“LaPierre’s cynical argument that gun owners should constantly be fearful and expect to encounter dangerous enemies everywhere they look may help revive weapon sales. It also encourages gun owners to jump at shadows and shoot first in uncertain circumstances. Tell people it’s a war zone out there long enough, and many will start to believe it.” – Amanda Marcotte in The NRA’s Latest Propaganda Effort Will Sell More Guns… and Make America a More Dangerous Place [via salon.com]
Watchful, not fearful, thank you very much.
As for being a war zone … walk through the bad parts of Chicago, New York, or any other large city and tell me it doesn’t bear at least a passing resemblance to a city under hostile occupation.
“Watchful, not fearful, thank you very much.” I agree with that.
I think it will be a war zone soon enough, and now is the time to stock up on needed items if people have not already done so. If a war zone does come into effect you have what you have, that’s it.
Damn liberals are starting to make it a war zone… rioting and violently protesting everything. They’re fueling the fire, not the NRA.
I don’t know, maybe you guys grew up living very sheltered lives, surrounded by people that look and behave exactly like you. While I now live in Florida, where I operate a business in the firearm industry, I’m originally from NYC and return often to see family and friends. I can’t speak about Chicago, but there is NO area of NYC that resembles anything like a war zone. Maybe 20 years ago, yes. Most of NYC is like Disneyland. Been to Times Square Lately?
Sure I would feel more comfortable carrying in NYC, and really hope National Carry Reciprocity passes. I HATE going anywhere unarmed. I feel completely naked without a gun on my hip. I was in Orlando the night of the terrorist attack at the Pulse Nightclub eating a nearby restaurant at the time of the attack. I was with my wife, mother and little daughter. We were taking my little girl to Disney for her first time. Anything can happen anywhere, anytime. But I have not been in a situation in NYC in decades where I fear for my life. There is NOTHING to be afraid of in NYC. Some of the neighborhoods that were scary places 20 years ago are currently some of the trendiest neighborhoods in the world right now. Harlem, Bed Stuy, Washington Heights, Williamsburg, Bushwick, etc. Freaking Disneyland.
When was the last time you guys were in NYC, if ever?
I just think a lot of you guys are sheltered and afraid of people who are different from you. Yes I am a white conservative gun owner like you. I just happen to like and appreciate people of all different cultures. Growing up in NYC you learn to like difference, not fear it.
Nice strawman you have there. Be a shame if something happened to it.
You realize no one here is advocating getting “gun-ready” because “people are different than us”. That’s crap and I resent your holier than thou attitude. The world is violent, and unpredictably so, as you yourself described in Orlando. That’s why we’re wary and carry. Take your “better than us” attitude back to New Yawk, bub.
Come on over to LA !
we will do the tour of South central LA–Watts and east LA for laughs!
20 years ago you had a chance of walking through one of those hoods on a Friday night–now –call a tank!
then what was CLEARLY a safe place to call home –parts of the valley or orange county where my grandparents had a home in Santa ana–is now gang infested crud—and what type of ‘gang’ is another story—thanks Regan, you turd.
NYC I am sure has improved, as the value of housing SHOVED all the poor off the island–but where did they all go to? Ask around and I bet you find out?
I had reason to be in NYC several times in the late 70’s and early 80’s.
It was a steaming dungheap. There were some occasionally nice neighborhoods, but vast areas of NYC were filthy, crime-ridden crapholes.
About the only positive thing that I could say about NYC back then was that most of NYC was better than Newark, NJ – or the Oranges in NJ. I was more familiar with Newark than I was with NYC, so that’s faint and damning praise.
The last time I was in NYC must be 15 years ago or so. Overpriced, overcrowded and the folks living and working in Manhattan made people in New Jersey seem positively outgoing and friendly.
Given the opportunity to go back I would pass. Not because it’s like Chicago or LA but because I see no reason to return. The city holds no draw for me at all. In fact, I’d give NJ a pass too if not for most of my Dad’s side of the family living there.
