“Illinois, the last state to allow concealed carry, is expected to begin issuing permits in April under a law that goes into effect on the first of the year. Traffic stops already are among the most dangerous activities for officers, and throwing newly legalized handguns into the mix could have tragic consequences, officials said.” Before I amaze you with Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart’s asinine comments [via mychicagotribune.com] about the prospect of American citizens in The Land of Lincoln exercising their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms I want to say this: Illinois cops have to deal with concealed carry during traffic stops right now. You know: criminals with guns. How does legal carry by law-abiding residents have any effect on traffic stop cops whatsoever? OK, since you asked . . .
Here’s some deep thinking on the subject by police trainer Kevin McClain, executive director of the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board:
McClain said there could be more arrests for disorderly conduct or obstruction for citizens who don’t cooperate.
“Police officers are going to have to show a lot of restraint,” he said. “You might get people that are carrying the weapon legally that get obnoxious with a law enforcement officer.”
Back to Dart:
Dart said he expected more shootings to occur — including those that are ruled justified — once the new law takes effect and more people are carrying handguns.
“I don’t know anybody in this debate who’s going to sit there and say that with more guns out there it’s not going to lend itself to more shootings,” he said.
Bueller? Bueller?
Please don’t tie all Illinois departments in with Dart. He is the biggest joke of all LEs in Illinois. Well, so are most of all his clowns in brown.
can’t wait to see how they manipulate the stats in their favor and whine about it. I’m in Canada on business right now, and they joke about Chicago’s violence. I offered that it is a social issue and not a firearm issue, and they just sort of looked at me. Oddly, it’s a software company, and they have nothing nice to say about CGI (obamacare website ‘creators’) either.
As a FORMER resident of that God forsaken state, I can honestly say when we go back to visit family the second I cross the state line into IL the only thing I feel is utter disgust and it stays with me until I the second we hit the MO state line on the way home. IL has been so backwards for so long now the residents there think it is “normal”.
As another former Illinoisian turned Lone-Star-Stater, what I enjoy most is describing the process of buying firearms in Texas to folks who’ve lived in Illinois their whole life. They can’t believe you can just walk into a store and back out with a gun in a half hour, with no FOID card nonsense.
Then, to pour salt in the wound, I explain that we have no state income tax.
It took you half an hour? You must’ve been window shopping or something.
It probably takes a little time to revive them,the Illinosians,after each revelation of truth…..
I suspect there’s been a lot of lines the last few years…
Only took me 10 minutes to get my new DPMS Sportical at Walmart on Wednesday.
5 minutes to fill out the form and 5 minutes to wait on the Manager to show up and sign off.
Did not even have to bother NICS as I have a CWP.
I could not agree more… And from what I understand Illinois will not honor any other carry permit. Now how asinine is that?
But they do have a provision for nonresident permits to be issued. I don’t know what the process involves. I don’t go there often enough to bother.
Well, they are ahead of NY (state, forget about the city).
Annoying when one lives right by the border and routinely zips across to shop, etc.
There’s your problem, don’t drive into that state to shop. I actively avoid buying from anti gun states. The thought of my taxed money going to organizations bent on stripping away all my rights disgusts me.
If I have to read that Illinois is the “last state to allow concealed carry” one more time I’m going to shoot someone… (/sarcasm off)
But seriously… New Jersey anyone? Illinois may be the latest state to allow it, but there are other places that are now worse.
New Jersey is actually a “No Way We Issue” state.
On some local forums there are posts about police refusing to even provide applications for CCW permits. Basically, the person is told “You’re not gonna get it approved, so go away.”
Living in AZ I shake my head in disbelief at the situation in places like Illinois, New York and New Jersey. I am not being figurative here, I mean literal disbelief. It has taken me a long time really believe that it is that bad there. It doesn’t seem like we live in the same country.
Same thing in Maryland. Hell, just read the MSP’s licensing page. Unless you’re a doctor or have documented recent threats\assaults against you with notarized witness statements and police reports… forget about it.
You can download it from state police
I know, but I think the point was to highlight the attitude that police have about people applying for a permit and to get them on record denying even an attempt to exercise one’s rights.
It took two lawsuits to get the LAPD (another “no issue” department in a “may issue” state) to even post CCW info on their web site, or to have the applications forms available at the desk–even though state law requires it. They’ve got a real cute system going on down there. Technically, the issuing agency for CWs n Cali is the local county sheriff, but some police departments are also allowed to issue. In LA, if you go to the LASO and apply, you will be denied because they’ve imposed a requirement that you apply to your home city first. And of course that city will deny you, because they don’t issue CCWs in southern California. If you go back to the SO after your denial, the SO will use the city’s denial as a basis for denying your application to them.
