http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-LvXWtsVaI
“Take that f***ktards picture down!” TTAG commentator GE howled underneath Connecticut Gun Control and the Big Lie About Spree Killing. GE’s not alone in his opinion that TTAG shouldn’t post pictures or names of spree killers; our very own Bruce Krafft shares that opinion. I, obviously, do not. I believe that individuals in specific and society in general need to look long and hard at homicidal maniacs. It’s one thing to say that murderers live among us, it’s another to stare them in the face. Looking at the face of evil is one of the best ways to turn civilian disarmament proponents into gun rights advocates. I know. It happened to me. The moment I looked into a knife-wielding mugger’s cold dead eyes I knew that I had no business telling people to be disarmed. Hell, I had no business being disarmed. Am I wrong?
No, don’t publish names or pictures. So many want to be remembered or to have their 15 minutes of fame. Perpetrators of this kind of violence should know they’ll be nameless faceless murderers. Don’t give them the power of “being remembered”.
No to photos. No to names. May they forever rot in obscurity.
Amen. Let them fade in death who did not have honor in life.
1
On the one hand, I think media ends up glorifying spree killers in their coverage, which makes copycats more likely (hence these spree shootings happen in groups). I believe one network even assigned the Columbine boys their own theme song.
On the other hand, I think using this guys name and image months after the event and subsequent media frenzy isn’t that big of a deal.
Exactly. An open discussion is a good thing. Pictures and names might as well be used (though I’d prefer if they weren’t), since we need to work through the problems and know what (who) we’re up against.
The 24/7 media frenzy that follows these things is a huge problem. I’d really appreciate it if a site like TTAG didn’t buy in, despite the lure of pageviews.
The full-saturation fame machine that follows every “successful” spree killing is disgusting. It’s like pouring gasoline on a bonfire while pretending to be horrified by the destruction. Want to instantly transform yourself into a petty evil god? Just kill enough innocent people, and mission accomplished.
Somehow that cycle needs to be broken.
Don’t withhold information from us. The benefits outweigh any (unproved) risk. YES. DO IT.
Nikon was born as Nippon Kogaku Kogyo KK (Japan Optical Manufacturing Co.) in 1917, through the merger of several optical companies.
Their first job was making a periscope for the Imperial Japanese Navy’s one submarine. Soon, however, they branched out into warship rangefinders (including for the giant Yamato battleship), gunsights, aircraft interception plotters, aerial cameras, night-vision and infrared scopes, underwater motion detectors, and other military optics.
I think they also had a line of binoculars for both civilians and military customers during the 1920s and 30s, although production went entirely to the military by the mid-1930s. And they made lenses for view cameras in this period too.
Brief background: WW2 began early in East Asia. Japan, which had colonized Korea since 1905, annexed China’s northeast provinces (Manchuria) in 1931, calling it Manchukuo, and sent its army into the rest of China in 1937. By the time of the Pearl Harbor attack in December 1941, Japan’s military was quite well experienced, including committing atrocities, and had seen much action (though not against topnotch adversaries, such as we eventually became).
Bottom line: Nikon was from the very beginning a military contractor, and no small-time operation, either. By the end of the war, they had 25,000 workers in 26 manufacturing plants.
It was only after Japan lost the war that they switched (under threat of being dismantled) to cameras, binoculars, astronomical telescopes, microscopes, and other civilian optical gear.
Good source for Nikon history is Brian Long’s Nikon: a Celebration (2006). The book includes many photos from the 1920s onward of company staff, products, and facilities. One shot from 1947 shows Emperor Hirohito greeting a line of people that includes the author’s grandmother! As many know, Hirohito’s hobby was marine biology; as many don’t know, he owned a Nikon microscope.
If you carry any kind of Nikon gear (the brand name dates from 1947), give a little thanks to Douglas MacArthur.
Yes we want to see progress where the idiot politicians quit trying to stomp all over the Constitution and quit trying to pass laws that infringe upon our rights.
While I wouldn’t ban the names, I would certainly try to minimize use of either the face or names of those notoriety-seeking killers.
SO he throws DiFI a one sentence bone and then plays for Schumer’s bill AKA AWB in Obama’s mind is DOA. Agree Ralph??
Maybe. We’ll see. One thing we all know about Obama is that he has the willpower to try to do whatever he wants to do, no matter the consequences. He’s very sure of his omniscience. It ain’t over yet.