NYC, along with most of CA, are where the worst of the worst in america are to be found. I’d just as soon book a flight to Islamabad as immerse myself in those oceans of leftists.
I agree that NYC has changed. Going to college on Long Island, moving from out west, in the late 80s early 90s, NYC was a dump. Homeless everywhere, Times Square was a retched hive of scum and villany, the whole place smelled like urine, and that wasn’t even the really bad parts of town. Went back about three years ago, after i graduated I figured no point in going back to that dump, my daughter was receiving an award at Carnegie Hall (sorry, had to slip that in). It was a different place, Times Square was very clean and safe, people were friendlier too.
But, other places went downhill. i was in San Francisco around the same time, sailing out of Oakland. Oakland was rough but Frisco was nice. Ten years later, I took my wife telling her what a nice city it was. Sadly, it had been liberalized and was full of homeless people urinating everywhere.
Jason, perhaps you are only referring to Mid Town Manhattan, try visiting 175th or Harlem & Spanish Harlem, say around 10 pm & then tell me what a wonderful place it is. I worked in Manhattan on & off for 38 years, ALL parts of NYC, the Grand Concourse once was THE place to live, once the Jewish folks moved to Co-Op city in turned into a trash dump. I worked many nights, legal or not I carried, saved my life one night on the Subway going to Thomas Street by the Trade Center, 3 nice THUGS coming towards me until I unzipped my jacket & pit my hand inside ready to kill them if necessary, guess who they were ?????? & Newark is WORSE……..
Well I’m an OFWG who has been in every crappy neighborhood in Chicago…most are awful and violent. AND to throw a wrench in weekly(sometimes daily) there are shootings on Lake Shore Drive and local expressways. It’s already a war here…
Boy, she knows how to fully miss the message or she knows full-well the message and wants to spin for the sheeple that are to lazy to research it for themselves. I am guessing the latter to be true.
She’s the same moron that wrote, “it’s really time for people to understand that rape denialism is like Holocaust denialism: a broad refusal to face reality” in response to people questioning the Rolling Stone UVA rape story.
LOL, she fell for that farce? LOL. That story was so easy to fish out as a scam from the start. “Jackie” the fraudster claimed she was raped at a pledge frat party in the fall semester when the frats pledge in the spring, claimed she was led down a side stairway out the side of the frat house when there is no side stairs that go out the side, on and on. Only an idiot would fall for that BS story.
Perpetual Outrage
I’m not usually one to agree with the media on this kind of thing, but as someone who has been to the NRA convention multiple times, they certainly do like to play to peoples fears even to an irrational level.
I do think it’s true. But it’s no less true of gun control proponents.
Another bloomberg troll, been seeing a lot of this lately!
I get the impression that anyone who doesn’t like the same breakfast cereal as you is another Bloomberg troll.
Ditto. It really gets stuffy around here when bad grandpa spits on everyone who walks through door. I guess our gun rights will only advance when the NRA deadwood retires or stops shooting and starts pushing up daisies.
If the NRA and its members cannot take constructive advice then they should stop taking our money. Move over and let modern gun owners and professionals take over.
Really? Were you awake?
NRA Annual MEETING is just plain old fun (don’t take a 12yr old with the flue no matter how long/much he has been anticipating).
While the NRA certainly does have a flair for the dramatic, nothing they say is incorrect.
Hellofromillinois:
You simply sound ignorant of history. In my US city it was 100% forbidden for a law abiding citizen, with no criminal record and with training, to own a simple five shot revolver to keep only at home — even unloaded.
I inherited my dad’s revolver in 2006 and could NOT own it where I live in the US.
So I call BS to anyone who claims the gun control movement does not seek 100% ban. They had TOTAL bans les than ten years ago.
I am glad the NRA warns and raises alarm about total bans and about confiscation (another stated goal of the large gun control groups) — these are FACTS about the aims of the gun control movement — and don’t say they are imagined or extreme, they were in place in several places in the US just a few years ago.
