Hogg a Pawn for Billionaire Gun Control Lobby
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Lesson of the day: be careful when quoting statistics. Always be confident in your numbers. Who here knows the Massachusetts stats last reported by the FBI?

Massachusetts gun laws and only served to infringe on the civil rights of law-abiding citizens.

The result is that our violent crime is almost 3 percent higher than the U.S. rate. Before Massachusetts invoked these laws, our rate was half the U.S. rate. Putting that in today’s terms, Massachusetts gun laws directly result in over 1,000 extra combined murders, rapes, robberies, and assaults each year. Is this what Hogg and The Sun want for the rest of America?

Hogg has spent the last year traveling the country, and I doubt he has been paying for this trip out of his own pocket. Rather than acting like a pawn for the billionaire gun-control lobby, perhaps he and The Sun should focus their efforts on known way to save lives.

– Al Prescott to The Lowell Sun, Hogg Wants to Strip Gun Owners of Their Rights

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  1. Laser sighting used in Illinois [spun/hoaxed] shooting FRONT AND CENTER this morning on news.google

    You know what’s coming next!

    Quick, dump your Crimson Trace stock !

      • Hoax (noun): humorous or malicious DECEPTION (verb) to deceive with a hoax

        The event may have been quite “real” in whole or in part. It’s the details which are misrepresented, spun, or outright fabricated that represent a hoax. Now grow up, crack open a dictionary or some other nonfiction, and realize that just about everything that makes the mainstream news is a hoax to one degree or another.

        • Please read my post further down in comments regarding Hogg’s emotional injuries and desperate need of mental health care. Then please add all the names of all the people in the world who think any of this shit is a hoax. Please include your own name where you like in the list, it really isn’t a competition to be number one on the hoax whackadoodle bandwagon.

          Besides, Alex Jones has enough trouble with that honor, he doesn’t need your help.

      • Hoax? I just checked with my closet where the guns and ammo are stored. There’s a shelf in there with several thousand rounds of .22 Magnum (.22WMR and even some .22WRF). There’s an old Harrington & Richardson 649 and a newer Ruger American Rimfire that enjoy those cartridges in their diets.

        Not seeing the hoax you speak of?

      • Nonsense. .22 WMR, .223 Winchester/5.56 NATO and – horrors of all horrors – the deadly .22 LR are all high-caliber killers! More lives (of all species) have been lost to the .22 LR than any other calibre.

        • I’d argue that (world wide), 7.62×39 likely holds that title. The pretty much every single war and genocide since WW2 has had that round as a major player. With Mao’s mass killings providing the major leg up over any other caliber. Coming in a close second I would argue 7.62x54R.

  2. Hogg and other leftists just refuse to accept the fact that there’s absolutely zero correlation between gun control and crime reduction. There’s tons of info out there, everywhere, on the subject.

    • Funny, TAG totally disagrees with you. Nevermind NYC low murder rate. City, not state.
      And the fact that there are no restrictions on handguns in Chicago (they account for almost all gun violence) and shall issue carry.
      Yeah there are waiting periods and FOID cards, but it you can pass a background check and actually have $10 to you name you can get one. It’s nothing like the BS in New York, nor a lot of the BS I have had to deal with in other states (I have been in the military and been a resident in 7 states from Arizona to Illinois)

      • That’s flat out not true, Binder. There’s tons, tons of books written on the subject, binder, written by literal experts in crime and statistics. They all came to the same conclusion that restrictions on guns has no effect on a declining crime rate. And no, as far as I know, TTAG does not support the notion that gun control reduces crime either. The only people that support that fanciful notion are leftists like you, Binder, who refuse to look at the facts. Just like I told you the other day, go check out the book “Why Crime Rates Fell”, for starters. “New York’s low homicide rate” (low compared to the 70s), has nothing to do with gun control. No amount of your leftist lies can change the facts.

      • And no one gives a shit that you were in the military and lived in 7 states. None of those things makes you an expert on crime or guns, or laws.