True but the AWB is no longer his main aim its gun registration. Keep calling and make sure he is a failure here like he fails to make America secure.
I personally would like to see then referred to that does not utilize their names. You could refer to one scumbag as the sandy hook perpetrator.
Progress for progress’ sake is an incredibly dumb concept. The old “well we have to do something” trope. Funny how those “somethings” always end up depriving us gun folk of our rights.
Any “reasonable” gun control is just another side-channel attack on us. Ratchet up the restrictions, make it harder for people to buy guns, less people buy guns, less gun owners to protest the next round of BS. (Great TTAG post on this subject: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/03/robert-farago/gun-rights-under-side-channel-attack/ )
Bottom line: the Obama and his merry band of graboids simply don’t trust Americans with semi-auto rifles, (or any firearm for that matter.) How sick is that? How wrong is that?
As for the President himself and his desire for “progress”, there’s a saying about rolling doughnuts and the moon…
“Unlike Megan’s List, this registry will not be public. Instead, it will be available to law enforcement only.”
If they say so. I don’t buy it. Websites will soon show the gun owners right next to the sex offenders on the same map.
I think the argument that denying would-be killers any predicted satisfaction in knowing everybody will hear about them in the media might do something, if enough big players join in.
At the same time, TTAG doesn’t seem to be the same media we’re talking about. You’re a big blog, but its just not the same as having every TV station showing someone’s face and deeds. It’s also a bit niche – guns and gun rights? Not bland enough, too few talking heads.
Anyway, unless you think setting an example is important enough to shy away from serious discussion, I think TTAG should continue reporting on killers. It wouldn’t be the same if we had to discuss the disarmament campaigns in the context of the massacres by the “ones who shall not be named”. Just seems silly when we I think we pride ourselves on being grown-up here, and not just on guns.
I wouldn’t encourage doing anything to further their notoriety, even on TTAG. So no pictures. There are probably more than enough already put out by the media whores.
And facing the vicious bad guy in person is entirely different from viewing his image on a web page. You don’t have the impact of fearing for your life and safety or that of your companions or loved ones.
Report on them, every relevant factoid from the girl that dumped him as a freshman to the amount of time he spent playing COD, but you can report that with the name redacted and no photo.
Report them. Study the hell out of them, but don’t publicize them as people, only as artifacts for study.
I think its a fine line. For instance Eric Harris and Dylan Keleibold (Columbine) were more popular in school than some might have thought (at least based on my research). I dont personally believe they were trying to make a name for themselves (Kleibold maybe) because they seemed to think than human kind needed to be exterminated. Like we were all a disease. Harris was good at manipulation and both boys had essentially gotten away with previous crimes which does not sound like people trying to make a name for themselves.
All of that said, of course their will be exceptions but aside from clues they leave behind we will never know their true intentions. Are they glorified by the media? Absoloutley but in the big picture they are dead (sans Holmes) so what does it matter if their name is mentioned. They are not around to reap the bennefits.
Odumbass can FOAD.
No.
It’s our mandate to consider the possibilities when it comes to self defense- and like it or not, if you own a gun you may end up facing off against a nutcase like Lanza someday. By discussing the murderer in question, we can collectively learn lessons we can apply against the next son of a bitch .
A picture is worth 1,000 words. Post ’em…
I don’t want to see their faces or know their names. Don’t make them famous. If it were my blog, I’d refer then like this : The Aurora Theater Shooter, and likely chronic masturbater, entered a not guilty plea today. Or, the Sandy Hook School Shooter, and likely chronic bed wetter, was not a member of the NRA but he appears to have attended an NRA gun safety course at some point. People will want to know what they looked like. A brief description should answer most everyone’s questions. Ugly, skinny, white kid. White, male college student with brown hair, dyed orange, Male, asian collage student. etc.
coumo already in talks with 10th mountain division to utilyze federal troops for massive checkpoints coming in the fall. anyone who thinks feds will let you keep your rifles better wtf up. several friends work within ny police depts and one of my cousins once worked as a cuomo bodyguard. these people are dead serious and anyone who fails to comply will see their homes invaded and their weapons seized. not hit the floor fast enough and you could be killed, you certainly will be imprisoned. for those of you wliing to fight back either do so or leave the state if you want to keep your weapons. obama just sent 5 billion directly to ny state police to gear up with armored personnel carriers, helicopters, body armor, weapons and ammo, for coming assault. all you talkers of major crap on these sites should understand your comments are being recorded and your backgrounds run thru federal databases. those of you found owning these weapons can expect visits by the fall. like i said, prepare to fight or leave, those are your only options if you refuse to comply, otherwise they will kick down your door and kill everyone inside if they have to.
