TTAG has a lot of firearms industry types reading the site. Rest assured, we never sell your info to third parties. But we do talk about you to these for-profit gun guys. During a recent chinwag I discussed our readers’ psychology with a man whose brand means over-priced military-born products—even though they [now] sell competitively-priced products specifically fashioned for the civilian market. “We have loads of market research,” he said. “But we still don’t know how gun buyers (that’s you!) decide to purchase a particular gun. How they move through all the information out there to the point where they’re actually ready to buy a new gun.” Care to share?
I like the way those trend lines are moving. I also have a problem with the wording of the question, who exactly is an “authorized person”? I live in a ‘may issue’ state so I am technically authorized, after all I was interviewed by a county supreme court judge. The term is a little vague, but moot anyway with the overwhelming opposition.
Funny, you would think that if our government was operating as designed the tone of politicians would mirror overall public sentiment.
Honey badger doesn’t give a shit.
Umm, 5 years ago I would pick what I wanted based on hunting/affordability. 3 years ago I would buy what ever tactical toy I wanted. 10 months ago I was buying based on ammo availability. Now I am back to affordability, which means it better be a good deal in a caliber I already own.
There are many ways to buy a gun…
– Go to a gun show and anyone will sell you one with no background check.
– Just get online and buy one from Amazon and they’ll ship it to your door (no background check required)
/sarc
Because of the total absolute BS laws in my state, I start with a simple question: “Does it, or will the distributor allow me to get it with 10 round magazine” If the answer is yes, then I continue, if the answer is no, I move on to the next. Shockingly, the criminals in my state do not start with the same question.
I go see if TTAG has a review!
amidoinitrite?
But for real, though, I do sorta like Michael B. said above.
I usually buy based on need I perceive, or to fill a “hole” in my collection (e.g. “I don’t have a deer rifle” or “I need a more concealable EDC gun”).
So I research that class of gun, and try to figure out which ones fill my requirements the best. (One of my not-insignificant requirements is “Do I like it?”) As part of this step, I shoot everything I can in that class of gun, via friends, rentals, loaners, etc.
Once I’ve narrowed it down a bit, then I do what Michael B. said above. I go looking for bad reviews. I look for ones that give substantive reasons why they dislike that particular gun, and I look for common threads. As an example, a common thread among reviews of the SIG Mosquito is its finicky ammo preferences. If I find stuff like that, I decide whether it’s something I can live with or not, and proceed accordingly.
Only after I’ve narrowed my options down to one (two at most) do I go price-shopping, and thence on to the actual purchase.
This is me, too.
I have a feeling that, as a general rule, gun buyers are some of the most well-researched and informed consumers around.
Half the fun for me is the research. I’m the same way with my backpacking gear also.
If I didn’t like getting in to the minutiae of a hobby, I’d have three guns instead of thirteen.
This post plus the rest in this section from Matt in FL is how I and my friends buy a gun as well.
With the internet leveling the information field for consumers of just about anything, well-researched and informed buying is the norm and a firearm or gun-related manufacturer better have their shit lined up if they want to attract dollars, especially mine. It still amazes me when people continue to buy Kimber products or Remington bolt guns, for example, when there’s a mountain of freely avaiable data about X companies customer service, parts available, and user experiences with their guns.
Granted, each individual has a different threshold for what constitutes a gun worth buying and keeping, but some guidelines for me and mine are:
1. Internet research, even if just done casually, can turn up a general impression of a firearm in little to no time. Of course you can’t trust everything you read online, and the source of each user’s report (an m4carbine.net review will be different in nature and focus than one from arfcom, for example) should be factored into the data, but you can still get the gist.
2. Your first iteration of a certain model will not be what I buy, ever, with the exception of a handful of companies. 90% of companies beta-test their designs on the rubes who are first-purchasers, and I don’t have the time or patience to deal with design flaws you could have discovered if you’d simply tested it for another 6 months. I’ll let them deal with shipping the gun back and forth from FFL to manufacturer over and over while the try to tweak their firearm to working order.
