Here’s an email exchange between reader Joseph D. and Colorado Rep. Paul Rosenthal, a Denver Democrat, who’s less than sympathetic to what the Centennial State legislature’s new civilian disarmament measures will do to Magpul’s cost structure. And who knew veterans’ pensions and VA salaries were so generous?
On Feb 17, 2013, at 12:50 PM, Joseph D <[email protected]> wrote:
I am disgusted at your political games driving Colorado jobs out of state. Unless you have less intelligence then I credit you for, you know this bill will not stand the test of time. But the loss of Colorado jobs will be permanent . . .
Unlike those bussed in to support the bill I am not a lobbyist. I am a Colorado voter, I have never voted republican in my life, but I will 2014. Colorado has millions of servicemen and they have families, and I don’t think your record on treating veterans will be forgotten.
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On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Paul Rosenthal <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Joseph,
I am bewildered since I have no idea how this relates to targeting veterans. Quite the opposite, there are so many pro-veteran bills this session.
Regards,
Rep. Rosenthal (D-Denver)
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On Feb 17, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Joseph D <[email protected]> wrote:
If you are unaware magpul is a veteran run company I am frankly amazed at how poorly informed you are on the issues. Again I say shame on you
Sent from my iPad
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On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Paul Rosenthal <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Joseph,
Thanks for your email. I fail to see how Magpul relates to veterans. My Air Force retiree brother makes out like a bandit, with a pension plus his salary from the VA. He doesn’t own a gun, and he seems pretty happy.
Regards, Paul
Sent from my iPad
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On Feb 17, 2013, at 1:06 PM, Joseph D <[email protected]> wrote:
As you don’t get it I will explain. Magpul is run by Richard Fitzpatrick, a veteran who chose to come to Colorado and started a company that employs hundreds. And HB1224 is bullying him, and his company out of state.
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On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Paul Rosenthal <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Joseph,
Magpul can stay if it wants to.
Thanks, Rep. Rosenthal
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On Feb 17, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Joseph D <[email protected]> wrote:
Not under the conditions laid out. Individually serial numbering a mass produced product will make them uncompetitive. and no one has addressed the transportation across state of their product. Not to mention the prospect of the next idiotic idea, were I them I would not want to remain in Colorado.
Now you may think the “oops” amendment technicality lets you off the hook, but your comments on “veterans making out like bandits” shows your true feelings.
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On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Paul Rosenthal <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Joseph,
My brother does well regardless of the bills we are passing. My true feelings about veterans is that we are passing a whole bundle of laws helping them. Anything we passed about guns is irrelevant to them.
I disagree with you about Magpul. They can still sell their product just fine.
Regards,
Rep. Rosenthal
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On Feb 17, 2013 1:32 PM, Joseph D <[email protected]> wrote:
wow, I remain amazed. But if you let comments like “veterans making out like bandits” in a public email and don’t see the impact on future campaigns maybe I credit you too much. Clearly you are not as adept at politics as I thought you might be. Friendly advice, close your mouth before you put your foot deeper into it.
Regards
I have to give him credit for responding (Edit: Frequently, repeatedly, over the course of two hours, on a Sunday afternoon) to a constituent. Even if you disagree with him, you have to give him that. I have yet to get anything but a form letter response from any of the people I’ve contacted.
This. At least he writes you back, even as you belittle and insult him. When I write my representatives sometimes I don’t even get a form letter in return.
I’ve been sending out e-mails to a bunch of the CA reps and Senators. All I’ve seen in return are form letters, with one exception. Fienstine replied in something that didn’t read as such. However her’s was so full of blatant falsehoods that it was painful to read.
She believes that the supreme court has granted permision to ban weapons… WTF!?
You got a response?
I wrote Fienscam, and though I was polite and all, I didn’t even get a thoughtless form letter.
I guess as a veteran and LEO I don’t qualify as one worthy of a response.
Then again, maybe the Nigerian scam letter I got WAS the response…
CS
+1
Same here. Though of course, the internetz has a way of making me question everything. Is it REALLY Rep. Rosenthal replying, or just a paid intern?
From my interactions, I’m pretty sure it’s the real thing.
Since at least one of them is signed “Paul” and says “Sent from my iPad,” I’m going with the interaction being legit.
Wow. Not even a modicum of diplomacy from the legislator. Rather, he exudes arrogance.
I fail to see diplomacy anywhere in the conversation from either side.
Well, one is the employee and the other the employer. Don’t know about you, but I have to be polite to my employer even when he/it’s not so nice to me.
