO got to the scene. In this case the shooter took his own life due to the impending presence of armed retaliation, not the actual presence. Don’t take me the wrong way. I am eternally grateful that the shooter was stopped, thus saving many more lives and potentially my son’s as well. It is important to note however that it the coward in question was stopped by the certainty that armed resistance was imminent, not present. Why is this important? Many reasons of course. Within the context of this conversation it demonstrates two very important facts. 1) The presence of uniformed, trained, government endorsed, liberal approved good guys with guns that guarantee the death of the perpetrator does NOTHING to prevent these events. 2) The presence of a good guy with a gun will end it faster and sometimes without the bad guy even seeing the good guys gun. Just imagine how quick it would end if the bad guys knew that 1 out of every 4 good guys on the street was armed and trained. Reply We need to start a ‘Dads demand action against tyranny.’ Reply No, Dads Demand Cutlery Control; or Brothers Ban BMWs Reply No, we need to find an egomaniacal billionaire psychopath to back us. Reply This is the “Big Lie” strategy at work. We live in strange times! Hopefully this is the dying shrill exortations of MDA as a political organization. Example of “Big Lie” “Tell a lie enough times and it will become the truth.” — Heinrich Himmler http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-propaganda.html#big_lie Reply That’s one of the Rules of the Internet. “Any opinion popular enough becomes fact.” Reply If it does not happen, and has never happened, why have an armed guard by your side Shannon? Reply ^ This, +1000! Reply It’s just another instance of a liberal holding two opposing ideas at once and failing to realize it. And, of course, she could be trusted with a gun (or in this case, her body guard), but you and I cannot. It’s that simple. Reply Ah yes, CNN giving more free press to a propagandist. Here is my shocked face. Reply Every time the mere presence of a firearm stops a crime from happening….it avoids becoming a statistic. Reply “…“This has never happened. Data shows it doesn’t happen.” – Shannon Watts, ” Haaa haaa haaaaaaa haaaa! I laughed so hard it made milk come out of my nose! Its going to be a good day today and it should be every day that starts with a hearty laugh! I am now going to join Dirk in loving Mrs Watts…. its good to have so much humor available in such a small frame and even gooder that the media makes her kind of humor so available! Reply Is Shannon watts evil? Reply Yes. In the worst form. Reply Well, that’s a complicated question. After deliberating on this point, my opinion is yes. My reason for saying so is that she wishes to impose her will, thoughts, feelings and opinions on others through force of law, which inherently carries with it the use of force of arms in order to gain compliance. So, yeah, that seems pretty evil to me. That she doesn’t seem to remotely understand what makes it so is not surprising in any way and makes her even more insidious. Reply Wait. Remember what Patton said. The idea is to get the other guy to die for his country (cause). This will end hopefully this year, if not for sure in 2016. Is talk will just disappear.Obama isn’t old money. Out with the old in with the new. Reply In my opinion we need to stop replying to such comments as we do, but rather take the effort to discredit the commenter by way of showing that they are purposely using a strategy that is intended to mislead (strawman argument for example) and do it in a forum where the media will begin to look extremely bad should they allow a guest to speak w/out evidence. I like usriflecaliber.30m1’s post. There does need to be a group for this purpose sooner the better. Truth About Guns…care to launch such a site? Reply The Truth About Lies? Reply This. More facts, more verifiable evidence. Less petty crap like picking on the woman’s intelligence or appearance. That’s petty, isn’t accurate, and the undecided feel that if that’s all that you have and you are acting like a jerk then maybe what she is saying has merit. Reply TTAG is doing a good job of discrediting “gunliars.” The media might be looking here, but Hysterical Moms Demand Anything sure as heck is. And there have been some public debates. Unfortunately, nobody can make the media monitor a site, so what you’re proposing is just “more of the same.” Reply Unfortunately, she’s quite right. There’s no data, because bad men don’t run to the cops when their victims turn the tables. The prudent citizen, for their part, doesn’t want the government involved any more then it has to be-especially if the bad guy hit the bricks with no shots fired. So, no report is generated -which means there’s no documented proof which can be used in a study. Further, because there’s places where concealed carry is illegal, a certain number of averted crimes will never be reported- don’t believe for a second that some folks aren’t walking about DC with a loaded weapon and a closed mouth. Their defensive stories will never make it to a statisticians desk. Reply Agreed. We all probably know people who have used their firearms to ward off a potential assailant. I’m not speaking of shooting someone in self-defense, but the mere display or presence of a weapon in the hand of someone defending themselves was enough to stop a crime from happening. The assailant isn’t going to run to the cops and tell them what happened, and yes, the