How A Brazilian Gun Company Became An Overnight Market Leader In The U.S. forbes.com proclaims. You might say the article is a puff piece, but I couldn’t possibly comment. Except to say that yes, it is extremely positive about the Brazilian company’s fortunes. Well, forthcoming fortunes. Like this . . .
Forjas Taurus had won a lot of American consumers after establishing a facility in Miami, but by 2013 it had once again fallen out of touch with what American gun owners want. Also, perhaps to catch up to a surging marketplace, Forjas Taurus had rushed products to the market and ended up with manufacturing issues that were affecting the quality of its guns.
This changed earlier this year when Forjas Taurus and Taurus Holdings, Inc. were bought by Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos (CBC), also headquartered in Brazil. CBC’s ammunition brands include Magtech, Sellier & Bellot (S&B), and MEN. CBC’s stepped in to fix the problems, but they didn’t just get heavy handed about steering its U.S. division back to prosperity; they came in with a stick and cleaned out management and then brought in an experienced American gun-guy, Anthony Acitelli, to be president and CEO. Acitelli has over 20 years of experience in the U.S. firearms industry. He was previously a senior vice president of sales at Colt. He also led the sales and marketing teams and eventually ran the Accessories Division at ATK’s Sporting Group (now known as Vista Outdoor, which has over 30 consumer brands).
I’ve never met Acitelli. I certainly hope he’s the right man for the job at Taurus. Here’s his take:
“One of the first things we did was to hire—and we are still hiring—an engineering team from the American market. We need gun guys. We need engineers who know how to innovate for this robust American market.
“As we do that, we also had to get our quality up and to reposition our products,” said Acitelli. “Basically, our pistols weren’t selling. I looked at the numbers and realized we could either do a huge ad buy as we got our quality-control back in order, and thereby announce we were back, or we could instead spend that money by reducing the prices on our pistols and thereby let the gun-shop owners and firearms enthusiasts around the country tell our story. We chose the later path.
Before asking TTAG readers to tell their story of the Taurus of today, I’d like to state for the record that I had every faith in former CEO Mark Kresser’s abilities to turn Taurus around. Kresser focused on two main areas: quality control and customer service. Both of which improved measurably under his leadership. If Taurus is on the right track, Mark Kresser deserves some credit. If it isn’t . . .
Is it? Is Taurus delivering on quality and customer service? What’s been your experience with their guns and customer service? Good, bad or indifferent? And what could they do better to earn your business in the future? As for Forbes’ glowing assessment, the market doesn’t seem to agree. As Forbes points out Forjas Taurus’ stock price is down 72.19% this year (as of November 19). Buy or sell?
My Millennium Pro G2 in 9mm has never given me any problems. About 1,400 rounds.
Taurus is the Hi Point of the F150 crowd.
Any gun company who lets the consumer do the quality control should be avoided like the plague.
If the shoe fits…..
http://bearingarms.com/massive-taurus-safety-settlement-include-100000-pistols/
They didn’t say they were letting the consumers do their quality control as they’ve already addressed that after the recall..they are letting them do the ADVERTISING for now and putting that money into hiring better people…along with engineering and quality control.
Hiring?
How about hired? Seems Taurus is talking in future tense but their current crop of pistols were build in past and present tense.
Who cares where the money will be going when amateurs today was manufactured without said engineers and QA workers.
Wake me when they actually change. Better than before is a pretty low bar, even for Taurus.
“the F150 Crowd”? WTF does that mean? Are you aware of the fact that the F series truck is the second best selling car in the entire world? It’s still the most popular truck in the U.S. and has been for 38 years. For 33 years it was the best selling car in the U.S., period. SO, if you are saying that the largest possible group of single-model car buyers in the nation with the highest per capita firearms ownership rate feels the same about Taurus as they do about Hi-Point, I’d say you’re standing on egregiously presumptuous ground. For what it’s worth, Taurus appears in the top 5 on most top X handguns sold lists all over a reasonable google search. In fact, the number 2 handgun purchased on gunbroker.com in 2015, was a Taurus(PT111 G2, reviewed quite will by this very website); right behind a KELTEC.
HiPoint hits the top 10 on more than a few. At least one list touted the HiPoint as “widely known for its durability”. There is a video of some fellers who attempted to destroy one and were thwarted by the pistol at almost every effort.
SO, I don’t know what you are trying to say with your “F150 crowd” comment but it seems as though you are disparaging a very large group of people. Furthermore, if a reasonably priced product that is reasonably reliable is what a reasonably free market tends toward, then it is indeed a reasonable purchase.
No, I don’t own an F150, ( I own a ’94 Ranger that I bought in ’96 and has cost a grand total of $7K to drive 200K miles) but I do own 2 Tauri, both have been flawless, more reliable in fact, than my Ford.
Again, what are you trying to say?
Speculation only, but my first impression is that it is viewed as a cheap as possible, functional option that provides mass appeal to those who are purchasing a tool rather than looking for an econobox (the Hi Point of the Hi Point crowd) or a sports car (Sig?) or luxury car (take your pick) etc.
When you think about all the doodads that Ford has been pushing out, and consider the Curve in all its wacky appeal, I think the analogy works even better.
lighten up bearboy…
Taurus lost me with the craptastic PT709 and I don’t have any plans to go back.