Wow. His “Air Force retiree brother” must know some secrets this Air Force retiree hasn’t uncovered yet. But I’ll bet his “Air Force retiree brother” hasn’t been getting the runaround from the VA for two years about his “pension… from the VA.” And does the mention of a “salary from the VA” mean he also works at the VA? If so no wonder the double-dipper “makes out like a bandit.” I wish I had a brother who was a State Representative who I could use to get what I need from the VA – including a job!
“Makes out like a bandit” got my attention. I am sure my retired vet friends would LOVE to know how his brother is pulling it off. Maybe kickback “special” state contracts?
Magpul is more than welcome to move their manufacturing operations to San Antonio, Texas, where our veteran-owned businesses are appreciated as well as the jobs they provide for our citizens.
If I were a company I would choose Texas myself. I wouldn’t chance it in too many other states.
I endorse moving to San Antonio, Austin much too liberal due to aging hippies and mush brain college students, not all but most.
Austin has a lot of northern liberal transplants too, which doesn’t help. I know a few who complain about Texas laws an policies after they moved to the state because they couldn’t find a job in their home state. They see no connection between bad economic policies that destroyed their home states and the fact that they were able to find a job in Texas because we don’t have those policies.
Cancer never knows it is the problem…
Ugh. Same thing happens in NH too.
Bingo!
weird.
Rep. Rosenthal get’s credit for replying, but an F for content.
He’s my rep too. He does respond and will engage, but he just doesn’t get it. He’s firmly committed to the anti agenda. Since he won his district 63% to 36% he feels pretty secure in his ignorance.
…And so he should which illiterates the point that the govening bodies we have are in fact a reflection of who we have become as nation.This is no accident and the left-leaners did not “steal” their way in. The general population of this country hasn’t got a broken moral compass, they have misplaced it – maybe permanently!
illiterates. ha.
Thomas, I don’t see any insults, but perhaps a tiny measure of belittlement. That said, this exchange should give anyone pause who is under the delusion that most people in charge of making laws are above average intelligence. This rep is not even above the 50th-percentile.
“I disagree with you about Magpul. They can still sell their product just fine.”
OH! Well then that settles it! The Laws of Economics have been repealed! Making a product more difficult to produce is no longer a competitive disadvantage!
Magpul should move ASAP, because it’s only going to get worse. If they can’t pass a ban now, they’ll try again later, especially if another tragic shooting occurs. These idiot politicians are only waiting for the next excuse so they can “do something.” Magpul should take a look at business-friendly states that are not succumbing to all this anti-gun hysteria, find the best one to do business in, and move now.
thats what i was thinking NS.
another example of politicians being completely economically illiterate.
Honestly it is impossible to change someone’s agenda who does not even believe in it. Political posturing is what this is all about. These representatives were at least smart enough to get elected, what that threshold is I do not know. They will regurgitate whatever sounds catchy and will make the masses say “yeah, that sounds good.” That is exactly what is happening here.
You have to fight political rhetoric with political rhetoric.
Example, one current political Anti-2A “catch phrase” is something like if we can save just one child then these gun ban bills are worth it. Lets turn this around so that it applies to the above email string. No matter how many pro-veteran bills are passed just one that hurts them is a disgrace to our country and our veterans. Just one.
If Mr. Rosenthal believes that because magpul can still legally manufacture their product in CO then it is their fault that veterans will lose their jobs when they move to a different state, that can be argued simply (sorry run-on). Last time I checked it was not in Magpul’s agenda to move to another state until this legislation was introduced. Just the fact that magpul would consider the huge costs in moving an entire manufacturing “machine” to another state should explain how financially burdensome abiding by this new “law” would be.
Or, morally burdensome.
First time poster.
Agreed, I give the Rep. credit for replying multiple times. His basic failure to miss the sender’s point and arrogant responses show how out of touch he is with the real world. I want these bill authors to visit Magpul and speak with the (soon to be) displaced workers. Let this great company explain what these “representatives” seem to miss entirely.
Rep. Rosenthal go to Magpul’s plant and see what you are ending, productive qualified workers making quality products. Listen to the sucking sound as this company moves to safer ground out of state.
Jim D, he didn’t miss the sender’s point. He ignored it with typical politician evasion. While in the Business School at UT Austin, we had a seminar on handling the press with some people who had counseled big name politicians. This was 30 years ago, before the Sunday morning talk shows became unwatchable due to their techniques. The advice was always to buy time to think with, “that’s a very good question,” followed by changing the subject/answering a different question. It’s very obvious now, but back then the technique was in development. People were still, if not straightforward, at least a little guilty about lying.