potential victim probably won’t make much of a noise either. The guy ran off, end of story. Why stay up for five hours of questions and paperwork? So yes, no record was generated. The stats are skewed because most successful (non-shooting) DGUs are unreported. Reply So LEO’s are not good guys? Reply Or her body guard. Reply Of course a good rebuttal would be “IF that is true, it would have to be because not enough good guys are armed, and the process to be armed is so arduous that they are fearful of repercussions for doing the right thing. We need to make constitutional carry a reality nation-wide, and institute legal protections for good guys with guns protecting others in their community.” Reply Remember….learning defensive driving is useless. There are zero recorded instances of “superior driving skills” preventing an accident. Reply SCORE!!!!! Reply It’s a crying shame how someone that good looking could have the intellect of a gnat. Just when you think you’d like to head off to a motel with her, she opens her mouth and destroys any notion of romance. This woman has a troubled past. She’s been the “victim” of bullying and intimidation and now it’s her turn to get back at everyone in her past who dared to cross her line. Reply Look dude she ain’t all that good looking. She is pleasant enough to look at COMMENT MODERATED but once she opens that yap- ugly thru and thru. Reply Sorry, I think she is very intelligent. That’s why she is dangerous. And the way she uses that intelligence is what makes her a bad guy (or gal). Reply As above: If you’re into 40-something, had five kids, radical feminist, immature, arrogant, feelings obsessed, haggard, self important, likely covert racist, wanna be MILF-esque sorta chicks. But hey, to each their own. 🙂 Reply You only think that because of the followers she has. What’s the saying, every woman has a few fat friends to make herself look better when they go to the club. She really isn’t that attractive, in any sense of the word. Reply Ok, let’s see here: Shoney’s restaurant in Anniston Alabama (December 1991) – two gunmen force 20 customers and employees into walk-in cooler; private citizen and concealed-carry permit holder shoots and kills one and mortally wounds the other; no patrons harmed. Pearl High School in Mississippi (October 1, 1997) – 16 year old gunman killed 1, wounded 7; school assistant principal retrieved .45 semi-auto pistol from his truck and detained gunman until police arrived. Parker Middle School dance in Edinboro, Pennsylvania (April 24, 1998) – 14 year-old gunman killed 1, wounded 3, and planned to kill himself; owner of venue confronted gunman with a shotgun, detaining him until police arrived. Appalachian School of Law in Virginia (January 16, 2002) – 43 year-old gunman on campus killed 2; two students retrieved guns from their cars and, with a third, unarmed, student, subdued the gunman. Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City (February 12, 2007) – 18 year-old gunman enters mall, kills 5, wounds 4; off-duty police officer and a second police officer shoot and kill gunman. New Life Church in Colorado (December 9, 2007) – gunman enters church, kills 2, wounds 3; private citizen, acting as security, draws personally-owned concealed-carry pistol and shoots and wounds gunman, who then takes his own life. Gunman had killed 2, wounded 2 the previous day. Players Bar and Grill in Nevada (May 24, 2008) – 30 year-old gunman enters bar, killed 2; private citizen and concealed-carry permit holder shoots and kills gunman. Sullivan Central High School in Tennessee (August 30, 2010) – 62 year-old gunman entered school and threatened principal and students; school resource officer drew gun and initiated standoff with gunman until more officers arrived. Clackamas Mall in Oregon (December 11, 2012) – 22 year-old gunman enters mall, kills 2, wounds 1; private citizen draws concealed-carry pistol and aims at gunman; gunman then retreats and takes his own life. Mayan Palace Theater in San Antonio (December 17, 2012) – 19 year-old gunman enters restaurant, wounds 1, then moves to nearby movie theater; off-duty Sheriff Department officer shoots and detains gunman. …and I’m not even winded yet. Reply Nice! Thanks! Here in Houston the news reported that the (2) cop shooters were confronted by a chl prior to their suicide. The news reported he (chl) didn’t make it. It seems in later reports to have been sanitized. Haven’t found anything else about it…. Reply Well she’s actually right, if you take it literally. An incident is only officially classified as a “mass shooting” if four or more people are shot. If a “good guy with a gun” intervenes and stops the shooter before four people are shot, then the incident is never listed as a “mass shooting”. Reply …and if the body count reaches 4, then the good guy was unable to stop the mass shooting. Reply For her and her ilk (including the media propaganda outlets) a “mass shooting” could include as many as one victim. Reality has absolutely nothing to do with reporting. Reply Professional PR executive and paid shill for gun control tells outrageous lie about guns. In other news, water is wet and night follows day. I realize that there are many low information people in the country, but one has to wonder how many of those who are undecided are influenced by propaganda such as this. I’m inclined to think this has very little traction outside of the already decided, dedicated anti’s. I don’t think it’s a message that resonates with the ‘average’ person or which is even