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Life’s a crap shoot (so to speak). You pays your money, you takes your chances. In terms of armed self-defense, you learn how to shoot, you carry, you decide on a course of action in a crisis, you take action (or not) and then… you deal with whatever happens.

Your defensive gun use might work. It might not. Who knows? There are way too many variables – personal, social and environmental – to predict the outcome. So even though I’ve trained on hostage targets I don’t know if I’d be able to thread the proverbial needle if I needed to shoot a bad guy in close proximity to a good guy. The real question for me: would I try? I don’t know for sure, the decision would certainly be distance dependent, but I reckon yes. Yes I would. You? [h/t Doodie]

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  1. Depends on the weapon in my hand and the situation at hand.

    I’d be much more likely to take the plunge with my USP than I would if I were only carrying my LCR. I know with my USP in condition 1 that I am a fantastic shot, and with the snubby I’m not as good as I could be.

    • Yes. Depends on the situation too. For example, if a man had my wife or daughter and was about to pull them into a vehicle, I would more inclined to take a risk since odds of survival go way down once the bad guy gets the victim in the car.

      • I think a lot of guys might shoot at their wives. To get the bad guy, I mean. God forbid you pulled the shot, which could be a win/win for some of the evil vindictive spouses of some guys I know.

      • This. X eleventybillion. Id rather take the risk of injuring or killing her along with the bad guy than let them go through whatever the perpetrator had planned.

      • As a parent who frequently has kids buckled in the car, this is a concern that I’ve walked through many different ways. The best thing I can think of is that in order to drive the car, they tend to have to be clear of any hostages, making the driver seat a great place to aim for. If you can incapacitate, disable, or otherwise cripple the driver the situation ‘should’ shift to your favor for dealing with next steps.

        • Excellent point. And this is yet another reason why I carry a full size .40 S&W with 180 grain bullets: in case I have to put a shot through a windshield I want to know the that the windshield will not deflect the bullet’s path.

    • “…with the snubby I’m not as good as I could be.”
      Train man train. If you carry your pocket gun more often, and you admit you could be a better shot, then get better. This shot was inside of two yards (metres for our Canadian friends).
      No offense to KJW but this was the most awesome video I have ever seen on TTAG.
      I would definitely take that shot, even if that wasn’t my friend or loved one being mugged.
      I was bored one day at the range so I set up a hostage scenario at about ten yards (metres). I had my over/under 12g with me and decided to test the shot pattern. I had a full size silhouette with an 8″ bull’s eye target over the left shoulder. With bird shot and modified cylinder choke, I hit the bulls eye and not one pellet hit the “hostage” target. You do have to aim a shotgun.

      • You got that right for sure. If I could not shoot a gun well enough to take the shot that guy did, then that is not a gun I would carry. Part of the reason I won’t carry a tiny little 380. I carry a G19 or a PPQ under a shirt no problem. From the way this one looked to have gone down I would have popped the bad guy with the blade out just a bit sooner than this guy did.

    • Make sure the laser you have can hold zero well. Otherwise at 10 feet it could be a whole foot off.

      • I was thinking the same thing. Stored a gun with a laser sight for a long time, and next time I fired it the laser sight was way off. Be wary.

    • Laser? Lasers are terrible on hand guns. Unless you had time to do an aimed shot, I would think it’d be better just using the front sight. By the time you draw you’re not sure if the laser is even on, and if it weren’t, by the time you figure out it’s not you lost your opportunity to shoot. But my biggest problem with lasers is that the slightest tweak of your wrist or fingers sends it 2 feet off the wrong direction if you’re aiming with it.

      • Lasers are useful for practice and intimidation. Most people reevaluate their options when they see were the bullet is going to hit.

        Though I don’t like the powerful ones where you have the solid beam going 20-50 meters in front of you.

      • “But my biggest problem with lasers is that the slightest tweak of your wrist or fingers sends it 2 feet off the wrong direction if you’re aiming with it.”

        Wait.. what?

      • And it wouldn’t send your bullet along the same flight path as the laser? Does your gun have magic head seeking juju that only applies to the bullets? WTF?

    • Right because nothing says “hey Im going to try and shoot you in the face even though you have taken a hostage” to a potential murderer like a bright red dot dancing around on their forehead.

