In the aftermath of the Las Vegas spree killing, the NRA is calling for the ATF to regulate bump fire stocks. No doubt the NRA Powers That Be figured that making them an NFA item was threading the needle: defanging the statists howling for gun control (again, still) while appeasing members who aren’t happy with any gun control legislation. The problem being . . .
gun control advocates are never satisfied, and even NRA members who think “who the hell needs a bump fire stock?” wonder what they’re going to get for giving in to the antis.
Namely, nothing.
Congressman Paul Ryan pulled the silencer-deregulating SHARE Act days after the Mandalay Bay slaughter. And while the NRA’s statement throwing bump fire stocks in the ATF bus called for Congress to take up national reciprocity, the silence on that bill is deafening.
Worse, the media and gun control advocates consider the ATF aspect of the NRA’s recommendation irrelevant. As far as they’re concerned, the NRA has cleared the way for legislation banning the devices. Full stop. They’re not wrong.
It’s going to be a horrible precedent: the first new federal gun control law in more than a decade. A law that could lead to federal investigations and firearms confiscations and God knows what else.
No wonder 2A absolutists like Tim at the Military Arms Channel are livid. More than a few have resigned their membership and sent the NRA an impolitely-worded email. Now that the NRA has tossed gun control advocates a tasty bone, have you given up on America’s oldest civil rights group?
Was never a member and always reminded people of their past betrayals.
Will MAC sell those “Repeal the Hughes” shirts now? He said he was waiting to see how things went with his NRA contacts before selling them.
I gotta believe that there is a better way than the NRA. Seems LaP and the boys just want to stir things up to separate good men with guns from their money. The NRA’s BMOTD (boogie man of the day) effort has lost steam and the constant doom and gloom of the DarkNRA just sucks the life out of shooting sports and twists it into transparent and patronizing propaganda.
So for all I care the NRA can join the likes of video cassettes, film cameras, and typewriters in the dustheap of history.
Survival is optional because change is not mandatory.
Who gives a sh** about bump stocks? They’re a damn novelty item. Idiots buy them (and I suppose the occasional enigmatic mass murder).
People who gripe that the NRA is not pro-gun enough are disconnected from reality. Criticism is sensible. Undermining the 2A’s biggest defender is stupidity. Yes, s-t-u-p-i-d-i-t-y.
We have compromised away rights for decades and received NOTHING in return for those lost rights (GCA68, Hughes Amendment, etc). In what Bizarro universe do you expect this to be any different? This isn’t “just” about bumpfire stocks. Holding them off on this battle keeps them from spending time and resources on magazine bans and worse. 2A is not negotiable any more. Wake up!
Remember that time everyone was pissed off at Cheaper Than Dirt and swore they were gonna boycott forever and then CYD went bankrupt?
Or maybe it was UnderArmour…
Despite CTD being local I haven’t frequented them since. Nor Under Armor.
And I haven’t stepped foot in an Academy since their Orlando fiasco.
Try again.
What happened at Academy?
Yes,… we do remember. Which is why I dont go to CTD.
Given up, no. But I’ve never considered the NRA a one stop shop, they simply don’t do enough to fight all the anti gun forces out there, especially at the state level. I’m also a member of NAGR and GOA, as well as a local entity OFF here in Oregon. If you’re not happy with the NRA, speak up and push for changes in policy, you know kinda like voting for Trump?
“….they simply don’t do enough to fight all the anti gun forces out there, especially at the state level.”
Ya mean like the commies and their victim group identity politics for whom nothing is ever really done??
Yeah, I’m a 2A absolutist. ALL GUN LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Period. Until they get this and support it, the NRA is a self-perpetuating money funnel that gets none of my money. Just like the commies.
Well said, Travis !!! I, too, have no time for the NRA.
They are simply to accommodating on to many issues.
No such thing with the Gun Owners of America and it is
why we are lifetime members.
The GOA does not the support the ban on bumpy stocks, period.
BTW, where are all of the liberal handicap groups for which this
item was approved for ??????????????????????? Where is
Barrocko ??
May God bless of all the victims in Lost Wages. Satan, is now
welcoming his latest inductee, for his Massacide.
Yes, until they change their tune.
If there is ONE gun protected by the 2nd amendment it is the select fire M4. How can the NRA not underst and this is the end goal in addition to national carry. Their statement is a huge step backwards.
The only way I would be okay with the NRA supporting bump fire regulation is if they used it as a bargaining piece to get a greater piece of legislation such as national reciprocity or a national reversal of all state gun/magazine bans for any weapons not prohibited at the federal level.
As it stands right now, we gain nothing from this transaction. America didn’t give Republicans complete control of government because we wanted gun control. We wanted gun freedom. Any legislation that does not more the freedom needle forward is unacceptable in my eyes.
