“People don’t take into account where a Ford is made, but they do and they will in exercising their constitutional right. For people passionate about their Second Amendment rights, it is important whether that company, by staying in New York, is undermining Second Amendment values.” – NSSF SVP Lawrence Keane in New York gun makers in a squeeze: stay or go? [at buffalonews.com]
The majority of gun owners don’t care. Aguila is made in Mexico. Smith & Wesson in MA, Remington has been in NYS for some time ditto for Kimber. Henry is in NJ. There are plenty of gun companies in hostile states who think nothing about disarming the populous at the same time loving the tax dollars. Why does Ruger with only a business/sales office stay in CT????? And their sales is outstripping their production.
Truth is, it is not that easy for smaller companies like Mossberg to just pack up and move. At the end of the day, much of the aerospace industry being in the northeast, some of the best machinist, tool & die makers and molders are located in the Northeast. You cannot simply pick up and move an entire industry. With all that being said, the cost of living, taxes and aging population is making the decision to slowly move part of the operations out the Northeast and over a long period of time they will completely move out except maybe for business offices similar to Ruger.
Very few will change their buying habits, the majority will go for price and what they like and will leave politics to the side.
Hell, if the NSSF had any conviction of its own words, they would pack up and move out of Newtown, CT
+10
I do care as to where my guns are made; however I live in New England so I take pride in New England made guns (NY and Remington can go scr*w). I also find it to be an ironic, wonderful joke that the NSSF is in Newtown.
It would be nice to see these states lose out on the tax money they get from gun makers if they were to move to more gun friendly states like Indiana or Missouri. I wonder how far(barring certain senators like Feinstein) gun grabbers/banners would go in banning certain guns relative to the loss of business/profits and the resulting loss of taxes. Many of those smaller companies that sell high dollar products probably generate some good revenue off of AR’s and AK builds, and would have been closed down or would’ve had to go into a different market, considering most of American gun manufacturers business is private not government. It’s sick that government officals use our hard earned money to attempt to suppress or destroy our rights, but I should be used to it?
“At the end of the day, much of the aerospace industry being in the northeast, some of the best machinist, tool & die makers and molders are located in the Northeast.”
Huh? Almost none of the aerospace industry is in the NE. In fact the only place in the NE with any relevant aerospace industry production is CT.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40967.pdf
Aerospace is CA, WA, TX, KS, AZ, AL, MO, FL, GA, OH – with CT being the only player in the entire NE quadrant.
While hiring some new staff and relo’ing existing staff can be a logistical PITA, it’s not really that challenging if you want to do it. Companies do it all the time. And there’s millions of unemployed aerospace machinists as well as tool & die makers all over the country.
That’s what I don’t get about some gun companies. They could hire one or two good gunsmiths, a dozen or more good machinists, have the gunsmith(s) train the machinists in some of the issues of gun finishing, have the machinists train the gunsmith in production and cost reduction techniques, and the company should be able to mint currency in today’s environment.
That’s because you don’t hold a Master’s in Business Assassination. You’re attempting to put together a rational and viable manufacturing model that would have at least 1 or 2 extra employees, which could place a Veep’s bonus in jeopardy.
Sure, the advo dollars will go up trying to get past poor quality, and the returns and lost sales will more than eat up any savings from those 2 job cuts, but that doesn’t matter this quarter, now does it? I got mine. When sales start going to the competitor, maybe we’ll lower prices, do some more ads, and claim to have heard the customer, and well, we all know the rest of the story.
Sadly, that’s the prevailing metric. It took 40 years of ignoring your customer, selling substandard product, and a BK a blind man could see coming years ahead to (let’s pretend) wake GM up.
I care, and I will hold weapons product manufacturers liable for their support of States that infringe on our Constitutional rights.
I vote with my money.
The reason why the older names in the gun industry are still located in New England and NY/NJ is because that’s where the machine tool industry grew up in the US. The machine tool industry and the gun industry grew up together in the US, cheek-by-jowl.
Gun companies in the 1800’s were basically production machine shops. You had Winchester in New Haven, Colt in Hartford, S&W in MA, Remington in Ilion, etc.
Aerospace, on the other hand, was never, ever in New England. Aerospace started with names like Boeing (Kansas, then Seattle), Lockheed (Burbank, CA, then other places), Northrup (Los Angeles), Grumman (Long Island), Rockwell (all over the place, but not in the northeast), etc.
Today, there’s still quite a bit of machine tool production and service in the northeast and midwest.
Pratt & Whitney, East Hartford, CT makes engines for all plane types, Sikorsky Air new Haven, CT makers of helicopters. G.E. was in Pittsfield, MA. also makers of aerospace products.
The Seattle area would be an excellent place for someone to set up a manufacturing operation along the lines you were talking about, DG. I bet there are a ton of former Boeing machinists who would love the opportunity.
Many of the companies may have some facilities in hostile territory. However, many have spread out. Marlin has a factory in Ky. Even Remington moved its ammo plant to Lonoke, Ar in 1986. As mentioned, Ruger only has offices in CT. Its serious stuff is done in NH and AZ (and soon NC).
That said, Springfield, Kimber, Remington et al. need to think hard about things as do their employees.
“Marlin has a factory in Ky.”
No, Remington does. Marlin only exists in name. All Marlin guns are made in Remington facilities.
While owned by Rem, it is still a separate company and ran that way. Winchester on the other hand is just a name owned by FN. Besides, the Ky factory existed when Rem bought Marlin or should we say “The Freedom Group.”