on their radar and for those few who are paying attention, I think common sense suggests that such blanket statements are simply false, not based on numbers or statistics but rather on operant understanding of the world, that is, I think those who are awake and thinking automatically know that a person would be better off with a gun in hand than without when violently attacked. Rhetorically, why do criminals use guns if guns are ineffective in influencing people and in deciding the outcome of a situation, for that matter, why do police use them? I’m certain that someone somewhere hears Watts and makes their decision, I’m almost equally certain that the number she convinces is balanced by those who wrinkle their brow, wondering what the heck she’s talking about, and that the vast majority who heard this who were not already firmly in the gun control camp simply heard white noise with no meaning at all. We worry about our ‘echo chamber’ and how it shapes our rhetoric. I believe this is another case of the anti’s working from the same disability: They say things which must sound absurd to a careful listener, because they cannot see the issue but through the lens of their own hoplophobia and agenda, tempered by long exposure exclusively with the sort of people who are eager to believe any statement that is pro gun control. Reply I think it’s this, and not delusion. She’s doing what she is probably being paid to do. Public relations is her profession, and that often involves spinning the truth and outright lying. It’s frustrating to see this bullshit being freely disseminated by the press without opportunity for a response. Reply Yesterday, in Pasadena, CA, some newly formed control group held an event where they invited people to come and make postcards to send to Washington D.C. (n0t specified if to POTUS or COTUS). All these handmade cards had the words echoing the Father of the SB spree killer victim “NOT ONE MORE!”. This was reported by KABC TV News. In the report they interviewed two of the “organizers”. Both displayed no knowledge of existing Gun Laws in California or at the Federal level saying that we “need” laws to regulate all these guns (as if none existed) just like we regulate cars, alcohol and several other examples. One person actually said we “need” to make it so these mentally ill people cannot get guns and kill people. Their goal was 1,000 of these cards and it looked like they may have had a couple dozen people at the event. Point is, you are correct in asserting that many people have little or no idea what gun control laws are on the books already, Ardent. The problem we POTG have is that we have not developed a “hearable” line of argument that specifies what laws are on the books and calls for enforcement of existing law. We say (general paraphrase) “There are already plenty of gun control laws in effect, they just need to be enforced.” The uninformed person hears “Bwah…Bwah..,Bwah…Bwah.” and retains nothing…except, maybe, “this person opposes gun control laws”. The anti’s selling points about the inadequacies of existing laws employ catch words and phrases that the uninformed retain…”loopholes” is a good example. “There are ‘loopholes’ in the Gun Control Act of 1968. There are ‘loopholes’ in the Brady Act of 1992” The uninformed hearing that probably could not name the law referenced or tell you anything about it, but can tell you “Whatever that law is, Shannon Watts said it has ‘loopholes’ in it that allow people to buy guns who shouldn’t be able to buy guns and go out and kill people.” Hardly helpful to us. Not to forget the propaganda value of the anti’s being able to cite our opposition to the existing laws, and new laws proposed in a negative way, which also “sticks” with the uninformed/undecided as “They oppose gun control laws”. Our challenge is definitely with the uninformed/undecided, but we seem to keep failing to develop effective messaging that causes them to retain what we need them to know and understand. Thoughtful, intelligent people like you need to work on this as the OFWG’s and Fudd’s running the NRA cannot seem to get the job done. Just sayin’. Reply So, POTG, why not identify exactly which laws (state and Federal) were violated by each new criminal shooter when a shooting occurs and is covered here? That could be the best antidote to the rampant “dumb” that I notice about “needing new/more laws.” Reply Good idea! Proof that she is delusional and living in her own reality. “There is not data” simply because she refuses to look at it or acknowledge it. Reply No data? Really? I suppose LEO and Military are out of the question. I’ve done it. So, there’s that. Listen to Cam in the evening – the armed citizen report – all of those are taken from documented reports in newspapers. So, if you’re too lazy to use the internet, just listen to Cam. He’ll help you. Reply Disband the police and the army. They don’t work. She just told us. Apparently to stop every mass murder the cops simply do something no one thought of. “Hey dude, mind just not shooting anyone else?” She is a liar. A complete and utter liar, and I’m not one to come out and say things like that often. Reply She is eye candy for good guys. It is an old trick that companies used for years. If you put a nice looking woman in your trouble area the boss won’t notice it. If also causes the mate to hate her and divide and concure Reply Watching the clip, they had the OCT guy on first, and he didn’t do too badly, I thought. He didn’t explain that the purpose it to get open carry of handguns in Texas, but otherwise had some good points. The liar Watts was asked about good guys stopping mass shootings. Of course she was wrong, as Tomahawk’s list above showed. Apparently MDA are going after Target on twitter to bully them into banning guns. It might be productive if we went on there and fought back. Hashtag is #offtarget Reply Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. Reply To paraphrase an old Al Franken bit, “Shannon, Shannon, Shannon. Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.” Reply +1000 Tomahawk…not much to add. WHY do people think Watts is pretty? I’m NOT on board with that. Reply Because she is not Feinstein… Reply Is she getting any money from overseas? Their may be a nefarious connection with other countries or entities that are hoping to disarm us. Reply I rely on Shannon and Bloomie (and their alphabet soup of misguided cult followers) for factual information and constructive dialogue like I rely on Kate Gosselin for parenting advice. Reply To think Shannon will shape a national debate or have anything to do with legislation on gun rights is absurd. The thought that mothers agree with her position is equally ludicrous. My wife is was anti gun until reality of me being on the road took hold and recognized the tool to protect her & the kids was a gun. The vast majority of women with kids will protect them giving the means to do so. And this is why Shannon and crew will fail. Their position is not supported by reality. Reply Yes Shannon, all bad guys are all the Billy the Kid, all LEOS are Leroy Jethro Gibbs, and all armed citizens are Barney Fifes. Reply Quite simply, she’s lying, and she knows it, and doesn’t care. Doesn’t care if everyone else knows she’s lying. Which makes her seem quite the interesting cocktail of arrogance and solipsism. Facts don’t matter. Only her fweelings do, and you can be sure her fweelings are more important than yours or anything else on planet Earth for that matter. I bet she’s a real treat to live with. Reply That’s always the rub. I’ve been around “gun guys” for a couple years now and they’re like 95 percent great, friendly guys and gals. On the other hand, antis are 95 percent horrible, selfish, hateful people in all aspects of life. The whole “it’s not about the guns” applies in more ways than ones. It’s almost as if there’s a distinct difference between those who gravitate toward responsible gun ownership and personal liberty and those who gravitate toward oppression, slavery, and violence. I’m reminded of Stephen King’s “The Stand” where after an apocalyptic virus wipes out most of the population, people feel themselves compelled to travel to two destinations. One is the “good” side for good people and the other is the “evil” side for the bad. The recent “gun control” debacle in America has the same effect, unveiling people for who they truly are, and we’re starting to see the truly ugly side that many fellow Americans harbor. Reply Reply “This has never happened. Data shows it doesn’t happen.” – Shannon Watts, PR shill for Monsanto I’m pretty sure Shannon has said the exact same thing when addressing inquiries into GMO Food causing cancer, sterility, and a host of other illnesses. Reply Maybe if she would keep the data – the data would show that it does happen. Just because the data doesn’t show that it happens – doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen – especially if the data isn’t kept. Also, just because Shannon Watts makes an unsubstantiated assertion doesn’t mean that it is true. Reply I believe the NRA has made a major strategic error. They felt they needed to respond to certain post-Sandy Hook voices that screamed: “WE MUST DO SOMETHING!!!” Rather than respond to those voices by asking why they wanted to do something that would make our society MORE BRUTAL — ala Prohibition and the War On Drugs and Mass Criminalization generally — they came up with a snappy answer. I am not saying that the “Good Guy With a Gun” response is wrong as such, or a lie or anything like that — it may be a perfectly good suggestion — but it was a STRATEGIC error — because sometimes when you answer a question you are affirming the basic assumptions of the person asking. The other side has an easier job — post a picture of dead kids and say” WHY??” and “NEVER AGAIN!” — our side actually requires a more nuanced job and a more complex answer. That is a handicap. Our other handicap is that there are no major “pro-gun” groups that are particularly sophisticated about complex ideological discourse and counter-propaganda. The real ANSWER to a “Bad Guy With Gun” is a campaign to fight against our Incarceration Society, mandatory minimums, the War On Drugs, zero-tolerance, ignorant juries, felonies without criminal intent, etc., etc. However that is NOT in the “Conservative” sub-culture playbook — so it won’t happen. In my view — none of us are safe until it does happen. Reply Initially, the NRA didn’t make a public statement at all, and was heavily criticized for it. When they finally did make a statement, they were criticized for that, too. Seems they’re damned if they do, damned it they don’t. Reply Sounds like President Obama when he was heavily criticized by the right for not bringing Bergdahl home. But I digress. Reply No, you don’t digress, you lie. Nobody is mad that Bergdahl came home, it is the blatantly illegal actions that were taken, including releasing 5 Taliban, that they are criticizing. Read for comprehension, not sensationalism, it helps. So somehow it’s