“Hey you can’t tell people it’s a warzone out there! Also it’s a warzone out there so we need to take your guns, thanks.”
Right.
You win the comment section.
*Ding, ding, ding*
Similar to:
“You don’t need to carry a gun, nothing is ever going to happen to you” followed by, “It’s super dangerous out there and that’s why we need more gun control.”
Her logical system is remarkably consistent when you think about it. Basically, in her mind the only real danger is from ordinary gun owners, who will one day go nuts and shoot up some public place or their family or whatever. To her, the need to own a gun to protect yourself from criminals or wild animals is stupid because that’s a rare event. The need to have you disarmed is smart because spree killings are even…er… more rare. But they could happen!
There’s a whole lot of cognitive dissonance going on to keep that narrative alive. The only consistency is in her irrational fear of objects and people she doesn’t understand, nor care to understand.
So, people like her see evil in the world and their instinct is disarm everyone. We see evil in the world and our instinct is to prepare for it. And we’re the unreasonable ones?
To prevent crime, good people must study crime-
and be prepared to fight criminals.
To prevent tyranny, good people must study politics-
and be prepared to fight tyrants.
To prevent war, good people must study war-
and be prepared to fight criminal tyrants.
To survive you must understand that there are those who would destroy you-
and know how to fight them.
Because you cannot prevent evil
if you do not understand evil.
Cliff H, 1999
I dropped the NRA(CA resident, you could argue the NRA dropped me) but as this lady clearly demonstrates, the NRA is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Not saf or goa or the other groups.
Please explain to me how she “clearly demonstrates” anything? I’m thinking your a bloomberg troll. I’ve been seeing a lot of that lately. Trying to destroy from within.
Jwm isn’t a Bloomberg troll. He’s been here for over 5 years. He’s rightfully pissed at the NRA for throwing in the towel in places like CA (which in turn has led to the fall of OR, WA, and CO).
Sounds like another troll to me!
Back at ya.
The fall of Oregon?
He’s a troll. You’re a troll. EVERYBODY IS A TROLL!
Hey if the shoe fits
Do shoot trolls or use a wooden stake?
I used the troll comment because whenever you listen to bloomberg stooges they always throw out wild statements like “clearly demonstrates” without any backup and if you read my comment I asked for backup. Don’t jump in my shit because your buddy can’t handle his emotions.
I’m pretty sure of two things here. 1, that jwm said “the NRA is the 800 pound gorilla in the room” which pretty clearly states his appreciation for an organization even if he left it. 2, that “clearly demonstrates” is not a pair of words that any group has a lock on and only their members use it. The NRA isn’t perfect and above all criticisms, but I agree with jwm that they are the #1 group fighting for gun rights.
… says someone whose name tag I never recall having seen before here … or on any other pro-firearms site I frequent.
And you accused him in the same post as you asked him to clarify what he meant. Unless he’s telepathic, you didn’t give him a chance to respond.
Finally if you bother to read the linked article you’ll see exactly what he meant. The article doesn’t mention GOA or SAF at all … It’s all anti-NRA all the time. A pretty clear demonstration of who she perceived as the primary threat. If you bother to read it.
You’re the troll and full of shit dave. My point was easy to understand and to the point. When it comes to the anti’s the 800 pound gorilla in the room is the NRA.
Need me to draw you a picture?
Hey, jwm:
An update for you on that stuff I said I’d test.
I’ve done the preliminary testing but live fire got pushed back to this weekend or next week. When I had the time the weather wouldn’t cooperate and when the weather was cooperating I didn’t have the time. Based on what I’ve found so far I’m guessing there wasn’t a malfunction with the firearm but other problems rapidly crop up. Remind me what that guy used? A Sig right?
If memory serves it was a Sig. He was hit in the arm I believe and when his own blood caused the weapon to malfunction he dropped it and pulled a S&W revolver to finish the fight. He explained how he staged guns around his shop so he was always close to one.
He was a jeweler or watch salesman with a shop in LA. He was featured on tv a couple of times.