      As you can see from the video you really don’t have that much time. Its not like the movies where the good guy draws his gun and points it at the attacker and they have a talk about life and negotiate the release of the hostage. As shown by this video, in reality, the second he sees your gun someone’s brains are going to be converted to red mist very quickly, either his, the hostages, or yours, the latter two of which are very bad for you. So you get one chance and a very narrow window to take it in.

      The guy in blue played this perfectly. Raise hands feign compliance, blade body towards attacker, draw from concealment without showing to attacker(he had probably already made up his mind and called his shot at this point), then level gun and “bang” the second the gun is level.

      • Very well said.

        Not only did he play it perfectly in the ways you describe, but he waited for the window, too. I was watching the bad guy while watching the vid, and at about the instant my mind registered “he’s distracted” is when good guy shot.

        There was a moment there, quick as it may have been, that the bg’s attention was NOT on HIS potential threat. The good guy exploited that perfectly, in my opinion.

    • You won’t have time to find the dot. The last class I took I was the fastest time from holster to 1st shot and the guy with the CT laser on his gun was the slowest because he kept waiting to see the dot before firing. The instructor asked him if he was, and he admitted it. Other slower shots were waiting to line up the sights, etc. Then he asked me if I was even using my sights and I said I was not really until the third or fourth round. Aaaaaand, that was what he wanted. In a DGU situation, you will most likely not have time to line up the sights for the perfect shot. You won’t have time to look for the laser dot. You will draw and point shoot, so I hope you are practicing for that.

      BTW, yes, my shots were hitting CoM even while not using my sights.

      • I got rid of my laser too, as I found same delay to aim, which was also un-necessary for good enough point shooting in close, with practice.

    • A laser might have been beneficial?

      You buying your skill sets in aisle five at Gander Mountain (and paying 20% too much)?

      The problem with lasers is that people spend too much time looking for the damn laser dot when they need to be shooting.

      The difference between winning and losing a deadly force encounter may be measured in tenths of a second.

      If you squander a few tenths looking for a dot when you should instead be going to full extension, burying that front sight into your target and pressing the trigger, then that laser you spent that $300 on may cost you your life.

      Besides, as someone noted, if you slap that trigger, it doesn’t matter where it was sighted when you started to slap, it won’t be there when you’re done beating that trigger like it’s a red-headed step-child.


      • Nobody seems to have come up with my solution. I consider my one gun with a laser to have been a mistake, but if I ever need to use it I intend to ignore the laser and use the sights. The TARGET may be distracted by what the dot is doing, so I haven’t turned it off, but the sights should do just fine. Close enough is definitely point-shoot, leave the 10 ring for the range.

    • If you need a laser to hit a target at that distance, you shouldn’t be carrying until you get proficient enough to actually hit something as large as a head at five feet. (Though I don’t really care how much practice a person has, it’s their right to carry without permission from me or anyone else. Just get some practice, darnit.)

    • I can’t use them, although I have a friend that swears by them. He always shoots from the hip with them. That said, he doesn’t seem to realize how slow he shoots second shots when using one.

      I think they are useful in tactical, clearing type situations where one is the aggressor, looking for that first well placed shot, and where darkness is your friend, so dark that you can’t discern the difference between your sights and your target.

      For me, they are useless defensively because for follow up shots the recoil from the first shot sends the dot flying upwards and what not and my eyes automatically just follow that dot like a puppy running after a chew toy. Ergo, my eyes are off the target following the damn dot. I wont spend time trying to train myself out of that.

      Without the laser, my eyes just naturally stay on the target until my gun/sight picture returns to my shooting POV.

  2. Alright, I want to know the story behind that video. You can’t just post it without telling us where it’s from or giving us more details!

    • This video was taken from a gas station surveillance camera in Brazil, where the government has taken our right to carry our guns and left us at the mercy of criminals who buy their guns illegally in Paraguay, even after a public referendum that was voted YES for civil rights to carry and the government is still stalling the permits.
      The USA is going the same way, as criminals like this fellow at the gas station commit their crimes rested that there is not going to be any attempt for self defense as no one is supposedly armed – the guy who fired the shot is a very well trained police officer from an elite squad, who was chatting to the gas station’s employees after topping off his gas tank…
      I had always had my concealed carry permit since I turned 21 many years ago, and my rights were taken without any previous warnings a few years ago, but I still carry, illegally I know, but rather be judged by 5, than carried by 6…
      I want to chose my right and risk to defend myself, property and other people’s life! Hear that Obama!
      I am often in the US where I have an aviation business and it makes me sad to see your legislators walking backwards trying to blame crimes on guns… Be advised!