Yes, Nikon makes rifle scopes. I can only think of one optical product they do not make (and I suspect that even if they didn’t make it they had several hands in making the Hubble telescope and its military brothers.) I have never had a bad Nikon product. All of them have delivered better performance than advertised. My only complaint is that I can’t afford more of them.
In a perfect world, I’d have to agree with those that want the fu@@tards’ pics and info banned. Simple fact: they want the notoriety; this is a, if not the, motivator for their Evil deeds.
However, it isn’t a perfect world; someone, more than likely a gun-crises exploiter, will publish it on the Intarweb, and once that bell is rung….it’s amazing sex crime victims aren’t posted more than they are.
So, while it’s clear that posting their pics/info only perpetuates spree killers, not posting that info here won’t really matter.
On our blog, we refer to them by name, but don’t usually include pics. Internal decision more than anything else.
Don’t post their pictures. You’re giving the fuckers what they want and encouraging copycats.
This is ridiculous .
I am not a stupid person, but that bill is just to hard for me to follow.
At about section 12 my brain shut down from all the legalese and filler.
There is no way our governor read it in full.
Predicting this guy holds on and the lefties retain control of the Colorado legislature next year. Now if someone tried to take the good peoples pot away, there might be some consequences.
What’s with you idiots?
I, like many others, voted to legalize pot.
No, I don’t smoke it.
It’s government interference in something that is mostly harmless.
But I’m sure your god talks to you and tells you how right you are about everything, right?
Again, the repubs will put up some religious asshole, like you most likely, and wonder why they don’t win.
Funny how a word can have so many meanings. Progress used to mean something good, generally. Very different in the leftist lexicon. Examples:
Equality For All – Preferential treatment for those I like.
Intolerant – One who doesn’t agree with me.
Common Sense – What I feel despite all reasoning.
Justice For All – Justice for those I agree with.
President – King
Government – Overlords
And, of course:
Progress – Steps taken away from the pesky Constitution.
So, no thank you, Tyrant in Chief. We’ve had enough “progress.” American subjects may want more, but American citizens want you to FOAD.
I have little to no faith in any sort of due governmental or lawful process. That said, I still hope this works.
I agree, I just want to see some progress on nationwide constitutional carry and the repeal of the NFA.
Jim Carrey isn’t fit to be a pimple on Charlton Heston’s ass.
7200 signatures seems like an incredibly easy number to get. Fund a few events with free music and BBQ and you’re done.
Am I the only one bothered by the fact that they are hinting at the fact that putting “prefer not to awnser” on gender and self description is indicatory of mass shooter like behavior? Next thing you know that poor transexual kid in college that is still trying to figure out who the are or the person that doesnt want to describe themselves will either find themselves in a chat with the police or some administators? Possibly with punishment involved?
the answer to that question depends on what you think is more likely to occur…
1. by giving them the notoriety they were willing to pay ANY cost to obtain the media ends up fueling some other guy’s twisted ego somewhere else who might try to “beat the high score”, OR
2. you cause people to “stare evil in the face” and (hopefully) convince them to start taking responsibility for their own safety.
which of those options you think is more likely will determine the answer to that question. personally i believe the first option to be the most likely, so i plant myself firmly in the “do not post” camp.
At least some of the sheriffs still know which side is up:
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_22936945/colorado-sheriffs-protest-president-obamas-denver-visit
Post them.
We need to remember the murderous freaks. We need also to post the photos alongside the legislative freaks who are trying to remove our ability to defend ourselves from murderous freaks. Look at the eyes of any of them. I can’t tell the difference, both sets sold their souls. Toss in a few media freaks for good measure.
he looks like a pos weasel.
Carey lacks substance as a adolescent human being ( well I think it’s human)….maybe a 14 year adolescent, because I know 6 year olds that are more mature than him. He is disturbing… creepily so…..a highlight of one of his movies…… a spitting contest, REALLY! and why are we allowing this j-@ss from Canada to even have a voice….. oh that’s right because we’ve allowed ourselves to become dumbed down.