At this point I would say that unless there’s something odd about the Sig I doubt he had a malfunction. As I said, live fire testing in the next few days but no matter what I do I can’t generate a problem that would, in a reasonable amount of time, be likely generate a stoppage. You’d have to be firing mag after mag after mag.
Slippery stuff on the grip, tested over a range of handguns, doesn’t really affect your ability to hold on to the gun that much. As such I’ve virtually eliminated “limp wrist” as a culprit here and I don’t even have to shoot to do it. This is somewhat dependent on the grip of the pistol though and I could see it being possible if someone had the wrong pairing of grip and hand. Like a smooth thick grip and a small hand.
What slippery stuff DOES do however is make manipulating some of the controls very, very difficult and in some cases simply impossible. In fact, just as a spoiler example, I would say it takes a Glock 30 pistol and makes it club when the mag in it is spent. With stock everything I simply can’t find a way to get the gun back up and running. The slide release is flat out impossible to operate, the slide is too slippery to pull back and that rear sight just doesn’t want to stay stuck on anything well enough to let you “slingshot” the slide. Once you’ve spent your 10+1 on that gun you might as well throw it at the other guy because you’re simply not going to reload it without wearing gloves or cleaning, or at least seriously wiping down, the gun.
Across all platforms that I’ve tested reloading becomes significantly more difficult and in some cases impossible from a practical standpoint. Surprisingly this affects revolvers A LOT more than I would have expected. At this point that’s where I’m leaning; that a malfunction is unlikely and what’s more likely is that reloading is such a PITA that simply swapping weapons is the best idea provided you have that option.
When I get the live fire done I’ll finish the write up for it. Maybe I’ll find some more unexpected problems once I start putting rounds downrange.
I’m looking forward to a complete write up. I hope RF lets you submit it as a post.
I prefer a revolver to an auto loader. But I’m not mule headed.
The first time she hears a shot fired in her environment she will run and hide behind men with guns. Making a mockery of herself and the womens movement.
95% of the Firearms Users Committing Killings Senselessly do their dirty work in big city minority neighborhoods, where NRA membership is likely to be non-existent or miniscule in numbers.
Please site your reference for your statistics or are you just another bloomberg stooge throwing up meaningless garbage. I’ve been seeing a lot of this lately.
No references, just personal experience.
I live in an unincorporated community and often hear gunfire. It is neighbors target practicing. Nobody getting shot at.
On the other hand, shootings in a city not too far away is most frequent in minority neighborhoods where gangs battle each other over turf, drugs or what ever they fight about. Innocent people sometimes get shot because gangbangers don’t care who gets shot.
I doubt the NRA has many members in such locations, the point the previous post was making.
Uh… it’s kind of like expecting things to be wet at the bottom of the ocean. I’m guessing you don’t agree?
Bosko makes the argument that he believes most gun violence doesn’t come from NRA members. How could that possibly make him a Bloomberg troll?!?!?!? Bloomberg is 100% about blaming the NRA for everything. I have to say, I’m super impressed at your ability to completely ignore all reality.
It would seem like the only Troll in this room is the Bloomberg plant who comes here and tries to cast aspersions on people who have been commenting regularly for years and are proven pro-2A POTG. Hmmm. New tactics?
Friend, the entire overage of US violence (and homicide) over the worldwide mean occurs in Democrat cities:
http://wtop.com/local/2016/03/d-c-baltimore-city-among-top-murder-capitals-u-s/
US “Red” (Republican) Congressional districts average lower murder rates than Australia or Canada
These days, I’m less inclined to care what far-left outlets like Salon have to say. Polling data seem to indicate that people are catching on to the fact that they are being misled and outright lied to even by more mainstream outlets (NYT, WaPo, NBC, etc.). Seen the adds, representing millions of dollars spent, trying to convince the public that the NYT is a purveyor of truth? Saw a similar add from the Philadelphia Inquirer last night. Absolutely reeks of desperation. Leftist authoritarians are still a potent treat to individual liberty. I’m just a bit tired of worrying about it, and right now seems like a decent time to take a break.