I would never ever trade bump-stocks for those. NEVER. But I’m ambivalent to using them as a foot-in-the-door for opening the machine gun registry. If the NRA doesn’t advocate “bans” as they say, the only other option is incorporating them into the NFA.
As I understand it the attorney general can open the registry to an amnesty any time he desires, still waiting Mr. Sessions!
If so suddenly people would discover they had a bunch of machine guns they forgot to form 1, whoops, better get those forms in!
And yet they also said they wanted the ATF to “re-xamine” them, as though we have no idea how the Federal government works.
Maybe the NRA actually knows how the Federal Government and Congress works.
Congress can drag their feet on any ban while the ATF reviews their current policy regarding bump stocks.
Maybe the NRA knows the the ATF, in six months time, will come to the conclusion that their existing policy for bump stocks is correct.
Now, six months have gone by and Congress has moved on; therefore, no regulations or bans.
The way to victory when at a PR/political disadvantage like the current situation is to delay and obstruct any actual action until such time that the public has moved on to another crisis du jour.
Who gives a sh** about bump stocks? They’re a damn novelty item. Idiots buy them (and I suppose the occasional enigmatic mass murder).
I would let the dems melt down every bumpstock in the world to get national reciprocity.
NO. F*CKING. DEAL.
NOT ONE INCH will be given. The ONLY way we found to this far is with CONSTANT legislative and legal action against on law at a time. Giving ANY ground is beyond unacceptable.
I’m waiting for things to play out. What I’m HOPING they’re trying to do is to use this as a wedge to reopen the machine gun registry but I’d bet those odds are 1:1000000 of that being the case. Most likely just cucking out.
Politicians aren’t going to do something that makes real full-auto weapons easier to get in the wake of an event where someone used a device that halfass-simulates full auto to kill a bunch of people. Not even the pro-2A ones are going to do that.
IMO, the main thing that needs to come from this is teaching the Democrats that if they want to pass a new gun law, they have to give up something to get it.
Back in the old days, all they had to do was wave a bloody shirt and the Republicans would roll over and submit.
Signed up for a heavily discounted, pay as you go, lifetime membership years ago. Reached out to them today to find out about how I go about revoking it.
I haven’t given money in years because I learned about past betrayals after the fact of becoming said life member.
Those who give up liberty for perceived safety or benefits are not on my “to give to” list.
The states need to go the way of Catalonia…if that wasn’t apparent before it surely is now.
No need for drama or bloodshed, just peaceful divorce. Why would anyone want to be part of a “union” when fully half of the population wants to restrict the other half’s rights continually? And that’s on both sides of the political coin, not just one.
The NRA is to me is what PETA is to animal rights. There are so many other gun rights groups that aren’t as screw ball as the NRA that I’ll gladly go for them.
But like PETA you can’t deny the brand name alone can sometimes get the job done.
That’s funny. Screwball is the word that comes to mind when I hear people mention the other 2A groups.
They have little money, fewer members and no influence. They misappropriate funds and have accomplished nothing.
Criticism is of the NRA is sensible, but they are the best-funded, have the most influence and they actually accomplish things.
The NRA certainly DOES accomplish things:GCA68, Hughes, ‘assault’ weapons ban, etc.
They have “accomplished” more gun control through the years than Brady and Shannon put together.
For all of you bashing the NRA and threatening to leave, you better rethink that. GOA, of which I’m a member, is laughably weak next to the NRA. If the NRA implodes, you can kiss your rights good bye. The NRA is far from perfect, we all know this. However, they are still the lobbying juggernaut and we are better off with them than without them.
Still waiting to see if there was a master plan here. They are very shrewd at working inside the beltway. They may just know something we don’t…
The NRA has proven time and time again, that they fail spectacularly at playing the long game. The NRA just moves from one life support message to another.
Time to move on and see what else is possible. Think if we never left alta vista for google, or never took glock seriously. The NRA is no longer relevant. It’s a historical footnote that has yet to fully die. Being the only game in town no longer holds water in this digital world. We can see the light elsewhere.
Comical. So many other relevant groups to choose from. You should entertain us by listing the 2a groups that are more relevant than the NRA.
I’m pretty sure the ‘master plan’ is to kick it over the the bureaucracy as a delaying tactic, and when ATF comes back saying ‘previous classification is upheld’ passions will have cooled and something else will be dominating the headlines.
The NRA leadership does screw up on occasion, but they are generally shrewd about how DC works.
I agree with you.
Ok. Cool. So the NRA is deep in the swamp too. Whatever.
Personally, I’d like to see something more stable and resilient than the NRA’s manicured toenails standing firm about some esoteric gun law, yet folding like a punctured inner tube when an Obama era (of all things) decision might be questionable. Talk about wet paper! If the NRA is playing a game here, they might want to start from a position of power since their paltry 3.5M members are more donors than carers.
