A question (well, a few) form Colby:
Just ran across your site tonight, and looks like you all are doing a bang-up job. I’m very pro-2nd Amendment, but have only recently started purchasing guns myself. Hoping you pros could give a little insight here to a new enthusiast. My friends and I are all planning to go to our first gun show in a few days and had the same worry about used guns . . .
My understanding of gun show laws is that while you have to show documentation that you live in the state in which you are buying the gun, that’s all the documentation required when buying from another individual. After that, you hand them the cash and they hand you a gun. End of transaction. While I can appreciate the need for privacy some gun owners feel, I worry about what the guns might have been used for previously.
Say, for instance, that a gun’s first owner uses it in a murder, then sells it to buyer #2. I buy it from buyer #2 some years after the crime, and buyer #2 has no idea, so feels no need to make any record of the transaction. Some time later, for some unrelated reason, if my gun was ever examined by the police and found to be the original murder weapon I would obviously want to be able to prove that I wasn’t in possession of the weapon until years after it was involved in a crime. (I realize that this whole situation in fanciful and that possessing a weapon used in a crime isn’t near enough to get any kind of jury verdict unless there’s plenty of other evidence, but just chalk it up to being paranoid)
Is there some kind of way to document the date that I bought it? I mean technically I know that I could get the two of us to write out some kind of receipt and get it notarized, but I doubt a seller would be willing to leave the show and do that, and I assume (maybe wrongly) that there isn’t a notary at these type of events.
Is there anything I can do to protect myself from situations like this? And if there is, is there also some way I could do so unilaterally without the assistance of the seller (though I realize that a seller who wouldn’t be willing to do something might be a red flag to buy a gun from someone else instead)?
The only thing faster than that projectile is the speed at which I achieved full mast while watching the video.
Wow, very well emoted Mr. Pratt. The prior restraint argument needs to be used much more often when you hear about “reasonable restrictions.”
Yes, I worry about my used guns’ previous owners. I worry that they’re sad and lonely without their little friends. I’d like to reach out to the previous owners to let them know that their former pals are being kept well-fed, clean and safe, but it’s so hard to contact people once they’re in witness protection.
First, don’t listen to the left in anything about guns. It will get you arrested.
In my state, NC, even though a very pro 2a state you can’t just legally say “hi guy I don’t know, I will buy your gun.” You must either posses a concealed carry permit OR have a valid purchase permit from your sheriff’s office (this must be given to the guy from whom you purchase).
That all being said, if I am living in one of the slave states no way in hell am I buying a gun that I do not know the history of.
We must stop this nail biting. For the children. Because it hurts their little teeth and it absolutely trashes their manicures.
You aren’t going to find many private sellers worth your time at most gun shows these days. Used prices are almost as bad as new prices, so why buy used when I can pay $50 more and get brand new?
Had the chance to buy a summer house in RI this year. Somehow you just knew these assholes would do the anti gun legislation after the CT tragedy. This is not the America or place I grew up in. Going out west and “ain’t never coming back.”
I live in California. With the exception of family pass downs all gun transactions have to go thru an ffl. If you’re doing things legally here you will have a record of when you took control of the gun.
you’ll be fine. there is media created perception and there is reality. Just use a little common sense and you won’t run into any trouble.
Awesome!!!
You can maintain your own records detailing what you bought, when you bought it, where you bought, the serial number, and the amount paid. if you have a consistent and accurate list for your whole collection, you have a much better basis for establishing ownership and when you established it. You might even want to record who went with you to the show so you can remember if anything corroboration is needed.
Living in a slave state with a FOID card, I keep a receipt with my FOID and the seller’s FOID recorded for any private purchases (the seller will likely want to do the same).
*WHATEVER* you do, make sure you know the laws for your state!
As an example, here in IL, even private purchases require the 24/72 hour waiting period. Aside from the fact that the seller has a FOID and a gun to sell, you don’t really know who the seller is so follow the rules – whatever they may be – so you don’t get nicked for something stupid.
Chris
I bought my G19 on armslist, that glock was made in early 2000’s its been at least through 5 owners, by the looks of it it’s a workhorse, but anyways when you buying a used weapon trust your instincts if you don’t feel wright about it don’t buy it, oh and make sure it have serial numbers.