  3. whoaaaa…depends on just how convinced I was that the BG was going to shoot the other guy anyway. I say that now, but if I was actually at the gas station–who knows?

  4. Yeah; depends; but if I needed to take the shot, with the training I’ve gotten and knowing how I respond to high stress situations; I would know, at that distance, I could take the shot with my full size 1911 and feel confident I would hit the bad guy and not the innocent.

  5. I probably wouldnt have taken that shot with a handgun, however a rifle is a different story for me

  6. Probably not at that point. I think I would have waited for a better opportunity should it present itself. I know under stress I tend to jerk shots to the right (lefty). That being said, I know that a better opportunity might not ever come. I saw this video a couple of weeks ago, and it has had meeting thinking about this type of situation and practicing quick head shots.

    • “waited for a better opportunity should it present itself. “

      Perfection is the enemy of good enough.

      If you watch the bad guy during the video, he gave the good guy about as perfect an opportunity as one could expect in that situation.

      • I get that, that’s why I’ve started practicing the situation. I generally practice point shooting from retention with my snubbie at 3 to 5 yards with good results on a full size B27 target. This is a little closer but with less room for error so at least a front sight aimed shot is needed. I could probably make the shot, I just need to develop confidence in the trigger control.

        I practice point shooting for self defense because most of my shooting is for bullseye competition where I do strive for perfection and like you said, “perfection is the enemy of good enough”. It’s my way of separating the two mindsets. But bullseye has given me a good “natural point of aim”.

    • Ok, after spending a little time in my basement plastic bullet range, I revise my earlier position. I would take the shot from 3 yards and with my heavy double action only J-frame. But it’s something I will continue to practice.

  7. At the end, it looks like the shooter is covering the perp’s confederates off camera because he does not cover the wounded guy on the ground.

  8. Probably would’ve gotten my arse chewed up one side and down the other by my buddy, but yes. Perfect distance for that shot.

  9. For some guy at the gas station I’m just chit chatting with? No. For my family? Yes. Take it and make it. It doesn’t need to be a kill shot, at first, just needs to land.

    I’d probably take a step or two closer, though. People with knives and guns or other weapons automatically expect others to back away instantly, as they did in this video. Immediately moving toward the attacker and counterattacking, instead, tends to confuse them and gives you a brief window to attack with advantage.

    As important, though, this demonstrates again that you must carry chambered, and you probably shouldn’t loiter late night at gas stations.

    • “As important, though, this demonstrates again that you must carry chambered,”

      Excellent point. And backing up one step further…you must carry.

      We need to send this one to Shannon “Guns are Never Used for Self Defense” Watts.

    • I agree with you on “family, yes!” Chit chat, non friends, probably not. I was thinking, wouldn’t it be the shits if when you fired, the gun went “click” as in bad primer, and you didn’t even know the hostage, or later found out he was a Shannon Watts follower.
      Yeah, I know, “vivid imagination” A lot of things come to mind when reading about shootings.

  10. That was a pretty close shot and he took a step towards the perp closing the distance even more. If you freeze the video at 22 seconds you can see he has a very clear shot all things considered. So yes. The victim also did a good job of pulling left when he saw his buddy draw down on the asshole.

  11. The guy with the gun to his head afterward said to the shooter,
    “WTF man, why did you do that, you could have shot me? but thanks for doing that!”

    • And he said it really loudly. Of course, it’s better than getting stabbed or shot by some lowlife cretin, but dang, I’ll bet his ears were ringing for a week.

  12. I don’t know if I would or could take the shot. Watching the video literally gave me chills for all the ways that could have gone sideways.

    Unless it was family, I don’t think I would/could. In the event of a miss…the legal and civil ramifications would boggle the mind…not to mention the fact that it would be national news for the anti’s.

  13. At that distance, maybe… the further away I get, the more hesitant I would be to take action.

  14. At that range, under those circumstances, yes take the shot. First, looked like the bad guy had several people to watch. Getting your weapon out and pointed before BG can react is the first priority. Then it looked like BG’s head wasn’t more than 2 feet from his muzzle, so there’s not even a need to aim, even for a head shot. From farther away you need more time to make a carefully aimed shot, but that close it looked easy.

