Question of the Day: What Happens After the Next Newtown?

No, gun rights won’t survive. Not if it happens soon. We are one psycho with a rifle (or any gun) from losing it all.

God forbid, but if it does happen the other side will push for everything… then all bets are off.

Gun rights can survive another Sandy Hook.

The thing I’m worried about is whats going to happen if the shooters don’t have access to guns and use something more effective? It doesn’t take much to build a giant bomb these days, and gas is always available. Add in all sorts of gas attacks through ventilation systems and stuff along those lines and the body count at Sandy Hook is tiny. I think we really need to harden security as a whole to prevent as much of the obvious things as we can. Car bombs and truck bombs can be stopped just by adding reinforced concrete pillars outside the buildings. Ventilation systems need to be protected.

Fire suppressing systems probably need to be upgraded too, it doesn’t take anything more than a super soaker with gasoline in it to burn down a building with a few chains to stop an escape…

Really when you think about it there is no way to stop the next nutjob from killing tons of people as long as we refuse to lock up said nutjobs. Guns are just an ineffective way of getting the body count that makes you famous.

Sorry if it sounds harsh, I’m starting to realize I was safer at home with my mom and dad than at my elementary/middle/high schools. We really need to start locking up bad and super crazy people until they are no longer bad and/or crazy.

The next mass shooting could be our very own Dunblane. Especially if it happens soon. Despite what facts and logic tell US, many people would fall victim to the emotions of such an event, at a time when the emotional outcry against guns is already at its tipping point.

It depends on the scale; if more than half a dozen children are killed by some nut with a modern sporting rifle anytime in the next few months, I will not be surprised to see something along the line of Feinstein’s AWB passing.

No one can take away another individual’s inherent rights. Someone could violate your rights by passing “laws” or forcing you to forfeit your property, but you still have your rights. It doesn’t matter what the “law” says or even what the Constitution says… human rights are inherent!

Now, do I think we could avoid violations of our rights after another Sandy Hook? No way!

My greatest fear is that gun rights won’t be the only thing that won’t survive.

Mike Galanos at HLN used the phrase “semiautomatic rifles that mimic military assault weapons” this morning. Maybe there’s hope.

If we think the push against 2A rights is bad now, imagine what happens if a tragedy occurs with something OTHER than a semi-auto rifle or pistol holding 15, 30, 50 rounds.

Whose read Matt Bracken’s, Enemies Foreign and Domestic?

The question is not whether the country will lose civil rights, but whether or not we will have to fight for them.

What’s going to rock is when it happens again AFTER an AWB. Then after the next ban, then again.
Because these school massacres have nothing to do with guns other than that’s the tool used to kill. Same day as Newtown, it happened in China with knives. The UK has a massive problems with knives.
Because none of this has to do with guns. It has to do with a destroyed culture of death worship that has lost it’s reverance for life. It has to do with extremely demented mentally ill people not being treated. We also have a political class of people who desire power and no challenge to it.
Until those things are addressed, it will continue no matter how much you disarm the honest law abiding people.

In a word…no. Its all about timing and momentum. If such an event took place today, the right to keep and bear semi-automatic weapons would be gone…and not just rifles, but pistols too. I do think bolt action/lever action rifles would survive as would shotgun doubles and pumps, and revolvers. These, however, would be subject to a more insidious registration regime in order to acquire and keep.

If we’re afraid of this it’s only because we’ve allowed the anti’s to define the debate. I see events like this as an example of the chickens coming home to roost. That is to say that after decades of efforts in society and the legal system to demonize all things gun-related, they have only succeeded in creating an environment conducive to this evil behaviour. The anti’s are so much more at fault than the law-abiding gun owners. They should be the ones under pressure to compromise their views and allow reasonable repeals of unreasonable gun restrictions.

I sincerely hope that logic would prevail. However the emotional knee-jerk response, strengthened by a fresh barrage of endless media hype would be difficult to overcome.

It’s astounding to think of all the time and energy Americans (both Pros and Antis) have spent on the gun control issue while almost nothing has been done or even proposed to address the core problems like Gun-Free zones, mental health, etc. That is the true tragedy IMHO and I hope it’s a long time before we have to face those facts in the wake of another massacre.

No, I honestly don’t think we will be able to hold back the tide. I wait and watch every day with my gut in knots for some nutjob to do one more stupid horrible thing that is going to wipe out my 2A rights as a citizen.

It could easily happen. The 2nd amendment gone overnight and one or two mass school shootings is all it would take. There’s a reason guns are flying off the shelves and ammo is scarce. People are scared and for good reason. Is it crazy I spend my lunch hour every day for the past month combing the local gun shops and Walmart for .22, 9mm and .40 ammo? Yes it is!! I feel crazy having to do it yet every time I visit a store and there’s no ammo to be had I feel justified. People are scared (lot’s of us) that we’re about to have our 2nd amendment rights taken from us.