      • I didn’t want to get involved but your comment is so blatantly full of disingenuous crap I have to say something. First off, great thing that New York Cities murder rate is falling. The rest of the countries murder rate has been falling as a whole for the past few decades. Secondly, if you want to throw around those statistics you better be dammed sure to include that rape in New York City has been on the rise. Does that imply that gun control is causing more rape? Because by your logic with murder it sure seems to imply that. I hope you’re proud that you think you did a “gotcha” on someone but in reality gun control whether stricter or looser has been shown to not have a huge impact on overall crime trends. There is evidence to suggest that the more people carrying firearms the more likely it is to have things like rape and assault go down. Lastly, it’s cute that you include your military service like it has some sort of padding to reinforce your argument. In reality, it just implies your argument isn’t strong enough to hold up under its own weight so you have to throw in that little appeal to authority in hopes it helps.

        • Agreed. As a veteran myself I get sick of seeing certain military members who throw around that status like it’s some kind of magical know it all card. Similar to “the race card” or other social justice warrior strategies. Being a member of the armed forces is admirable but as anyone who was actually there knows, it doesn’t give you a magical ability to speak with authority on every issue that suits you.

        • After serving in the military for over 25 years, all of it in combat arms, I can say that none of the training I received made me an authority on firearm laws. Most of what we learn is, being very capable with the few weapons you are issued and tactics on how to best employ the men you lead.

          In fact, 90% of what I know about firearms and laws, I have learned since retiring from the military.

      • Yeah…. you’ve been in the military. You’re the same clown on here a few days ago who tried to lay that Mens Rea crap on us regarding the mishandling of information protected by federal law. You postulated that mishandling classified information was only a crime if there was intent. You were a liar and fool then and you are a liar and a fool now.

      • And nobody is impressed by your claim of having been in the military. So was the traitor wack job Bradley (I’m not gonna call him Chelsea) Manning. I wouldn’t be surprised if you served together and were best buddies.

      • New York city has been experiencing a decline in crime because of the change in law enforcement practices and key prosecution changes. As it turns out, when you catch, lock up, and don’t release violent criminals violent crimes decrease. This is well documented by professional researchers and journalists.

        Gun control victories rely on hijacking the results of other factors, just like gun control arguments rely on inappropriately mixing lawful firearm owners with the results of illegal gun possession.

        • “New York city has been experiencing a decline in crime because of the change in law enforcement practices and key prosecution changes. “

          I recall that this was mostly the result of former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani’s policy of going after the lesser crimes. Catch and prosecute the window breakers before they move on to more violent crimes. There was an immediate and lasting positive result from his policies.

      • Every single comparison of same region similar demographic jurisdiction shows those with more gun control and less guns have MORE crime.’

        you don’t compare heavily gentrified, stop and frisk* NYC with Compton, and you do not compare Alabama with Hawaii. You compare Virginia and Maryland, which share the same major metro, have extremely close age, income, race, education and income levels and distributions. it is Virginia with 25 times the civilian carry rate, twice as many guns per capita, and way less gun laws that has lower violent crime and murder.

        *As far as NYC is concerned, it is the hihgest most pervasive surveillance jurisdictions in the US by far. ACLU and seven different civil liberty gorps have 38 different judicial actions against NYC right now.
        THOUSANDS of multiple count prior felons, the people responsible for 80% of murder, are still in prison from being caught by ‘stop and frisk.”

        NYC has one of the most heavy handed and abusive police departments in the US. With a police official last week telling offers to “shoot on sight” a well know musical artist.

        so please don’t hold up NYC to anyone — it is closest to a fascist police state of any US jurisdiction

        current suits civil actions against NYC, it criminal justice system and polcie department
        La Raza
        Human rights campaig

      • Nevermind NYC low murder rate. City, not state.
        And the fact that there are no restrictions on handguns in Chicago (they account for almost all gun violence) and shall issue carry

        Actually NYC proves gun control does not work.

        NYC murder rates were much lower when legally getting a gun was easier in the 1950’s and 1960’s and when NYC legal gun ownership was more common.

        John Jay (which is rated as in the top thee criminal justice universities in the US) found that NYC murder rate declined as a result of sharply higher incarceration rates and stop and frisk.

        When autopsies show 80% of NYC murder victims are HIGH on crack it tells you the rise and fall of of NYC murder had nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with huge rates of arrest and incarceration for crack.

        So please stop the bullshit, NYC is an example of how gun control actually makes things worse for law abiding.

        Today NYC has an increasing ate of murder of persons who are not criminals

    • Why do you think they care at all about facts or reason? There is no level of the gun control organization that has any incentive to pay attention to facts.