  15. Depends.

    At close distance (less than 15 preferably under 10 meters) yes. Farther distances if there isn’t a rifle I would go with negotiation.

    Don’t laugh, negotiation is one the most effective tool against criminals. I know that from personal experience.

  16. Yes, under those exact same circumstances with regard to positioning, range, and the distraction factors affecting the bad guy.

  17. I am inclined to take the shot for two reasons:
    (1) The attacker might unintentionally shoot the hostage with all that wiggling and struggling going on … the longer that goes on, the more likely that happens.
    (2) I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to “trust” the attacker not to harm the hostage at another location … why else would the attacker be dragging them away?

    There are no guarantees no matter what you do. Why not handle the matter on your terms rather than on the attacker’s terms?

  18. I’m on mobile and this comes up oddly. From main page it’s this posts title and descriptions but the officer go F yourself video. Once here I see the live leaks video but it won’t play. Sounds like officer Brazil did well

    • Who in the hell carries without one in the chamber?

      Don’t be a dead amateur. If you’re going to carry a gun, carry it loaded. Roughly half of deadly force encounters are 6′ or less. How long does it take a bad guy to cover 6′? Not very frickin’ long is the scientific answer.

      Faster than you can react is also a correct answer.

      If you carry with an empty chamber, you’re a fool.


  19. Something else that has not been brought up. Lets say you take the shot, and you hit your target. Just because you scored a hit, doesn’t mean it’s all over. The perp may very well be able to shoot you, and maybe the hostage, before he goes down, and, maybe even after he’s down??
    Of course some may argue that if the shot was placed in the right spot, or if the cop was packing a 500 caliber weapon, there probably wouldn’t be much movement after a hit. I wouldn’t want to bank on that!

  20. Speed, surprise and violence of action.

    That’s the way trained people do it.

    This guy in blue was good. Nicely done.

    I’d do the same.

    Three things: 1. Wait until he takes the gun or his eyes off you before you act. If he takes both off you, it’s relatively easy to come out on top.
    2. Try to get him talking. If he’s talking, he’s probably not thinking about shooting.
    3. Keep moving.

    You can also index your gun with your strong side elbow as you’re “surrendering”, so as to verify exactly where your gun is for the draw.

    With training, you should be able to get the gun out and shots off in under a second. If the bad guy is distracted, as this one was, you can quickly end up on the right side of things provided you can put shots on target and make good hits.

    Something we all should practice.


  21. Worst case, your round passes through a fleshy (but not 100% vital) part of the hostage (shoulder, for example) and right into the chest of the guy holding the hostage. That’s why you cary a big boy caliber that can deliver terminal performance through barriers. (.380 ACP need not apply) Would that scenario be ideal? Hell no, but a bullet grazing your shoulder heals. A bullet to the head because the perp panicked and decided to shoot the hostage… Not so much.

    • Worst case scenario is you put one through the hostage’s head. What worked here were a number of things. First, the hostage was ebing dragged of and was falling down to his left, exposing the perp. Second, the officer stepped into the shot, reducing the range from 6′ plus to around 3′. Third, the perp, who was focused on the hostage, was surprised by the officer’s actions and did not have enough time to react appropriately–i.e. he froze. Fourth, the perp did not know the officer was armed. If the officer had been openly carrying, either the attack would not have happened or the outcome would have been different because the perp would have accounted for the threat by pointing his gun at the officer.

  22. Anyone who wants to see more of these type of videos go on liveleak. There are quite a few videos of off duty Brazilian Police Officers who pull their firearms in a robbery and kill the guy. What’s really interesting is in about half the videos the threat will be on the ground rolling around, and the police officer will look and see the guy in an unarmed winced position and then shoot him again after a pause. Their justice system is quick and effective that way.

    • Saves money on a trail, AND, the bad guy can’t testify against you.
      I’m also guessing the DA won’t try and find some way you “over reacted” or wanted to “murder” the perp.

  23. Target shooting concentrates on aiming and firing at a fixed target. It is designed to improve accuracy and consistency of shooting. However, in a live or die situation most live targets will be shooting back nor will they be standing still while you calmly put six rounds in a nice neat pattern at the center of mass. Continued and prolonged target shooting will train and instill muscle memory for, draw, aim and fire techniques which will enhance your ability to deal with a threat situation. Target shooting does not teach you how to deal with moving targets that are shooting back. More to the point the target more than likely will start shooting first and does so with little or no warning.