different when Reagan released prisoners in order to ransom hostages from Iran, or Vietnamese prisoners were given up in exchange for John McCain? Reply Legality matters, except to the White House these days. I know, trivialities for leftists. In other words 1) you have nothing, or 2) you are partisan and want to hide that I am right and you or wrong or 3) this is over your pay grade. Who determines legality? It’s certainly not you or Bill O’Reilly. It sounds like you are the one with nothing, The law is quite clear, Obama himself signed some of the laws he decided to break…remember? Invoking O’Reilly….,you really are scraping for relevancy aren’t you? You say he broke laws. Others disagree. No charges filed. You are a bit of a windbag and obviously no one cares about your opinions. Wrong. You are pathetic. Even democrats understand he broke he law. Obama himself admits it. That he has not been charged does not change that. There is a difference. Certainly, the NRA’s “Bad Guy with a Gun” vs. “Good Guy with a Gun” catch phrase gained no traction with the general Public. It only seemed to evoke a response something like “Well, stop ‘Bad Guys’ from getting guns in the first place and ‘problem solved’ “. So, I agree with your assessment…to me that campaign backfired. It was easy for people to think, “Yeah? of course the NRA would say something like THAT! They only want to help the gun manufacturers who back them sell more guns!” Strategic fail. The whole post Santa Barbara meme “NOT ONE MORE!” is a logical fail, because that will never happen, but it is a success (with the uninformed/undecided) because you don’t have to think about it, only react emotionally…logic and reality be damned! Nice overall comment Emmanuel Goldstein! Reply It’s one thing to pop off like some sort of gun expert, quite another when that person is also rabidly anti-gun, and provides no reference sources. I call BS and offer study done by Cato Institute to refute http://www.cato.org/guns-and-self-defense Reply The anti’s simply dismiss the CATO Institute the same as they dismiss any statistics produced by the NRA (and other pro gun rights groups). In their view both (all) are pre-biased to prove a conclusion they have already made. That is not necessarily true, but the anti’s don’t care about truth, except as THEY decide it is. Thanks for posting the CATO link…I was racking my brain trying to recall who was tracking this stuff and it was CATO thanks to your link. I am not sure CATO’s study qualifies as statistics, though. Their effort is more like “documenting” incidents reported to them (and hopefully verified before inclusion). Statistics are more analytilly comparative, but should be based on verified, documented data. Reply “Statistics are more analytilly comparative, but should be based on verified, documented data” Go to state where you live and see if you recognize incidents reported, is the only way you will know if it’s documented or not. Texas reported incidents were accurate. Reply By the same token Cato is considered by most to be rabidly right wing. Can you find something more in the middle? Reply Insulting her intelligence (she is brighter than average, as much as it may pain you) and insulting her appearance (she looks better than half the frumpy girlfriends and wives you guys have, I am sure) is just really immature. And it’s doesn’t reflect well on the pro-gun side. Stick to the facts. Counter her arguments with statistics or, perhaps, legitimate reasons why her stats are wrong or misleading, if applicable. Don’t come across as sounding crazy because if you do it’s just another nail in the coffin of public opinion. Reply I am always amazed at the ability of the MSM to raise the importance and stature of a nobody to the level of cult hero when that person has done absolutely zero to be bestowed that honor. The marketing maven knows how to work the press, everything else she has is completely empty. Reply So just what’s the difference between an expert and a poser in your mind? A college dropout that has a job as a talking head on Faux News is an expert? I don’t know what her background is but someone said public relations. If that’s the case then she is going to be a strong foe. Just like Ms. Giffords. Well qualified, and the picture postcard for a gun shooting victim. Or Ms. Brady. Her husband was the Press Secretary for Reagan for crying out loud. Know and respect your opposition if you want to effectively counter their arguments. When you start off by being rude and illogical, or do that classic Romney move of dissing 47% of the nation, then we will lose this argument and we will see weapons bans. And we don’t want to see that, do we? Reply “I don’t know what her background is…” Well, maybe you should do some basic research before you spout off. That’s what experts do. Reply You just described the current occupant of the White House. Reply Legitimate constitutional scholar (and it’s amazing how many laymen will argue that he doesn’t understand the Constitution). Graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School (you graduate from an Ivy League school or even high school?). Practiced civil rights law and taught Constitutional law at the Univ. of Chicago Law School (anyone ask you to teach at a university?). Three terms as an Illinois state Senator. US Senator from Illinois. Worked in a best selling book somewhere there as I recall. And I doubt it was ghost written, as opposed to some of those other political books out there. Now he’s been President for two terms, and