My 709 was a reliable, straight-shooter; but for every couple of positive reports I hear, there’s a supremely negative experience to match. I ended up selling mine when I found my ‘ol Model 39 could be carried just as invisibly.
TL/DR: I don’t really miss mine, but it certainly never let me down.
I had one of their smallish polymer .45s about ten years ago. The magazine would drop out when you fired it! Sent it back to the factory and they were unable to fix it. I do hope their recent efforts have helped, as they seem to have some good ideas.
I had the same issue w/ my Remmy 1911 R1 Enhanced. The problem? Me gripping it wrong and hitting the mag release. I know, but I was a noob.
Never owned a Taurus firearm and never will.
Why not?
I don’t know The Pontificator’s reason but my reasons are reading way more negative reviews than positive ones and I have a very specific taste in firearms that Taurus does not address nor will they ever so I see no reason to give them my time or money. They make nothing I am interested in buying even if they were a good quality manufacturer.
On this page I notice the positive comments outweighing the negatives by about 2 to 1.
Perhaps the number of negatives you come upon depend largely upon which magazines you choose to read?
You are aware that most magazine’s views are largely bought and paid for by their advertising, yes? And that at this time of the year most gather their staff together to call their pick for ‘product of the year’, based upon which company paid them the most?
As far as revolvers go, Rugers are reliable and sturdy workhorses and their customer service is excellent if you ever need it. For those specific model types that Ruger doesn’t make, Smith and Wesson has solid offerings. Why would I take a chance with Taurus when they don’t have anything unique I want that the others can’t do? If Taurus comes out with something innovative I must have that the others don’t do, I might be willing to reconsider. I won’t hold my breath. I don’t begrudge the Taurus fans, though, if they are happy with them.
Regarding semi-autos, there are so many proven options out there that I don’t feel the need to take a chance on a Taurus.
I can get a Taurus with a lifetime warranty for about 2/3 the price of a Ruger or a Smith. They make damn good revolvers.
Having said that, I wouldn’t touch one of their semi autos if Scarlett Johansson was handing them out for free, naked.
Wolf: I’ve had a Taurus PT 92(the beretta 9mm copy with the frame mounted safety) since the mid 1980s and have yet to have a failure of any kind. Couple thousand rounds by now at least. OFC they were different back then. Those were the days when S&W would no longer warranty their guns for life, so Taurus started the lifetime warranty, which lasted until they decided to cheapen their guns to the max also. About then Smith revamped its quality too, but upward. Smith had trouble selling product when it wouldn’t even work straight from the factory.
You might want to check out this vid about a real gunsmith doing an action job on a 686. The punch line is the cylinder stop and the hammer were both out of spec and when the action job was done the gun would no longer function. Factories now tend to overcome their lack of fit and internal tool marks by just upping the spring pressure and forcing things. It’s why they feel so much like a POS.
I have no Tauri, but own a Rossi 461 (by Taurus) and a Heritage Rough Rider (by Taurus). Both are ok for budget guns. Never had any trouble with either (but have not shot them much).
My favorite handgun in my possession is a 1987 taurus .357 revolver. The trigger is great and it is spot on accurate.
I have absolutely no trigger time on a taurus semi. But I’ve owned and used taurus revolvers bought new and used and had nothing but good to say about them.
I too am a long time owner of several Taurus wheel guns that have served me very well.
Add me to the list. My Taurus .357 has a trigger as good as my S&W. Accurate as well. No problems.
Me as well. Had a 605 in .357. Only reason I sold it was so I could buy a Glock 26.
I’m looking to pick up another one, preferably used so I can drop 200 or so on it.
This is all good to read. The Taurus 608 looks pretty cool to me (8 rounds of .357? Yes please!), but I’m leery because of the spotty reputation of Taurus products.
They said a few years ago that they were determined to leave that image in the past, so here’s hoping they’re succeeding.
Taurus has been building revolvers for 70 years and at one point had the benefit of shared IP and Engineering with Smith & Wesson. (both were part of the same parent company in the 1970’s.) The few I’ve had opportunity to shoot, I liked.
Still… not terribly interested in buying any of their products, based largely on warnings like this comment from TTAG’s own RF:
Taurus customer service is already a bit, uh, challenging. With the possibility of tens of thousands of guns heading back to the company, we doubt the situation will get any better in the days and months to come. You have been warned.
That seems to be a common theme in reviews- awful customer service. Coupled with the recall and drop-fire concerns, well…there are other choices.
I feel that the only folks that talk about taurus are the ones that “had” one. i swing back and forth between getting one, if i could find an OSS for a decent price i’d have it in the safe before my wallet closed.
I’m in the had camp. Not because it was bad gun (wheelgun in .44, can’t remember the model), but because, well, we were all young once. Some of us, not that long ago. I bought it, and sold it a few weeks later. i had a nasty habit of buying a new gun every other month, but selling the old the to fund the new. I’m not in the habit of selling guns anymore so much. I did sell a couple of what I would consider “crap” guns, I won’t name names, so I could buy my XDm. No regrets.
My only experience with Taurus is: gleefully fondling a PT-1911 SS @ LGS. 10/10 would buy. I ended up taking a Rem R1 Enhanced in a even trade for a Yugo 59/66 and 1120 crate of ammo during the last AWB scare.