The NRA is just the big man on campus. But hardly the effective man on campus. If the US Government can stomp on the 2A because of a plastic stock, then imagine what is possible if it focuses on a real target that goes bang once per trigger pull.
Stop screwing around and hold your ground! Otherwise just roll over and give up.
If everyone who cancels their NRA membership supports the GOA, that issue disappears. You created a self fulfilling prophecy by putting all money into the NRA and then complaining that other groups don’t have more money.
Google GOA’s arguments in the Heller case. My understanding is that they were practically laughed out of the court room…
Exactly. I support the GOA, but if anyone thinks we can just replace the NRA they are fucking retarded. Support ALL the gun groups. Those who leave the NRA are shooting themselves in the foot.
Bullshit. I’m a member of ALL gun rights groups. Don’t bring me that pussy attitude. We need all the groups, but the NRA is the most visible and the most known and if they go the way of the Do Do, then the left has won. Ask your average person if they’ve heard of the GOA or NAGR? They haven’t. EVERYONE in the country has heard of the NRA.
And I never hear the Anti’s bemoaning GOA or NAGR. Pretty much defines their irrelevancy.
To add to what you saying if the NRA is SOOOO bad for gun rights then why is the anti gunners so afraid of the NRA?
NRA is the “dowager empress” of the gun-rights movement. As such it has a deep and wide organizational structure and history that has it’s share of warts and scabs. But, while it is undoubtedly a venerable kind of place—with all that implies—it is also the most stunningly effective single-issue lobbying force in American politics. There is simply nothing else out there that can match the NRA’s ability to speak directly to both elected Democrats and Republicans and cause them to have their “come to Jesus moments” when they realize the sheer millions of NRA members who will vote against them. Simply put there are no other gun-rights organizations that can do what the NRA can do. As long as that factoid remains true, they’ll continue to get my money.
Very well written Garrison. It saddens me that so many short sighted “hot heads” who fail to realize this. They are only hurting our cause by leaving the NRA. They need to get over their fragile egos and suck it up that there is no organization that is a utopia. The NRA is the best we have. Period. I will continue to support the SAF and GOA, while being a proud lifetime member of the NRA.
You are right.
YES!!!
Here we go, believing the propaganda put out by the antis again. “The NRA is the evil holdup. They stop every good thing we want to do…”
Yeah, like they stopped the Hughes amendment, the NFA, GCA 68, etc.????
OR they may, just may, be smart enough to know that Feinstein would blow the whole effort up by introducing legislation that will surely go beyond bumpfire stocks, thus killing the entire discussion. I say hold off on the pitch forks until we know if some master plan was afoot. What’s the difference if you wait a few days to see where it’s going? We always admonish the lefties for their knee jerk reactions…maybe we should follow our own advice.
If the NRA were willing to pull a Xanatos gambit:
Ask the ATF to re-evaluate bumpfire stocks to buy time.
Feinstein predictably introduces a ban that is far too vague and broad.
Bipartisan coalition introduces a narrow bumpstock law that reclassifies as machineguns, re-opens registry for an amnesty.
Feinstein ban never gets out of committee.
Exactly. Her legislation purposes to begin regulating trigger design, something that has never been regulated before.
Yep. I’m waiting to see how this all shakes out. If the NRA really screws the pooch, then I don’t renew. But until the result becomes apparent, I’m going to watch what they say and do.
Agree. They need the time and space. I’d still like to see the SAFE act before 2020. In fact, before 2018 would be greatly preferred.
I got into shooting around 2010 and joined the NRA. I canceled my membership after the endorsed the insanely anti-gun Mitt Romney and they flat out lied about his anti-gun record by trying to claim the the scary looking weapons ban he supported was somehow a good thing for gun owners and reduced gun control. The NRA are a gun control group that pretends to be pro-gun. They collect money to “fight gun control” while supporting gun control to ensure they constantly have money coming in.
“. . . The NRA are a gun control group that pretends to be pro-gun . . .” Twaddle.
Yeah, the NRA endorsed Romney in 2012.
Remind me again, who was the alternative?
They picked the less-bad choice, which is pretty routine in politics.
Support for the lesser of two evils, is still support for evil.
Quote Farrago: “NRA is calling for the ATF to regulate bump fire stocks”
This is false.
Chirs Cox vehemently denied this fake news on the tube last night.
You can go to the NRA’s website and read it yourself. The NRA wants the ATF to ban bump fire stocks.
That is not at all what it says..and you know it
They literally said that they want the ATF to “reclassify them”. They’re currently legal, the only “reclassification” would be to make them illegal…which is a ban.
The NRAs official statement is, AND I QUOTE:
“The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations,”
What other ‘spin’ do you think you can put on that? That maybe “additional regulation” really means LESS regulation? Small is the new big? Up is down? That having a penis doesn’t really mean male, but female if I just say it?