Well said, Robert. I wish you the best. I’m not sure how successful you’ll be, but I firmly believe it’s worth trying. Work from within the system to enable change to it. Use the tools our Founders gave us.
My fear is that your threats, no matter how specific, no matter how strongly worded or loudly spoken, will fall on deaf ears like they’re doing all over the country. Bloomberg and Obama together have the leverage to prop up exposed/vulnerable policymakers in states where they think they can get absurd gun control passed. And it’s working. Even if they conveniently forget their promises in 2014 (as politicians do), they will have given their cronies enough temporary strength to move the agenda forward another step.
And when that happens, as I believe it will, we’ll be left with few options and none of them will be pretty.
I have a zastava m76 in 8mm mauser. It was Serbia’s sniper rifle and is still used in the Balkins by Croatia and maybe Bosnia. The iron sights are typical east block sights. A Zrak 4x scope is originally issued with the rifle with original markings. I also have a 8x scope sold by East Wave with Slavic markings. Both are fixed power PSOP type of units. The rifle has ten round magazines and the bolt locks the action open after the last shot is fired. The barrel is 21.5 inches and a fixed wood stock pistol grip is present. The bipod is removable.
What class would the rifle qualify for and why?
Get a receipt. If you are really concerned you can go over to a Notary and do a form about taking ownership with the receipt given. If you are really uncertain you can take it to the police yourself and do a check on the gun.
Thanks
Robert
If this concerns you greatly – after leaving the show – contact your local PD to run a criminal check on the weapon – or prior to even attending inquire of them as to what cost if any is needed for you to bring it in and have them run a check on the serial number. Most local PDs more than happy to oblige. Also – do keep transaction records for yourself – detailing SERIAL #s/caliber/identifying photos in case of fire or theft and reporting to insurance or PD afterward to again cover yourself in event it lands in bad hands prior to or after your ownership…
Those people he is speaking to don’t give a shit. They have an agenda and will implement it.
First and foremost we must remember that irrespective of party, these folks are all POLITICIANS. At the end of the day, what matters is not if a bill is good or bad for their particular party, but what can I get in return for my vote. Many voters, myself included made calls, wrote letters and/or e-mails, and got either form letters or vacuous promises based on bullsh!t. When the time to truly battle comes, the horse-swapping will begin, the good old quid pro quo will happen in the” smoke filled rooms” and those that were trusted by their constituents will sell their souls a la Judas.
The description of the “compromise bill” provided above is grossly inaccurate.
Of course there are some problems with the bill that we need to correct, but it doesn’t come close to permitting the horrors the GOA and others describe. Here’s what it really says:
With respect to online sales, you need to go through an FFL “if such transfer occurs pursuant to an advertisement, posting, display or other listing on the Internet or in a publication by the transferor of his intent to transfer, or the transferee of his intent to acquire, the firearm.”
This does not mean that “If you have ever had an “Internet … posting” on (or related to) your gun, you can sell it only by going to a dealer and filling out a 4473 and getting the government’s approval.” If you post an ad online and then an ad on your church bulletin board, and the buyer contacts you from the bulletin board, you don’t need a background check. Such as sale would not have “occur[ed] pursuant to” the online ad. The “related to” language in the article is even further from reality. Posting about your gun online, like a gun review or general comment, does not prohibit you from selling it later to your neighbor sans background check. That sale would not have occurred pursuant to the online ad.
As for the interstate transport language, the post above says, “But, under the Toomey-Manchin-Schumer sell-out, unless you can “demonstrate,” to the satisfaction of the New York police (1) where you came from, (2) where you’re going, (3) that you’re legally entitled to possess the gun in the place you can from, and (4) that you’re legally entitled to possess the gun in the place you’re going, they will arrest you in New York.”