3. Don’t ever trust gun store employees or gun magazines. I don’t give a shit about the ad copy space you bought, you should consider it wasted dollars and instead invest in a video camera and a third party lab to test the salient features of your gun. Then put that up on Youtube along with sending out a couple of sample guns to different blogs of note or Youtube reviewers of note – like Vuurwapen Blog, Military Arms Channel, and of course, TTAG. If your gun eats crap and fails badly, then be responsive and fix it, and communicate the whole time, and I will bet that hordes of people will view you as a stand up company and be willing to give you their dollars.
This. I read a lot and give most weight to independent reviews from writers who have earned my trust by taking time to test the weapons in the field for more than just one range tryout period. And give feedback on maker attention to fixes and support to the gun community. I dont buy a lot of guns and prefer to just have one for the specific purpose so I dont mind paying more for quality and spend the rest on ammo and training. Examples of makers I favor per the above would be Noveske Magpul and Id say Keltec if they ever got production support.
But I would guess I am in the minority based on comments about safe queens etc.
I am surprised the gun makers dont know the process better. I have read more women are buying guns but not sure where that comes from…I would guess retail stores as that is what I observe about women I know best.
About once ever 2-3 months or so I go to a small or medium sized brick-and-mortar gun store in my area, do a NICS and give them cash and then take one or two home.
I bought a Mossberg 590 because the Ramones had a song about it.
More songs about guns and I’ll buy more guns.
Most of my purchases are made when I visit my local gun shop and something “catches my eye”. Caliber is the first thing I look at (trying to consolidate). Then fit/finish. I decide on the spot. If I leave without it…..it’s doubtful that I’ll go back and get it later.
Good to see my brothers and sisters in the young bracket favoring firearms over control. Considering my group sadly loved Obama… at least in the 08 election… that is a win to me.
I have all the guns I need. Want. Now that’s a whole other thing. Since the recent news right here on TTAG that CA DOJ is allowing model 10-14 smiths that’s what I’m currently looking for.
When I buy a new gun 2 main things factor in. Price and reputation. Why buy a 1600 dollar Benelli when a 250 dollar Mossberg will do the same job? Is the Benelli 7 times more durable, more accurate, superior to the Mossberg?
I’m at a comfortable place in my life. I didn’t get there by being dazzled by flash and bling.
I start by determining the purpose of the next gun to be purchased. Is it for concealed carry, home defense, car gun, just a range toy, etc.?
Then I think about the caliber and action I want. Do I want DA/SA, SAO, DAO? A caliber I already have or a new one?
Then I see what’s out there and find options I like within the price I’m willing to pay.
Then I look at reviews here, YouTube, and other places, and try to find anyone I know that has the guns I’m looking at.
Then I try to find a range where I can rent some of the ones I’m looking at and try them out.
Then I make my decision and make my purchase.
Then later I usually go back and buy some of the other top runners. 🙂
Or sometimes I just go “ooh! shiny! want!”
Mostly go to the local range, see what others are shooting, ask them questions about their firearms, and then seeing if the range has one I can rent (or if the person I was asking will let me put some ammo through theirs). I have seen many a pretty firearm that just wasn’t a good fit for me or the missus.
Freedom Group: ruining firearms companies and long-term profit potential for quick profit via cutting corners. Too bad they are a company focused solely on quick money via the gun business, and not a gun business whose solid principles would earn them more money in the long run. There is a line between entrepreneurial spirit and flat-out greed, and TFG has made it perfectly clear which side of that line they’re on. Is what they’re doing illegal? No sir. Is it shady? Definitely. Some decent companies (and a few excellent ones) are paying the price as a consequence of trying to boost the bottom line.
I prtetty much do not buy from local gun shops anymore. Sales people with little or no information and the generally higher prices have taken the toll on me and i pretty much buy online only.