If Marcotte’s assertion was correct, there should be a lot of lawful firearms owners “shoot[ing] first in uncertain circumstances.” But that’s not happening. Never has, almost certainly never will.
Does that matter to Marcotte? No. She won’t stick around long enough to collect or even look at any data; she’ll just move on to the next unsupported and unsupportable assertion.
Pretty sure the unchecked foreign invasion and demographic inversion is making America a more dangerous place. Not the NRA.
I haven’t noticed a lot of gunfire out there. Am I missing something?
Hear is the real “Truth About Concealed Carry.” Most permit holders don’t carry regularly. It can be a real hassle. The top reasons for getting a permit are probably the ability to carry a firearm when bow hunting and to simplify ttansporting firearms to the range. Self protection is and probably will remain a distant third.
And you know this because??? You’ve talked to every single gun owner? I carry every day, everywhere I go, including the kitchen. I CC occasionally too. Hundreds of people have gone through my handgun and self defense classes. I’ve talked, at length, to all of them about how important it is to be prepared ALL THE TIME, simply because there is no way to predict when trouble may develop.
If I carry the rest of my life, and never have to use it AGAIN for self defense… that’s just dandy by me. I’ve already had to shoot a man to save my life… once was more than enough for me, but I’m ready to do it again if necessary.
I know this because only a small percentage of permit holders carry on a regular basis. We all know that. Furthermore, all you have to do to verify my statement is look at the distribution of permits by county in places were hunting is big. Most of the permits are issue outside of major population centers. Why else does someone La Crosse County Wisconsin get a CHL? There is virtually no violent crime here.
The TTAG community is not a representative sample of the gun community. By this I do not mean rhat most gun owners hate thw NRA only that we are heavily weighted with self defense oriented people who carry most of the time. You need to get of your bubble and actually talk to people in person. Your prepper friends don’t count.
“only a small percentage of permit holders carry on a regular basis. ”
You don’t KNOW that, any more than I do. Unless you have some documentation of this, it’s merely your opinion.
Not that it is relevant either way. Those who prepare to defend themselves will have a better chance than those who don’t. That’s what counts.
“Most of the permits are issue outside of major population centers”
Incorrect. Most permits are actually in major metros. The permit holders who actually carry the most often are likely within urban areas and metros.
Indeed, Pat, and ever greater numbers don’t even have any kind of “permit” these days either. Can’t count us, let alone determine if we carry much or little. The idea that these idiot “surveys” mean anything at all is silly, and merely a distraction. Every human being has exactly the same rights, and those are not determined by any sort of “vote.”
“I know this because only a small percentage of permit holders carry on a regular basis. We all know that. ”
Citation required.
I won’t hold my breath.
I don’t know what State you live in, but where I live you don’t need a permit to carry a gun into the woods, bow hunting or otherwise.
Here in the Midwest the only war zone I know of is the liberal utopia known as Chicago, where nobody pays any attention to the NRA.
“Nuke the entire site from orbit—it’s the only way to be sure.”
I wonder how lil Kim Jong-un feels about Chiraq? Only 500 more miles than to LA.
Pedantic alert: it’s more like 2,000 miles
Super-pedant alert!
Pyongyang to Los Angeles – 5,960 miles
Pyongyang to Chicago – 6,460 miles
by the great circle route that any ICBM would take.
Source: Microsoft Streets & Trips world map.
She’s right! Why, just this morning I took a couple of shots at some bushes along the side of the road. Thought there might be some gang bangers or terrorists or something in ’em. I fixed ’em up reeeeeeeeellll good…
Thanks for making me look at a pic of Amanda Marcotte. What’s next? Keith Ellison sitting with Debbie Wasserman-Schultz at the SOTU Address?
Amanda Marcotte, the progressive blogger who wasn’t ethical enough to retain a position on John Edwards’ political campaign. Fair minded enough to call the falsely accused Duke lacrosse players “rape-loving scum.”
Hey Salon editors, lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas.