My pops has got a PT1911. The sumbitch runs better than my RIA ever did. Eats every damn thing you can throw at it and asks, “that all ya got?” It’s a fantastic shooter, and tack driver accurate to boot. i want it off him, but he ain’t budging. He’s also not in the habit of selling his guns.
I really like my stainless tracker in .44 mag. It’s a great shooter that takes serious abuse.
I think the larger wheelguns from taurus are worth the money. Never heard of the large frames blowing up or having indexing issues.
good news/bad news…
A buddy of mine had a .44 mag Tracker blow the barrel off.
He only shot factory ammo.
Nothing abusive in the way he shot or cared for his gun.
Taurus replaced it immed thru his point of purchase LGS.
No issues w second Tracker so far.
And, yes, he knows he’s a lucky man.
Like the revolvers, not the semi-autos.
My only problem with their customer service is the hour hold time on their phone line
I’ve owned quite a few Taurus revolvers and they have all broken. I never buy them with serious intentions, but just as fun guns that are often impulse purchases, they make some unique stuff, nothing worth trusting your life to. Taurus is probably seeing an upswing due to the massive amounts of new gun owners and the general affordability of the brand.
I had a Model 66 that locked up after firing a few cylinders. I sent it to Taurus “Warranty Repair” (about $50 worth of shipping and insurance). I got it back in about 10 days…with a barrel that was canted to the 1 o’clock position. I had a local gunsmith fix it, and traded it for a Smith Model 60 before I even left the shop. If I hadn’t been able to trade it, I was going to use it for target practice before sending it back to Taurus with instructions for them to keep it.
I won’t soon buy another Taurus. QC issues, I can forgive. However, I expect the gun to be right after they “repair” it.
All Taurus products I’ve encountered have been run-thru with some sort of cosmoline that takes~ 2 cans of Remington Action Cleaner to rid, but that’s ok. The Judge is typically awesome and a PT1911 lost in a fire @ sea had no troubles, even was fun to upgrade but didn’t need it.
I’ve fired a few of their revolvers and they worked well and were fun to shoot. My dad has a little .38 Taurus snubbie. It’s not accurate beyond bad breath distances, but it’s enough to hit a person at self defense distances. I told my mom she should keep that thing handy in the house, but she doesn’t, yet. I’m working on it.
I can’t speak to the customer service, but I have owned a few now (Since I’m a cheapskate), and shot several others.
Model 85CH circa 92ish
New stainless TCP purchased 2013
Rossi 461 .357 mag 4″ barrel bought used made this century.
None have given me problems, but only one is on my never sell list. Of course, part of the reason for that is I couldn’t get any money for a very used TCP. (Over a 1000 rounds through mine now.)
I had a PT709 a couple of years ago that felt kind of cheap but functioned perfectly. Their past reputation for poor customer service might take a while to disappear down the memory hole.
Taurus pistols are pretty cheap and you get what you pay for. Sometimes cheap is fine, sometimes not.
There’s a difference to me between cheap and inexpensive. A gun can be inexpensive but still of relatively good quality, but a cheap gun is just that, cheap.
Geographical vernacular, to many people cheap and inexpensive are interchangeable and I believe that’s what the previous poster was getting at.
Taurus has had a long history of poor quality control. I saw several video’s not to long ago showing one of the police automatics going off if you just shook it. A friend of mine had a .22 rim-fire magazine come apart on him on a brand new gun. And there is the latest recall on the new curve pistol. Below is an article on a 39 million dollar settlement on pistols that went off when dropped and would fire even with the safety engaged. This was a great disappointment to me because there were several models of hide out guns I was considering buying that had many features I liked and not found on some of Taurus’s competitors guns. After seeing the recalls I passed on trusting Taurus on any model gun.
http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/guns/taurus-agrees-to-39-million-settlement-in-defective-pistol-case/
Not to just beat up on Taurus, but a friend of mine spent $3,000 on a Sako tacticool rifle and the magazine fell out of the gun on the first shot. I laughed so hard tears came to my eyes and I went right on shooting my ancient 98 Mauser rifle which shot better groups and was 100 per cent reliable and was made out of old fashioned high quality forgings something practically extinct in todays sea of cast iron and plasticky trash being vomited out today by the gun industry.
Today the firearms industry in general realizes that the market is so big that they do not care if they ever get a repeat customer because there is always a new sucker who will buy their junk and get stung doing it. That is why you see guns with MIM castings, plasticky parts and stamped sheet metal parts. They regard their customers as Morons and unfortunately most customers do not do any research before they buy so it is not to far from the truth. As you may have guessed I buy very few modern made guns sticking to the old fashioned blued and forged masterpiece works of art that today are as extinct as the Dodo Bird.
Several years ago in “Gun Week” magazine a fellow started a company making top quality 1911 handguns. He was bought out by a “slick” corporation and promised he could stay on as manager. In the first meeting they asked him “how can we cheapen this gun” to make more money. The former owner got up out of his chair , quit on the spot and walked out the door. I guess there are some “honorable people” still living in todays world but not many.
What amazes me is that there are so many “fools” out there that even when they get ripped off they go on making a million excuses for the very people who ripped them off. I will never understand this if live to be 100 years old. I guess its called “Conservatism”.