I am a voracious reader. If something new comes out, I read all about it, learn what the philosophy of use is behind the development and then attempt to relate it to my own situation and make a decision based on my own experience and knowledge.
But, I am also an instructor and work as an RSO at a large outdoor range so I can see what drives most customers’ belief of their own wants, needs and desires and that unfortunately is ‘tacticool’. Dirty Harry made the S&W Model 29 a legend for all time. When i was a young cop in the early seventies, most handguns could be bought for around $250.00 but you couldn’t find a model 29 at all and if you did, it was well above $600.00
When the Washington sniper was finally caught and his weapon was identified as a Bushmaster AR15, the want, need, desire for the Bushmaster exploded. it was not even near a Tier 1 firearm but that didn’t matter.
Want to sell a lot of a specific firearm? Get a movie written around it or at least featured in a movie or have some homicidal sociopath use one in a spree killing.
You need to sell to the lowest common denominator when it comes to experienced customers and wave something bright and shiny to attract them.
I have a hard time justifying anything over $500. Everything I buy is usually pretty well thought out and serves a particular set of requirements/rolls. Most everything I have is multifunction.
I see what some of the experienced and respected members on M4C have to say. Find the cheapest online retailer that has it and have it shipped to my FFL. I never buy from local gun shops. Done.
I like user reviews, as TTAG has and links them. I don’t like the obviously sponsored reviews, which TTAG also has. I really dislike the advertorial/infomercial type of post however, and sadly we see those here too.
I check out youtube a lot, but I learn to read and listen between the lines as a lot of the bigger channels are sponsored in some way. They’ll rave about something, but you can pick up where something is ‘less satisfactory’.
I think a company should just not be afraid and send their stuff out even to reviewers who have burned their stuff down. It shows balls and willingness to learn. Stand behind your product and take it like it is.
FGI
F#*KING GREEDY IDIOTS
I’m a little surprised that women and nonwhites (n general, not in the survey) are so strongly opposed to guns, considering their disproportionate representation among victims of crime. Otherwise, no surprises here. But of course, the anti-gun crowd has shown no signs they’re going to give up, whether or not they have a chance of turning America’s streets into a place where criminals and predators roam unopposed. If they DID succeed, it would be a powerful lesson in being careful what you wish for, but that doesn’t seem to be the way the trend is running.
I’m surprised it’s not higher. I mean, think about it: women tend to be a little more liberal then the alternatives (but more of them seem to recognize the virtues of gun ownership lately); Hispanics and first-generation Asians mostly come from strict gun control nations; many second-generation Hispanics and Asians are liberal or at least Democrats; many blacks are exposed to/victimized by violence and honestly buy into the Democratic lie that taking guns away will make that violence go away.
hmmmm, Shannon Watts.
Dirk, I’m beginning to think that you may have an unhealthy obsession….
As a heterosexual, happily married man I do not find Shannon Watts attractive in the least. And that statement is in no way influenced by my beautiful wife, who enjoys reading TTAG over my shoulder….like now….
lol
Thinking back, I start with the looks. If a gun doesn’t look cool, it doesn’t make my research list.
For example, I have never held a Glock or fired one, never even considered it because it just doesn’t look cool.
I do own a Walther PPS, several Springfields xdm/xds, and FNH handguns and carbines, and S&Ws all selected based on tons of research.
All research is done online, reviewing documented reviews and video reviews.
Too true. Despite the massive installed user base I can’t get over the looks of the Mk III. I will probably get a Buckmark at some point.
First, I’ve got a bucket list, so I’m always keeping an eye out at different retailers.
There’s a pawn shop close to home that I stop by about every other week for the above list or to see if something tickles my fancy. There’s only a few items left on this list.
Second, if I have a need coming up, I look for reviews on the different makes. Often times, price will dictate here, but not always. In the last case, I was looking for a very specific rifle for my safari. The brand I wanted didn’t have BUIS, so I went with the next in line.
Third, I really try to have ready cash on hand for those texts or emails from friends who know of a gun for sale. Those happen all too often.