    Counter Response shooting doesn’t focus on accuracy, if you haven’t developed the necessary muscle memory or accuracy by now perhaps you should reconsider whether or not you should be carrying around that CCW you have worked so hard to get. Nor is it about busting down doors and going after the bad guy with an armed assault team. Counter Response indicates that you are the target and the threat has come to you unannounced. Your actions must be such that you can counter an assault by a person or persons who have no qualms about killing you and the people around you. Most robberies the aggressor/s are relying on shock and confusion to their advantage. Events have shown where armed intruders who are confronted with a lethal response their willingness to continue quickly degrade and fall apart allowing the person responding to gain the upper hand. Yet, this does not mean that all aggressors will react to a counter response in your favor and when they react it will be with lethal force. Only good solid training and conditioning can assure that you will respond appropriately, following through with that training to insure that the threat is neutralized and that no innocent bystanders are harmed in the process.

    Example: The Aurora Theater in Colorado. A lone man entering a crowded theater with numerous weapons and body armor. First off, he has the advantage over the CCW. Our shooter is prepared to kill anyone that gets in his way and has no concern for the consequences of his actions. Second, he has protective body armor that emboldens him to greater and more aggressive action. Third, he is probably prepared to die and has no real fear of dying. You on the other hand have a responsibility not only to guard against the threat but the added responsibility not to shoot any innocent bystanders who might get in front of or are standing behind the shooter. Add to this a darkened crowded room, flickering lights, loud gun reports, people screaming and diving for cover or attempting to run away. You have only seconds to pull your weapon, find your target and make sure that you have a clear and clean shot. Do you think you can do it? If you were to ask me if I could stop such a person I would say, “Probably not.” Would I attempt to try and stop him? “Yes.” More to the point I would hope that my training had kicked in and that my response was automatic. My level of success will depend greatly on how much I have trained and how often I trained. That training will be very important.
    Believe me, when the smoke clears and the dead and wounded are carried away the parents of the child you shot in the attempt to stop the bad guy they are not going to be sympathetic to your situation; neither will the police or the justice system. Still, if you are going to carry a CCW you are obligated to try. If not, then why have a CCW? If you are carrying your weapon around just to look tough or to impress the women then just put the damn thing away. This is the facts of the real world. We don’t get to pick and choose which battles we can fight. Often times they come to us without warning and we are tasked to deal with what is thrown at us. Still, faced with that situation I would like to know that I had the chance to fight back rather than die or let others die because I wasn’t prepared to respond.
    Counter Response training teaches situational awareness, threat assessment, and tactics. In most situations it will save your life and possibly the lives of those around you. However, no amount of training can prepare you for all possibilities. While Counter Response training will provide you with the skills you need to approach and handle most situations it is still no guarantee that you will succeed in all situations. Learning to shoot is the first step to Counter Response training. Once drawing, aiming and firing has become second nature to you then you can start to learn when to shoot, where to shoot and how to respond to sudden and unprovoked attacks. If you insist on carrying a weapon you must also be aware of the responsibility that goes with it. Going to the next step and learning Counter Response where real world problems require a trained response is the only smart thing to do. Counter Response training will give you a greater chance to remain in control without having to explain to the police or a jury of your peers why you shot an innocent bystander while attempting to stop the bad guy.

    • I agree that static target shooting alone is not the best training for SD. But it does help develop and hone skills that will only make you better for more dynamic situations.

      A lot of professionals in many fields take deliberate steps to refocus on fundamentals. Static range training can do that.

      My view is to cross train. It does not have to be either – or. One can devote time to different areas of the ‘shooting problem.’

    • “if you haven’t developed the necessary muscle memory or accuracy by now perhaps you should reconsider whether or not you should be carrying around that CCW ”

      I think you should consider that for yourself. There are people who have just started training with a gun or just bought a gun by now. It would be stupid to assume everyone has just as much experience as you do by now. Everyone is at their own stage of learning.

    • The Aurora shooter might have been, technically, wearing ‘body armor’, but it was NOT ‘ballistic armor’. As I recall, it was hockey pads or similar sports armor, nothing particularly bullet-resistant. But that would be hard to tell in a movie theater.

  24. With my gun in hand, I could make this shot. Most if not all of us could. But I don’t believe I have the training, skill or reaction time to draw from cover and get to that position in less than a second to make this shot work.