Nowhere does the law place such a burden on gun owners. In fact, that is what is happening right now. NY and NJ cops are presuming the gun is illegal until you demonstrate otherwise. The new language addresses this problem. It says:
“(c) Limitation on Arrest Authority.-A person who is transporting a firearm or ammunition may not be-
“(1) arrested for violation of any law or any rule or regulation of a State, or any political subdivision thereof, relating to the possession, transportation, or carrying of firearms or ammunition, unless there is probable cause that the transportation is not in accordance with subsection (b); or
“(2) detained for violation of any law or any rule or regulation of a State, or any political subdivision thereof, relating to the possession, transportation, or carrying of firearms or ammunition, unless there is reasonable suspicion that the transportation is not in accordance with subsection (b).”
This language does the exact opposite of what’s being reported. Further, the interstate transport section also expands the protection to ammo (they missed magazines, which need to be added in) and the law covers not just the actual travel but it also “includes staying in temporary lodging overnight, stopping for food, fuel, vehicle maintenance, an emergency, medical treatment, and any other activity incidental to the transport.” This language fixes a lot of problems people were having when they missed a flight and were arrested picking up their bags.
As for the mental health records, I am not happy with the language about mental health records, but I don’t see any language that changes the current standard of mentally defective or adjudicated mentally incompetent. There is also nothing to support the claim that a psychiatrist can just unilaterally ban you from owning a gun. “Adjudication” requires a court determination. That requirement would remain unchanged. As for HIPPA, doctors are still bound by professional rules governing confidentiality. Doctors couldn’t disclose your personal info before HIPPA (passed in ’99), what makes you think things would be different now? If HIPPA protections are lifted, the professional rules and protections would still apply.
Rather than listening blindly to what everyone else says is in this bill, why don’t you read it for yourself. The full text as been available since last night.
http://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=968
I’ve been in touch with a few state reps who support the 2A and they’re fighting hard to help save our gun rights. Shall issue only exists in a handful of cities, and I’m lucky enough to live in one of the cities where our Chief of Police respects the 2A. I find most of our residents to be good little sheep looking for a handout and screw everybody else. I hope I’m wrong, but we’re screwed with the new gun bills coming through because every one of them is going to pass. They’re going to take our rights away one step at a time until we lose them all. I wish I was moving to Texas.
This about sums it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q
I’d be more concerned about headspace than provenance. I make sure anything I buy used has proper headspace before I fire it.
gotta admit I cringe everytime I hear “FNH”; our local gendarmes just bought two “sniper rifles” (local newspaper terminology), to handle hostage situations… of which we haven’t had one….
Sen. Murphy,
Go _uck yourself! You Commie Pinko Fag!
The California Legislature has a Democrat supermajority that can theoretically override gubernatorial vetoes, so they will attempt to out do NY and Conn. First up, AR ban expanded to require any new weapons to have internal magazines only (i.e., 8 rounds capacity accessed by popping the rear pin). A “violence” tax on firearms sales. California currently requires a Handgun Safety Certificate (good for five years) for the purchase of handguns. Now they want this extended to all firearms, renewable biannually, with a background check (in addition to the background check needed to purchase a firearm) for mere possession of a firearm. Two ammo taxes, one undefined, one .05 per round. Plus a ban of “military and hollow point” ammo, and a separate proposal to extend the lead ammo ban (to protect the Condor) to the whole state. I guess that would leave us with copper or brass solids. A renewal of a proposal to require ID to purchase ammo, plus fingerprints, plus reporting of sales to the State. Plus record keeping and licensing requirements for vendors, and all handgun ammo to be kept behind the counter. A proposal to prohibit the sale of off-roster handguns except between LEOs (who are exempt from the safe handgun roster buying limitations (thus preventing LEOs from selling used off roster firearms to non-leos, and raises question as to the continued vendibility of previously rostered guns that are no longer listed. Is that enough? We already have a 10 round mag limit. Now they want to ban AR mag bodies that could be modified to accept more than 10 (grandfathering eliminated) and the kits by which such mods could be performed. A specific ban on bullet button kits for converting ARs to the (current) legal configuration. And then I think there is a proposal that would require gun owners to have personal possession of their firearms or have them locked up, with increased criminal penalties for anyone (not just children) gaining unlawful access to a firearm.