B freekin S
The ATF&E is a regulatory Steam Roller on a hill. The NRA is just ‘rolling friction’ not an actual “chock”. If the NRA reduces to zero (a sad small leap) the ATF&E’s rolling friction THEN IT FING ROLLS ! ! !
WTF do you think “‘Worthy of Additional Regulation’” means ? !
He can deny it today all he wants, but what he said yesterday is in print and on video for all to read and see. Backpedalling now doesn’t change the facts.
The NRA is a useful tool, but they are in no way the champions of the 2A that they claim to be.
Ultimately the only real option is to be a complete ideological absolutist about the 2A. Otherwise you will be slowly walked into having it stripped a bit at a time, which is exactly that the anti’s have said was their intended when someone got a hold of the internal documentations from Handgun Gun Control Inc. back in the 90s, back before it was the Brady Campaign.
Name me one group that is stronger and that has done more for us than the NRA? It all boils down to money and lobbying experience and they have the most. We need them.
What’s the downside to the NRA taking one in the teeth (being “labeled by the POS members of the Legislative Branch and the MSM as “Supporting Murder” ???”) ? FDAT, too late, you’ve already lost that PR battle.
NRA push-back should have been 5,000,000% The argument is SIMPLE too.
If aholes [up to and including our government] are going to use ANYTHING against us, THEN WE NEED (AND DEMAND) PARITY. Done. It doesn’t matter how EFFECTIVE – OR – DANGEROUS IT IS, AS WE DEEM IT (VERY LOGICALLY) TO BE MORE DANGEROUS TO BE BANNED FROM IT BY AN AGENCY (again, our POS ahole neighbors who needed a job) WHO HAVE AN UGLY VESTED INTEREST IN RESTRICTING US TO MAINTAIN THEIR POWER.
UNDUE PERIL SHOULD BE WEIGHTED WHOLLY ON THEIR END. IF YOUR GOVERNMENT FEARS YOU AND HAS LESS IT CAN DO ABOUT IT – THEN YOU ARE RIGHT IN THE SWEET SPOT FOR AMERICAN GOVERNANCE.
AND YOU AND YOUR NEEDS SHOULD BE ASSUMED TO OUTLIVE EVEN THE IDEA OF AMERICA SHOULD THE PENDULUM OF PERIL EVER BE DEEMED BY YOU TO BEGIN TO SWING BACK YOUR WAY.
The NRA is in a tough situation having been put there by gun community zealots who thumb their noses at the ATF through law-skirting bump-fire stocks, shoulderable “arm braces”, Shockwaves, permanently attached extended flash suppressors, and “solvent traps.” Each of these devices is designed to thwart the NFA through a ‘careful’ reading and ‘interpretation’ of the law.
To excoriate the NRA for trying to split the baby will lead to gun rights being lost—not gained. Bump fire stocks are nothing more than external user-driven mechanical full auto sears. Arm braces are purposefully used to get around SBR restrictions. Calling a SBS not a shotgun is disingenuous. An extended flash suppressor (Sig) is the baffles of a suppressor. A solvent trap is nothing of the sort.
The NRA says quit playing cute and work to change the law so there is no gray area that will come back and bite you. Grow up, boys. If 59 dead doesn’t convince you, what will?
I stand with the NRA on this one.
Since you stand against the Second Amendment, you should at least put your money where your mouth is and sell your guns.
This sounds like the perfect argument for why the NFA is pointless and should be repealed.
Bullshit like what this guy is spewing is why I despise FUDD’s. Don’t worry grandpa…your pump action shotgun is safe…until the gun banners get around to banning that too.
Thanks for inciteful comment and discussing the facts.
You’re welcome asshat. Don’t you have some vintage barrels to finish blueing?
Don’t blame everything on the Fudds. Lots of these are just agitators on bloomberg’s payroll.
Ask Mr. B a question that a real gun guy would be able to easily answer. Like; “What caliber do you like for whitetails and why?”, or; “do you hunt with bolt actions or lever guns? Which do you prefer, and why?” See if he waffles around the issue, or just cuts and pastes an answer from wikipedia.
That’s how I expose the paid trolls anyway.
This made me chuckle—a big belly rolling deep throated holly-jolly jiggly roaring chuckle! I’m wiping my eyes that’s so funny!!!
You’ve taken the anti-gunners argument so much to heart that you define gun rights only as they pertain to hunting and “sporting purposes.” Hilarious!!!
Does everyone note that David B read the questions, and made fun of them, but waffled around the issue(as I predicted!) while ignoring it?
It’s obvious David B. is a troll. Popped up post Vegas incident and acts like a regular. In fact I think he posts multiple times with different names like some of the other drive by trolls we see so often. Bloomy plant here to cause divisiveness.