      Ground level feelies and demanding moms: generally ignorant emotionally compromised on the subject, facts threaten their worldview and their feeeeeeeelz and are ignored at best

      Mid level flunkies like Hogg: paid or incentivized to push a narrative. Factual accuracy and critical thinking are a direct threat to their income or benefits.

      Rich would-be tyrants actually pushing this stuff: they know. They don’t care. They want to be the only ones with arms. So they throw money at people to try and make that happen.

      At what level in there do you see a chance for anyone to be convinced with facts, logic, or reason?

        • I mean, he was the same guy loudly asserting that bump stocks made an AR into a real actual machine gun and crusading against them, so I kind of expect him to be a little light on facts and heavy on authoritarian judgments…

      • The only quibble I have with your comment here is on the moms, a comment btw, which can be extended to a lot of men.

        In my vain life I have noted a few things about these folks and they relate to something I said the other day about they way our brain works in terms of pattern recognition and filling things in for us. Something which Ragnar correctly pointed out is affected by entertainment.

        I’ve talked to quite a number of these folks and I’ve found that in my small sample of a few dozen that every single on of them has a few things in common: the main one being that they don’t actually know why they hold the opinion that they have.

        Badgering these folks like a child with Why? Why? Why? questions led me to more questions, mainly revolving around how the heck someone can hold an opinion on something they’ve never actually considered.

        The answer is, IMHO, threefold: 1) Many people will exaggerate their knowledge or offer an uneducated opinion in an attempt to impress people. 2) That opinion is formed based on pattern recognition and their brain filling in the missing parts of the pattern to lead them to a conclusion and 3) as a species we tend to do poorly with novelty especially when said novelty is theoretical to the individual.

        What we often have here are people to whom guns are unknown and therefore slightly frightening because of our aversion to novelty. Their data set o. the topic comes from the news where “if it bleeds it leads” and entertainment. Their brain uses this data to create a pattern for them that indicates guns are dangerous and often misused for malicious purposes. They use that incomplete pattern as the basis for all decisions involving firearms and to make risk judgements about them.

        When queried on the topic they respond in a way based on that malformed pattern, a mild anxiety to novelty and a desire to impress us. From an evolutionary biology point of view this makes sense both individually and for the species since they have a chance to pass on avoidance of a danger to others (see my previous comments about the cat at the watering hole).

        Now the interesting thing about this is that the root of it is emotional, and we can’t reason someone out of a position they’ve emoted, but we CAN emote them out of it (See my previous comments on advertising) in a way that redesigns their pattern and removes novelty from the equation.

        In my experience people like Hogg and Bloomberg cannot be reasoned or emoted from their position because, as you correctly point out, they have a vested interest in it. However, the vast majority of their “followers” can be moved to either a pro-gun stance or moved away from an anti-gun stance. How exactly varies but properly armed with information we can act like a company selling cars or widgets: send strong signals tailored to the largest “slices of the pie” in a way that maximizes our gains for the effort involved.

        • Hoggie boy is in it for the easy way to get money from the power hungry people ( socialists ) like Bloomberg . He thinks he will be one of the chosen to live high on the money taken from the ” fly overs ” when his ilk take over. He needs to educate himself on what happened to the revolutionaries that helped the tyrants take over. This classifies him as one of the ” useful idiots” to be discarded later.

        • “He thinks he will be one of the chosen to live high on the money taken from the ” fly overs ” when his ilk take over. “

          Unless someone has specifically told him this I doubt it’s crossed his mind. I think your first sentence nails it and that’s about as far as he’s probably thought it through, at least on his own. He’s in it for the attention and the power that gives him. At his age I don’t think he really grasps the complexity of what’s going on and so he’s like a rat pushing a button to get a reward.

          He was a wash-out before the shooting. Now he’s going to Harvard. That and maybe losing his virginity are the things on his mind and not much else.

          Hogg himself though is somewhat interesting. Fuck man, he’s a textbook example of primate evolutionary biology in action. A, small weak individual trying to enlist the help of others like him to take on an adversary perceived as larger, more capable and dangerous and thereby vying for a top spot in the troop.