A little off topic here but, I’d still like to know why it took police and other first responders 20 minutes to arrive on scene after the first calls…

A couple of weeks after Sandy Hook I was talking with a friend about new gun control legislation. He said to me “The politicians aren’t going to come after bolt action surplus rifles or pump shotguns, that’s ridiculous”.

Gun owners in the mid-late 60’s said the same thing about having firearms mail ordered to their front doorstep.

Gun owners in the mid 80’s said the same thing about the machine gun registry.

Gun owners in the 90’s said the same thing about Clinton’s AWB.

Saying “It’ll never happen” and other such methods of sticking one’s head in the sand is how we as a community will get fvcked over. If all “assault rifles” were to disappear tomorrow, the next psychopath would just use a “hunting rifle” to kill people and bring about proposals for further bans.

This is why we all need to offer to take as many of our fence sitting friends and family members shooting as possible. Even if you only successfully introduce one person to the hobby and they love it, that’s one less person who will fall for the media’s emotionally based antics.

I think if something else happens you’re another step closer to civil war. It just pushes people more into their corners, and when they pass that sweeping law that brings civilian disarmorment, you can bet the freedom fighters will be out in force to protect their rights.

Wrong question.

We should be asking can Gun Free Zones survive another Newtown.

Logic is on our side and the best defense is a good offense.

What has become clear is that Americans prefer that murders occur one or two at a time, rather than 26 people at once, though much more rare in occurance. They prefer that the victims be black teenagers whose value can be discounted by assuming “they somehow deserved it,” thus shunting aside any need to reflect on the killing, so that one can move on to the sports scores. Unlike, though, the cheap concealable handguns that are instrumental in most murders, the Personal Defense Weapons used in Aurora and Newtown are also exactly the type of arms having any utility whatever in fulfilling the 2nd Amendment goals of an armed people with only a small “standing army” of government-paid enforcers. Look in the mirror, America, and admit that you will not react politically if an additional 500 inner city minorities are killed each year one at a time and in diverse locations you never visit, but that you will demand extreme and ineffective changes in national gun laws if, as a result of particular careless relatives, teachers, and therapists, a madman again shoots 20 children once during the year, but all in one five-minute interval and in one room. “Hard cases make bad law,” and terribly sad but statistically insignificant events are a poor context in which to alter the rights of 300 million citizens.

And the far left and the MSM can’t wait for another tragedy like Newtown! I know that sounds harsh, but look at the mall shooting in Oregon, shooter (who used an “assault rifle”) was confronted by a CC permit holder, coverage from the anti gun crowd, nothing. Shooting in NM by a teenager, shoots his mom and siblings with a 22 rifle (not an “assault weapon”, coverage by the anti gun crowd, nothing. Shooting in TX at a community college, involved minorities, coverage by the anti gun crowd, nothing. Because it doesn’t fit their narrative! But let another shooting with an “assault rifle” happen, and no one armed was there to stop them, watch the non stop coverage for days, weeks and months until all of our 2A rights are gone!

If another spree killing occurred with a AR-15 or AK clone we would certainly be more likely to see a AWB. The real question is what happens after a AWB, and the next spree killer uses a handgun?… and what happens after a handgun ban and some psycho with a bolt action hunting rifle goes on DC sniper style killing spree?… so on and so on…

Make no mistake about it if gun rights do not survive the current or future political climate no other rights will survive either.

Oh, it’ll happen again. Those who wish to push gun control will see to it.

One of two things can happen. People can see how dangerous the world really is and decide that the most logical course of action is to learn how to defend themselves and their families. Or they can descend into emotional insanity and wish the problem away to the land of rainbows through oppressive legislature. With the general stupidity in the public these days, I fully bet on the latter.

Much like asteroid impacts with the Earth, spree shootings are an unavoidable curse of life. They happened in 3000BC, they happened in the 1800s when bolt action guns were the assault weapons of the time, and they’ll happen again after Sandy Hook.

Its just a question of when itll happen. The damage afterward depends on the circumstances. If another mentally unstable person shoots up a school, people can at least grasp that the gun wasn’t the catalyst. If a stockbroker with a wife and 3 kids and no criminal record murders his family and takes his legally owned AR15 on a rampage, game over . Lacking anything else to blame, the guns will be demonized by Joe Six-Pack.

The 2A will only survive if we are ever vigilant, and remain constantly on the offensive. We must constantly work to repeal the already very, very many bad gun control laws on the books! There will be no time to celebrate our victories, never a moment to rest- this is an endless Sisyphean task to preserve what few precious rights we have left… NEVER forget that!

