I heart ColionNoir. As a fellow African-American (from a slightly different cultural background with a noticeably lighter skin tone) I salute his intelligence, wit, passion, perseverance, honesty, integrity, lucidity, focus and automotive choices. And I agree: an open carry demonstrator shouldn’t be a “dickhead” or “jackass” to police. But I profoundly disagree with ColionNoir’s statement that they don’t have a right to be a dickhead . . .
The Second Amendment protects citizens against government infringement on their right to keep and bear arms The First Amendment protects citizens against government intrusion on their right to free speech. If an open carrier is carrying openly in a legal fashion, if he stays within the letter of the law and tells “intervening” police to f-off, he has the right to do so.
Gun rights would be better served if a [metaphorical] army of clean-cut folks carried handguns and long guns in plain view around and about town. But what are the odds of your average gun owner open carrying in states where the practice is akin to wearing a T-shirt pronouncing “aspiring spree killer”? The People of the Gun most likely to risk losing their guns rights and/or imprisonment (not to mention being beaten or shot by unsympathetic police) are far more likely to be zealots. True believers. And yes, egomaniacs.
In the same sense that it takes a brave black man to speak publicly for the NRA, it takes a courageous man to push the open carry boundary. In fact, I bet some of our Founding Fathers were dickheads. Just sayin’ . . .
Like Adam Kokesh?
People have an inalienable right to be dickheads. Just look at New Yorkers.
Ohhh! Youse tryin ta hoit ours feelins o whot?
Most of the founding fathers were relatively rich…
Where does that put Michael Bloomberg?
I think the word you’re looking for is “successful.”
The King of England was rich. Bloomberg=king?
(See what I did there?)
The Founding Fathers were courageous patriots and men of honor and intelligence who risked all for their nation.
Blumburg – not so much.
I’m more with Mr. Noir on this one.
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life” ~ Robert A. Heinlein
Anyone doing an Open Carry demonstration should understand this principle.
From what I saw on the video of the three OC’ers in Texas, they were way to polite and they gave up way to many of their rights.
At least In New Mexico, unless I am actually breaking a law; which they weren’t, I don’t need to show the cops my ID unless they are going to arrest me for breaking a law; I would tell them that, “politely”. and would refuse to give them my ID.
I also wouldn’t take the mag out of the weapon; all that does is give more power to the cops and they will have that much more contempt for these guys.
In the end, the only “jackasses” in that video were the cops for giving them a ticket when they were obviously not threating anyone, their only “crime” was scaring a nervous nelly for having a weapon in the open.
Yes, they have the right to be dicks. The problem is that there are plenty of LEOs who are more than willing to interpret that “legal open carry” as a Disorderly Conduct charge. Free speech only gets you so far before your words become interpreted as being spoken “in a manner calculated to cause alarm” and then you’re f-ed.
Colion Noir is a dick and an asshole. There is no room in this country for those who find it acceptable to deny law abiding persons the right to openly bear arms, a fundamental civil right.
You must be new to the internet…because Colion Noir supporting the right to bear arms has been slightly popular on the internet for the past year or so. Or his point went right over your head…
I’d suggest everyone Google “Leonard Embody.”
no, currently we are having a serious discussion with industry leaders regarding what to do about recent executive branch issues relating to the NFA world. its actually pretty cool.
No-one is talking about denying you the right to wave your AR in the public to try to prove your point by provoking people. It’s strictly about properly labeling people acting in this manner as dickheads, which is entirely appropriate.
I do not recall seeing any AR open carry video on youtube where the carrier “waves” his AR around. I have seen many where the AR is carried on a sling.
Leonard, I’m pretty sure that if we took a vote of 100 random gun people and 100 random non-gun people about who more aptly fit that description, you’d beat Colion hands down in both polls.
I think you’re both on the right side, but if winning hearts and minds is the goal, he has a much better methodology.
I think we should make a clear distinction here between being a jerk and being respectfully assertive of our viewpoints and our rights.
Given the choice between portraying firearms owners as yahoos and polite, respectful citizens (see FPSRussia, Hickock45 respectively), I think the choice is clear cut. However, I think the “easy-going southern gentleman” style of 2nd amendment diplomacy only goes so far.
At a certain point, we need to understand that the forces we’re working against will have no part in logic, no part of reason. Their arguments are solely based on shoddily written emotional appeals that use words like “military style”, “Assault weapon”, and “for the children”. If your foe clings to the argument “for the children!” no matter what fact or scenario you present to them, then no amount of coddling will win that argument. Only a showing of political force/farce (Oh the puns!) will shut them up.
Having said that, we need to appeal to the middle of the ground people – we all know who I’m talking about. If you mention you shot a .22 this weekend at work, they perk up and ask how it was, and you can see it in their eyes – They want to shoot a gun! These are the people we need to lean on and bring to the “good guy” side, and the way to do it is to not be a jerk.
Do we have the right to be a dick? Hellsz yeah, America Fuck yeah. Does it help our cause? Probably not. The same way the anti-gun crowd screams “common sense”, we can also use the same refrain. Use a little common sense – be a model gun owner. (Note to self – use real guns in place of model guns)
FPSRussia and Hickock45 are like night and day. I think it has been proven on many post here that Hickock45 is more respected than FPSRussia.