Last are the spur of the moment buys. I go to gun shows every other month and just cruise the aisles to see if anything calls out to me.
I’m fortunate to have a pretty forgiving wife. That said, a cool uncle of mine once told me “a man’s always got to have a stash the wife knows nothing about”.
That is the most clever name play iv ever seen, they should officially name it the Black Mamba.
It is terribly nice, but does its ability to switch flavors come from a barrel swap or just mag change? Either way firing 7.62×39 is a hell of a risk, if it can run Tula accurately then its gonna make them a mountain of cash.
I’m a total value shopper. Sure, there are lots of cool guns out there, but I want bang for the buck, not the other way around.
I also want guns that are common in use and have readily available parts and ammo. I don’t buy fancy caliber hunting rifles just because of the possibility that I might be able to squeeze a few extra yards out of my shot. I don’t buy expensive handguns because they have cool OD Green receivers and such.
I buy guns because they are tools. Tools I love and think are cool, but tools none the less. I want guns that will last a long time and get my moneys worth out of them. I want them in calibers that are easy to find.
When I do make buying decisions I take the above factors into consideration, then I go do my research. I start by reading reviews on places like TTAG. Then I read customer reviews at places like Buds Guns. I watch You tube videos from guys like Hickock. Occasionally if I’m really not sure I try to see if a local range has a rental. I shop around at different stores and handle multiple guns in the category I’m looking at. I go home and sleep on it before making a decision. Then if the price is right, if the gun fits my needs, if the choice is something doesn’t make wonder if it’s the “right” gun… I buy it.
I don’t think I make many spur of the moment gun buying decisions, unless it’s just such a great deal, or it’s something I’ve been waiting around to get a chance to buy (Like a Sub 2000 I’m wanting). The choices to buy is deliberate and not really affected by the marketing ads in American Rifleman or the commercials on Outdoor TV. It is influenced by research, handling, and the need for a specific tool to fill a role.
Now once I have the guns for all the roles I want them for my buying OODA loop may turn to something more akin to a three year old in a candy shop, but we’ll see.
I buy police surplus, refinish them, and then trade them for the things that I really want.
I NEVER buy new guns and I NEVER shoot factory loaded ammo. I suppose that I am not the ideal customer in the eye of the firearm manufacturer.
Do the same thing with cars too.
Price is important to me. I’d like to own and carry a Sig M11-A1 or a Colt New Agent but the price is too steep. Sometimes things are too rich for my blood and especially if they might vanish to an evidence locker one day. I’ll pay five or six hundred but I’ll rarely go above eight (and those are special circumstances).
Reputation and reliability are also important. I want to know that it’ll work the first time, every time. I’m unlikely to ever own a Kel-Tec but I’ll buy a Beretta or Glock any day. I’ll search the ‘net for reviews and Youtube for videos from people I trust. I will likely sit through a Nutnfancy video at least once because he will be brutally honest. If the gun dealer wants my money they need to let reviewers discuss the good and the bad honestly.
Also, it has to be something I find visually appealing. The only reason I’ve never looked at the Smith M&Ps is because they’re less attractive to me then their older 3rd Gen pistols.
My entire gun collection began after watching Utube vids. I also read reviews and try to narrow my wants down to what I really could use in my shooting environment.
I try to buy nearby, but I usually end up online and gunbroker has been my resource for the majority of my purchases. I just received my Keltec PMR 30 from an online retailer after every brick and mortar source I visited refused to put me on a list. Poor attitude has been the rule at many of my local gun dealers.
I look at online retailers that have stores near me, and when I find something that looks interesting in my price range I do google searches on the product to get reviews. If the product is not massively panned, and has at least ‘mixed’ reviews or better I will usually get it, if I still want it after doing all the research.
I buy thing that fit a niche I see. Squirrels, 22. Deer, half my arsenal. Pistols, things I can shoot accurately. Would like to hunt elk, have a couple rifles for that.