  3. With no gunns only the criminals will have them and it seems that only the criminals have the balls to give a middle finger to the Constitution strippers. So with reverse logic disarming law abiding citizens is a good thing.

    • It occurs to me that as the number of CWPs rises and the number of Con-Carry states grows, the pursuit of violent crimes in the right-to-carry states will grow increasingly dangerous. Gradually, there will be out-migration of violent criminals from R-T-C states into Won’t-Issue states. The statistics will begin to shift to a degree that is hard to dismiss.

      At current levels of concealed-carry we haven’t broached the tipping-point – – YET. As the practice rises from 7% to 10% to 14% to 17%, the risk equation will register with criminals and migration will happen.

      • Never thought about that I have not. Makes a lot of sense, however I’m thinking the shall issue CC carry states will pick up the banner on Gunn control eventually. The future lies with the children, and if most of the schools demonize firearmzz, and refuse to teach America’s full history, College Professor Sneaky Petes, all with falsified facts and propaganda America as we now know it has maybe another 40 years.I MO

        • “The future lies with the children, and if most of the schools demonize firearmzz, …”

          Ahhh, but here’s the thing –

          What is the most natural thing for an adolescent to do? (Besides *that*, you sick marsupial bastard!)

          That is to rebel. To go 180 degrees in the opposite direction. If the parents hate guns, ‘junior’ will want to know what the big deal is on them.

          Telling a kid *not* to do something is the quickest way to get them to do it.

          Add to that how many of them play first-person shooter video games and watch Hollywood action movies where the hero saves the day and gets the girl (preferably sans-clothing at the end) , and we have a what’s needed for winning the culture war on guns.

          Guns *are* cool, fun, and very useful for self-defense and recreation. They can’t possibly win against that. Hence, the totally un-hinged reaction Leftists have to guns.

          We still have a lot of work ahead of us.

          But we will *win* this war!

      • “Gradually, there will be out-migration of violent criminals from R-T-C states into Won’t-Issue states.”

        I seriously doubt this. It’s just not the way people function.

        There however might be a situation where, over a long, long period of time you end up with most of the crime centered in “won’t issue” states simply because most of the serious criminals in “R-T-C” states are dead or locked up.

        • It’s probably not even useful to talk about crime rates at the state level in this context. Most of the crime in this country is concentrated in a small number of counties. So even a high-crime state might be so only because of a very small pocket within that state. This may promote out-migration from that pocket, but I doubt it would have much impact on an entire state. Since carry laws are controlled on the state level, I think the connection is probably pretty tenuous.

  4. To be fair MA gun laws are only one part of why MA sucks hot wet shit. The state has been actively recruiting felons to move there decades.

  5. In response to the 22 magnum being a hoax. You are a moron. The 22 Magnum cartridge has great validity when it comes to small games and varmint control. It may not be the best choice in self defense rounds, one must look several factors. Recoil is an issue for large defense rounds, cost of ammo, and the list goes on. So in summary; Is it the best caliber of ammunition. No, it is what is best for you.

    • you make many excellent points.
      the op, 22rfm, makes many conspiracy comments.
      cgray was poking him a bit.

  6. I have some sympathy for Hogg. Poor kid was badly damaged by his experience. He is emotionally flat busted and in need of repair. I wish this country had the sort of mental health funding, laws and infrastructure that would pick up on Hogg’s obvious injury and seek to help him recover his senses. Terrible to see a young person so dysfunctional, so damaged by the horror of what happened.

    But if he thinks he’s gonna’ take my Second Amendment rights away to ease his weary and broken mind, he can go fuck himself.

    • That unfortunate child was damaged before it happened. That’s why he broke so badly under the stress of real life, with real consequences. Would that all that developmental hoo-ha applied on him beforehand had prepared him for … anything at all, really.

      He’s staying broken because he’s being kept by people who find him useful in that condition.

      Any tactics of his handlers similar to grooming by sexual predators is … well, inevitable. That’s how to use broken people. He’s getting mind-f***ed, but the rest is the same.

      Now, I don’t want to get off on a rant here, but, yet, he’s complicit.

      In every analysis of adult, complicit evil the manipulated “victims” chooze to play along. Or even invited it in. Peck’s *People Of The Lie* is chilling, independent of it’s religious overtones. Every one in thrall to (and yes, enthralled by) an exploiting, greater evil, invited it in, and continued to.