Watch the video again. He repeatedly says he supports open carry, and he doesn’t suggest that people give up their rights if stopped. He just doesn’t want people to be dicks about it.
Open carry has to be taken in context. Open carry a handgun, and you’re doing something that millions of people do, minus a piece of cloth over the gun. Open carry a rifle at a rally, and even if people disagree, they understand you’re there to make a political statement. However, there’s no obviously innocent context for OC’ing an AR or AK down a city street. If you’re going to OC a rifle, expect people to call the police, expect them to respond, and treat the responding officers with courtesy and respect, understanding that they’re just doing their jobs. Then politely resist if they attempt to violate your rights. These guys on YouTube are just dicks with chips on their shoulders.
If you are the real Leonard Embody, then I commend you. Is there a law against being a dickhead? No. Then you have the legal means to be a dickhead all you want. If you can be a dickhead without a gun then you should be able to be a dickhead with a gun. After all, All the cops I know are dickheads. As long as you are not being threatening to the police officer (like raising your firearm towards them) then that police officer should follow the fvcking law and go about his business and leave you alone. It is not his place to make society polite – it is his place to enforce the law and serve the public as appointed.
That said, regardless of carrying a firearm or not, or talking to police or not, being a dickhead is not a proper public attitude. What would your mother say? Imagine if your mother or grandmother could see you now… if you are embarrassed then an attitude change should be in order. If you want people to treat you politely, then you should probably be polite.
Being a cop does not make them a hero and entitle them to public a$$ kissing.
Yea I actually wasn’t finished…
Being a cop does not make them a hero and entitle them to public a$$ kissing. If cops want people to be polite to them, then cops should be polite to people. As an example – all the cops in this video should be anonymously executed in a dark alley:
This one is very polite as well:
The reason the open carry guys are dickheads and carry a camera is because the police are fvcking Gestapo Nazi’s. They might Rodney King them on the spot and drag them off to jail and sue the guy videoing them for brutality because the audio recording wasn’t consensual by both parties. Camera’s and dickheads are about capturing corruption. Period.
” After all, All the cops I know are dickheads. ”
Tells me all I need to know about you and your biases.
Incidentally, one can be suspected of a crime with probable cause without being guilty. In such a case being a ‘dickhead’ may leave police with no way to exculpate you from such crime, leading to your arrest.
Nothing you say is going to convince the cops you are innocent. If they are accusing you of a crime, call your lawyer and let him be the dickhead. Never talk to cops. Never talk to cops. All cops are liars, PERIOD. They are trained to lie to citizens. Never talk to cops.
Are you the dickhead that became an Youtube sensation being a certified A-hole?
What did you, and these ‘just trying to prove a point officer” types think was going
to happen when you carry guns similar to the ones used in recent mass shootings?
Were you expecting a pat on the back by the local LEO’s, is that what you thought?
No, your entire theater of the pseudo-righteous was just to provoke a response
from the police that you could capture on camera. You walked through Nashville
with a conspicuous firearm, while brandishing an enormous chip on your shoulder.
Do you also drive around with a bumper sticker that say, All cops can kiss my ass?
No? Why not, that video stunt you pulled in Nashville was saying the same thing.
Do you think the police would have stopped you if you were open-carrying a small
sidearm? Probably not, which is why you chose not to go walking around with one.
No, you and those open-carry tools in TX decided to walk around with a billboard,
in urban areas, that screams “Come check me out, I’m open carrying the same
military-styled rifle used to murder unarmed people!” to everyone with eyes, with
the specific intention of inciting a police incident that you can record and find your
15 minutes of fame. So, you got it, now STFU! What you are doing is the opposite
of help, in fact it hurts our cause. How can I say such a thing? Tell me, how many
LEO’s had to be diverted from their daily duty circuit to check-out you? How many
dollars in unnecessary man hours have been, and will continue to be spent, before
your case is finally resolved? These open-carry rifle stunts are examples of selfish
behavior, not public civic-mindedness. Of course, you’ll get back to us with the
number of police diverted, and total cost to taxpayers when this is finally resolved?
Ya, sure you will. Colion Noir has got it exactly right. Since you were looking or itching, to provoke a confrontation with LEO’s, my sympathies for you are zip, zero,..nada.
If you go around impersonating a nail, don’t be surprised if a hammer shows up.
Nice plug for the police state and anti rights anti liberty rant there Out Fang.
Let me make sure I understand what you’re saying; If a person exercises their rights below the radar fine but a conspicuous display of exercising a right is reasonable grounds for the police to confront, harass, and even (falsely) arrest them.
When such a thing happens it’s entirely the fault of the citizen exercising their rights because they ‘ought to know’ that such flagrant liberty will attract the police who will then violate their rights because that’s just how it works and they shouldn’t have been drawing attention to themselves.
It’s ok for the police to violate peoples rights, break the law, and attempt to intimidate the citizenry into not exercising their rights.
Does that about sum up what you’re saying? Because if it does you sound like either a neo-fascist in love with the idea of a police state, or else a defeatist who believe that actually exercising a ‘right’ is grounds to loss that right. Wait, those are the same thing. . . say it aint so out fang?
@ Leo below . . . Please don’t agree with me, I can’t take the heat and frankly wasn’t exactly defending you either. In fact I don’t know you and haven’t seen you post before this thread but so far I’m not getting the feeling that we’re going to agree on much. My response to Out Fang was a plea to him to listen to what he’s saying dispassionately (meaning without thinking of you while he does it).