I had one of the recalled PT111s, sent it back and am waiting for its replacement to arrive. Liked the PT111 before I sent it back and hope the new one is even better.
I avoided Taurus for many years because of their reputation. However, after I traded my also often bashed Hi-Point for a 70s era Taurus 38 Special revolver, I decided to try one because it was good. The TCP I bought had an early issue that Taurus fixed without argument and it is a keeper. I would not hesitate to buy another.
PT111 G2 replaced my Sig P938 as my EDC. no regrets except I miss my tritium sights
Picked up a PT111 G2 12/31/15. $209 after rebate. Free NRA membership. Lifetime warranty. Could not pass it up. Besides, TTAG gave it a positive write up. Only time will tell..
I am a glock guy. When I met my wife and got her into shooting, she didn’t care for my glocks grip angle. I told her we could get her any gun she wanted. We started with a PT709. Repeated failures right out of the box. Trips to and from Taurus, gun sold. Next TCP 380. Same exact process. Two trips back to factory, gun sold. Her EDC now is a Sig 238 or 938. In some cases, you do get what you pay for. Having said that. I personally know quite a few people who carry their Taurus guns every day and love them. I had two brand new Sig Sauer fail on me right out of the box and I received terrible customer service from Sig. P320 and 1911. I will never own another one.
Their revolvers work fine for me…but my Smiths are much smoother.
Their revolvers still suck. However, the PT111 Millennium G2’s have been flying off the shelves and every customer seems to be happy with them. We’ve had no complaints about them at my shop.
Thoughts on Taurus:
1. Had a horrible reputation for QC and customer service. This reputation seems to have improved, but it is still subpar.
2. As others have noted the semiautos seem to have more issues than the revolvers.
3. The Taurus guns that have gotten the most print over the last several years (the curve, the judge, the view) have leveraged gimmicks rather than excellence in engineering or truly value adding improvements. They are fun to talk about, but nothing I would prefer to have on me in a gun fight.
4. I considered a TCP once for a pocket gun. I felt like it had considerably more recoil than its competitors and wanted nothing to do with it, but I realize that others think the TCP is excellent.
5. At the end of the day Smith, Ruger, Beretta, and Kahr all offer products that are at least as good at similar price points and have better QC and customer service. Either my wife or I have purchased from all of these manufacturers and we have been pleased with what we have gotten for the money. Why buy a Taurus when you could buy a similar gun at a similar price from a better manufacturer?
I have not been able to find a Smith or Ruger anywhere the price point of the Taurus. I would prefer them but not at the price difference. The LCP was 50% more than my TCP.
I just did a quick check at Bud’s. Couldn’t find a regular LCP in stock, but I did turn up:
TCP: $299
Kahr CW 380: $321
S&W Bodyguard: $311
Kentucky Gun Co has a gold coated LCP for $228.
And Cabelas was selling TCP’s for 169 last month. $299 for a TCP is a CRIME price. Going for less than $200 on Gunbroker…
The TCP has a MSRP of just over $250. I paid $199 NOT on sale and I have seen them for $159.
Good grief:
1. I was trying to provide an apples to apples comparison, not provide the best possible price for a gun I have no interest in.
2. One listing on gunbroker is a poor way to define the market price for a gun. There were many more listings at $279. I bought a Beretta Nano NIB from my LGS for $250 a year and a half ago. The market price was north of $300. I got a good deal. That deal did not redefine the overall market price.
3. If we are going by the lowest price available on gunbroker, I see multiple LCPs at $185. My overarching point stands: I can get similar products for similar prices from more reputable producers.
Yeah good grief Special K-the TCP is better than the LCP. I own no stock in either. List price means nothing-see what is actually selling. Sportsmans Supply sells everything without reserve on GB. I tried out both little guns and the last round stop and great trigger sold me on Taurus.
Nothing in your reply contradicts a single point that I made. Why even bother to reply? I am glad you like your TCP, I personally don’t care for the gun.
“or we could instead spend that money by reducing the prices on our pistols and thereby let the gun-shop owners and firearms enthusiasts around the country tell our story. We chose the later path.”
I wonder if this was his advice back at Colt, because if so, it seems that Colt didn’t follow it. I wouldn’t call being vice president of a company now in bankruptcy for the umphteenth time a good thing. The guy who stepped in and SAVED a company, maybe. I don’t think a record of failure qualifies one for much of anything. Lets hope for better than another Colt, this time around.
And lets not forget that Taurus made its bones in the USA, back in the 1980s when S&W had the same ‘quality control'(translated out of corporatspeak, read; “we got so damn cheap our shit doesn’t function any more…”) issues, so Taurus decided to offer a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser, thus forcing Smith to later do also, playing “catch up”.
I usually have a TCP in a pocket holster at work as deep concealment given my employer’s weapon prohibition policy. Work in financial services industry and I know how upset and irrational some may get when it involves their money. My boss and compliance officer are aware of my choice, though, and support my decision. I also toss it in my pocket when I make short jaunts to the store or I am attending events where firearms are not welcome.
I had a magazine that was out of spec causing FTFs and Taurus fixed it and sent back within a week and a half. After that, zero problems and no complaints. Very smooth process and I guess I lucked out.