    • In this case you don’t need less than a second. The good guy was smooth. Smooth is fast. Most of the time was spent analyzing the situation and setting up for the counter move. He was slow (relatively), better yet, smooth clearing his garment and when he had the proper grip on the pistol, he brought it up fast to eye level and lunged into the target. Always close to engage with a handgun. If you are the only target then of course the timing is different but you only need to be fast once your firearm is visible and it is clear you are making an aggressive move. You can pull it off between one and two seconds but if you think you need less time then that then train for it and you might be surprised that you can do it.

      • I’m speculating here, but my guess is that this was a robbery, although it didn’t look like the other guys were reaching for their wallets. But if the BG is expecting you to reach in your back pocket and hand him your wallet, you don’t have to be quick or particularly smooth when you accidentally pull out your .357 magnum by accident instead of your wallet. Especially when he’s expecting 3 or 4 other people to reach for their wallets.

        Anyway, if my guess is correct, or even if it’s not, the BG got paid every penny he deserved.

  25. At that distance, in those circumstances, yes.

    From that distance, the chances of missing are fairly slim. Sights aren’t even needed from less than 5 feet away. I know myself, and I know I can point shoot my M9 within less than an inch of my target from that distance while under stress. I’ve done did that before in the military.

    Now, if he was moving a little bit more, if he was farther away, or if the victim was moving around more; I would be more hesitant and would have probably tried something to cut the gap or get a better angle first.

    That being said, what would you have done if instead of being the shooter, you were the one who had been grabbed? Do you carry something that would have allowed you to defend yourself if attacked from behind?

    • “That being said, what would you have done if instead of being the shooter, you were the one who had been grabbed? Do you carry something that would have allowed you to defend yourself if attacked from behind?”

      Great question! I was noticing the hostage actually pulling the gun off his head and neck every time the bad guy shoved the muzzle into him. If I can get my hands on your gun that you are holing in one hand then you ain’t shooting me with it. How about a slice across the thumb, check the direction of the muzzle with off hand, spin out of the hold simultaneously bringing the knife up with a slash to the throat.

  26. Probably not; my marksmanship skills are absolute crap. I’d have missed or shot the hostage. Just being honest.

    • My misses are all for one reason…trigger control. Do you shoot often with your carry gun? Do you shoot often with a variety of guns? Not enough trigger time on your EDC or mixing it up too much can both be detrimental to this type of “muscle memory” shooting.

  27. It depends on who the hostage was. If he or she was someone that I cared about, I’d take the shot and I wouldn’t miss. If it was a stranger, then no. Because the person that I saved would probably sue me for “traumatizing” them.

  28. Can’t say for sure, though much more likely to take it if the bad guy had a getaway vehicle close by and a kidnapping looked imminent.

    Bet the hostages ears are still ringing!

  29. After searching for awhile I found out that this happened in Sao Paulo. The criminal was hit in the right shoulder. The shooter was an off duty Brazillian cop.

  30. Dependent on my personal proximity, I believe Id take the shot. Given the opportunity as in the video.
    But easy to Monday morning quarterback as it wasn’t me there.

  31. After looking at this a few times I’m fairly certain the cop shot the BG a second time about 0.5 seconds after the first.

  32. Well done!

    You can see that the shooter moves sideways before drawing and taking the shot. Smart move since it makes him a smaller target and helps conceal the fact he is drawing a gun.

  33. The police officer is very well trained, that much is obvious. I watched the video stopping it many times and that was not a head shot.

    At :22 you can clearly see the officer pointing down at the body of the perp before firing the shot. By this time the perp is fully exposed to the officers gun – sideways to him looking at the other guys.

    And that’s why this worked. There were more people on the scene that distracted the perp and made him shift his cover (victim) to face them. That opened his whole right side to the officer, who adjusted his aim and let go.

    If this was a one on one with no other distractions it would never have worked.

    An no, I would not have taken the shot unless it was a last resort. At my age, I know my limitations.

  34. Not a fair question…. because the issue of immunity from the consequences is not addressed.
    The bad mamajama is a cop… whether or not the hostage lives or dies the cop won’t face
    charges for taking the shot. If a NON cop is faced with the exact same situation and the hostage
    does NOT survive said NON cop will be crucified legally and in the news. THAT is the fundamental
    problem facing armed citizens…..the fact that no matter what course of action they take they risk

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