Most can’t take the heat.
Do tell defenders of stupid behavior, how many police carry long arms in public
as a daily carry? How many walk patrol with a rifle? Cue Final Jeopardy music.
None, zip, zero, nada, that’s how many police carry rifles as part of their EDC.
If they did, I’m sure people like you would strenuously object, as many here
have in previous posts, to the militarization of the police. How you all cried over
the house to house search in Watertown by paramilitary-dressed police armed
with “assault rifles” who were searching for the two Boston Marathon bombers.
So….if the police aren’t walking through downtown Nashville with military-styled
rifles, on what grounds are you making the argument that YOU should?
Please don’t cite that it’s your constitutional right to walk around with anything
you want, anywhere you want, anytime you want, and however you want, and
anyone who has a problem with that is a neo-fascist, and can GFT or FOAD.
For a different perspective, let’s take a look from the police side of this issue.
What LEO is going to want to answer an I.A. investigation explaining why they
didn’t stop and question a guy wearing a bullet-proof vest and carrying a rifle
case, who 15 minutes later, opened his rifle case and began another bloody
public massacre? Can you imagine the recriminations and wailing from the
public because the police failed to respond to the conspicuously armored-up
Mr. Embody? As I have said before, nothing says “You’re going to have to stop
me with a difficult head shot.” like a civilian shooter wearing a bullet-proof vest.
Has it escaped yours and Mr. Embody’s memory center that every civilian we
find wearing a bullet-proof vest is/was involved in a horrific mass shooting?
From a law enforcement perspective, what local or state LEO is going to allow
Mr. Embody to walk around, conspicuously dressed as he was, conspicuously
carrying what he was, without a cursory stop and chat? Mr. Embody wasn’t
simply minding his own business, he was deliberately trying to provoke a fight.
In my mind, that shows malice, as in, malice aforethought. Mr. Embody wasn’t
packing a camera because he thought nothing would happen, he was packing
a camera because he was hoping something would. Something that would be
dramatic enough to post on YouTube. Mr. Embody was going to walk around
until some unsuspecting Leo saw him, and confronted him. Leonard set up a
moving ambush, in much the same way that Michael Moore makes use of it.
Does it bother you in the slightest that this stunt; this deliberate punking of a
LEO cost manpower resources that could be better spent on real crime?
How many officers were called to deal with Mr. Clam when it all was over?
This account has some more details about Leonard Embody. Enlightening.
This wasn’t the first, or only stunt, that Leonard Embody has to his credit.
Somebody in the volunteer state thought so little of his stunts with guns,
they revoked his handgun carry permit in 2010. When I asked him why he
didn’t try this with a sidearm, he had no reply. Well now we know why?
Mr. Embody’s recent past of being an irresponsible gun owner OTD too
many times, has cost him his handgun carry privileges, so all he has left
to open carry, is a rifle. News flash: Carrying a rifle through the center of
any large town or city ended well over 100 years ago. That’s a good thing.
It means the rule of law is more powerful than lawlessness. People who
want to carry rifles in densely populated cities is not something we need
to embrace just to prove an absolutist view of the 2nd A. As I mentioned
in my first post, if Leonard had been packing a sidearm, instead of what
he was packing, do you think this stunt even would have been noticed?
But alas, Leonard didn’t feel it was necessary to reveal to us that his
handgun carry privileges had been revoked by Tennessee, and why.
Put’s a little different spin on this story, don’t it? So sorry, but I won’t be
cheering for Mr. Embody as hero of the 2nd A, or gun rights in general.
He sure as Hell isn’t my gun rights spokesman. Is he yours?
You do realize I have often wore a bullet proof vest downtown nashville.
My tn Hcp should have no bearing on the carry of a locked, cased, unloaded rifle. The tn Coa has said as much.
I have Hcp from several other states.
Belle Meade tn cops suspended my permit, but read the following and tell me they had cause…
This is a serious question, RF. Not trying to call you out, i’m just curious. What’s your African connection?
The tribe he belongs to originated in Israel…
That makes you geographically challenged. Israel is in Asia not Africa. I think that Robert’s family is from North Africa. He can correct me if I am wrong.
Tonight! On “Tribalism…”
RF’s mother is South African.
Kokesh is a great American. He practices what he preaches. colion Noir is illogical and often contradicts himself. Noir is both a dick and an asshole.
Agree RE: Kokesh. Disagree RE: Noir.
Says the asshole who walked around downtown Nashville sporting a AR with a suppressor, blocks from several banks and a school and then had the nerve to tell the police to leave him alone. Fuck you Leonard, Fuck you from a fellow Nashvillian.
Blocks away from the capital, blocks away from the courthouses, blocks away from the police station, blocks away from the mayors office, blocks away from the DA’s office, blocks away from hundreds of thousands of people, blocks away from daycare, blocks away from the hockey and football stadiums…
I guess the second amendment is suspended because I was blocks away from everything. :rolleyes:
Having the right to do so doesn’t mean it’s wrong to point out that it’s stupid and confrontational. It also doesn’t make me anti-2nd Amendment to postulate that you’re doing it so you can be confronted by police and act like you’re being persecuted. You’re not helping, you’re making things worse.