My first gun was a Taurus Tracker in .357Mag in 2008. I sold it to a co-worker in 2012 because I didn’t care for the ported barrel and wanted to be able to run shotshells through it. But there was nothing wrong with the gun itself despite running a fair number of pretty hot hand-loads through that sucker. My co-worker still enjoys shooting it and has had no issues. I really liked the seven-shot capacity it had, but I like the robustness and customer support of the GP100 that replaced it better
I picked up a Taurus Public Defender for a good price back in 2011, but I didn’t see a need to stock up on 45LC, and I hated shooting .410 out of it due to recoil and having to use a dowel to get the shells out. I learned later to use smooth shelled loads in it, but I went ahead and sold it to a(nother) co-worker since most of what I wanted it for was snakes, and I can carry shotshells in the afore-mentioned GP100 and other miscellaneous revolvers. However, now I wish I still had it based on the insane custom loads people have come up with for the Judge/Governor platforms, like the Lehigh Max Expansion. Hoyl carp….those things are like high-speed metal origami cranes spinning through red jello.
Based on what I’ve read and heard from fellow range-members, I’m not willing to be a guinea pig for any more Brazilian hardware. I’ve had good luck so far with them functionally, so the law of averages may not be in my favor. Besides, nothing they’ve produced of late really grab my attention (i.e., they don’t have anything with CZ written them anywhere).
4 Taurus’ with zero issues(one a used 85 revolver). Luck? Nope-I was an old noob. OCD about getting everything to run right. Next gun will more than likely be a Brazilian beauty.(financially challenged for awhile). And a free NRA membership. I may get another TCP made in “Muricah! too. Another point to remember is the collapsing REAL(as well as Brazil)…
Got rid of my Millennium PT-145. Three different magazines wouldn’t feed correctly. Purchased a Springfield XDM compact 45 acp and haven’t had a single issue through countless bangs. It is boringly dependable. Even dremeled my own spacer for an XD compact 10 rd. magazine for carry. My buddy has a PT-111 G2 that’s been reliable for him. I don’t trust Taurus though.
My Taurus collection
Judge (5 yrs) – Great, love that gun.
PT1911 (4 mos) – jury is still out with hollow points, but love it with hand loads and fmjs.
Rossi R92 45LC – on the way!?
My take on Taurus- I hate and avoid polymer pistols. A Taurus revolver is as good as they come. I’ve heard good things about their beretta 92 clone.
Did you seriously just say their revolvers are as good as they come? Have you ever even held or fired a Ruger/SW/Colt Python/Dan Wesson/Etc etc etc? They might work as often as they don’t (that’s as close to nice as I can say about them) but saying they are anywhere near the quality of the afore mentioned wheel guns is the height of hyperbole.
WOW, I had a Dan Wesson and it was a POS, cylinder timing went out early on, hammer spur broke while cocking it, I had interchangeable barrels and the 4incher would cause the revolver to spit lead. I had a Python whose backstrap broke (Colt was going thru a rough CQ patch), I have several bad Rugers due to “casting irregulararities”. Just being a big name doesn’t meant they don’t have their share of problems.
I owned 2 Taurus pistols 20 years ago and they both broke to the point of being inoperable. Thankfully they broke on the range and not during a DGU. I dont care what they have done in the past 20 years. I will never own a 3rd Taurus pistol.
I have a Raging Bull 8inch barreled .44mag and a PT1911. So the Raging Bull was bought back in 09. It was awesome. Until the cylinder starting lockig up after about 10 rounds going downrange. Sent it back to Taurus and they sent it back a month later with a horrible cylinder gap and the thing still locks up after about 10 rounds. Thanks Taurus. I really like this huge gap that you put there for no reason. As for the 1911. I bought that last year. Geez. The first one came and the slide serrations were misaligned if you compared them to both sides. Misaligned by like half an inch! So of course, I refused the transfer and another was sent out. Good thing I know how to sandblast/beadblast and refinish firearms. This was a stainless steel 1911. It had metal burrs everywhere. I decided to accept it and just remove the burrs and refinish the firearm. I had to sandblast it with aluminum oxide and then glass bead blast it to give it back the satin sheen finish it originally came with. It looks better now after I worked it than it did when I got it. I lost my faith in Taurus. It seems like they have a bunch of blind monkeys that work at the factory building these things. No one looks at these firearms when they leave the assembly line? Two 1911’s back to back had issues. And the repair facility in Miami for my Raging Bull is a joke. I swear, the cylinder gap is .016. They did that. And they wrote me a letter saying it was still inspection and that’s what they had to do in order to keep it from binding up. Since when did revolvers need .016 gaps? I’m gonna fix it myself since I don’t trust the monkeys in Florida either anymore.
The only guns that Taurus/Rossi makes that interest me at all is the convertible .22LR/.22Mag Tracker and the M92 lever rifle in .45 Colt.
Other than that, there are no other guns Taurus makes that I want. I like that theyre innovative and produce different stuff, not just copying off others to find a share of the market like some companies do. If they came out with an LC9 sized gun that shoots 7.62×25 Tokarev, I’d be all over it. If they made a 5 shot, 2.5″ barrel revolver in .45 Colt, I’d be all over that too.