Jeez I wonder if anyone would even understand Ben Hur today?
Um, where are the children?
Buried as my opinion may be amongst the previous posts, and likely not to be seen by more than a few with much time on their hands, I — as a professional news photographer for over three decades — need to point out that ANY images culled, edited or selected by ANY medium are going to reflect the position of the publisher. Period.
Pics published from the same event or about the same subject — whether by MSNBC or Brietbart — will reflect the POV of the publisher, including TTAG.
This article is B.S. FLAME DELETED
Most of the people who loose items they have consigned never make an attempt to get them back. Just because a FFL records your firearm in its log book, doesn’t make it their property. Should folks never take their firearms to gunsmiths either?
Possession is not 9/10ths of the law.
Voting results of CT Senate on Draconian Gun Control Law:
http://wr2a.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/connecticut-senate-passes-draconian-gun-control-legislation-the-list/
Now onto the House.
Well, I have read all the comments, but I still hold the opinion I expressed in the other thread, I believe many spree killers are motivated by the thought of notoriety and seek out gun-free zones to ensure the number of kills is sufficient to get the coverage they desire.
We can certainly study them without pictures or names. Simply refer to them by the incident — Sandy Hook psychopath/degenerate.
I believe the ancient Roman punishment of Damnatio memoriae, the removal of every record of their existence by name right down to the birth certificate would have been a disincentive for many of them.
Only my opinion, and I could be wrong.
Could not make it though more than a few seconds. Not sure what was more barf worthy the president or the gum smacking ewe.
… speechless …
Shawneequa – Official Obama news correspondent. Nice!
i am having a difficult time telling if she is being serious or not.
http://nation.foxnews.com/barack-obama/2013/04/03/mark-levin-fumes-after-obama-admits-he-feels-constrained-constitution
I recall a scifi author who mentioned a way to reduce infamy driven violence- make the perpetrator an Unperson. All references to them are redacted to a descriptive yet lame tag. “Nutjob #4” or some such.
It’s not so much discussions like TTAG as it is mainstream media in the days after an incident. Given our constitutional limits on restricting free speech, I’d hazard a guess that the only way to get the TV news media to stop using ratings-boosting phrases like “most dead in a spree killing” & publishing early, incorrect reports would be manifold lawsuits & criminal charges for praising these madmen. Rational people might not call it praise, but a certain flavor of nut would. Want to screw CNN, etc? 4k suits of various flavors (libel/slander for making up details nobody can possibly know yet, incitement to violence, etc) nationwide, plus more in every country they’re carried in. Bloomberg can provide starting capitol. We’ll call it “Spree-trolling” instead of patent trolling.
Most of these reports from mainstream media mention things like the ‘thousands of rounds’ found in their home, but fail to mention that most of those ‘thousands’ are, say .22lr. Having 2k .22lr is a good supply for a weekend shoot with friends, 2k or rifle/pistol/shotgun can be used in a few weekends in a caliber used for a competitive sport.
The gun control laws we need:
1. You shall not murder. Exodus 20:13 (NIV)
2. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The Second Amendment.
3. If someone tries to kill you, you kill him right back. Captain Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly.
Robert…you sir owe me eight minutes and 39 seconds of my life back. That actually hurt….bad.
All I know is that if you resort to mocking a dead man you’ve proved you’re scum that knows your argument is weak.
And she’s the same nitwit who told this senior citizen that he’d be “dead anyway” if someone broke into his home armed with “high-capacity” magazines:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/03/co_dem_rep_tells_senior_citizen_youd_probably_be_dead_anyway.html
We MUST stop electing nincompoops to public office.
I think the way our people often use the word “slave” is exceptionally ignorant.
Slavery is a very real thing today in the world. There are people traded as property and compelled upon pain of torture and death to labor until they die anyway. Some first world regulation or law, no matter how stupid, does not give you slave status. To equate the two is irrational. Nothing looks more out of touch than someone throwing around a heavy term in a way that suggests they don’t understand the obvious and current real world context of. You wouldn’t call them holocaust states. You wouldn’t claim equality of experience between someone who can’t put more then 10 rounds in a magazine to someone who was burned in a Nazi concentration camp.
The beginning of these spree killer articles should have a list of the victim names and their pictures.
Bury the killer’s name and pic at the bottom.