See, it is that stupid attitude of yours Leonard that will get you a choke hold and some pepper spray one day. For once can you stand up and be a man without a gun in your hand? What’s your next gun antic going to be? Why don’t you perch yourself on I-440 where it passes over I-65 with a Remington 700 and keep an eye out for drug runners headed northbound. When cops ask what you are doing you can tell them you are doing their job of keeping Nashville safe. Why don’t you take your suppressed AR and go stand in front of the al-Mahdi Islamic Center on Nolensville Road and wave a sign that says ‘No Terrorists Allowed’? I could give you more suggestions on how you can exercise your 2nd Amendment rights to satisfy your polemic disposition.
How does that quote go? “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes…”
Noir is a 2A supporter and clearly stated in his video that 2A rights should not be trampled. He is neither a dickhead nor an asshole.
Everyone is different, I can see from your perspective that it appears as if Noir is calling you out and his video addresses people in your boat. That said, I have great respect for you having the brass to publicly carry a suppressed AR and verbally slap those dickhead cops.
Like I said before – if one can be a dickhead without a gun, then one should be able to be a dickhead with a gun. I believe it is your right to openly carry and as long as you are not bothering anyone then the cops should go write some speeding tickets or eat another donut in the break-room while watching the movie “running scared” with Billy Crystal and Gregory Hinds.
You have the right to be a dickhead.
And while I agree with the Heinlein quote, being a dickhead doesn’t give someone the right or permission to cap yo ass (words are not deadly.)
Having said all of the above, doesn’t mean that you SHOULD be a dickhead.
While there may be an inalienable right to have cranial genitalia, invoking that right may be the height of selfishness. I.e., when it drags down the entire movement that you purport to support.
The war over gun rights is not a legal one, nor a military one like that ultimately resorted to by our anatomically grotesque founding fathers [at least some, according to you]. It is one of PR. And remember, PR – not logic, not information, not reality, and certainly not honest journalism – is what gave us the administration we have today.
Clean cut polite people openly wearing properly holstered pistols do us a great service. Being a dick while doing it hurts us.
Clean cut (mostly polite) people openly carrying UNLOADED handguns wandering around the board walk in SoCal or having group coffee sessions at Starbucks on a Saturday morning resulted in the California Legislature banning the open carrying of handguns in all urban areas, and later, the carrying of unloaded rifles as well. [As a side note, Ronnie Raygun outlawed the carrying of LOADED firearms in the state in 1969–but despite the passage of time that should have been sufficient to educate the general public about this prohibition, the soccer moms had nervous breakdowns and called the cops every time they saw a MANWUTH GUN!!!OMGOMG!!!THINK F THE CHILDREN!!!] And It has only gotten worse ever since. Unfortunate.
The only upside to these developments–which upside has yet to be realized–is that when you combine a ban of openly carrying any firearms in all urban areas with the de facto ban on CCWs in most of the large urban areas (Sacramento being an exception), you end up with a de facto ban on exercise of the Second Amendment outside the home. And that fact squarely frames the issue of the constitutionality of “may issue” CCW laws. Which is likely why we have been waiting for the past 8 1/2 months for the Ninth to rule on the issue–with the east coast circuits firmly I the discretionary issue is constitutional camp, the Ninth doesn’t want to be the circuit that rocks the boat. and if it goes along, well then its decision will be a victory of public policy over individual rights.
Unless I’m mistaken your state was already well on it’s way toward becoming a liberal utopia when all that went down. (Even our beloved Ronald Reagan started out his political career as a democrat). The point being that perhaps other lefty leaning states can learn from Cali’s mistakes but, I think it only helps right leaning pro gun states. We will make them drink their own Kool-Aid and it will be served by clean-cut, respectful men and women with heaters on our hips!!!!
Usual and Customary. By all means walk around open carrying out in the interior west i do it all the time when I am visiting my son.. Do it in places like small town and rural Virginia. If you live in an open carry state don’t worry about printing and carry a full sized pistol. But don’t walk into Starbucks in a area where people are going to be unnerved by your display just because you can. If you live in an area that not gun friendly open carry when you have a real reason to do it and be polite to everybody who might object and explain your rights. And yes, don’t be dick to cops lest they be dick to you and you how that one ends.
BE MINDFUL of what and whom you represent, whether or not you want to believe you represent them. YOU DO.
then again, it could be earlier- and we are all African-Americans:
And, btw, back to the point- I agree with my bro’s Rob and Col – don’t be a dick with a gun. Just becuz you have the right, doesn’t make it right- just sayin’.
Someone show me a successful movement in this country that succeeded without protest, protesters and d***heads. Really, anything at all. When you’re done searching I’ll await the admission that no group of people ever advanced their cause or asserted their rights effectively in America without outright violence in some sectors, let alone being d***heads at least some of the time some of the time.
Women’s Suffrage, Prohibition, Repeal of Prohibition, Civil rights for African americans, Gay rights. . . the list is endless, protest, civil disobedience, and challenging authority (ie being d***heads) is what advances a movement. There were those in all these movements who feared the more radical approaches of some were detrimental to the cause. There are cowards within any movement who fear losing what they already have and would sustain the status quo.
Just as not every woman who was for prohibition or even all those in the temperance league actually blockaded saloons with their own bodies and not every homosexual ever stood blocking an intersection shouting slogans, not everyone in the RKBA movement agrees with the tactics of all the others, but to say these loud voices are hurting us somehow is to denigrate what they do while demonstrating a lack of understanding about how social change takes place in the United States.