popularly elected. So he’s done something right unless somehow you think you are smarter than the majority of your fellow Americans. Tell us about your qualifications if you think he’s not qualified. Reply Show me the transcripts or it is all lies. We know he didn’t write the book. His own supposed classmates have never heard of him, etc….. And with all of those “qualifications.” he’s done an absolutely bang-up job with our economy, the Wars On Terror and Drugs, immigration, spying in America, corruption, and our foreign policy. /sarc The President is in office. Your guy isn’t. And to claim that someone doesn’t have a degree because they won’t show you their transcripts (when there is, presumably, a diploma and records from the various universities) simply shows that you are, to be polite about it, a real dumb ass. Really? That is why most professionals have their degrees on their walls and why companies won’t hire until your credentials are verified. Obviously you lied about your own credentials as well. Anyone who has attended even a community college would understand that. Apparently Obama’s credentials are so transparent as to be non-existent. I would never hire someone unwilling to prove their claims of higher education. Probably because I am not a dumb ass. Dumb asses “presume”. Paul, are you over 13? Do your parents know that you are using their computer? I would have asked you that question, but I did not want to be so juvenile….hint hint. Go out and play, children need fresh air and exercise. Maybe a neighbor has a big box you can play with, your mom can give you butter knife to cut windows and make a fort. Are you a graduate of high school? Or a university? Reply A university, how about you? University. But I wasn’t talking to you, I was talking to the critics of the President. My suspicions are they aren’t nearly as qualified as he is. We can provide our transcripts. Your potus can’t or won’t. Until then, he has no degree, excepting maybe Romper Room, like his followers. Then maybe she should surrender those gun-toting bodyguards of hers… since they won’t do her any good anyway. Since their guns are incapable of stopping any threat or attack on her, why keep them? Reply <> Cato is the source for all right wing statistics and are a bit of a joke in some circles. Any chance that you can find something similar from a better source? Reply Whenever I see someone denigrate something as a rightwing source I know that I am dealing with somone who has been brainwashed by the MSM. Reply And every time I see someone use the phrase MSM I see someone that has been indoctrinated by Faux News. As they say, reality has a liberal spin to it. You might consider moving a bit towards the middle or watching something for news other than Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson. Reply So how long have you part of the anti movement? If reality has a Liberal slant then why are deep blue jurisdictions bankrupt and crime ridden? Big difference between a liberal spin and a Progressive spin. Leftists have corrupted the word “liberal.” When I think “liberal,” I think the founding fathers, not the fascists that have hijacked politics today. I see that Mr. G. Has no answer,’ It appears that even the LV shooting incident contradicts liberal reality. While the armed citizen did die he wounded one shooter thereby imobilzing the pair. He was good guy with a gun whose sacrifice stopped bad guys with guns and prevented them from killing others. I don’t have a reply simply because I was busy. Show me a major US city that has a Republican mayor. That’s because there aren’t any. Republicans have abandoned or been thrown out of the major cities, depending on how you look at things. Deep blue states in trouble? Contrary to the Faux propaganda California and New York are going strong. Texas has high employment but below average wages on a national basis. I moved from Florida where solidly red Guv’ner Scott tanked the economy. Solidly red Kentucky has more people on food stamps per capita than any other state. So the red vs blue equation for economic results isn’t quite so simple. Unless you are a fool or watch Faux News for your information, but then again those two statements would be redundant. See John, the difference between us and the Liberal media (aka the MSM and most liberal web sites) is that you have NOT been moderated into oblivion, unlike the information outlets that you seem to be championing. Let’s see John: Detroit is in bankruptcy Chicago, bleeding money and near bankruptcy. LA close to bankruptcy Newark and other Jersey Cities broke and technically bankrupt. New York City has been run by red or purple Mayors for 20 years so it is solvent. New York State is solvent because New York City is solvent. When De Blasio wrecks NYC then New York State will become insolvent. Why do you think Andrew Cuomo has been stymieing De Blasio at every turn? Illinois is technically insolvent. California is technically insolvent and revenues are down from projections again. The initial big boost in revenue came from assets sales in anticipation of higher taxes and the taxes themselves.. Many California cities have filed filed for bankruptcy. Need I go on? How about the Liberal reality on crime. Just rank the cities by Murder rate and you will see that Liberal reality doesn’t match real reality. NYC has a reasonable crime rate only because the city has been willing to violate its citizens Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights to keep crime down. More Liberal