      Hogg, was perhaps spotted and brought in as a lost and shocked child while the aftermath still echoed. Over time, as the shock subsides, he owns his choice to remain.

      After the capture, temptation.

      It’s the inflating head of the pack of his own Bieber-crew of fake “friends”, the frission of importance as the select crowd chants back at his spit-flecked rantings, arms held aloft. “All will be well, when we get rid of *those people.* Heil! (Or something.)”

      Somebody else supplied the posse, the crowds, the access, the crowds, even the words. He’s expendable, so they feed him the disqualifying nonsense, the visuals nobody would touch. When he’s too dirtied up to be useful any longer, they’ll drop him, pocketing the converts. We never said that. That was crazy-pants, there.

      Incomplete people can get possessed, by vall it what you will: ideas, roles, daemons, other, more broken people, or even plain, intentional evil.

      What’s his damage?

      Resiliant people can look at horrible events clearly, figure out stuff that will help, do that, and live with what can’t be eliminated. Hogg is too broken to do any of that.

      Hogg there just desperately wants anything powerful or uncontrolled to go away. The world is an imperfect place, and be just wants it to go away.

      Gun laws to get rid of *all* the guns — impossible — thus get rid of *all* the violence — indane on the face of it — thus, *all* the risk and uncertainty for Hogg.

      Now that he knows what’s out there, he just wants to return to his false security. Worse than “something like this could happen again”, is ” there’s no magic bullet.” Worst of all, stalking the back of Hogg’s mind is the guilty possibility: maybe if he’d grown up a bit, sooner, the horrible thing need not have happened.

      Every day after he chooses to be used, he builds that guilt within himself. It’s what the handlers count on, keeping tbeir stables too entangled to escape.

      He’s at real risk of suicide. After the handlers drop bim, he’ll have the same problem as before, amplified by isolation, sudden lack of resources, and hears of accumulating guilt.

      If he chooses to go away from a world thay remains too much for him, they’ll say he never got past the day of trauma.

      What he never got past was a lifetime’s grooming to make him weak and dependent, and keep him ever more so.

      They’ll use him one last time, and they’ll be able to because of the same damage he had that let them exploit him in the first place.

        • Thanks for looking past the typos. I’m having a day.

          In my college days, I had a housemate for a whlle who was a recovered Krishna — one time disaffected, isolated, and overwhelmed Brown math major, at the time doing deprogramming in turn. His girlfriend — a former Moonie he’d helped deprogram, so yeah, that’s entangled — got past defining herself as “ex-Moonie”, broke up with him, and moved on with a life not defined in reference to the cults of the time. He saw the example, and himself broke the rest of the way free.

          I kinda of inherited the manuscript of this ex-Krishna’s memoir / analysis. Deeply researched. Thoroughly organized insights, with the urgency of diret experience. Quality comperable to The Noonday Daemon (recommended, BTW.) I don’t think I have the ms any more, but the recognitions remain in place from the reading: “Oh, that’s indoctrination; that’s targeting; that’s a vulnerability, that’s grooming.” “Noiw, that’s using one who’s already hooked and addicted.”

          He went back to Brown at 35-ish, to finish the degree.

          Cults use the same techniques as at least child molesters, “brain washing”, intelligence asset handling, and terrorist organization inductions. Also political movements.

          They look for people broken because they are overwhelmed, and offer clarity, purpose, and a kind of twisted relief & psychological safety. It may hurt, but it’s a hurt the targets know. It may be a crap-ass payoff, and inconsistent, but it’s a payofff the targets know. It is exactly the same abused children who can’t tell the difference between good attetion and bad attention. Or people stuck in domestic violence.

          Who they target and how they find them is the same, the orchestrated intake is the same, the granular tactics are the same. The thing is, a damaged psyche taken in remains incomplete with the abuser providing a kind of crutch for the limb that never grows strong … but at a terrible price.

          It probably doesn”t help that I finished reading Hoffer’s *The True Believer* the other week. He makes exactly this argument, though about groups and cohorts, without appeal to granular techniques and broken internal psychology of the seduced.