Temperance-everyone-should-be-teetotalers. Talk about DICKHEADS.
No kidding! But they did get their way, at least until almost literally everyone else decided it was a terrible (and unenforceable) bad idea. The antis are the Teetotalers in this scenario. Had there way for awhile, it sucked and now they’re losing everything they gained.
A good way to put the argument. People WILL have guns.
Reminds me of a joke I heard from a buddy:
Why did the open carrying chicken cross the road?
“IT’S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! AM I BEING DETAINED?”
Pepsi out my nose. Dang it!
It appears every poster here above me doesn’t live in a constitutional carry state like me.
If any of you did, you would understand that here, seeing someone open carrying, whether it be a long gun or a sidearm, is as natural as someone walking down the street with a Starbuck’s in their hand.
Or seeing someone “texting” someone of their phone..
Get the point?
They don’t get the point PK, fudd it seems, comes in many flavors and everyone is only out to protect their own interests and not their rights and those of others.
Ohio is open carry but you can still be hassled quite a bit depending on where you are and who the officer is. We need more demonstrators to push the limits until the cops and the sheeple get it, it’s the law, we’re allowed, now go about your business. Rights which aren’t exercised are lost.
Ardent, you need to move! 🙂
Totally agree. Everyone should pick a day and do it simultaneously.
All he said was that the second amendment doesn’t give you the right to be a jackass, not that you don’t have the right to be a jackass. I agree. Some open carry activism is well executed and some is stupid. Even so, the jackass examples of open carry activists have the freedom protest the way they want to, and just because it hurts our cause and leads to further restrictions on our rights instead of expanding them doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to do it. We have to suffer the social and political effects of their stupid tactics, but so be it. Freedom is messy.
I believe that the 1st amendment gives you the right to be a jackass. The 4th amendment gives you the right to be a jackass and be left in peace.
Indeed, but the 4th only means the state has to let you be a jackass in peace.
No, it doesn’t. Ever heard of disorderly conduct? Basically a legal term for being a jackass. People get locked up for it all the time. Political speech excluded.
For the most part an unconstitutionally vague law that spineless judges enforce.
“Disorderly conduct,” aka Contempt of Cop. You’re right. Many arrests, not so many convictions, but who wants to spend a night in jail and have his mug shot on the Internet? Cops have the power to mess up your life, unless you’re already pretty down and out, in which case it doesn’t matter.
The progressive gun grabbers attack on emotions and bloody shirts. The war is a cultural war. I see no benefit of fighting that war by acting like a dick head. The impression is all gun owners are dick heads which just give them more power.
We like to quote the Founding Founders? Great, realize they needed to fight a PR war both here and abroad. Their tact? Show that the motherland was the heavy and get sympathy for the cause.
I agree, do not stop exercising the right, but I cannot understand the point of being an asshole when the cops show up — what do you win? What value do you add? Our cause gains nothing by being dickheads when the cops show up, which is the point of the video.
The founding fathers risked all, fortunes, families and name to openly rebel against the crown. Death could have come on the battlefield or at the end of a rope as a traitor had they lost.
To compare some trolling buttheads on the street looking to gin up a confrontation with the local 5-0 so they could have a little internet fame to the founding fathers is a bit of a streatch.
Open carriers face death being killed by cops every time they carry. Many YouTube videos show open carriers held at gunpoint. Some open carriers have been shot and killed by cops. I started wearing a bullet proof vest to preserve my life if the cops ever decide I should be killed.
FLAME DELETED You are hurting the movement….not helping…..go away!
Leonard. Everyone has their own ideas on how to support our cause, and you too are entitled to yours. The founding fathers spat in the face of their oppressors and tyrants (figuratively speaking), and you are doing the same. Maybe the few of your type do not help the cause, and those trying to appeal to the emotions and PR of the sheeple feel it is a better tactic. Regardless, you have my respect for your bravery and taking a stand for what you believe in – in the best fit way you felt possible. In response to JWM and Mighty Mo – if all gun owners did what Leonard does for just one week or maybe even a day – the fight would be over. You know it, I know it, Leonard knows it. Our means are different and douche or no – we are all fighting for the same thing.
As for Leonard living on the edge – I personally have seen a dichotomy forming between states of people like us and states of people like them. More people have guns now more than ever and more people carry concealed now more than ever… so all is not lost… yet.
While I will agree with YOUR assessment Anonymous…..YOU sound like a right minded, intelligent, well rounded individual. The difference to me is that Leonard does not. As opposed to those three boys in Texas who were NOT trying to get arrested or cited (and should not have been) Leonard sounds like he IS trying to push buttons to the point of crossing the line. Would we even be having this conversation if he went so far as to wear a ski mask with his body armor and rifle….or dare I say a hoodie? I do think it is ok for us to stop and ask if someone has crossed a line (with regard to positive effects on our movement) regardless or right or wrong – legally speaking. Besides……he kinda pissed me off when he started by saying that “Colion is a dick and an asshole”!!!! Colion is one of us and I’m proud of him for helping to break the minority mold. I say bring on the minorities! Blacks, Asians, Latinos………and hot lesbians! ESPECIALLY HOT LESBIANS! Does anyone know some who like guns? +1 for RF if they are HOT ISRAELI LESBIANS WHO LIKE GUNS! LOL!