reality: The VA system is the best model for quality healthcare. Paul Krugman told me so. The real reality is that the only people who have ever used the system are veterans with no alternative because the system has been bad since the beginning Real reality is that government run healthcare results in long waiting lines, inferior and indifferent care, and unnecessary deaths. Liberal reality is an oxymoron. Liberals don’t live in reality, they live in cloud cuckoo land. Reply Once again, you list cities in trouble. Try listing the major cities with a Republican mayor. Other than Jacksonville, FL there aren’t any. That’s because Republicans have been rejected. More like the democrats have a lock on dependency voters. Well, until you clowns can satisfy those “dependency voters” then you are just going to be a bunch of cry babies on the outside looking in. Republicans don’t represent large cities. How did that President McCain and President Romney thing work for y’all? When the bankruptcy settles in, those dependency voters won’t be gettin’ paid, see what happens then. Good luck with that one!! LOL! So what’s your strategy? When cities file for bankruptcy in … oh … maybe the next 50-100 years your New Redneck Party will scoop up all those now-unhappy “dependence class” voters because they will suddenly remember the stories of the good ol’ days back on your great-great-great-great-grandpappy’s plantation? You really should send a resume to the GOP and apply as a paid strategist. 😉 You really have successful ideas (not really) when you do the thinking for everyone else. You should just talk to yourself, that is all you are doing here. You decide what others say, you are an alligator, all mouth and no ears. You are just another useful idiot. And obviously you are an idiot, and not even useful. Except for my amusement. So tell us Einstein. Do you have any original ideas or just you just soak up the memes from the loony right and repeat them? Go back to preschool. You are so out-classed here that I have to pick up things with more IQ than you in plastic bags after our dog dumps them. Yawn. You have a childlike mind. I have more respect for rocks and dirt than I do for people like you. Please. Don’t try to breed. Too late, but it does prove you are a child. I guessed right, your remark about the age of 13 probably is related to how old you will be on your next birthday. I have socks older than you, and smarter. I am done wasting my time on your juvenile drivel. I guess there is one other possibility…is that you VP Biden? Get a shotgun….fire two shots. Cato link is simply a compilation for state by states of reported DGU use. Since I live in Texas and familiar with news reports DGU, checked each one cited and remember seeing newspaper articles or TV News report on each incident. Since it’s a report of actual incidents it’s immaterial to me what political bent Cato Instutute. STUDY: Using Guns for Defense Leads to Fewer Injuries – US News http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/06/25/study-using-guns-for-defense-leads-to-fewer-injuries You can do your own seach: Using Guns for Defense but be fore warned, it’s very tedious to find objective sites withou pro or con agenda Reply I agree with how tedious it would be but the subject has me curious. I may dig into the stories if I have the time. Thanks for a respectful reply. Reply “This has never happened. Data shows it doesn’t happen.” [Yoda voice] Hrrm… the ignorance, strong with this one it is. [/Yoda voice] Reply She knows everything she says is untrue. I firmly believe that the sole true thing she has ever said in her life is “My name is Shannon “. She’s spent her life as a liar for hire to some of the world’s most evil corporations. Now she “heads” an astroturf organization that was in place prior to the Sandy Hook shooting saying that it was kids getting killed to prompt her to put up a Facebook page, make one post, and get on MSNBC based on a single Facebook post. I mean that’s how the world works right? Make one Facebook post and 3 days later you have “chapters” across the country and are sitting on MSNBC… it totally works that way Reply THIS. Reply …then why does she insist on having armed security? Reply And why has she changed her name so often? Reply There are DGUs literally every day. This claim can be proven false in the number of seconds it takes to type “defensive gun use” into Google. It boggles the mind that anyone actually believes this. I also love how, if she’s talking about mass shootings, she cites this as if it was even possible for people to be carrying guns in the first place. Every mass shooting has taken place in a gun free zone. So let me get this straight. She and her ilk make it impossible for people to defend themselves, then get huffy and claim no one was able to stop the guy, so that proves it. Reply If there are actually defensive uses of guns then let’s collect them and document them and publicize them. Or does someone other than the NRA do that? (The NRA has little credibility among the undecided or gun owners on the left). Reply CATO does, but that’s the problem, antis will dismiss any source and any entity that proves how wrong they are, thinking it’s “biased. They aren’t looking for truth, they’re looking to perpetuate their agenda, that’s it. Reply http://thisainthell.us/ Every day. That’s just one site. Get “un-busy” and look around yourself. My time is just as valuable as yours. It is not my job to convince you one way or the other. Reply We can’t blame them. You