The Freedom Family Group of Companies has several brands including Remington®, Bushmaster®, DPMS/Panther Arms™, Marlin®, H&R®, NEF®, LC Smith®, Parker®, EOTAC™, AAC™, Dakota®, INTC™ and Barnes Bullets™. Marlin had bought H&R in 2000 and Remington bought Marlin in 2007. Then Freedom Arms got Remington . . .
people do care where a product is made, thats why my Ford truck has a sticker on it stating as much. Moving out of NY is probably financially sound (lower labor costs, lower taxes), getting to rip the gun laws is just the icing on the cake.
And it’s why Toyota slaps a huge “Made in Texas” sticker on the rear window of their Tundras. There are people who have moved to support a Texas factory built truck even if its corporate offices are in Aichi Prefecture, Japan just to avoid supporting bailout-propped GM/Chrysler.
Umm i used to work for Ford your truck was assembled in louisville from parts made in mexico france canada and taiwan. they have stickers on em now that tell you where the parts are from.
That is true for a lot of things. However, Ford did not kiss Barry butt and take a bailout. Ford did not become Government Motors (GM) and did not get sold to the Italians like Crappler did. Crappler was just bought back from the Germans prior to the collapse. If it wasn’t for the Wrangler, Crappler could go to hell.
Yea it is sad that most cars are assembled in america from out sourced parts chryslers are actually being assembled here again thanks to Fiat buying them out chevy well they’re made everywhere else minus the vette most of it is made here and assembled in bowling green
While Ford did not get the same flavor or quantity of bailout, they got some loans (paid back).
What Ford had going for it at the time (beyond product and mgmt) was that they saw the storm clouds on the horizon and borrowed every penny they could, mortgaging everything up to, and including the Blue Oval itself. Before the money spigot got turned off.
The avoided Barry hiring them a CEO etc. and telling them which vehicles to kill and which ones to make.
16V: Yep, Ford mortgaged themselves to the hilt after they had cut their labor costs. I remember in the mid/early 2000’s when Ford decided to buy their way out of a lot of contracts, and they held a voluntary buy-out at very generous terms. They were hoping to get “X” employees to go for the package, but they actually got something like “X+25%” employees. It was a bigger than planned expense for Ford at the time, but in hindsight it was a gift.
They then nailed down their borrowing for the next 10 years. It was a very smart move.
GM, on the other hand, was (and still is) basically an HMO that made automobiles.
(at the risk of this becoming a thread for a different TTA..)
@Blue, They did avoid that.
@DG – You’re right, the buyouts were as integral as the borrowing. Not to mention corporate culture, and, well as an oldster from that other site, we could turn this into a verrrry long thread.
My wife’s Camry was made in Georgetown, Kentucky. When I open the hood and look at parts I see places like Wisconsin and Ohio. As far as I am concerned, it’s more American than a “Detroit” car assembled in Mexico out of international parts.
Scottlac (I swear I’m walking away after this one) depending on which “American” car you’re comparing against, a Camry may have waaaayyy more content that is sourced in the good ol’ USA.
If it’s electronics, it comes from elsewhere. I don’t care who you buy it from, it’s 90%+ Chinese manufacture, and 99&+ Chinese components. If it’s electrical, it’s a 50/50 crapshoot, but almost always some Chinese components. But the plastic bits, seats, steel stampings and whatnot, are likely of domestic origin.
One of the biggest reasons the US auto industry was propped up was that the domestic subs would have gone down with them. And since everybody subcontracts, it would have been a disaster of truly brobdingnagian proportions. With a tsunami of knock-on disasters. We can discuss all day long whether that would have been a better long-term solution than forestalling the next GM BK which is already looming large. I’ve done this all years ago, and unless we’re having a few drinks IRL, I shan’t spend the time re-dissecting it all.
I think more like the straw that broke the camel’s back. That’s what happened with Beretta USA, a MAJOR employer in Accokeek, MD. I saw their open letter; there was a lot between the lines.
It makes me sad that LMT is located in Illinois. They need to come to Texas, where they wouldn’t be hated. However, with a several year backlog of orders I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
I do care and wont buy any products made by any manufactuer still in the NorhtEast.
I recently returned a set of grips when I noticed Pachmyer is in Connecticut.
Business is business.
You know, that’s exactly what the drug cartels say . . .
Any firearms company that’s getting heat because of its location should take a page from the Magpul and Beretta handbooks. Take great umbrage at the state’s onerous laws, announce loudly that they’re leaving the state and then do nothing of the sort.
Magpul appears to be making good on it. the re-call election may make a difference.
After the recall, no matter what the result, the laws will remain on the books and Magpul will remain in Colorado.
Don’t bet on it on either case. Ask former Gov. Beige Davis about passing bogus legislation and getting removed via recall and having your bogosity reversed.
Beretta USA is moving out of state in a deliberate fashion. They actually care about their employees.
And you never know, the Gov may offer the Beretta execs lavish financial compensation to stay. Quietly, of course.
My Glock is made in Austria but me and countless others still buy them and I never hear people of the gun cry about not being made in America. So if that isnt un-patriotic then I am sorry but I dont see buying a gun made in NY as un-patriotic. Business that packs up and leaves town and unemployed, well thats lasze faire but its not great.
Just so you know, recently Glock finished an expansion of their Smyrna, GA facility. They are now producing full guns here. The grip now says MADE IN USA and the slide and chamber have small state of Georgia outlines on them with a P engraved in the center.
I just bought a Glock 23 with Trijicon sights made in the USA (Smyrna, GA). It runs like a champ. I now have 2 Glocks 23s.
Get the Hell Out Of New York ! if they insist on being lame butt yahoos, don’t produce ONE DIME for those STUPID FOOLS! Let Bloomberg make up the difference financially, he seems to like to piss away monies in other people’s states, let him make up the difference in LOST REVENUE in his own state!
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