From Leonard’s web site:
“Kwikrnu Arms: Sorry, I can’t accept transfers due to a possible pending indictment.”
Let me guess, Leonard, you are James Yeager’s kissing cousin?
Here is what our intrepid hero did:
On 7-29-13 I decided to pass out 2A leaflets in downtown Nashville. I openly carried a molded kydex rifle case on my back with a ballistic vest. I purchased the ballistic vest because Tennessee cops have repeatedly pointed guns at me. It would be foolish not to wear a ballistic vest. I was detained once for about 20 minutes and let go. I then proceeded to do an interview with news channel 5. I then continued to pass out leaflets and was walking back to my vehicle when I was stopped by a crazy cop. He detained me, while his henchmen removed my sealed locked rifle case and pried it open without permission. They saw a suppressor attached to an AR15 rifle inside the case. there were no cartridges for the rifle nor was there any magazine. I was arrested for the silencer even though form 3 paperwork was inside the case. I am an FFL NFA dealer and pay the SOT. The cops said that since the case appeared to maybe have a rifle in it they were justified in opening it. I was arrested and bonded out at about 5am on 7-30-13
The case was made from kydex. The kydex covered every part of the firearm and no part of the firearm was visible. A cable lock was placed on the kydex case so that the firearm could not be used. The sling was strapped in two places over the kydex case, preventing the case from being opened. As a final touch I placed tape around the case at six points to ensure cops did not attempt to open it. The keys for the lock were not on my person.
I have broke no law and believe the DA has not dropped the charges for fear of a federal lawsuit. Police have targeted me, they are pursuing charges they know to be false. Due to the Younger abstention theory I will file a civil rights lawsuit against MNPD when the state charges are resolved.
Preliminary Hearing is Aug 20, 2013 at 9:00 am in courtroom 4B. I will defend myself and have asked for a preliminary hearing. I expect the DA to dismiss the charge before I am able to thoroughly question the cops involved in the illegal arrest and detention.
The following are the reasons why I will win:
# 1 Tennessee statute criminalizes the bearing of arms with “the intent to go armed.” A locked case with a firearm inside is not “intent to go armed.”
#2 The possession of a firearm is not per se illegal.
#3 A terry stop must at its inception be legal, meaning there must be the reasonable suspicion of a crime at the time of the stop.
#4 There was no exigent circumstance to open the case, and there no no RAS that a silencer was inside until they opened the case and saw the silencer.
#5 The documents to possess a silencer are not required to be carried, they must be retained, although the documents were in the case with the unloaded rifle.
Anounymous. The fight would be over in one day if we all open carried like Leonard? Remember, enough of America voted for barry to make him president twice. On the appointed open carry day 30-50 million people start walking around downtown America with their AR’s and AKs and the gains we’ve made since the 68 gca, which I fought against, will be washed away in the panic stricken tears of 200 million soccer moms.
You want to galvinise the opposition? Make anytown USA look like a cartel town in Mexico or Mogadishu.
As a pro-gun guy, speaking to pro-gun people everywhere, try not to be scary and threatening. Walking around downtown with an EBR on your back may be your right, but it’s not helping the cause. The facts are on our side.
It’s an easy problem to avoid, just take a cue from other civil rights movements and carry a sign when you are trying raise public consciousness. Sure you don’t have to but if your intent is to further the cause it would make you more effective. Something like ” Americans Exercising Their 2A Rights” would get the message across. I know I know you don’t have to but if your goal is truly to help the movement and not just draw negative attention it should at least be considered.
I guess that Rosa Parks was a dickhead.
Not really, hers was a planned act in full and deliberative coordination with the larger civil rights movement at the time, executed at a specific time in a specific way, contingency plans in place, all in order to maximize the tactical value of the protest without causing negative repercussions to the movement. Kind of smart, a good way to win.
Claudette Colvin was actually the first woman arrested for violating bus segregation law. She didn’t get the publicity because civil rights leaders thought her being a teenage unwed mother would hurt the movement.
I watch Newsroom too!
She wasn’t a dickhead, she actually violated the law. Only law abiding open carriers would be labeled dickheads and assholes in Noir’s world.
Leonard, you just need to stop. You are trying too hard to be cool but at the end of the day you just look stupid. You Brentwood kids are all the same, spoiled. But what do I know, I grew up in Franklin.
+1000 Ralph. If no one is willing to risk it all to either prove their rights are their rights or else challenge laws that may be unconstitutional then we’ll never know what exactly our rights are and are unlikely to expand them.
You could easily say that the Little Rock Nine were simply inviting trouble by exercising their rights too. After all, it made lots of ‘soccer moms’ angry and frightened that their kids would be going to school with African Americans. May the Nine should have backed down and not caused such an uproar, what dickheads!
Rocking up to ones local Starbucks with rifles and telling anybody who will listen that you are “enjoying your rights” is much the same as starting out a first time shooter with S&W 500 in my opinion.
I would take the 500 Smith…..my first time shooting was an ultralite .38. Since we’re on the topics of dickheads, I still have a scar from the trigger guard…
Yep, start small i.e .22LR and go from there.