Wouldn’t the fallout from another school shooting depend on the school and who was doing the shooting?

Can’t hardly deny things would be different if “Sandy Hook” happened in Chicago’s south side or Watts, or even New Town Conn. If things were different they wouldn’t be the same.

Like things being different, I see that “there are other ways to kill people” thing quite a bit, as though being able to fill a cheap wine bottle with gasoline and stuff a rag in the neck, or mix diesel fuel and fertilizer, is some kind of excuse to do nothing, or an excuse to even look into, explore and study what may be feasible.

By the way, todays fertilizers suitable for bomb making are tagged, so I hear. I have also heard the purchaser gets “looked at” if they buy a whole bunch of it.

Far as the “banning”, I have to admit when I first heard of “bans” my immediate response was “I want one”, but then I stopped and thought: What would I do with it? Burn up ammo and overheat a barrel. I’m one shot one kill and it had best be dead before the bullets done moving in the creatures skull. Get better meat that way.

Will private ownership of weaponry survive another Sandy Hook? Probably. More than likely. It’s survived Giffords and Aurora AND Hook. Too much money in guns.

I think the greatest threat to ownership of guns are the Sarah Palins, Alex Jones and Ted Nugents. They present themselves as “fighting for rights” while also being the loony toons with guns.

I shudder at the thought of what might happen should the American gun owners be pushed too hard. Too many of them *would* crack under the pressure and attempt to win or go out in a blaze of glory. And after that, all bets would be off.

And the problem is, you can’t stop madmen, not unless you can identify them and cure/hospitalize/neutralize them *before* they act. There’s no chance of preventing mass murder attempts, not in this day and age. Suppose you lock up all the guns, knives, axes, cars, gasoline, fertilizers and many other things common folks associate with danger? The civilization as we know it collapses – and you know what? A determined and knowledgeable high-school kid could build a bomb out of the over-the-counter stuff you can find in a *pharmacy*. Potentially deadly chemical weapons can be created even beginning with stone-age level tools and naturaly found ingredients. You can kill dozens or even hundreds of people using basically a saw and some wires. I could go on and on and on. And the problem is, most people don’t realize how fragile our societies are and they, to use a famous quote, can’t handle the truth.

We have to try and convince those people thaw law-abiding gun-owners are not the problem, they are a part of the solution. And we have to do it without pointing out the vulnerability of our societies too much, because that could give too many crazies dangerous ideas. I honestly hope we will succeed.

Weather or not the 2nd would survive another mass killing depends (unfortunately) on the NRA being that they’re treated like the spokesman for all gun owners. What SHOULD happen if there were another killing during all this debate, is the NRA and any pro 2nd politician clearly blaming the left for leaving our schools “gun free”‘and vulnerable despite the continuance of violence at these locations. But would that happen? I doubt any politician or the NRA would have the back bone to take that charge to the left.

Another shooting in Phoenix today just as gun control hearings were being held. Supposedly an altercation at an office and the person went home and picked up his sporting rifle. IF, IF, this person was a law abiding citizen and bought this weapon legally, we’re in for a shitstorm. Not a mass killing but any shooting right now hurts us.

Unless there’s a change in fundamental logic in our society, then we’re just engaging in a controlled retreat. Our country is run by representatives that need (roughly) 50% of the vote. To get that, they will vote for what’s in the best interest of the largest group of people.

Right now, the American people feel that there’s a reason for everything. There is no personal accountability. If someone has gone into a school and murdered a bunch of children, it’s because they were a disturbed person, and it’s our fault that they had access to weapons and not enough help. We drove that poor soul to what happened. He/she was born a pristine snowflake, but through some complex biological and social program, hey ran down a matrix that resulted in “Mass Murderer”. The fault was ours, not theirs.

So right now, the intention is to try to codify, in law, all the ways in which a person could possibly happen to run down that matrix, and if they make a wrong turn, then pounce on them and rob them of everything they have (Liberty/Property). Unfortunately, to keep this process going, we also need to rob the rest of the people of property and liberty, else you don’t have the resources to keep such a dragnet going.

It’s Homeland Security. It’s Obamacare. It’s Medical Malpractice.

Arming yourself puts you distinctly in another camp. Like many people have said “Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword.” Most of the people view that as a negative. In fact, it’s more an altruism you could just extend to anything. “Live by X, Die by X” just says that aligning your life with some paradigm sets yourself up to define your life. Arming yourself says to the world, “I am my own master, I will do what is necessary to define my life. Conversely, I also accept there are other armed people out there, and they may use that power for good or evil, and I will accept the consequences of this.”

Someone is always in power. There is no world in which humanity is going to exist where someone isn’t calling the shots. It just wouldn’t work. The question is will it be you, or will it be your master.