Accuracy is the only meteric I use for retention. I can accruately shoot anything in the safe. Can’t hit with it, down the road it goes.
Probably not the model buyer you are looking for.
‘Splain how this is nothing more than a short M4 clone that many companies already make in different calibers?
I think I already know the answer to this question but . . . Would anyone here make this his bear gun now that you can load it w/ .45 Colt?
At 499.00 MSRP for a non-ported Aluminum, the price is getting closer to something I would consider paying, but the gun would have to retail for under 300.00 for me to actually go for it.
I keep a list of “wanted items”. An item makes the list if:
1) It fills a percieved gap in purpose or personal experience (i.e. purpose: don’t have SHTF carbine; i.e. personal experience: never owned a single-action revolver.)
2) I think it is sexy.
3) I can afford it.
Then, I let the list just sit. I know myself well enough to know I suffer from “flavor of the day” syndrome. I save myself impulse purchases that way. It also keeps me from being too lusty of things outside my means (i.e. Volquartsen Evolution at $3800 sure is sexy, but was quickly removed from list).
If a gun stays on my list for a while, then I’ll shop. Online for price ballparks, then try and find a local outlet. I allow myself 1 to 2 purchases a year. Nearer to 1 now, as my list is getting shorter and accessories/ammo takes up more of the budget. But as they say in the bicyling word: “The right number of bikes to have is ALWAYS “N +1”, where “N” = the number of bikes you currently have…
Having only purchased 4, I’m a relative newbie. Unfortunately, it’s not as easy to demo guns as it is to demo skis (manufacturers should perhaps take a cue from the ski industry here), so I relied entirely on the experiences of others – which means:
1. Wait until a gun has been out and established a track record before considering
2. Let early adopters be your guinea pig
3. Read everything on the whole internet about the gun
4. Watch every youtube video about the gun
5. Cultivate friends who have LOTS of guns and ask their opinion
6. Pay your money and take your chances
Fortunately there’s not a big premium loss from “driving one off the lot” so if you buy it right (at a chunky discount from list) you won’t take a big hit if things don’t work out as you expected.
Yep. I want one.
Jesus, my hand hurts just thinking about firing that thing in 40.
Easy! I see something I really, really want and I ask the wife, “Can I buy X? Please-oh-please-oh-please?”
When she says, “No, we don’t have the money,” I begin to find amazingly creative ways of raising cash. To which she responds, “Great, we can replace those drafty windows with that money.” So we do that. Then I find other creative ways of funding what I want—uh, er, need. At which point I ask, “Now can I buy X?”
Usually by the time I get enough to buy X, I don’t want it anymore; instead, I want Y. So I go to the wife and ask, “Can I buy Y? Please-oh-please-oh-please?”
As a result, I have:
1) A happy wife.
2) New windows in about three-quarters of my house.
3) Two guns.
4) A motorcycle.
(N.B.: If you don’t have that first one, then none of the rest are all that special.)
Agreed. 🙂
I just put a small amount aside every month. Will take me forever to get the money for stuff, but wife can’t complain what I spend it on, since it’s not hurting anything.
Maybe I should get more creative so I can buy her more stuff, haha.
Honestly, I know my process is a bit odd (you’ll see what I mean shortly). FWIW, I already own a nice variety, so I don’t NEED anything in particular. When I decide that I indeed would like to purchase a new gun, I first off make the determination of what category I’d like (pistol, rifle, shotgun, other) and for what purpose (ccw, home defense, hunting) all of which are fairly common.
Next, I set a personal goal that restricts my ability to purchase. For instance, I’d like to buy a .45 semi-auto pistol, but first I’d like to lose 10 lbs and keep it off for 3 months. This serves a couple purposes, one obviously being that it keeps me from buying on impulse, which gives me time to research. I’m also always looking for opportunities to better myself, so it always entails some sort of self improvement (exercise, lose weight, learn a new skill, volunteer, build good habits, etc) so no matter what I end up better off.
