Around 10:00 p.m. on October 16 in Clarksville, Kentucky, occupants of an apartment complex were involved in a domestic dispute. That dispute migrated outside to the parking lot, where a man proceeded to violently beat his girlfriend and her daughter, who is under 10 years old.
Hearing the noise, a neighbor stepped outside with a handgun to intervene.
“He did approach the individual who was assaulting the lady and her child and did, at gunpoint, instruct him to leave them alone and sit down on the curb,” said Clark County Prosecutor Jeremy Mull.
The man complied at first, but quickly turned his rage on the neighbor and tried to attack him. After he repeatedly ignored warnings to stop, the neighbor fired, according to witnesses, four or five times. By the time police arrived, the attacker was dead.
Clarksville police have confirmed that this was a case of domestic battery. It’s possible that the woman was attempting to leave the relationship at the time of this conflict. Police Chief Mark Palmer, hasn’t commented on whether he thinks the neighbor’s actions were justified. However, we do know that once the autopsy was completed and witnesses were interviewed, authorities decided not to charge the man with any crimes.
“I do believe that had the individual not stepped in, it would have been far worse for the female that was being attacked,” Palmer said. “It could have been a life-threatening situation for [her] or the child.”
It’s likely that the woman was attempting to extricate herself from the situation at the time of this incident.
“[Victims of domestic violence] are 500 times more likely to be killed at the point that they are leaving the relationship,” according to Marguerite Thomas, VP of the Center for Women and Families serving the Louisville area.
The “good guy with a gun” narrative is a myth meant to scare people into buying guns for self-defense.
The truth? People rarely use guns for self-defense. Read more: https://t.co/JiRK3zkvkl
— Giffords (@GiffordsCourage) July 6, 2018
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Must be “Fake News” because the anti gun lobby says nothing like self defense ever happens.
Point of order. This was not self defense. So we can throw it out.
From the article: “The man complied at first, but quickly turned his rage on the neighbor and tried to attack him.”
At that point, he was under attack and fired in self-defense.
Aside from that, a point of order is used to call the Chair’s attention to and to seek a ruling on and remedy for a violation of procedure, not to dispute the veracity or accuracy of another’s argument.
Ruling: point not well taken.
I’m hoping your comment was sarcasm. If so we all need to stop this type of “humor” about the killing of a human being. This is what feeds the stupid people on the other side of our beliefs. I’ve noticed a lot of tongue in cheek comments on these forums that I understand but that your average still living at home, ANTIFA Democratic Bernie loving and Soros(sp?) funded forum troll probably won’t understand. We are on the verge of a huge red takeover versus the stagnant blue scrum covered pond…. let’s not fuck it up.
a) it was self defense, the citizen who shot the attacker was being attacked himself as well.
b) even in cases where not strictly in defense of self, this body of lethal force law also falls under the general body of’ ‘self defense law,” where most of the code and case law is.
Kentucky White trash or didundonuffin? I need it for my stats.
“Kentucky White trash or didundonuffin? I need it for my stats.”
Must be Indiana White trash since Clark County is in Indiana.
The story says Kentucky. Although it could be Indiana trash who had moved to Kentucky. There are lots of Clark counties in the US. Probably from Lewis & Clark fame.
Science needs to come up with a sticky foam material for spraying onto domestic disturbers and agitated drunks/dopeheads .A goo that takes hours to remove. By the time it’s removed, the disturbers will be too tired to fight. Put it in a large fire-extinguisher bottles. Sell it to the general public, too. Save wasting a valuable cartridge on garbage.
Thank goodness, someone had the balls to stand up for people who couldn’t fend for themselves. I hope the hero and the victims can move forward, without consequences.
I did something similar for a woman who lived next door once. She came knocking on my door asking for help. In my case I never had to clear leather but I did have to physically pry him off of her. After the police showed up and stuffed him in the back of the car she asked the police to arrest me for assaulting her boyfriend. Fortunately the officer laughed at her and informed her that if she wanted to press charges on me she would be spending the night in jail as well.
As much as I try to stick up for those who can not do it themselves, domestic violence is not the same as stopping a mugging, robbery or random assault. If the person being battered won’t call the police themselves there is nothing I can do to help without putting my own family in life altering peril. I’m glad it turned out well for this guy but he could very easily end up being sued by her and her daughter.
Jesus. She asks for help and then wants to press charges when you do?
Mental.
Many women victims of domestic violence will turn against a man who defends them.
My philosophy is to stay out of domestic disturbances. It is always a toxic mess
Still a stupid situation to inject yourself into. If the attacker simply left, what are you going to do, shoot him in the back? What if he comes back with a gun, or worse yet a rifle. What if the attacker calls the cops, you are looking at an assault charge unless witnesses back you up. Did the shooter call the cops, before intervening? Now you are risking cops arriving with you holding someone at gun point. There are a lot of ways this can go sideways in a hurry.