Yeah, he’s pretty obvious. I just like getting them to admit it. It gives me a chuckle to watch them squirm around…
I’ve been with TTAG since shortly after it’s inception, but like many, have quit commenting due to the vicious vitriol rampant in the comments by malcontents, atheists, and trolls masquerading as patriots and 2A zealots. Come back tomorrow to read the rest of this comment once you look up those bigly words and realize I’m not insulting you—just stating facts.
Where is the outrage that 59 people lost their lives because of bump stocks that the gun community wrote off long ago as a novelty? And, which by the way, many of us, long ago, when they first came out, predicted would happen.
Instead, you direct your anger at the largest guns rights organization? Really? This is the equivalent of the abused wife shooting the responding law enforcement officer. (If you are an abused wife, please find help. I’m not making light of your situation—just stressing the seriousness of it.)
Fight for gun rights against the enemy—not within the camp.
And there is the results of the NRA error. The bump stock killed all those people. Not a crazed individual who wanted to kill people but it was the hunk of plastic that did it. Narrow minded people focusing on gun control proving they dont give a damn about the deaths. if they did they would be trying to find a solution of identifying mass murders before they kill.
1 an individual with no regard for human life
2 that person decided to kill a bunch of people
3 that person decided to use a gun
Take the gun away and number 3 now becomes a bomb, poison, gas, 18 wheeler, night club fire, etc. you have saved a single life only changed the manner of their death.
NRA should push for NFA reform then, since there’s so many bullshit ways around it, the laws make no sense (ex a pistol can be used as a rifle and returned to pistol configuration but if you turn a rifle into a pistol you are a FELON!)
the NFA needs a complete rewrite, with much of it taken out, and they had the chance to push for just that instead of bending over.
No, but I am NOT happy with them. ATF isn’t going to revisit, in large measure because they got kicked around so much over the pistol brace thing. They are going to just let Congress fight it out, which means what NRA did was tactically stupid, because it cut the legs from under some of our less than courageous Congress critters.
I don’t think that’s as stupid as it looks. It’ll die on the congressional floor for sure as there is no way the two sides will agree. Guessing this was part of the master plan…
Sure hope you are right!
There’s the world the way people want it to be, then there’s the world the way it is.
Liberals, social justice warriors, snowflakes, and apparently a good deal of gun owners live in the former. The NRA exists in the latter.
Not yet. I’m waiting to see what they have to say at congressional hearings. Or if they will be allowed to speak at all. Congressional hearings in the past have been just a puppet show for evening news.
Obviously. And having Nancy, DiFi and Scheamer over for Sunday Brunch.
NO I’m not a kneejerk idiot. Let the thing play out. We don’t even know who was assisting the terrorist.
Bailed out years ago, and what they’ve done recently only tells me I was right.
Wayne LaPewPew can go chow down on a bag of d!ckz.
(Dwayne) LavalPierre is a better name for him.
I don’t like being used by Wayne LaPierre to promote “regulation” which typically leads to some sort of ban and/or unreasonable amount hoops and cost to obtain a piece of plastic similar to a suppressor. You can’t be two face and say suppressors should be an accessory but treat practically a gimmick device like the “bump stock” as a destructive weapon.
The problem is what is the NRA going to help ban when the news media starts to show videos of people “bump firing” ARs with just rubber bands? The semi-auto guns are the only things left to ban. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=ZkF2wish5I8
“or any other device” -difi
Oopsy. Can’t ban rubber bands. Lets see, what else might I be able to take away?
Perhaps… all semi-automatic firearms?
Scroom Wayne LaPierre and Pete Brownell! Those two backstabbing sumbitches are dead to me! I’m with Mac from the Military Arms channel, he tried to help them get YouTube guys involved in the NRA it was Pete Brownell at the helm of that operation I’ve seen Iraqi veteran 8888, the guy from tactical toolbox all get whisper away this last week and taken to Florida for a full auto machine gun shoot Mac was not one of them. I think Wayne LaPierre must have had a freaking stroke. I was on the phone with the NRA for an hour and 47 minutes was hung up on three times transferred a half a dozen times all trying to cancel my life membership. They finally told me after calling back for the third or fourth time that I had to send a regular letter to their headquarters to cancel my membership with the reason why I was canceling. I told the people on the phone on at the NRA it’s not rocket science when you turn your back on the Second Amendment and you run with liberal-progressive anti-gun crowd we will leave you in the dust. You might be the oldest civil rights organization in the world but it doesn’t mean you’re immune to fail. Somebody needs to find out what the hell is wrong with Wayne LaPierre that guy is got a freaking screw loose and needs to quit the NRA and they need to find somebody with a real set of cajones to run it instead of these weak minded no ball having excuses for men.
Right on DJ!
The NRA-ILA and other pro-gun forces are playing three dimensional chess against very determined, and emotions-fueled opponents.
Play smart. Politics isn’t always black and white.