Taurus’ current selection of guns really don’t interest me because if I want a large frame duty handgun, I’d rather buy a Glock or Springfield. If I wanted a Judge, I’d rather get a SW Governor. Are Taurus’ guns the best? No. Are they good guns? Yes, and for those that don’t want to spend an extra $200 or can’t, then Taurus will do them well.
For me tho, if Taurus doesn’t make something that no one else does, then I’m not interested.
How about the same in .44 Special?
How about a 5 shot, 3″ barrel revolver in .44 Special or .45 Colt?
no. .44 Special is not as good as .45 Colt.
Ballistics are similar to the point of being “close enough”.
Isn’t Rossi a Taurus owned company, or subsidiary or something? Wonder how closely they’re tied.
I don’t own any Taurus stuff, but I own a couple of Rossi lever actions that are majorly fun. Never a problem with ’em in a couple thousand rounds between them
I believe Taurus manufactures certain guns for Rossi, but they are not the same company.
It seems to vary widely depending on what exact gun we’re talking about. You see lots of good reviews for TCP and G2, for example.
My tauri, a tcp, a pt1911 and a pt101 have all been boring reliable. I paid so little for them that I kept waiting for them to crap out. I now realize that they are going to last and continue to perform. The only thing I don’t like is that other gun guys pooh-pooh them. Honestly, it’s nice to have stuff that other people recognize as quality. Despite that, these guns are really quite nice.
I purchased a Taurus PT140 Millenium Pro about 6 years ago. I really liked it. The only reason I parted with it is because I wanted a full size pistol. I put well over 1,000 rounds through it without a hitch. It did tend to shoot low so I returned it to Taurus. They installed a lower front sight and promptly returned it to me … along with the target that they used for test firing to show that it was shooting on target. Their service was prompt and painless.
About three years ago, my father purchased a Taurus 1911 pistol. It looks and shoots great.
And about two years ago, my father purchased a Taurus Raging Bull revolver with an 8-inch ported barrel in .44 Magnum. I LOVE that revolver. It has the finest single-action trigger on any firearm that I have ever fired. And its double action trigger is outstanding.
So, the last three Taurus purchases in my immediate circle have been very positive experiences. I would not hesitate to purchase another firearm from them. In fact, if I somehow come into an extra $600 in the next several months, I am extremely tempted to purchase a Taurus 608 revolver … it is an 8-shot (yes, the cylinder holds 8 rounds!) .357 Magnum with 6 1/2 inch ported barrel. While I am a huge .44 Magnum fanboy, I have to imagine that 8 rounds of .357 Magnum coming out of a 6 1/2 barrel should be adequate for most attacks, assuming proper ammunition selection of course!
I would agree that Taurus quality varies widely bases on the model of the gun. All of there G2 guns perform better than G1 guns.
It is neither fair nor accurate to compare the bad guns they put out 20 years ago to today. Would you not purchase an AR15 because of the numerous issues it had when first built ?
Sell. Have an 85ul revolver with very poor machining, which causes a number of cycling and trigger problems. Was never able to get a customer service rep on the phone after three lengthy tries, just waiting on hold. I would sell it but its worth nearly nothing. Have no interest in ever purchasing another Taurus product
Have you used the online chat feature? It worked very well for me.
You have a revolver with machining so poor as to cause “a number of cycling and trigger problems”?
Sorry, unless I see a picture, or at least a detailed description of how tool marks can somehow cause “cycling” problems in a revolver, I’ll just have to call this B. S.
What, they makE cylinders w/o chambers these days? And how do they get revolvers to “cycle”? What, just rack the SLIDE? 🙂
Geeez….
Like many others here, I own and thoroughly enjoy my PT111 G2. It is my first and only Taurus, and I can’t and won’t speak to any of the company’s other models. But, like I just stated in my first sentence, I couldn’t be happier, and it functions just as well as my other handguns that cost 2, 3, or more times this one.
Only experience was with a 94 stainless I traded to my nephew. No problems with it and he shoots it quite a bit. He has a stainless 85 which works great and I think I might pick one up since I’d like a cheap snubbie.
I own 3 Tauri; an 85 revolver, a PT709, and a PT111 G2. Never a problem with any of them, but I’ve never had a problem with my Sig, S&W, Ruger, Glock, or Tristar pistolas either.
Yet…
Answer: no.
My Judge has been pretty awesome and has been my hiking buddy for a long time.
Now if I can only get my hands on that 3″ Raging Judge that’s been so darn elusive..
Had to replace the mainspring on my 1994 4″ 65 .357 revovler after getting some light strikes. What the heck kind of circus show are they running, where a gun needs a single $5 wear item replaced after 21 years of service? /sarc
No clue on new ones, I wouldnt buy one due to not needing to (for cost or whatever), but I’m pretty fond of my old blue S&W clone.
I’m surprised no one commented on the venerable Taurus PT 92.
I own three of them. Use them for home defense, EDC and target at the range.
They’ve never even stuttered. Build quality looks good to me. Fit/function running at 100% with hundreds of rounds through all three.
Not bad for sub-400 buck guns brand new.
The Pt 92 was the first handgun I ever bought. I’ve put over 4k rounds through it and its been a champ. I definitely recommend it to anyone. I also have a 70’s 38 but it has timing issues.