Is anybody else here just glad to see an NRA man openly supporting OC? As best I could tell the NRA was completely MIA from Missouri HB436 which supports OC, armed teachers, and protects the 2A from Fed A-holes. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong….but, where are those “d***heads” when we need them?
I’m with Colion on this one, I think his remarks are spot-on. He articulated what I think each time I watch one of these “open carry” videos.
I think people are going about normalizing firearms in an overzealous manner. What I mean by that is, our rights are being stripped away in baby steps. We need to take them back in baby steps. Perhaps an AR-15 slung over your neck in the ready position with a 30 round mag is too aggressive, in a LE interaction it’s easy to see their concern. It’d be much more productive to carry an AR slung over your shoulder on your back, with no mag and a chamber flag hanging out the side. LE would easily be able to identify the political statement and discern that there is no immediate threat without even having to ask a question.
One small (but very important) point.
At 2:10 Mr. Noir says “Like I said before the Second Amendment gives us the right to bear arms”
No, it really doesn’t. We HAVE the right to bear arms and the Second Amendment protects that right against government intrusion.
The Bill of Rights is a Guarantee, not a permission slip.
Putting manners requirements on people executing their rights only puts us in the gun haters crowd. Just like we don’t like the things people say under the first amendment doesn’t mean I am planning on taking their first amendments away. Gun control is about control. You want only nice people to own guns instead of law abiding people and you have given the first piece on the chessboard to the anti-gun crowd. I would prefer that all gun owners would be the nicest polite people on the planet but then hell would freeze over.
Momentarily forgoing the personal implications of the vulgarity and despicable manners displayed by Mr. Noir in this video —
on the NRA news website, Mr. Colion Noir is identified as an ‘NRA News commentator’.
If I were among the leadership at the NRA — which I’m not — I’d personally call for a meeting of the directors, make each and all aware of this video, and put forth the following recommendations:
1.) That Mr. Noir be immediately dismissed in his present capacity with the NRA.
2.) That a formal statement be drawn up and issued for press release citing the reasons for his dismissal.
That said and always hesitant to offer advice, given the circumstances at hand however, a reasonable person might be inclined to strongly suggest that — if for no other reasons than those of his own best self interest and out of only common courtesy and respect for himself and others, he remove his copy of this video from the internet and offer a formal apology…asap.
I disagree, I think Colion Noir presents the NRA view of the issue. They should thank him for getting the message out that open carriers are assholes and dickheads.
Stop Leonard. You have proven you are not the voice of reason.
For what exactly? Saying a couple of (low grade) bad words?
I just watched this video again. Then I watched Leonard Embody’s video of him and the Nashville police from back in July. I watched Colion’s video one more time and then Leonard’s again too. Now Colion did not come right out and say it but I think there is a real strong possibility that has seen Leonard’s video too and directed this video at him. Sucks to be you Leo.
Some people, Colion Noir, and some gun rights groups, NRA, do not like open carry. They are selective of the rights they think we should be allowed to exercise. Anti-gun Colion Noir is both an asshole and a dickhead. The NRA is full of the same.
Fer chrissakes, get a new line. You’ve said that same line about CN in the exact same words at least three times. And for you to call him anti-gun is just ludicrous, and shows your level of insanity. Where the hell do you get that he doesn’t like open carry? Did you actually watch the video in the post above, or were you too busy having fever-dreams? He specifically says, “I think open carry should be legal in every state.”
You’re a delusional idiot about Colion Noir, and while your feelings about guns are in the right place, the way you go about it makes you just about the single greatest detriment to our cause that I can think of. Thankfully your destructive behavior makes virtually no splash outside the gun world.
Matt, come to Nashville so we can go bitch slap Leo. I know where he lives.
An amusing offer, A-Rod, but probably not worth the trip. It just astonishes me that he thinks he’s doing any good by drawing this much antagonism from the people who are theoretically on his side. He might be 100% right, but if his attitude even pushes away the people who agree with him, then he’s 100% right all by himself, and no progress is made.
You know Leonard, Actions speak louder than words. Based on that adage and between you and Colion and your respective videos on YouTube or the nightly news you have your head in your ass. By the way, what are you going to do next to buck the system, ughh, I mean flaunt your rights?
As an impertinent aside:
‘Nature has provided the male of the human species with two heads, but only enough blood in the system to use one at a time — thus, making it practically impossible to think with the one while using the other.’
Don’t forget to flex your first amendment rights as well. Walk around some high-crime urban ghetto while using the word n***** as loudly and conspicuously as possible. If anyone gives you a hard time tell them you have a right to free speech and they will leave you alone. And when you are done there, grab a few hundred of your buddies and jam your group into a local McDonald’s in violation of the local occupancy codes. After all, a right not used is a right lost.
Leonard does not have the balls to do your freedom of speech exercise and he does not have the friends to do your assembly exercise.
I have no need to speak racial slurs nor yell them. I rarely go to McDonalds, but would not want to go to an overcrowded one.
But you feel the need to walk around Downtown Nashville with an AR on your back and wear a ballistics vest. You went looking for trouble, found it, are lucky you did not get hurt and now we all laugh at you for being a dumbass. Seriously, what’s your next trick?
I was handing out 2A literature.
True but you refused to talk to the police when they had ground for reasonable suspicion. Your actions then slid right into probable cause. You got what you deserved and video taped it for the whole world to see. Though Colion did not mention you in the above video I bet he has seen your video and you are one of the dickheads and jackasses.