Putting a novelty accessory into the NFA (or even banning it, in exchange for National Reciprocity and/or Suppressor legalization for the masses with tax stamps) is not a hill worth dying over.
No guns that you would use to defend yourself or family are being lost here.
John
I’m concerned the NRA is just going to give in to them without a fight or us getting anything in return.
They certainly should not be complicit in simply handing the grabbers an unearned victory.
I will wait and see how this develops.
Yeah. Just throw the wolves a bone or two now and they will settle down to a reasonable ‘compromise’. Said Neville Chamberlain to the nazis. You ARE aware of how well(or rather, badly) that that strategy worked out for the UK in 1938, are you not?
Did you all hear Hillary on late.night TV telling us all how different things would be if she were President?
The NRA is the primary reason she isn’t.
People who bail on the NRA are shortsighted and stupid. The absolute last thing we need right now is a civil war inside the 2A community.
Exactly! That’s what the left wants. Trump won because of the gun voters…the NRA. Period. Anyone who leaves the NRA is a traitor. I don’t care how imperfect they are, they are our most powerful weapon and anyone that thinks GOA or any other group can do as much is a naive imbecile. Support all gun groups as well, but don’t favor the GOA/NAGR over the NRA or you might as well go throw your AR and AK into the lake right now…
No military would adopt a weapon, however potentially useful it was, if it backfired as often as the NRA has.
Besides, the NRA doesn’t have to be the biggest, most powerful gun rights group. The money that stops going to them hardly vanishes.
Imbecilic logic. You would rather have NOTHING than the NRA? Fool.
No, I’d have the GoA, who haven’t sold us out dozens of times. This irrational attachment to the NRA has to end.
Name one thing the GOA has done at the federal/state/local level. No one even knows they exist outside the gun community. Frankly, there are probably even lots of gun owners that never head of them. They are irrelevant in spite of being around since 1975!!! I support them as well as the NRA, but you are truly delusional if you think they can take things over at the legislative level if the NRA goes away. GOA doesn’t know how to play the game and if they haven’t gotten a foothold by now (42 years since forming), it is highly unlikely they will in your lifetime.
Mark says:
Do what I say right now! My way or the highway! Anybody who disagrees is a traitor! Traitors and anybody I don’t like should be killed to death!
I am not a crackpot…..
/sarc off… for now/
Oh dear Kenneth. You are free to leave the NRA and yes you are a traitor, but nowhere in my post do I promote violence. I just speak the truth. If you fail to see that without the NRA you wouldn’t have a gun, that’s your problem not mine.
I was being sarcastic, not literal. That was the meaning of /sarc off/
But no sarcasm now, you said; “No one even knows they[GOA] exist outside the gun community. Frankly, there are probably even lots of gun owners that never head of them.”
That means that you think the NRA is good, simply because the antis ‘free’ MSM press has said their name on air a lot.
That is why the NRA is a household word, because the antis themselves have made it so. But name recognition does not deeds make. Can YOU name a single thing that the NRA has ever done FOR gun owners? Because I can(and already have right on this page) name a whole bunch of things they have done TO us….
/sarc on/ Your move in this chess game… /sarc off/
🙂
http://www.businessinsider.com/state-laws-nra-right-to-carry-gun-control-2013-4
The NRA is the 600lb gorilla in the room. Can’t be ignored. Make your voice heard, vote for board members that think and act the way you prefer. At the same time, support the other civil rights groups that you believe are moving in the right direction. SAF, GOA, NAGR, state and local organizations. Hell, if you use Amazon, you can have Bezos send money to the SAF by using smile.amazon. A difference can be made.
NO! Hell no! I stand with the NRA. A lot of STUPID gun owners are cutting their own throat😡
NRA tactic: Say something, do nothing. Watch what happens folks. IF the NRA comes out and says we support banning them, then you’ll have something to blame the NRA for. Until then, what they’ve asked for is a delay, which is all this needs to blow over. Americans have short attention spans. Next week Trump will be evil again and consuming all their energy.
I am absolutely livid with the NRA over this. But right now, there is one reason, and one reason ONLY, why I am not going to turn my back on the NRA completely (yet). And that reason is because:
The NRA is still the most hated gun rights organization by all the leftist scum that infest our country. Schumer, Clinton, Pelosi, et al still name the NRA as one of their most dangerous enemies. They don’t talk about the GOA or the SAF. Only the NRA. That alone is why I’m not ready to bail on the NRA yet. But they’re on extremely thin ice with me.
Nancy Sinatra calls for firing squad of murderous NRA members. I’m scared. Feds may not do anything to keep me safe from her.
Agreed. Nothing more terrifying than a washed up 77 year old woman.
There are many reasons why I don’t fear Nancy Sinatra, but none of them have anything to do with the fact that she and I are the same age.
Some of us have been fighting for gun rights since before many of you were born.