It’s because Chicago runs the state. Otherwise things would be much better here.
We don’t even need a license to conceal in Alaska. My wife and I took a 16-hour conceal carry course and got licenses anyway. We just renewed them through the mail, and are now NICS exempt. I have to agree with the other poster. Attitudes are so vastly different it feels like ya’ll are living in a whole other country. Funny how liberals believe so very strongly in only the rights and freedoms they agree with.
Perhaps if they focused their efforts on cleaning up the sewer pipe of modern media instead of working to destroy traditional gender roles and the ideal of the family they could actually do something to curb the epidemic of African American violence. When you exclude murders committed by African Americans, you find a U.S. murder rate of about 2.6 murders per 100,000 people. which puts us between Estonia and Austria. These numbers fluctuate year to year, but the point is obvious.
70% of African American homes have no father. African American children have only degenerate pop culture icons as role models. Dads matter, and they matter a lot. Fix that. That’s what makes our murder with gun stats look as bad as they do.
C’mon…the law says “justifiable need”….and you only need to convince a second amendment hating judge that you have a “justifiable need”.
Evidently, from the people that I know that have tried to get a CCW permit, self defense is not a justifiable need.
Of course, we have an LEO exception. All LEOs and retired LEOs are allowed to carry. Clearly some of us are more equal than others.
-ted
According to the MSP, NJSP, and surely NYC, you don’t need to worry about defending yourself unless you’ve already been the victim of an assault. Hmm… wait, how can you be assaulted the first time if you’re not vulnerable until it happens first?
There must be no crime in NYC, Baltimore, and Newark!
I think the subtext in the Sheriff’s words are these: “Holy shit! Our officers are such complete assholes to citizens that some of those concealed carry types are just gonna open up on us!”
There may well be more shootings because of the increased handguns on the street, but as people practice and their aim improves, eventually the bad guys will start dying more frequently, so eventually the shootings will go down. Well, it sort of works like that everywhere else… What am I saying?!? Everyone knows that Chicago is one of the official entrances to Hell! Maybe things won’t get better there, but it won’t be because of the presence or absence of guns.
Things might not get better in Chicago because it is the gangrenous heart of 50 years of failed public policy.
I disagree. I think the subtext is an implied threat that they are going to bust anyone carrying a concealed weapon that they can–for being “uppity.”
That may well be the “unofficial” policy, like the school resource officer earlier – if the LEO knows you are carrying he will start with whatever he can to get your goat, possibly like Seattle where they will demand that you surrender your weapon to them until the “interview” is over. If you give them any sort of argument they will do their best to charge you with disorderly conduct or some similar offense, haul your butt to jail, and confiscate your weapon. Maybe even try to get your permit revoked based on the encounter.
Illinois is a totalitarian state, at least the Chicago/Cook County dominated portion, and they are not going to passively roll over for this damn legally armed civilian bullshit. You can bet that if they know you have a CCW they are going to do everything they can to make your life hell and try to convince you that it just isn’t worth the effort.
My wife has some experience with police harassment and her response has always been to be “aggressively polite”. The most they have been able to stick her with ever has been bogus 5 over speeding tickets that she had thrown out. Every last one. She worked for a law firm that represented a lot of low income suspects.
But that is in a conservative Midwest town that is relatively firearms friendly (no registration for anything once you own it) so I can imagine cops in this case being even worse.
Looks like he’s about to cry over all the deaths his officers will cause.
Sherriff Dart needs to come down to Arizona and take some lessons in how to be a police officer.
Maybe not from the Pima County SWAT team, but the Tucson Police seem to do alright, as well as the state troopers and many other departments.
Or, he should just fellate a cactus. The cactus doesn’t deserve to be treated that badly, but sometimes you have to take one for the team.
At first, I laughed at the stupidity of the statements in this article, and then I remembered I still live in Cook County. Now, I am just depressed.
No one takes Dart seriously. No one takes the Cook County Sheriff ‘s Police seriously. They exist to provide bagmen for the Outfit and to leak investigative info to street gangs. It is just another Patronage Army for the Illinois Combine.
Don’t forget the appalling job they do running the Cook County jails.
That’s right, and that’s where they’ll toss you for being armed in the wrong county. So glad to be in DuPage.