This not only makes me happier, but helps improve the impression of firearms on my non gun toting friends. That’s one of the most important aspects of being an avid Pro-2A supporter, to give credence to alternative benefits to firearms.
Next, I find places such as TTAG, The Firearm Blog, etc as a great resource not just for reviews, but even a starting point for lesser known brands and models. I browse through these (and other – aka hunting) forums to compile a list.
I then talk to local experts, primarily friends who have far more experience with a myriad of platforms, which for me is my military buddies. This affords me first hand advice, and gives alternative views that I trust.
A couple big considerations for me is whether it is manufactured in USA, and whether there is a lifetime warranty. I’m always leaning towards American made, so that helps. It isn’t a strict limitation, but one that weighs heavily.
Price plays an important role. As I’ve said, I’ve got the basics covered, thus a firearm must be in my personal price range, which happens to be <$1000, stock. Additions I don't mind paying for separately, as I can acquire them later and as needed.
Lastly, basic customer service not only from the manufacturer, but the distributor makes a HUGE impact on me. For instance, I went to Cabela's looking for a .32 pistol for my father-in-law. The kid behind the counter was maybe my age, but he was a prick when I asked him if they had any. Had he been professional, or perhaps pointed me to another avenue to pursue the pistol, then I'd be MORE apt to purchase from them. Truth be told, that one bad experience was enough to color my perception and I will not be buying from them anytime in the future.
Overall, I'd say that durability, affordability, and availability will always be the biggest contributors to sales.
If an adjustable comb is also an option from Ruger directly, this makes for an attractive purchase option for shooting clays, especially for those of us who would like to buy as much as possible from the U.S. (but who keep falling in love, despite ourselves, with the Swiss, Germans, Italians, Czechs, and Croatians – dagnabbit!).
Step one what will it be used for? If hunting then hunting for what. If competition then for what sport (and at what level). If for personal defense then what is the envisioned use, home defense? Concealed carry? If CC then what time of year and perceived threat level. If antique collectible then where do I need to improve the collection and is the collection a financial investment or just because I want one.( an example there an early Winchester 1890 .22 RF slide action …. I want one as one of them was my first gun… But in fair to good shoot able condition they now push $900 and in collector grade can touch $5,000 I look at that and say the ” cheap ones” are not realy an investment. Then I look at my collection of plinkers pull out the old Weatherby XXII that I sold my own 1890 back in the late 60s to buy… And sigh and say to myself that I am better off with it and its scope with my ageing eyes….)
So huge variables to parse before we even get to compairing makes and models .
Once that process is done Which for me was when I decided to replace the lever action pistol cartridge rifle for my current sport of cowboy action shooting… I had been using a clapped out clone of Winchester 1892 in 38 special. I had bought cheap when I first dabbled in the sport…. But it no longer fit my costume or my desire to shoot black powder.
So we decide we need a pistol cartridge leveraction rifle….
What cartridge? .45 Colt
Ok clone or antique… Clone as competition guns lead a hard life
Which model…. Large choice. Here but the 1873 has the best support for the sport
New or used…. New as the problems with the 92 have put me off used lots of moving parts in a lever action
Ok which clone maker and importer. ( not the same thing some importers are more picky about things like quality control and after sale support) so do the ask the men that own them and get to examine and shoot what is available at matches over the course of a shooting season..
Stock or slicked up for the sport( short stroke kits gun smithing mods etc) and if slicked up DIY or done by specialist gunsmith. In my case I went with a compitition ready rifle from the well known SASS smith LongHunter.
So it can be a long process or on the other hand perhaps you have just cashed your pay check and stop by the local gun shop for 1000 large pistol primers and there on the wall is something that speaks to you at that moment and you buy it.
That later way of buying a gun happend to me a lot when I was in my teens and twenties.
Once I lucked into a case of 7×57 mm ammo for free back in the 1960s and I walked into the shop and said ” give me a 7×57 anything!”