know. The ones like her. They are uninformed. Improperly educated right from the start. And you notice…it’s always the ones from upper middle class echelons and above. They are subjected to the mind altering rants of the liberal schools and colleges who keep pushing the b.s. so hard they believe it’s all fact when in reality there is no factual basis to their belief at all. Then add to that the further truth that the liberal media out there (supported by the money and powers that be) only seem to want to report on the bad things that happen concerning guns but just never seem to hear about the good things. Look up gunfacts.org if you want to read true statistics taken from our very own law enforcement agencies records. Share that with people you know. Open their minds to the reality that exists outside of their protected depraved and mindless lives. Reply So what are you saying? That the only people with their feet on the ground are those who are blue collar and grew up poor? And that education is a bad thing? Reply She’s from Indiana right? Look at this mornings new about a man shooting an intruder. The intruder has and extensive background in hurting others. Good guy shot bad guy in it plainest. Reply After watching that video, im now even more upset at the two idiots who posed in Chipotle. Thats the lead picture i keep seeing all over news articles about OCT and its really making these open carry gun owners look exactly like what the anti’s want them too. Overweight tacticool ninjas who like to show off….I hope they at least understand now why people got so mad at them. Reply According to the CDC it happens a bunch. Reply scooter, Do you have a weblink for that CDC information? I was searching and not finding…but I thought I had seen statistics there before on DGU’s. Reply RF, You’re going to go nuts if Hillary gets elected and appoints Watts to some high level post. Understand that is Watt she is shooting for. Reply If Hillary gets elected? Right now that’s looking like a pretty sure bet, especially if the GOP can’t do better than Cruz. Reply Hillary? Dream on, even if she “won” the election she’d never survive to take the oath. Reply Secret Service have you on speed dial? That’s a pretty tasteless – some would say Fascist – thing to say. How do you know Shannon Watts is lying? Her lips are moving. Reply Ha! Must be nice to have no idea what data actually means. Reply JOSEPH ROBERT WILCOX. Remember that name, and make sure that Watts and her sycophants know it as well. He was the CCW holder who confronted the two garbage inside Walmart in Las Vegas yesterday. Sadly he died, but he was trying to stop the bad guys. And he most certainly helped, because he saw something really bad about to go down and he took it upon himself as his duty to try and protect the innocent. From: http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/shooters-carried-arsenal-supplies-sunday-rampage “The couple had left their Bruce Street apartment about 4:30 a.m., telling neighbors they planned to murder cops, the official said. Police said they were armed with several handguns and a shotgun, and carried several hundred rounds of ammunition. “He knew he wasn’t going to survive that day,” the official said. “Cops were going to die, and he was going to die.” After the shooting, the couple headed toward a nearby Wal-Mart, where Jerad Miller was confronted by Joseph Robert Wilcox, 31, of Las Vegas. Wilcox was legally carrying a concealed pistol. Wilcox was unaware that Amanda Miller, who was pushing a shopping cart, was involved in the incident and “lying in wait,” the official said. She slipped behind Wilcox and shot him at close range. “He had no idea the wife was walking behind him,” the police official said of the murdered man. “This guy (Wilcox) was not some idiot with a gun. To me, he was a hero. He was trying to stop an active shooter.” Police said this morning that Wilcox was killed without firing a shot. Officers exchanged gunfire with the couple in the store’s automotive section. Oil and antifreeze spilled onto the floor creating a messy scene. In the last moments of their lives, Jerad and Amanda turned and faced each other and spoke, though it is unclear what they said. She then shot him several times before shooting herself in the head. Jerad made some movements afterwards but died there. Amanda was showing signs of life and was taken to a hospital, but died soon after.” Reply Sounds like she was the one in charge. Reply Cue the MSNBC “me too” segment in three… two… Reply wow, damned wow, and wow. Reply “Guns Save Lives” have thousands of confirmed incidents. There are millions every year. She is lying and/or willfully ignorant. Reply Has this loon ever read “The Armed Citizen” in the front of “The American Rifleman”?? Doubtful but that would belie her statement and we can’t have that can we? Reply Hey Shannon! What about THESE? https://www.facebook.com/DJStuCrew/posts/562471960443325? Reply She’s resorting to bald-faced lying now. Gee, maybe she should run for president. Reply well, I find it really amusing of her to TELL US why people – people who lawfully carry – carry guns openly. I find it really amusing that she is the AUTHORITY on that – does that mean that we have the authority to tell her and the public what HER organization is about??? Reply Ok… so MDA has officially descended to the status of Troll Organization. There are internet trolls. There are patent trolls. There are racism trolls. Now we have gun trolls. 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