For me it’s been hit and miss with Taurus I’ve got a model 66 that has never had any issues and gets a lot of use. I’ve also got a model 605 that has been back to the factory twice, each time it came back worse than before.
The 605 was at the range after the last time back from the factory and the transfer bar broke. I ended up just ordering the parts off Numrich and doing the work myself. I ended up breaking every part of the revolver down and doing my own QC on it. After replacing every spring, the hand, transfer bar and polishing up all the contact points I finally have a weapon worth carrying.
A lifetime warranty is very nice but when you you basically roll the dice when you send something in it’s a small comfort.
Respectfully Submitted
I think Taurus is taking some flak from their fans because they’re phasing out blued revolvers in favor of matte black finishes that wear off easily.
Also their new small-frame and compact revolvers have grips held on with roll pins. According to Taurus, removal of the grips voids the warranty and damages the frame. So much for their catalog of aftermarket wood grips (which their CS reps will lie to you and tell you they fit, ask me how I know 😀 ) and for several manufacturers of really nice grips (Altamont, Hogue, eBay).
Today I went shooting with some friends. They had nothing but Taurii. The PT740 ran like a champ. The 9mm SLIM had intermittent issues and my experience is that is had no “grip zone” (i.e.; it was too SLIM). The 22 revolver was so locked up no one could load it!
Combine this with my TCP that went back to the factory and came back with the same issue, I will never buy another Taurus again.
I’ve enjoyed Taurus revolvers, until my most recent experience and getting bamboozled by Mr. Taurus at the NRA convention a few years ago.
No, I’ll never buy another of their products. Their semi-autos have craptastic triggers, but the good news is when the sights don’t fall off, they oftentimes work.
Taurus has come a loooong way in the past few years. Better fit and finish, better customer services. That being said, it’s hard to imagine Taurus competing with S&W or Ruger or Sig. Taurus provides “transitional guns”…a gun you buy to train on or to use while you save up for something better. And there is plenty of money to be made in that market space. They’re better than HiPoint – an admittedly low standard – and they may catch up to Bersa in terms of quality and reliability. But the path for Taurus to building a “keep this forever” firearm is difficult to envision.
Taurus has come a long way? Gee, did you happen to see how many pistol models are subject to the recall this year and yet management denied there were any design defects? How does that give anybody faith that next time they will get it right?
. They’re better than HiPoint
That point is arguable. I know which one I won’t shake when loaded.
Give me a break. Taurus management has been quacking about improvement for the past 3 decades. They basically rely on new uninformed people for replacement customers.
19 People in my concealed carry class and 4 malfunctions. Guess what they ALL had in common…yep you got it they were all Taurus autos. This is not an exaggeration, just what I observed. I hear all the time how “I have never had a problem with my Taurus… best gun I ever…bla bla bla”, but there were 8 taurus guns there and half of them couldn’t fire 50 rounds without a malfunction. Now it was cold(about 35 degrees outside) and all the Taurus’ there were smaller guns and maybe those were factors, but really? I have a Judge and am pretty happy with it (it is a lot of fun) but it is a revolver. I also hear a lot of people like those Taurus 357 trade ins but the only other experience I had with one of their autos was when a good friend got one of their early Beretta rip offs back when that’s pretty much all they had and had to spend 80 bucks for a gunsmith to get it running good enough so he didn’t feel too guilty about selling it to someone (it still wasn’t all that reliable…just better.)
I guess what I’m trying to say is as an answer to your question Is Taurus better than ever? Who cares their autos were never any good so even if they are “Better than ever” that’s not saying much, because they still suck. I think the only reason they sell as many as they do is that they are the cheapest gun that’s not a High Point, and that’s a big selling point for an inexperienced or new shooter. I wish they would just save up another $100 and get a better gun, I sure as hell wouldn’t trust my life to a Taurus.
Bought a PT 111 G2 and TCP in the past year and no issues with either. Well, the 111 doesn’t like hard primered NATO ammo.
Conversely, I have the most feed problems with my Steyr C9-A1. In a mag change, I’ve got a 40% chance of it going wrong. Now, it’s only a range toy. Won’t trust my life to it.
My XDM 3.8 9mm is flawless in every way. Zero problems. Glock reliability at Glock prices. haha
The price difference between a Taurus and a S&W is how many boxes of ammo? Do the math, and spend the extra and have a quality firearm for life.
My impression of Taurus is they make guns for people who can’t afford nice guns. I can afford nice guns so I bought a S & W revolver even though the guy in the store tried to tell me the Taurus was just as good. I bought a Kahr pm9 cor CC and never even looked at the Taurus offerings.
What would Taurus have to do to win me as a customer? They’d literally have to give me their gun and let me try it for free. And I still don’t think I’d keep it because I’ve never owned a gun that failed so I think I’m making good choices. Glock, FN, etc.
I too can afford any gun I want, but refuse to pay more just for a name. I own lots of guns from many manufacturers, including Glock and Taurus. Other than the long trigger pull on the PT111 G2, I bet if you were blindfolded, you couldn’t tell the difference between a Taurus and a Glock. Check out hickok45’s review on the G2 and see what the original Glock fanboy has to say:
I could tell if I shook the Taurus, you might want to stand behind me though.