I am not an absolutionist. I think to be, on many topics, is a mistake.
I consider the NRA to be much closer to the views of the average American gun owner, than almost any other organization. It’s a bit much on the political spectrum than I care for. Still, I accept it for what it is. As I do the 2nd Amendment Foundation. I’m a member of both.
If you wish to abandon it, more power to you. I’ll stay a member…for the time being.
was a member for a few months. did some reading on them and realized they are just a attack dog for the gun industry companies and couldn’t care less about individual rights.
I am actually with the NRA on this. Think what you will of me, but I do not believe that bump stocks have any legitimate purpose, including insurgency, other than indiscriminate slaughter, i.e. terrorism.
Or maybe to prevent future tyranny since the Govt completely has us outgunned. You know, the framers original intent.
I have no issue with bump stocks, but in a SHTF situation, I’m running semi-auto all the way. Accuracy baby! : )
Bumpstocks have even less purpose than that. They are a range toy and their utility does not extend past that, thus, banning them is a useless gesture to begin with.
If the shooter had fired 400 rounds of aimed fire into the crowd of 22,000 instead of spraying with a bumpfire stock (Undoubtedly many of these rounds missing an entire country music concert) the death count would have been appallingly more severe.
Remember also that the several hundred injured number isn’t how many he shot, it’s how many were injured (which includes the panicing mob shoving its own members aside or underfoot)
Dropped the NRA long ago for their support of harry reid.
You mean when they refused to endorse him after Sandy Hook? Or when IF he had lost as head of the Senate then Chucky Schumer would have taken over (you know, the position in the Senate that controls what comes to the floor). Keep playing checkers…they’ll keep playing chess…
Hey truth about guns, Pete Brownell has been behind talking to a lot of the gun tube channels on YouTube and getting the hosts of those shows to become NRA members and participate in generating new members and revenue for the NRA. I’ve seen lately Iraqi veteran 8888 and the guy from the Tactical toolbox and many others all fly to Florida where I live paid for by Pete Brownell to shoot machine guns out of helicopters and at a gun range here in Florida a private one last week. So it seems Mr Brownell has been trying to get the really well-known YouTube channels to represent the NRA and what I’m calling a mini Grassroots campaign. I think he has taken advantage of all of you guys. Getting you to pull in your new Young crowd of Watchers and viewers to bring them into the NRA and at the same time push for more gun control. What a hiphopcrisy!
You really believe we’d be better off without the NRA? Really? (shaking my head….)
You mean he was out there trying to pull more members in? OH MY how terrible. You mean trying to get a larger voting bloc so that instead of playing political games the NRA could just point to 10, 15, 20 million delivered votes and say “do everything we want”. How awful. Face it, because of apathetic, non members such as yourself the NRA is in a position that forces it to try to weasel through the world of politics. WHICH BY THE WAY they seem to have done nicely as DiFi has already come out and tried to take this out of ATF’s hands and put it into legislation WHICH WILL Certainly die on the floor, possibly committee as they gun grabbers add more and more…NRA wins again. You’re just not bright enough to see it.
I agree 100% Rman. Wish all of us could see this. We are our own worst enemy. If every gun owner in the country joined the NRA, we’d have the left by the short hairs.
I’m still going to support them. They don’t do everything right, but they do enough to make my donation worthwhile.
I called the NRA to cancel my membership. Several points: I was in hold for over 30 mins. The message I heard while on hold was “we protect you from the anti gun forces”. I’m paraphrasing, but I found it ironic that it’s the NRA that I fear right now. I called the ILA # 800-392-8683 when I said I wanted to cancel, the ILA didn’t ask why, just transferred me to member services. When member services finally answered they said I had to write them a letter to revoke my membership. What a bunch of bullshit. The are just like congress and other bureaucrats. But with a big difference. I can withhold financial support from the NRA. Perhaps they will get the message. I doubt it. This certainly is not the first time the NRA has actively supported gun control.
You should call the number for no other reason than to listen to the irony in their on-hold messages.
If you REALLY want to make heads roll, ask the businesses that donate to the NRA to stop, at least temporarily, their donations in wake of the betrayal. If enough people do it, even if the donations don’t stop someone VERY high up the chain is going to get an earful about their shitty decisions. This kind of plan nearly killed Gawker before Hogan inflicted a more immediate cause of death.
As the old saying goes, “Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good enough.” The question is how good enough the NRA is at any point in time.
Withdrawing support from the largest gun rights organization in the country is stupid no matter how you look at it. Voice your opinions and write in but don’t yank support as it does nothing but weaken our position overall. I’m not saying I want bump fore stocks banned but its an accessory. Sorry but this is not the issue I am going to sabotage the NRA for.
MAC is being very irresponsible on this one. Get a grip guys.
Agree.
Want to be a 2A purist over range toys? Go join the GOA.