Maybe Wayne was referring to “enemies” of the 2A and gun ownership. Without them there is no need for the (current) NRA.
She better pray not. A war would make Salon on the wrong side for as long as they lasted.
They’d probably last longer than you’d think. I mean, at least a couple of weeks. Most likely live in studio apartments in urban areas. Craven as they are, they’d hunker down and starve to death when the food stopped showing up at the local natural foods store.
No they wouldn’t last that long, most of them just eat out and have very little food in house.
The [anti’s] cynical argument that [non-gun owners] should constantly be fearful and expect to encounter dangerous [gun owners] everywhere they look may help revive [gun control legislation]. It also encourages [anti’s] to jump at shadows and [cry wolf] in uncertain circumstances. Tell people it’s a war zone out there long enough, and many will start to believe it.
I always loved how anyone concerned with self-defense is a paranoid lunatic but people who believe gun owners are running around vigilante style slaughtering women and children at will are perfectly rational and reasonable.
I tell people (when it rarely comes up) that carrying a gun is like wearing your seat belt. You don’t drive around in your car in constant fear you’ll be in a crash, but you wear your seat belt because you know there’s a chance that you could get into a wreck, and want to be best prepared to survive it. Same as with a gun. Same as with a fire extinguisher in your house. Same as with fire/ smoke alarms. Same as with locking your doors.
In my state, it is illegal to drive without a seat belt on. Would that they did the same for guns…..can’t leave the house without strapping your seat belt and strapping up.
I use car insurance as my analogy because most people have more than they are required by law to have.
“via Salon.com”
No surprise. That website and it’s propagandists are by far some of the most racist, hateful, fear mongering invertebrates imaginable. Literally any action, organization, person, or philosophy that they disparage is probably morally and ethically just. Think and do the exact opposite of Salon, and you’ll live a vibrant, fulfilling life.
Is she still trying to lynch the Duke Boys?
Or an Al (I’m an idiot who gives comedians an [sadly Joe Piscopo]) Franken ‘I’ve already waived my right to bitch due to all the POS B.S. things I’ve silently tolerated from the POS (D); Obama; and Hillary’ for president in 20 _ _ ad.
Or an Anthony Weiner “my wife is a Saudi Manchurian Candidate tied to a global Clinton Fraud ring still attempting to give away America’s secrets and assets behind the scenes, because we’ve already taken the $$$ from foreign interests, so sext me if you think I should do what Brucetta Jenner did” ad.
Man! She is one scary looking dude!
It’s not called Chiraq for nothing.
“planned parenthoods cynical argument that women should constantly be fearful and expect to be raped and impregnated everywhere they go may help revive funding. it also encourages women to first hate every man they encounter in uncertain circumstances. tell women its a rape zone out there long enough and many will start to believe it.”
Ok, gang … first it was one of our comment crew referring to Dworkin & MacKinnon, twice; now The Overlords head an article with Amanda Marcotte.
Just … stop.
Look, I am not a “9th wave feminist” like TV’s Andy Levy, so I have no standing to opine on what is feminist or not, or even what is Good, True, or Right. Indeed, as a white, hetero male of a certain age I have nothing to say about any significant social issue, all issues being my fault, by my choice, my gender programming, and my corrupted biology, or most likely all three. Or so I have been told by all three of the movement-eers.
That said, in my intrinsically defective way, I think Camille Paglia is 9 different kinds of awesome.
The thing is, they are terrible people. Horrible humans. Awful examples. These are the kind of people who would give rescuing puppies and kittens a bad name, just by mentioning puppies and kittens in one of their screeds.
I can literally think of nothing that would help our cause as much as Ms. Marcotte continuing to bloviate about guns. People will flock to the opposite — our — opinion in droves, just to spite her. So, let her keep talking. Just please don’t put any more of that at the top of a page. I’ll be a week washing my mind out after this exposure.
Oh lordy, that scraggly old ink, combined with the otherwise browbeating-Sunday-school-teacher appearance, it’s like a nightmare