They had no reasonable suspicion that a crime was being committed. Everything else is inadmissible because the stop was illegal at its inception.
“Mere refusal to consent to a stop or search does not give rise to reasonable suspicion or probable cause. People do not have to voluntarily give up their privacy or freedom of movement, on pain of justifying forcible deprivation of those same liberties if they refuse.” us v fuentes1997
Tell the truth Leonard, What happened when you had your day in court (Aug 20th)?
Look it up on youtube
Leo, you have some explaining to do – http://ccc.nashville.gov/jis-web-affidavit/work/Affidavit-AJPRequestHandler-ApplicationServerThread-62057538149.pdf
Give us the YouTube link so we can all watch.
kwikrnu on youtube
Here’s a brief news story on that court appearance.
Attorney 101 – Rule Number 1 – DO NOT DEFEND YOURSELF!
Leo keeps on proving he is a jackass.
I guarantee that the charge will either be dismissed, I’ll be acquitted, or the grand jury will not indict. How is that for a non lawyer. LOL
Sigh…. With the possibility of being charged with a Felony and judicially loosing your RKBA maybe, just maybe you could have hired a lawyer to CYA. Even if acquitted you will always have to check that ‘Have you ever been charged in a Felony offense’ as a Yes. You are already called the Radnor Lake Rambo. What will they call you next? You are no Rosa Parks.
Rosa parks broke the law. I didn’t.
So what is your plan B if you are charged with and found guilty of a Felony offense?
It won’t happen.
Aggressive open carry hurts antagonizes those who would otherwise be sympathetic or at worst apathetic to the 2A. For that reason alone it hurts our cause.
I have open carried in WI for the last 18 months or so and the only incident I had with police was when some anti-gun mom called police on me for open carrying in a grocery store that allowed it. The police didn’t even confront me directly, they observed me for a few seconds and as they walked by me out the door one of the two officers said to me ” I couldn’t even ask if I wanted to” Exact words. I was assuming he was referring to my 686 holstered on my belt but I was a bit confused but a few minutes later a store employee told me someone. “a mom” had an issue with me open carrying and was told by police it’s completely legal as the store was not a not against it in policy.
But if he had asked me for ID even though it would prove nothing other than who I am, it wouldn’t tell him if I was a felon unless he ran my name, but I would of showed it rather than act like an asshole, even though it is my right to be an asshole if I so chose. But in WI one does not even need a permit to carry of any kind and after a few police incidents with open carry citizens being harassed by police state basically told all LE to leave open carry people alone or else.
But WI isn’t CA, or NY or whoever. WI is one of the few states that truly support gun rights. When I hop on over to MN as I work and play in both states, it’s a different story. Open carry folks need a state issued conceal permit so the police there think they have the right to ask for it, they don’t but the state of MN doesn’t support it’s citizens rights as much as WI does, I’m sure most states don’t unfortunately.
Sorry Mr Colon Noir, but did you know that the Open Carry guys had the PERFECT LEGAL RIGHT TO RESIST AN UNLAWFUL ARREST?
To everyone here stating that it’s their right to be dickheads let me say this: What Colin Noir is saying here is : Don’t be like the westboro baptist church! Yes they are within their first amendment rights showing up at soldiers funerals with god hates fags signs, does it win them any friends? Does anyone like them? The idea is that just because you can do something that doesn’t mean you should.
Your analogy to westboro might be more accurate if open carriers pointed their guns at people or positioned themselves outside a police station while shouting obscenities.
However, open carriers are simply walking on public streets and the cops come to them. The cops are the ones confronting the open carriers. The cops are the ones detaining the open carriers. The cops are the ones harassing the open carriers.
The cops are more like the westboro church, but in this case westboro church has arrest powers and can charge open carriers with contempt.
I disagree. My westboro analogy was meant to give an example of someone making use of their constitutional rights in a deliberately provoking way. The way I see it, walking down main street with a rifle (any rifle not just an ak or ar) slung over your shoulder is just begging to be confronted by law enforcement. It is not common practice, people use cases or bags to carry anything larger than a pistol. The police would take an interest not because of the gun but because you are carrying a dangerous (to others) object for what appears to be no good reason. Try walking down the street carrying an axe or a sword or a spear or a sledgehamer , even a baseball bat will that not get attention? I understand the clear political symbolism of the act I just don’t think it’s a good idea.
I personally agree with Colion in the 2nd amendment, I also do think every state should be open carry. Now, if you are open carrying your rifle in the low ready I (as a concealed carrier) would be very hesitant, I was in the Marine for 8.5 years, did a tour in Iraq, had many upon many of pre-deployment works ups, and being in the low carry meant you’re expecting to shit to go down. My to bit if you are going to open carry either 1) sling the rifle behind your back, or have it slung weak side where you’re hands are away from the weapon, and 2) be professional if cops show up and give you flack don’t return it, push record (if not already) and handle the situation as a professional and make the cops look like asses for not knowing the law. No reason to be a douche just because your in the “right.”
End of two cents.
While people do have the right to open carry long arms and be idiots about it, I disagree with one thing – never claim to be defending my rights when you are acting like an idiot. You are open carrying in the U.S. – not on patrol in the Helmand Province of Afghanistan, Ramadi, Iraq, or playing COD.