I would say 49-51% of the people currently do not think this. They would prefer to live as surfs who constantly “hope” for a better king to rule them, and who eagerly turn over their goods to the knights and tax collectors under the fervent hope that those knights will protect them when they need it. Of course, the ones who find out the truth, usually end up losing that bet.

As a foundation for this statement, I propose you look at the 2008 presidential campaign. One of the candidates primary message was “Hope” for “Change”. Hope is an emotional state/response a person has when they have no physical or rational expectation on a return. They voted someone into office who said “I may do some stuff for you. But if I don’t.. well I tried. Let’s hope i do better next time!” Who would sell their house or car this way? Who would trade something they have, for nothing but a wish? Yet, we traded our country and rights a way for a wish.

So, yes. There will be more shootings. People have been killing people for as long as there’s been people. Killing kids is pretty easy. We round up our all our kids and put them in a confined space for basically 1/3-1/2 of their childhood. It’s safe money to assume someone’s going to take that opportunity to cause damage.

Until the Majority decides that people are accountable for their own actions (both theirs, and the people around them), anything that empowers a person is on the chopping block. Firearms being one of the greatest ways to empower yourself, is one of the first things to go. Instead we will all be left with Hope.

Something has happened.
I thought this was about the Alabama murder / kidnapping when I saw it.
Madman murders bus driver and kidnaps six (6) year old child at random.

After the next Newtown…

The Anti will go into overdrive.

We should go on the offensive, and as another poster said, we should put the blame on the other side for the GFSZ nonsense.

I will not be punished for the actions of another.

End of discussion.

Another ‘Reichstag fire’ is worrisome.

Another mass shooting in a GFZ will happen. The anti’s are wasting everybodies time and energy defending against useless gun laws that will have no effect on the next Lanza.

What the anti’s are not doing in any meaningful way is increasing the security in these places to prevent the next shooter. I was at an elemtary school last week that had no locked doors, no fences and the only security was an unarmed female office staff, just like Sandy Hook.

If she was serious about preventing another tragedy Difi would drop this foolish AWB and work with both partys and the NRA to insure these unprotected schools have the security they need.

These bastards and their tyrannical “Gun Control” agenda are WRONG. Having more shootings isn’t going to change that fact. There could be 1000x school-shootings tomorrow and they will STILL be wrong.

It’s time to hit back at these sick bloodancing, traitorous tyrants and their FatherlandSecurity/BATF thugs with all fury.

Go on the offensive. Show them that their push for shootings/incidents so they think they can get their agenda passed isn’t going to work. In fact it will do the OPPOSITE.

I’ll tell you this: Regardless of what happens in the future good, bad or otherwise… From now on we are getting our rights back. We will NOT comply with anymore infringements.

We are being far too meek about this. Saying “I want to take your guns” is the same as saying “I want to put you in a gas chamber”, because the one enables and leads to the other.

What if someone came right out and said “I’m coming to arrest and then murder you and your family”. Would would wait passively for that to happen, or would you favor the “best defense is a good offense strategy”?

We’re at the stage where more talk only helps the enemies of our nation (Democrats and RINOs). As I mentioned in another post, two million armed men descending on Washington D.C. would make quite an impression on the Obamas, Schumers and Feinsteins of the world.

BTW, the left is also busily and successfully destroying all the other constitutional freedoms besides the 2A. In fact, the only amendment not under furious assault is the 3rd, and that’s only because the left hates the military.

Never mind another Newtown. If there’s another 9/11, the whole Constitution goes down the drain. All of it.

What happens if the next big shooting is perpetrated with a manual repeater?

We should be pointing out the likelihood of another Newtown, until and unless we put armed security and preferably volunteer armed staff in every school. It can be done, and it should be done, and we should be even more strident on this issue than we are in defense of our rights. It needs to be a central and essential part of our argument.

If it happens at any of the schools where you might find my kids or wife, you can bet your last dollar that I’m going after everyone who failed to take ANY action to improve their protection post-Newtown.

If one of my kids or my wife is a victim, I will very likely need to be physically restrained from responding more than with lawsuits and bad PR.

Fremont has done NOTHING to improve security at our schools.

The Fremont school district has done NOTHING to improve security at our schools.

Alameda County has done NOTHING to improve security at our schools.

California has done NOTHING to improve security at our schools.

It’s a sad day when I have to have conversations with my kids about when to run, when to hide, and when it’s fight-or-die time — and my instructions to them, in large part, directly contravene the so-called “safety plan” at their schools.

That’s why we need to harp on the “Gun Free Zones” being the places these killers go.

And push for having armed security, formal or informal, at our schools.

Every time it happens in a Gun Free Zone we need to harp on the “Gun Free Zone” status. And mental health issues.