In the case of the 1873 I took a full year of decisions testing and ordering to my spec waiting until I shot a match with the new gun.
So nothing here that any maker can use for marketing.
My advice to them. Build guns that don’t break and don’t jam ( support at the highest level both in speed and quality) and that can be kept looking good without the need of kid gloves and build your company on that reputation and you will be a company that will make money for a long time
No thanks. They will grab my interest when they make it available in 12 gauge.
Read reviews.
Watch on you tube.
Talk to others.
See it. Handle it.
Wait.
Re-assess need.
Learn about ammo reload/availability.
Budget.
Buy.
Would love to see links that really play on you tube with detailed examples on shooting, cleaning, etc on a new model from the manufacturer – these would be cheap and appreciated.
Every 6 months or so I visit a few LGS or Cabelas’s, GT Distributors, etc. and see what’s on the shelves.
I watch the good gun/ammo reviews on YouTube. Hickok45 is one of my favorites.
If I see something I like, and it’s under $1,000, I buy it. If it’s over that I call the wife and ask her. She usually says OK and knows that she’ll be getting a purse or earrings soon after I buy something.
This doesn’t take into account my must have list (Garands, AK’s, FAL’s, historically significant firearms). Those I snatch up as long as the condition is fine and the price isn’t too bad.
What happened to “Intent, Opportunity and Ability”?
The judge is probably elected and is backed by the fop
This is pretty hard to watch; a man being gunned down for, apparently, no reason. As stated in the column, its a good thing a vid captured this.
Bad shoot, clearly. These guys did just about everything wrong that was possible, at least according to the way I was trained.
I wonder if the judge refused to sign a warrant merely as a hedge against a future suit by the officer? I mean, it looks rotten from the surface, but when he gets convicted by a jury, he won’t be able to pull any tricks like claiming the judge was out to make an example of him. I’m not a lawyer and I don’t know if that holds any water, but I’ve heard worse from the court system before.
“There is no way a Dallas cop will face the same penalties a “normal” civilian would encounter if he’d done the same thing. ”
And until this systemic exemption from criminal repercussions is ended, this will continue to be the case.
Can somebody explain to me why shotguns such as these seem so overpriced to me? In terms of the amount of machining, materials and labor required it seems they should be cheaper than say a semi-auto rifle, or even a semi auto shotgun for that matter. Is demand for an over-under shotgun so much lower than an AR, that it drives the price higher? What gives (I don’t know very much about shotgun construction, which is why I’m asking)?
Can has in .308? If yes, please ignore the tent i’m pitching.
We had a similar incident not too long ago in Toronto. A schizophrenic man with a knife was cornered on a bus, there was no-one else on the bus, no one was in danger and the place was surrounded by officers from the OPP. But rather than wait him out or try to negotiate they decided to try and pull some spec-ops s#!t and raid the bus. The man was shot and killed. The officers involved faced no repercussions.
This hyper-aggression “I am the law” BS needs to go. One justifiably employs lethal force only when there is no other viable option.
It sounds to me like some of the boys in blue need more training or better training.
While a criminal who has a knife and initiates a charge within 21 feet absolutely warrants lethal force, a criminal with a knife standing 21 feet away does not warrant lethal force.
Dear Santa….
I have a list which i update as new items come on the market this list then gets modified based on online and youtube reviews of items as well as forums. Major focus for me is Reliability and ammo availability as well as cost to upgrade acessories etc. But I definately do my online research with regards to forums and youtube vid’s before I buy anything
I don’t see a point of a .308 AR with today’s prices, but I’d rather get the PWS MK216 if I was in the market. I love my MK116 in .223 Wylde.
Like above, I also agree that if you truly need .308 power, you should shoot it from a 20+” barrel.
That is because “Police Chief” is more a political appointment these days rather one with serious qualifications. It is more management of budgets and doing what the Mayor wants than actually doing any community policing.– that is what they hire consultants for anyway.