The mistake is in even attempting to address a government representative with other than derision. It is impossible to get an honest answer from anyone, now that Ron Paul has retired.
Why would they want to stay?
All I get from Bob Casey, Jr. are letters that are more like a cut and paste of the news from Conn. the day of the shootings. And they are all the same. Being obtuse to constituents seems to be the politics of the left if you are from the other side and under their thumb. To me “Bi partisan” means that reps at least acknowledge the concerns of the people as a whole.
I have received the same email from Bob Casey 3 times. On the other hand, if he were to respond personally, he would probably sound as idiotic as Mr Rosenthal above. Funny thing about Casey is his claim to support Sportsmen…he is a rubber stamp for the white house, keeping his head down hoping his pension vests soon.
How much does Colorado take in from out of state hunting licenses? They should know that a lot of hunters will choose not to come based on principles.
Add skiers and snowboarders too.
Yup I used to be a regular visitor to Wolf Creek. Pagosa Springs is small and probably relies a lot on the money from visitors during the season. I will no longer go to ANY Colorado ski area. When we get snow in New Mexico we have some of the best ski/snowboard areas around (Taos).
make sure you’re passing this along to the CO flawmakers.
In 1992, Colorado voters passed “Amendment 2“, 53% to 47%:
The usual suspects went ape-shit, and called for a boycott of Colorado becuase Coloradoans were obviously a bunch of bigots.
Joseph, kudos on making your stand. I was almost in tears, laughing at the responses you got.
I don’t see how this ban effects veterans any more or less than non-veterans. When we write to our representatives we can’t give them an easy out to change the subject. We need to ask them for concrete evidence that backs up their belief that limiting magazine capacity “saves lives”. In CO we need to ask why the state government thinks that a company that produces firearms accoutrements would want to continue providing tax revenue and employment opportunities in a a state that thinks the products they manufacture is part of the problem with no evidence to support that.
With that said, good on the OP for the threat to vote these folks out of office!
I think the “Veterans” angle was because the company is owned by a Veteran…and may well hire a larger percentage of veterans than another company. SO he was trying to tell the Rep that it was a “double slap”.
I’ve seen puddles with greater intellectual depth that this rep.
I’ll believe that Magpul will leave CO when it leaves CO. Until then, it’s just talk. And talk, as we all know, is cheap, which cannot be said of pmags.
Ralph, that depends greatly on where one is getting their Pmags
Yeah, well not all of us are lucky enough to have brothers in the State Legislature.
i’ve heard all this talk of texas, but don’t they have some bills out there regarding some anti-2A legislation? even if it’ll never get through…. maybe they should consider montana? I’m not from there but i really admire their “FOAD” to the Feds.
lol, “Idiotic. Big Mouth, Politician”; opening his mouth, before thinking this out!… Jobs; Soon to be Moving out of Colorado; Hunters, now thinking twice, about Hunting there!…
What about the personal property of servicemembers stationed at Ft Carson, CO? I would assume if they live off post they would have to comply with this law, meaning if they own 30 round magazines and store them at their residence they would be in violation.
Hopefully, the companies boycotting government entities in NY will jump on this, too.
I say if Magpul leaves CO. it can move to Nebraska, it’s not far and has one of the lowest unemployment in the nation. The Vet benefits and not to bad the VA’s hear are really good with taking care of the Veterans needs. They would easily find eager people for employment Vet’s and non-vet’s alike. They would be very trainable and would show up to work on time every day they are scheduled to work. Besides, it might be easier to get Magpul’s wonderful accessories then it is now…
As far as that rep. I have not ever heard back from any of the Dem’s I’ve written or even called and have been contacted by at least half of the republican rep.’s. This Rep. Rosenthal is so focused on getting his bill passed that he has tunnel vision. I am quite sure that he did not even consider that the state might have any firearms industry there. I am also quite sure that he firmly believes in big government and a Socialist state. That is how most of the dem’s I’ve researched are all about a Socialist states. Which we all know from history how that works out for the country and how the slaves, errr, citizens of said Socialist country fair. States like that through history have always had a thriving funeral/bar-rial industries. From the dem dictator that is in charge….. When I was a kid the Dem’s where the good guys for the people, now they are all about becoming a Socialist or even fascist states with a dictator that is not elected by the people since we, errrr, they don’t have a real vote. Thanks to the electoral college are the real mercenaries, eerrrr, people that are the real voters and normally come pretty cheep…..