1. The bill to end grandfathering was already killed. It was turned into a non-firearms related bill
2. No proposal to lower the max capacity of fixed magazines to 8 rds
3. Yes there is a proposal to ban bullet buttons, or rather to redefine fixed magazine to mean a gun where you must dissassemble the action to remove the magazine
4. Those who own non-roster guns and who are not LEOs could still sell them under the proposed law, but they could no longer buy one from an LEO
5. No bill extensing the HSC to all guns, let alone making it harder to get (right now it is $25, take 5 minutes and if you cannot pass it you shouldn’t own a gun…or vote, or drive. You probably need to be under the guardianship of another)
There are many bills, many addressing the same thing with slightly different twists, so hard to keep straight. Some of them, including the most ridiculous ones, have been proposed and defeated in the past. Problem is term limits…we don’t know what the newbies will do. The Governor has said that we don’t really need more laws. He may still sign one here or there as a token gesture. Let’s hope not even that happens
If you have time to worry about things utterly beyond your control, please consult with me. I can suggest plenty; plus I work relatively cheap!
I love how Wolf completely erases the line between legally owning a gun, and murdering someone with a gun.
I have made call after call and talked with dozens of staffers. I can only continue to do so at this point.
I worry about that bit of rust next to the front sight, and whether or not this asshole knew what oil was, but that’s about it.
Va state police recommends drawing up a bill of sale, but it is not required.
Remember ladies, exercise muzzle discipline in this (jazz hands) direction…
Magpul Dynamics conducts casting calls for their newest video, Art of the Dancing Carbine.
Apparently in Texas there was a call for prettier faces and a way to get the wives to watch too. Reports that Chris Costa will tango with Nick Leghorn in a simunition hoe-down have not yet been confirmed.
Not at all.
My firearms are either new, military surplus, or inherited in which case the owner is dead.
So, we are about to screwed again! If people have not registered to vote yet, Monday is not too soon. These people need to know they will be voted out.
Hi I enjoyed reading all of the comments good or bad above.I recently built my first ar 15 it was a fun project.I plan on bringing it to the shooting range for target shooting.When i read and hear all of the reasons for banning the assault rifle and high capacity magazines would that have prevented sandy hook.There have been well over 60 mass shootings in the united states in the last 30 years did anyone running schools learn anything from them.Where was the surveilance video showing adam lanza getting out of his car in the parking lot.If a person was monitoring screens he could have seen it and maybe called the police who might have responded quickly enough to prevent him from getting in.As far has saying how lethal the ar 15 is and it should be banned im not buying that one.A glock 19 with 5 33 round magazines could have done the same thing maybe allot faster with better concealment.You just cant miss someone running or walking toward a building with a riffle not to easy to hide your intentions.Most politicians passing these bills to make law abbiding citizens look like criminals know nothing about firearms.They are trying to passify these poor parents who lost those beautiful little children.If one of them were my sons or daughters i would be suing the state of connecticut for not providing enough security at that school and any school for that matter.You have to stop the adam lanza,s from getting in the school not worrying how fast they can change magazines.making the magazine capacity to 10 rounds will only make a mentally sick person bring more magazines that can be changed faster than a politician thinks.They have a fire alarm and sprinklers in a school how many fires have there been in schools, What is the ratio of shootings to fires.The boy scout motto is be prepared mass shootings in schools will happen again will our politicians and government learn.Fire arms are a small part of the problem the type used does not matter they all can kill 100,s more can do it as well or better than the armalite ar 15 riffle.one child killed is to many if any politicians are reading this lets pass a bill to keep mentally derainged shooters from being able to enter a school with security.Not punish law abbiding gun owners with bans.
They are probably now throwing her a party at the DOJ. Conragtulations! You’re being sued! You are now officially the AG!
The clown in that photo is a mobster if I’ve ever seen one!
Charlie
Who is John Galt?
So being fueled on perogies, kielbasa, and iron city beer make you resilient to bullets? God I love that city. Not even 40 can stop a steeler fan.
.223 for rabbits? Back in my day we just used .22 shorts!
Wait… Aren’t I younger than foghorn?
Great now I feel old.
You complain about 30 minutes free time for the murderer to kill? Here in Norway the murderer had 4 HOURS, but I agree police response times are horrible + the fact that most police aren’t the best shots.