One more reason why government is a joke
Joe Biden demonstrates the proper use of a Glock assault shotgun in an urban environment.
how easy would this be to SBR?
I would have a lot of enemies to deal with, if I were him.
The police are trained as soldiers and anti terrorist first responders. they are no longer trained to protect and serve the community. I they’re eyes everyone is the enemy and trying to kill them. It is the fault of the training as well as a failing of the individual officers.
The Hominoid Strikes Back
Goddard wrote a book called “Living for 32.” I’m writing a book called “Living for 69.” It will be more than twice as expensive and a lot more fun to read.
What does this guy want? A cookie? A medal?
As long as no rules were broken in the transaction, who cares? Now if he was a felon, it would be a different story. And I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. But I don’t think they understand that gun shows aren’t the problem, neither are private sales.
Baboon Command: Ook, ook, ook-ook
Baboon-1: Ook ook. Ook?
Baboon Command: Ook
*BANG*
Baboon Command: Ook? Ook ook, ook-ook?!
Baboon 1: …Ook.
Gung-ho butter bar.
Ah, memories… 🙂
Your concern was accidental viewing of your weapon. There are tasteful leather license holders available, some even come with a CCL badge. You’ve got me thinking I might get one, toss the badge, and wear it on my belt beside my weapon. Texas just passed a law making accidental viewing of a legally concealed weapon a non issue. A badge in most peoples minds is law enforcement. The sight of the ID likely would distract from the weapon, or calm those who saw both.
Switch your wallet over to the left side. Keys too.
My wife is legally blind. Her vision is 20/200 corrected, meaning she sees only shapes beyond around ten feet. As Craig said in his post, “seeing impaired”. In her studio is an ancient baby Browning .25. She has demonstrated to me that she can place three in the x-ring at ten feet. She also knows the location of each of my weapons in the house, and their operation. I could only have hoped that Jimmy Kimmel had asked her onto his show.
When you can no longer laugh at the hilarious… you know you’re loosing it. I don’t know what’s more funny – blind people shooting guns effectively or Jimmy Kimmel making fun of people who encourage the blind that shooting guns is a good idea. You’re loosing it man…..
True the point on profit motive – the same approach saved the American Alligator, but there it still works in concert with legal protections for endangered species. The threat of legal action for poaching, combined with the legal game preserves (or in the case of the American Alligator, gator farms to produce meat and hides) seems to demonstrably work for species that aren’t facing other threat factors (loss of habitat, disease, etc) and having already been pushed too close to the brink to recover.
“What is the law?”
“Ape not kill ape!”
First things first. The firearm must be American made. Second by American owned companies.
Why is that a big deal? You think Austria, Italy, Germany or Russia respects your rights under the second amendment? Do not make me laugh, if you think they do. You are just a dollar bill to these nations. If this cause was near and dear to them their own people would be free peoples, citizens not the serfs and subjects they truly are. The gun owning Americans are just a (big fat) buck and by product of their military and police sales.
I’d rather buy from a firearm manufacturer from behind blue enemy lines than from across country lines or from another nation Cause they are still American and god bless em!
Then I determine if the firearm serves a need or want. Does it complicate my situation? (Like exotic ammo or cause me to break my budget?)
Handgun.
Pistol or revolver?
Longslide, full sized, subcompact, compact, deep cover mousegun?
Shotgun.
What gauge?
Over under? Pump? Double barrel of fun?
Rifle or carbine.
Hunting? Lever action? Bolt action? Semi auto?
TTAG has turned me onto server products like the awesome kyle belts for open carry or just carry in general. Or the belly band combined with my compact handgum when I can’t make my g/fs commiesocialistprogressive family nervous or worse her embarrassed in any social situation cause I’m not like them. (You know free…not sucking on the teat of the government, and love freedom, guns, and don’t vote Democrat ever.)
The best these manufacturers of special and exotic stuff you didn’t know existed is to get to like minded folks on sites like this one and allow the writers to do an honest review of the product.