If you are not willing to defend obvious victims of a physical attack, I give you zero credit for carrying a gun. I am not telling you to step into the drunken hobos argument, or the gang bangers jumping each other, but a woman and her child come on man! If he leaves you stay with the victims and provide as much info as you can to the cops, if he grabs a weapon and you don’t know what to do then why do you carry one? You don’t need to wait someone is shooting at you to defend yourself or someone else.
As others have said, I love a happy ending.
Everyone here needs to understand just how much of a risk they are taking getting involved with any domestic fights. Domestic disputes are just flat out nasty. Ask any cop. I just warning people about how bad they can go.
Would I intervene in a similar situation? Depends on a lot of factors. Did I call the cops first, just how bad is the situation? There is assault and then there is assault. A shove or even a slap is a lot different than kicking someone in the head when they are on the ground. Just how much damage is he doing?
As for the shooters strategy. It may be a better idea to get the guy to leave and escort the kid and mom out of there while you have the cops on speaker phone. That would be an interesting discussion on “white knight” strategy on TAG, but it may open up some liability issues.
Binder is right. Intervening in cases where you have no direct interest are fraught with danger. Not saying you should never get involved, but domestics are really hard to figure out even if you know the couple. We have no way of knowing if the shooter in this case knew the couple or fully understood the situation; not everything is as it seems.
Many times the women will deny she was in danger and start screaming at YOU for shooting/killing her husband/boyfriend. In such instances and, others, you are close to being up shytes creek. Again, not saying you shouldn’t do it, just saying that you carry a gun to protect you and your family. LEO’s are paid to intervene and get protections if they use their gun; you don’t.
“Domestics get cops killed”
The call outs for domestics are right up their with traffic stops for situations that go sideways fast.
The parties involved often see it as “their problem” and the beaten partner/victim can turn on the responding officer/citizen because they love them, they need to sort it out, ect. It’s a messed up version of Stockholm Syndrome.
Not victim blaming, domestic abuse is ugly and messes with the victim, its like brainwashing, they’re still the victim. Just keep that in mind that if you elect to take the noble course and defend victim in one of those situations you need to keep your head on a swivel and accept that you now have a primary and secondary combatant until the people with handcuffs and arrest authority get there and take over.
“Not everything is as it seems”
Yeah, maybe the child he was laying a beating on was the aggressor.
Paul, domestics are a completely different crime than other forms of predatory violence. This guy could VERY likely still be sued by the woman and her daughter. More often than not they don’t want their abuser to go away. They just want them to stop what they are doing at that moment. Not a good idea to get involved if you care about your own family.
Who appointed you dispenser of credits for anything?
How about this? I give you no credit for running around with phony morality deciding whose lives are worthy of your intervention and preservation. If a 10 year old kid qualifies, what about an 11 year old? 12? 13? Where is the precise cutoff where you say “Screw ’em” and let them get beaten to death?
And, nooooo, don’t try to turn this around on me and accuse me of urging everyone to play hero and involve themselves everywhere every time. I’ve made no such pronouncements. All I’ve done is ask questions, which you will no doubt ignore or mischaracterize; anything but answer.
Let’s just call the cops who are only minutes away (what could possibly go wrong in 5 minutes or so?) and not do anything else because something may not go smoothly. When you have a case of domestic/dating violence and one of the party involved has already flipped a switch, ill tell you what will most likely go wrong: The victim(s) will receive serious injury or worse, this is more likely to happen than your butt getting in trouble.
Keep this in mind Binder when it’s you or someone you care about. If not for people being willing to step up for the sake of others this country would still be under British control or even worse Nazi control. Sometimes you must do what needs to be done and damn the consequences. Life is full of tough choices. Sometimes you win sometimes you loose. Turning your back on someone in need of protecting when you have the ability to protect them only makes you uncaring or a coward. Because so many people are either to afraid or simply uncaring. This country has devolved into the crime ridden cesspool it is today. Until people say enough is enough and take responsibility in cleaning up the mess we have allowed to fester for far to long. We deserve all the pain and suffering heaped upon our society. At the end of the day each person must choose. Either be a part of the problem by turning a blind eye to the situation of be part of the solution with your actions. I choose to be a part of the solution and damn the consequences. I choose to make a better world for my children. Keep Your Powder Dry…
You nailed it Darkman. As a moral being there are things which cannot be ignored. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. I have a responsibility first to my wife and my children, but that isn’t the only responsibility I have, it isn’t even the only obligation I have. I will not, cannot, stand by while innocents are greatly harmed, or while evil prevails. Better that noble, valorous effort result in my demise than I live a long life as an immoral coward. I’m neither hot headed nor a hero, but there are things which will not be allowed on my watch, even if it kills me. If everyone is only out for themselves, then we have no society. Civil society is the best defense against chaos, which is a major killer. If you won’t protect civil society, good luck protecting your own family.