Haters gonna hate. Shake this one and any Glock all you want and you’ll accomplish nothing save a sore wrist for your efforts. Not that there’s any sane reason to do so, but I bet a good gunsmith could cause just about any striker-fired gun fire if shaken.
Not saying the G2 is the gun that saved the world, but it might save Taurus…
Not to mention that safety is a thing that exists in one’s head, NOT a lever or a switch. Anyone who trusts a lever over his own understanding of the four rules is an ‘accident’ just waiting to happen. I’ve had dozens of Rem700 series rifles over a span of 35 years, and not one UD with any of them, in spite of the flawed safety design. But then, I know and follow the proper procedures, which does NOT include trusting in mechanical devices. Such are prone to failures, and always will be.
If I DID choose to ignore the rules and instead, use my loaded firearm as a wand to direct traffic, and it just mysteriously ‘goes off’, that would be MY FAULT, and NOT the firearms!
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/12/robert-farago/la-sheriff-departments-swap-to-smith-wesson-mp-highlights-inadequate-police-training/
this seems to be true from what i have experienced. A friend bought a judge when it first came out, which would put it around or before 2013, it had a lot of problems. we had to send it back 4 times before they replaced it with a new one. Just about 2 months ago i traded for a NIB Taurus pt1911 stainless. I have no idea when it was manufactured but i haven’t had even one problem from it and am extremely pleased and surprised (sorry taurus) how smooth the action of the slide is. the trigger is not bad at all either. I could do some research, i guess, and find out when it was manufactured but meh. i plan on selling/trading it soon anyways.
Between my wife and I we own 4 with wildly varying degrees of satisfaction.
#1 is a .22 pocket size Beretta knockoff. If kept clean and fed standard Remington ball ammo it works reliably for several magazines. Once it gets dirty it is no more reliably than any other 20 year old pocket .22.
#2 and #3 are PT line striker fired pistols. The smaller one worked very reliably until the disassembly pin broke in half. It ate everything we fed it without issue up until that point. The full sized pistol will rarely feed a full magazine without jamming. Within the first few months a visible crack developed in the slide radiating out from the pin that holds the round in chamber indicator. Both are subject to the earlier safety malfunction recall and the recent recall. Smaller one has now gone back for warranty repair twice, this will be 3 for the full size.
#4 is a 9 round .22 revolver. I can not say enough good about this gun. For the money it has a great trigger, it’s accurate and is everything that could be desired for teaching my children or other new shooters the basics of safety and handgun marksmanship. 100% reliable (as close to it as rimfire ammo can get anyway) so far and using .22WMR as a step between .22LR and larger pistol calibers gives new folks a little more confidence as a baby step in between. The best part though is shooting it at night. The fireball produced by .22WMR when fired from a pistol is breathtaking.
Not sure if i would buy another or not, but I would certainly wait until their manufacturing process had been revamped.
When I worked at the retail level of the firearms industry, Taurus was by far the most commonly warrantied gun we sold, even though they were not even in the top 10 brands we sold. They understand taht the lure of cheapness will always keep them afloat, and thats their niche really. I have more respect for myself and my loved ones than to protect either with something that “usually works” so I can save a few bucks.
Bought a PT145 in the early 2000’s, still one of the smallest ten round packable .45s I have seen, it runs fine and the trigger lightened and smoothed up after several hundred rounds. I heard back then about some frame cracking issues but have never experienced anything.
I have personally owned 3 Taurus handguns. A model 85 revolver, a TCP 738, and a PT111 G2. They all work flawlessly. Never had a problem, never failed to feed, never failed to fire, never failed to eject. I’d bet my life on any one of those three handguns. In addition, I own or have owned a Glock 22, 3 S&W revolvers, a S&W 910, a Rossi revolver, a Colt 1911, Walther PPK, Browning DBA, Charter Arms Bulldog 44, Colt Detective Special, North American Arms 22 Revolver, Ruger Super BlackHawk, Ruger LC9, CZ 27, Sig P226, a couple of Springfields, and an H&K USP. Most were great guns, some were not. I’d still take a Taurus over anything else I’ve owned in a gunfight.
Bought a .40 PT-101 (near copy of a Beretta 92 andbuilt on Beretta equipment) for a great price. It is a superb pistol and a supremely accurate and reliable tack driver with a 17 round capacity. I have thousands of dollars invested in my guns and this one with a light on it is my nightstand gun of choice. Sig SP2022 9mm in my truck,Kahr CW9 9mmin my pocket and a CZ-75B 9mm downstairs. However,this is the only Taurus I trust 100%.
I have well over 1000 rounds through my PT111 G2 without a single issue. I have been able to dial in the sights and now shoot very accurately at self-defense ranges. This was my first SD gun (My first gun was a SR22 I used to learn how to grip, stand, not flinch, etc.), so the trigger did not bother me. I learned trigger discipline on what the experts (both real and self-professed) have called less than an ideal trigger. I think this helps when i shoot other “more refined” triggers. I shoot at a range every couple weeks, and dry fire training 3-5 times a week. My Taurus handles everything I feed it, including steel and brass, ball and hollow point.
I have seen lots of people say that they are ready to bet their lives on the PT111 G2, and I agree, but more importantly, I feel comfortable enough with it as an EDC, that I am betting my children’s lives on it as well.