I will no longer elk hunt in Colorado. Who’s with me?
Is it me or is [email protected] kinda fishy for a email? Dont they have .gov emails?
As the person sending out the email in question I should clarify. I had send out multiple carefully laid out correspondence raising salient points, and not once received reply. I also spent 13h in the judiciary committee that week and watch legislators deny those who wanted to speak on the bill the chance to. The were not answering phones, and their voice mail was too full to take new messages, and they pushed the bill through so fast regular mail would not arrive.
After the vote had gone though to relive tension, I sent out a rant email to vent and to illustrate how emotion can be used on either side. Based of my previous experience I expected no one to read my mail, and certainly did not expect a reply.
I do not think the rant approach is a good one for sensible debate, and I do not think the text in my original email was the best. But when the vote had gone through already I chose to vent and somehow hit enough of a nerve to get a reply. But when I read about veterans making out like bandits I was speechless.
Oh and I originally got the email from the Colorado legislator contacts directory – this has now been changed. However if you go to his campaign website, this email is still listed.
http://www.peopleforpaul.com/contact-us/
The 15 round mag limit just passed the house on its third and final reading, 34 to 31. The Democratic leadership “allowed” 3 Democrats to vote against it, which will make it more likely that they’ll keep their seats…but still letting the bill pass. Expect similar vote machinations on the other three bills being voted on today, with 3 or 4 Democrats voting against each one; just enough to let it pass.
Funny how that works out, isn’t it…?
The letter writer was not inviting a political discourse when we opened the conversation with insults and derision. In fact, though the legislator doesn’t seem to make much sense, he was far more civil in his response than the writer. The letter writer is no better than the belligerent anti’s in his style of argument. Though he may be on the right side of the debate, the writer should be cautious of his tone and tact.
I don’t think there can be a civil way to tell someone “you are a potential criminal who can’t be trusted, it’s a good thing responsible people like me are here to keep you under control.”
Maybe so, but opening a discussion with an insult is a poor way to go about arguing our points. We need to hold ourselves to a higher standard than them. If we fall into the insult ridden diatribes, we only serve to hurt our position and close off potential allies.
I have trained in and strongly believe in maneuver warfare. As it applies to this conversation; Colorado has declared itself an enemy of the people by defying the Constitution, hence, I will stay away from Colorado and Colorado produced products. If they wa to be different, they can do so by themselves and without any financial help from me and mine!
I’m not sure where I stand on the “insulting diatribe” comment. I fully understand the frustration of being under the thumb of a tyrannical governing body and feeling somewhat helpless. I am sure this writer did not vote for the dirt bags who are systematically disassembling the “rights of men” as it pertains to Colorado citizens. I’m not sure I would hold my tongue either!
Completely off topic, but can we disable the auto play Ashford University video advert in the right hand column please? Just under the follow us icons…
I’m all for you guys paying the bills, but the auto play ad with no off switch is annoying…
We’re in the process of doing just that. Thanks for identifying one of the offenders. Any time you see one, please drop us a line at the contact link above and let us know who the advertiser is. Much appreciated.
I think anyone engaging a supporter of the mag ban in Colorado needs to ask that person about the moral implications of allowing Magpul an exemption. If they claim that the reason for limiting mag capacity is to save lives, and that “high-capacity” magazines are too dangerous and deadly to be allowed in Colorado, why is it then okay to allow Magpul to export those dangerous products to other states? Shouldn’t they be happy to shut down this manufacturer, since they’re basically an assembly line of evil?
Money…
In Central Texas, Zip #76513, we have a new industrial area ready for move in, tax breaks for doing so and 1000+ people ready to work and with the low living cost here, hourly wages will probably be less than they are currently paying in CO.
There seems to be a common thread regarding the ability of our legislators to read, understand, and consider the unintended consequences of their actions, regardless o f the state they rule imperially, sorry i meant represent the will of the people.
We are electing failures of the public education process because they look, sound, and act like MORONS!
I never reach out like this, but since this guy likes to reply, I sent a note. Exchange below:
1)
Hi,
I saw your email exchange with Joseph D about your support for the new gun control bills in CO, and the impact on Magpul. I am not a CO resident, but I am an active Magpul customer. I have every confidence that Magpul will be pulling out of your state, likely moving to Texas. I must assume that politicians like yourself aren’t really willing to throw away hundreds of jobs, so I believe you are calling their bluff. Not to burst your bubble, but companies moving their factories does happen. My father owned a factory that employed two hundred workers. I watched as a hired crew disassembled the factory, loaded up numerous flatbeds, moved it a few towns over, and put it all back together again – in under 48 hours. So if you think Magpul can’t do it, you are sorely mistaken.