Evil is all over. A lot of evil just happened, in this country, in your community, just in the two minutes it took you to write about confronting evil. What are you going to do about it?
If someone attacks your loved ones and another stands there with a gun on his hip and a phone in his hand filming it you’ll rethink your position.
The NPR link at the bottom of the article includes “One of the main criticisms of this estimate is that researchers can’t seem to find the people who are shot by civilians defending themselves because they don’t show up in hospital records.”
We recently had a woman, home alone, when two men came on her property and started peering into her windows. She took a pistol, tapped on a window. The men then quickly departed. By the common sense measurement, this was a defensive gun use. (DFG)
Gun control advocates want to count shots fired and bodies with bullets in them. They want to ignore the times when an armed citizen stands ready, and the, assailant backs down. There are two reason for this. First, the DFG that results with bullets in bodies is rare. Second, when the assailant backs down doesn’t often get recorded. By counting bodies in the hospital or morgue, the gun control groups can slant the numbers their way.
Same way they often ignore suicides with guns in their “facts”, thugs getting guns with black market…
I’m sure that the assaulted woman will be happy to pay all of her rescuer’s legal bills. Y’know, just in case the DA is a Democrat.
For the record Clarksville is actually in Indiana just north of Louisville, KY. I guess the staff at TTAG misses little things like the Ohio River.
Hit an UNARMED child, I will cash your check faster than Wells Fargo. -30-
Same here.
Sadly, too many people believe that assault and battery of children is a good thing.
I bet she tools up before the next relationship
While I can sympathize with the shooter in this point, I have a very simple policy on these matters.
Not my monkeys, not my circus.
In most cases, that’s the best policy. But come on…
Are you really telling me you’d sit back and let some rage-addled goblin just keep on punching a 9-year-old girl in the face right outside your front door?
No, I’d call the cops and record the incident so that he spends several years in jail. Assault on a minor doesn’t require the minor in question to press charges.
Uncaring COWARD…PERIOD…You are as much a part of the problem as the scumbag committing the offense. Certainly not the good man willing to step in front of evil in order to stop it…Sad. People like you are the reason our society is devolving farther into chaos everyday. Afraid to deal with evil. Willing to stand behind someone else skirt. Until the dirty work is done. Keep this in mind when it’s someone you care about and no one steps up to help.
I speak for no one but me. If you are punching or otherwise attacking a child while I’m about you are in for a very bad day. I’m not posturing or talking hot air. I know what I’m capable of and to quote more than one witness when my inner red neck came out, ‘That scared the shit out of me’. I keep real control over that guy. But hurt a child and see if I don’t give him free run.
I have killed. I have inflicted enough injury to require medical care. And I’m old enough now that I just flat don’t give a fuck. I’m at an age where I’ve made peace with the fact that I’m going to die. And I’m sure as hell to damn old to tip toe around and worry about what others may say, think or do.
JWM, I’ll be right there beside you. -30-
From the pajama boys perspective…..
“He should have recorded it on his phone to have evidence, and taken the beating when the attacker didn’t want to be recorded.”
Of course the record would be with the attacker after he beat up or killed the bystander, but still there would be no gun violence involved. And NOW this will be listed by the hoplophobes as a gun violence incident, they don’t have a saving a life column to put it in just the general, “A gun was used so it is bad.”
Sounds like 2 D G Us: the women, then the good samaratin, himself.
That’s 2x in a few minutes the same good guy with a gun stopped something very bad in progress, yielding 3 victims less victimized it *because* the gg could intervene.
/sarc
I’m sure there’s an argument for disarming praceful people in there somewhere. Look at how this turned out. Thug guy dead, n his would-be victims not. I mean, who’s life is worth something anyway? Who are we to prioritize the peaceful n responsible over the violent and out of control? (We’ll be told who’s important by our betters.)
Some thug wants to beat a couple women to death in a parking lot, who are we, or D G U samaratin, there, to intervene? Thugs got rights.
Call the police! As someone who has been around firearms all of my life, I would still call the police FIRST!! If it came to a choice between shooting a thug or saving a mother or child, then yeah, I would shoot….I would still hope to see law enforcement on the scene quickly since there are those who seem to think it is their lot in life to persecute anyone with a gun who attempts to intervene in order to help someone else.There will always be cases when calling 911 first may not save the day….personally I reload faster….
Keep in mind the average response time for the police is 8 minutes. When seconds count action may be your only choice if have a conscious.
There is a big difference between getting involved in a petty domestic dispute, and stopping someone from being beaten to death. This was the latter.
I know… I was there. Taking those shots was probably the hardest thing I’ve done in my life.
And Binder, my wife was on the phone with 911 before the shooting happened. Her screaming is what brought me into the situation. I am an MYOB type of person, but there was no way that could have been done in this situation, he would have killed the mom, and possibly the daughter.