Want to be a part of an organization that while not perfect has the biggest voice in the arena and trying to thread a needle on a tough situation? Stay with or join the NRA. The Anti’s are just loving how you all are reacting, yeah go weaken the NRA for them?
As Hickok45 said, think twice before falling on this particular sword. Save it for more important battles.
That’s the whole point. The NRA wants to be a voice, but they sell themselves like their the teamsters with bats, and then they come out conceding a point not yet in-question just so they can ‘fight-their-way-back’.
When is the NRA going to stand up and say “We represent the gun owners. NO, we’re not sending Congress or the Senate, or any other lobbying agency any money, we’re just going to let the first part of our statement sink in for a second before we say, uphold the Constitution, or else.” Done.
Drop dead traitor? Yeah, definitely seems mentally stable.
No more money to the NRA for me.
We have been trying to emphasize for years that’s it’s not the gun, it’s the killer. The NRA just said “well it really was the gun after all”, opening the doors for a downhill slide that will be near impossible to correct.
+ This.
When is the NRA going to get that, if they just went for broke on a few simple things, they could represent a LOT more gun owners, AND MORE OF THE INDUSTRY.
Instead, the NRA limps-in to the small blind, FOLDS, and says ‘take our chips’.
I bailed on the NRA and Guns & Ammo. There are many great women out there and they both picked Dana Loesch to be part of their organizations. If they need people of such low character, then they don’t need me.
Dana Loesch is better than the NRA. That’s not saying much, but. . .
My membership ended last month & the plan was to renew when suppressors or CC reciprocity passed. Now I think I’ll just join GOA. . . . right after I send the NRA an email.
No. For all their faults, the NRA knows how to wield their influence in the halls of Congress better than any other lobby in DC. They get more results with less money than the top 20 lobbying groups (by funds), and there is no other pro-RKBA group that swings a club of their weight.
NRA bailed on me. And 8+million other CA gun owners. So I give them no money.
If it wasn’t for the NRA there wouldn’t be a gun left in America, and if you don’t know that you’re a horse’s ass.
I remember 1986 ,I thought Great I don’t have to give my ID to buy handgun ammo anymore and I don’t need a machinegun anyway. Years later I get interested in collecting military arms and guess what class III arms are not affordable anymore and anything made or imported after 1986 is not transferable to individuals. OOOOPS !!
They came for the machine guns and I did not speak, because I was not a machine gunner.
OOOPS, indeed….
But you realize that was a mistake now. Good for you. We are waking up, one mind at a time. Winning is only a matter of time, because once awake, a mind does not go back to sleep. No matter what the mindless chanters say.
C’mon, the NRA has been selling out gun owners for decades, why would it be any different now ?
I just renewed my membership. Thank you for the reminder. Find me an organization that is at least as effective in keeping liberals out of office and they will get my money, too.
Sluggo, the NRA has been keeping anti-gunners in office for years, now. They support turncoat incumbents over pro-gun challengers on a regular basis in state elections and probably more. Open your eyes and see, FFS!!!!!
To all chanting NRA…NRA..(you know who you are….):
“The National Rifle Association has been in support of workable, enforceable gun control legislation since its very inception in 1871.”
—NRA Executive Vice President Franklin L. Orth
NRA’s American Rifleman Magazine, March 1968, P. 22
So there you have it, directly from the horse’s mouth. Now the only question is; How do you think you can ‘spin’ THAT away?
I bailed on the NRA several years ago. After a while, I observed a very consistant and disturbing pattern, where NRA-ILA supported incumbent politicians, notably state-level offices, who may have done something nice for us long years ago, but who have since flipped and worked against gun owners on many critical issues. I began to disregard the NRA’s endorsements because they were endorsing, supporting, and giving undeserved high ratings, to incumbents who had been trying to cut our throats in recent years. I, and several friends and family, contacted NRA-ILA about this damnfoolery and were more-or-less blown off, told they would “look into it”, or similar. Often, NRA-ILA was supporting these turncoat incumbents at the expense of defeating solidly Pro-2A challengers who would have voted for rather than against things we needed such as CWP restaurant carry and more. I contacted NRA then and let them know that I would no longer be renewing when my membership expired as they were no longer representing my interests as a gun owner.
Screw the NRA and their apologists such as Hickok45 and others who keep making excuses for them!
We have a shitty hand on this one, give up the bump stock and fight for the things that matter.
We are not just giving up the bump stock here, y’all really need to look deeper.
For years we have been trying to point out that it’s not the gun killing people, it’s the person pulling the trigger that is doing the killing. By suggesting that it was the bump stock is the same as agreeing that it is the gun and not the killer. Once we go there we cannot turn back and point out it’s not the gun. If you give liberals the bump stock you give them the second amendment, because you are saying it is the gun.
You may was well just say get rid of guns except for the government, because the government is almighty of course, well as long as liberals control it anyway.