To me the most funny thing about Cook county is that Indiana is just an invisible line away. For most living there is just a bad habit.
Because CCW holders cause much mayhem all over the country Ill predictss blood in the streets. Just like 1986 in Florida when CCW was introduced.
Except Cook County Illinois isn’t Florida. These guys are ready to make sure blood runs in the streets, just to make their point. And especially to make sure this foolishness never migrates into Chicago proper.
Maybe the numb nuts can come down to some states that have done it for decades and get educated. We have a crew her in Tallahassee that would be willing to provide them with proper training for the correct fee. What this goobers fail to grasp is that it isn’t the ccw license folks they have to worry about.
But they’re still the ones who will get blamed.
A criminal who carries a gun TODAY, but gets into a shoot out after the law takes effect will be made out by the media to be a new CCW holder that “snapped”.
If you believe these guys really want to get educated on how to do this armed citizen thing right then you may also believe that the Obama regime is REALLY trying to run this country properly but are just incompetent, not trying to destroy the economy on purpose.
First requirement to become a cop: being an idiot.
….and being Obnoxious
He’s not even a cop…. he has never been a cop. he’s a lawyer that was the chief of staff for the previous sheriff that got elected. He’s a Chicago machine politician.
And a politically ambitious one at that. If he had to do an actual traffic stop he’d probably wet himself with anxiety.
No. There are plenty of decent cops who actually do contribute to a safer community. The problem is that when the bad ones catch a politician’s eye, they often rise to the top, quickly.
Why is it that the Cook County, Illinois, LEO’s are presumed by their leaders to be so inept? Why is it that thousands of Pennsylvania police take the LCF holders in stride, without trouble? I find them excellent. Did Cook County actually know they hired incompetents? That doesn’t make sense. If I were part of the rank-and-file under Dart, I would certainly feel insulted by his presumptions.
“Why is it that the Cook County, Illinois, LEO’s are presumed by their leaders to be so inept?”
I think it is more likely that for too many years they have been trained that they can operate from a position of total power and control over the citizenry and now they may have to actually be concerned at some push back when the citizens are not helpless and begin standing up for their rights. The fear may be that they will not be able to adjust their method of policing or worse that they will not be able to continue their ingrained methods. Hard to keep that Chicago machine running with thousands of little free citizen sand particles infiltrating the mechanism.
Legal Guns End Thuggery!!!
There will be more shootings….. of people who need shooting! Let’s cut the crap and be honest. Many, many, many thuggish, no-good, criminal, low life, scum bags are about to get hurled into eternity in the “Land of Lincoln.” Most of these degenerate pieces of human excriment will be African American. Don’t be offended that I said it. It’s true. These people have lived the gansta lifestyle for so long that there’s no warning them in advance. They will continue to ply their trade of crime and mayhem, but now will increasingly meet with a terrible surprise. I truly believe the liberal politicians are scared sh_ _less that this will reveal a truth that many in society are too politically correct to address. Mainly that thuggish, black, gang members are about to get their azz’s handed to them. The facts will be undeniable and certain segments of society want to continue the status quo even at the expense of decent people’s lives. I have no remorse and believe it is they who owe the people of Illonois the apology, not people who speak the truth. It’s going to get good… Just watch!
Legal Guns End Thuggery!
If you were expecting a round of huzzahs, I’m afraid you’re barking up the wrong tree. Nobody came here to talk about racial politics except you.
Lucas D……. Did it ever occur to you our nation was founded by the politics of racism? That our founding fathers were racist to the extent of owning blacks and utterly exterminating native Americans. Did it cross your mind that the man (Thomas Jefferson) whom you owe your 2nd Amendment rights to (or at least articulating them into our Bill of Rights) was a slave owner and even sired children with them (would be called rape today)? The general who defeated the tyranny of England was also and NONE of these founders ever intended for multiculturalism to ever arise? Wasn’t it Adams who defended a white man for killing a negro in court and won on the grounds of white superiority AND that the negro was simply property? Can you see any indications out of the thousands that multiculturalism isn’t working well for anyone?…….no….. Of course you can’t.
Multi-culturalism, my ass. You don’t know me, so don’t try to speak for me. I’ve seen enough pointless arguments over this to know that once you inject the race into a debate, any meaningful discussion after that is over. Now, if you guys are actually fools, my apologies; carry on in loudly complaining about black people in an open forum. But if you’re intelligent, thinking adults, do try to keep the discussion about the impact CC holders will have on crime and wisely forgo the adjectives.