          Peck makes a point that it’s an act of profound courage to throw away the definition and validation of an “exploiter”, whether a molester, a political schyster, or an abusive spouse. Some people become so crippled they can’t ever do that; some stop noticing their possession. What do you do with the once-puppy that chose an abusive master; now feral and violent itself? Is there any of that pup’s once potential left? The consequences are so out of proportion tpo that one small choice, but if there’s no way back, what do you do?

          What do you do when you recognize that the nevermore puppy with no way back is you? Not just what you’ve done in the meanwhile, but that there’s no repairing yourself, or making reparations for you, any more?

  7. Hogg, the darling of the ant-gun media, whose father is FBI connected and whose mother is a CNN executive, couldn’t possibly be the reason for his notoriety, right?

  8. Guns have never been the problem. The problem is really special interest groups . The main stream media and leftist nut jobs are really the problem. Real gun onwers a responsible people. I never have a problem anyone that would want me personally teach them how to safely use a firearm. You have a friend in North Dakota 22 WinMag.

  9. “Rather than acting like a pawn for the billionaire gun-control lobby, perhaps he and The Sun should focus their efforts on known way to save lives.”

    This is a terrible slander that may impact it’s future earnings for the rest of it’s life. There is a world of difference between acting like a pawn and being a money grubbing whore.

  10. A little history. Hogg was from Los Angeles. His dad was an FBI agent. His mom, a teacher for Broward County public schools. He chose Stoneman Douglas school because of its television production classes. He was a teenlink reporter for the Sun Sentinel. He’s not a useful idiot. He’s full-on anti-gun adult activist. With his dad being FBI and David’s own security team, he know full well the difference between good guys with guns and crazy guys with guns.

  11. I concur, M-Assachusetts is an ANTI-2nd Amendment $!#T-Hole…It starts at YOUR local police department where YOUR constitutional rights are blocked…No lawful U.S. resident in the state of Massachusetts can exercise THEIR constitutional 2nd Amendment right, if available as a privilege…No resident can purchase any Firearms or ammo with a local police department approved FID/LTC card. Which includes long term hurdles. Such as, mandatory safety courses, Q&A Interviews with a local PD licensing police officer- without an attorney present, fingerprinting, multiple local/state PD permissions, UBC, constitutional waivers, “RED FLAG Law”, long waits to see if YOUR RIGHTS are approved, May ISSUE/May NOT issue, etc…If approved, most likely an FID card (depending on YOUR township/city) for a low capacity rifle or shotgun, non-military like…Sent by S-mail, with YOUR state PIN # to purchase….(Bwhahahaha). People usual run away from M-Assachusetts and flee to NH, or ME. ….

  12. “…Hogg a Pawn for Billionaire Gun Control Lobby”

    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    After the break, Water is still wet and the sky is still blue.

  13. I’m an American of Asian decent (one Korean grandparent, two Hapanse American grandparents. I was born here and consider myself very lucky to be an American.

    BUT all though junior high school, high school and even in my undergrad I had (usually white) teachers virtually insist I be the one to write papers on the WWII internment and that I express my indignation and the harm to me from that program. I was not harmed by that program, my Japanese grandparents were never interned at an internment camp. Sure they were subject to bigotry during WWII, but I am sure Europeans in Japan were too

    So I think there is something else going on with David Hogg, and it goes to deep fissures developing in American culture and those fissures being driven by the US education system, specifically SJW teachers. I’m just 31 years old, and this has only been ramping up for 20 years in our schools. so maybe I have seen some of this more than people here who are older.

    In short if you are not a victim of America, you are a victimizer. I realized by the time I was in college that so much of today’s educations system is putting students in groups and explaining (indoctrinating) to those students that by virtue of being in a group, you can claim to be a victim.

    Imagine of you will then High school age David Hogg. He is somewhere between upper middle class and lower upper class. He is white. He is a male. Presumably he is straight. He is therefore the victimizer. he owesme just because I am Asian. If I am a woman he owes me, he is my victimizer. Same if I am African decent, Hispanic, gay — he owes me. I get to get ahead of him on line for college slots, scholarships, jobs etc as well.

    What does David Hogg need after 1 3 or 14 years in the education system? Math skills? No. English skills? No. Knowledge of science, history, rational discourse or civics? No. He desperately needs some way, some how, some claim to victim status. The parkland shooting is his entry into this new, perverse, American dream of the most important “accomplishment” of being a a victim of America.

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