In addition, I really wonder how someone like you can come to the conclusion that your policies are the “right” decision. The only way such a thing is possible is because you are living in false reality. It’s funny to me how liberals continue to push policies to achieve their social goals, not realizing the long term consequences of those policies will hurt the very people they claim they are trying to help.
Consider the exceptional social spending currently ongoing, and the massive debt resulting. When the debt becomes too big, and there isn’t enough tax money to pay it off, what does a country do? Inflating the economy is the only option, and as you should know, inflation hurts the poor the most, followed by the middle class. The rich will largely not be affected, and many will actually profit off it.
Consider the anti-gun measures now being enacted around the country. Anyone not blinded by liberal idealism or their own fears (and as Freud says, sexual immaturity) can read statistics impartially, and in doing so, realize that less guns always means more crime. Whether you look at the US or abroad, the statistics correlate remarkably well. But somehow, even with the example of Chicago to guide you, foolish democrats like yourself keep going down a failed path out of idiocy. And let’s not even talk about the “last defense against tyranny”, I know that argument falls on deaf ears as the liberals in this country don’t believe such a thing is possible, even while they are bankrupted by elected leaders like yourself.
Finally, you took an oath. You took an oath you apparently did not intend to live up to. Technically speaking, you are a traitor, as you are actively using your elected political position to advance anti-Constitutional policies. Do not make the mistake of thinking there are not consequences for such actions, your voters are watching.
Sincerely,
A pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-liberty for all, Republican
2)
Hi Christopher,
Thanks for your thoughtful, detailed response. I am afraid I don’t agree with you though.
I hope you’ll stop by the Capitol some time. I’m in room 307!
Representative Paul Rosenthal
Work: 303-866-2910
Cell: 720-529-9787
3)
That’s your right. Thankfully, we’ll know who is right soon enough. Magpul will shortly announce their departure from the state, and you can verify the jobs lost via any means you’d like. As for the rest, it may take a little longer, but we’ll know the answers there in time as well.
Good luck on the next election, you’re going to need it!
-Chris
This turn of events is a warning to those that are fortunate not to be trapped in an anti gun state such as Colorado. The legislation written to ban magazines was designed to target Magpul. A multi-million dollar firm that was a job and revenue producer for the state. The Progressives have spent a lot of money to turn Colorado into a blue state and advance their agenda. They attack public figures and journalists that do not advocate for the “party line,” while presenting themselves as political moderates. This campaign model has been successful in Colorado, and is intended to be used in other red states. This ideology is a cancer. The Progressives either do not know or care about the economic damage they have done to Colorado. The only thing that matters is their morality.
This is insanity.
Why would Rep. Rosenthal pay any attention to his constituent’s concerns when Joseph D. professes his loyalty to the Democratic Party by declaring, “I have never voted [R]epublican?”
If you want to discuss the impact of moronic leftist legislative action you go to the Economic Development Agency. Every gov’t entity funds such an organization to bring business and jobs to their area. You stop the business you work for buying from Colorado, or Prince Georges County MD etc .and will get the attention of those who fund political campaigns (the board of directors of said Econ Dev agency). In this case http://www.advancecolorado.com/
“Magpul can stay if they want to”. Translation: FOAD!
Hi everyone, thanks for your the input and feedback. I can’t say I agree much with you, but it was an interesting read.
Regards, Rep. Rosenthal
Dear Rep. Rosenthal (wow, directly in the middle of me…a kind of sweet and sour sandwich, with the bread being conservative, and sweet): “You can stay if you want to”.
Well, as I said before, I give him props for responding. That’s more than I’ve gotten out of any of my legislators, even the ones that agree with me.
Comment removed. We’re publishing the entire letter as a separate post. Thanks.
Representative, you get no credit from me for just showing up. I would be curious to know the source of your disagreement. The ignorance you display about the mythology surrounding the effectiveness of banning magazines is dangerous in my book. You are indeed willing to lose a significant number of jobs in your state, and to make law abiding citizens less free. In my book that makes you at least very uninformed, and at most a propagandist, willing to stand on the graves of children to promote an agenda that will in the end accomplish none of the goals you claim to have in mind with this legislation. From what I am reading, your hope must be to replace the jobs lost at Magpul with Marijuana tourists…best wishes. My long held dream has been a Rocky Mountain hunt. I’ll enjoy Wyoming or Montana.