Lucas, I read that comment carefully and I could find no trace of racism there. He was stating a known FACT that the majority of the gang-banger in Chicago and Cook county are either black or Hispanic. He was rejoicing that these thugs may soon get their come-uppance. The fact of thuggery was the point, the fact of race was incidental information.
During prohibition the gangs in Chicago were Italian, Irish and Jewish. Is it somehow not politically correct to point out this fact? Gangsters are gangsters, doesn’t matter what color they come in. Good riddance to all Chicago criminals who are too stupid to move to New York or New Jersey or D.C. where they can ply their trade in relative safety.
My understanding of the undeniable fact was not that black gangsters would be dealt with, but that armed citizens would end their reign of terror when the Cook County and Chicago police could not. It will prove to the antis that citizens with guns do fix the problem.
I know the history, it’s irrelevant to this point; if you inject racial politics into this, then the shit-shovelers are going to pounce on it. Hard. I’d rather they have to make things up to smear us with than for us to willingly give them inflammatory statements they can throw back in our faces.
You just said it yourself; color doesn’t matter, so play it smart and move forward by discussing the impact this will have on criminals and leave their melanin count out of it.
“Banning Guns End Racism!!!
There will be more shootings….. of people who need shooting! Let’s cut the crap and be honest. Many, many, many racist, no-good, criminal, redneck, scum bags are about to get hurled into eternity in the “Land of Lincoln.” Most of these degenerate pieces of human excriment will be White. Don’t be offended that I said it. It’s true. These people have lived the redneck lifestyle for so long that there’s no warning them in advance. They will continue to ply their trade of racism and mayhem, but now will increasingly meet with a terrible surprise. I truly believe the conservative politicians are scared sh_ _less that this will reveal a truth that many in society are too politically correct to address. Mainly that thuggish, white, klan members are about to get their azz’s handed to them. The facts will be undeniable and certain segments of society want to continue the status quo even at the expense of decent people’s lives. I have no remorse and believe it is they who owe the people of Illonois the apology, not people who speak the truth. It’s going to get good… Just watch!
Banning Guns End Racism!”
Deprogram your self…they’re using this same propaganda against you. Divide and conquer
You sure paid a lot of attention to a post you indicated wasn’t worth paying attention to! How long did it take you to transcribe all that?? Wow…. And I still thought Death’s was much closer to the truth. Use your head man! Sweet thoughts and pleasant dreams die quickly on the chess board of reality.
Part 2
Now, I am totally excited to blast away anyone who threatens the lives of my family. Just finished my 16 hours, all my ducks are in a row and I am just waiting to complete the application CCW holders are the most law abiding people as we did what we needed to in order to keep a clean record and to keep our rights. In the attempted robbery I was an attepted victim of, the thug came up to me and pointed what looked to be a pistol at my abdoman. He kept looking behind him the whole time and I mean for seconds at a time. Had I been able to legally carry at the time, the guy would have been dead. these guys have no sense of the proper way to do things. My instructor said the best way to take on a gang banger is head on because they cant shoot! There will be a lot of dead thugs sooner or later. We just need to make sure we continue to train and train so that we can be proficient when the time comes. No innocents and no kids.
Part 1
It used to always upsets me when someone other that a “minority” would point out FACTS regarding crime in this city/country. It would hurt to hear a white person say anything negative about my people. But, wait for it, my PEOPLE helped me get over this. After being the victim of an attempted robbery (he punked out) and after seeing so many thugs just running wild around the city, terrorizing the very community they come from, I have learned to accept the truth for what it is, the Truth! I was blessed to have a middle class upbringing with a mother and father who actually cared and instilled hard work, self sacrafice, and the love of guns in me. As blacks, we (our political figures, etc) must stand up and admit and accept the reasons for the failings of the past generations post civil rights. Our forfathers that actually had to deal with racist whites and the lack of rights are turning in their graves. I used to be liberal but I a mnow a staunch conservative, not out of hate or malice for any one person or group, but because I believe in the tenants. The truth is that many of the violent crimes are committed by young black men with no family stucture and no education. Does it hurt to admit this? Yes! Is it true? Yes!
As a current Illinoisan (I know I know) counting the days in which I can fully exercise my 2A rights, and thumb my nose at Quinny Pooh, Rahmfather and the Madigans.
“As a current Illinoisan (I know I know) counting the days in which I can fully exercise my 2A rights, and thumb my nose at Quinny Pooh, Rahmfather and the Madigans.”
… Except for the 22 or so “gun free zones” where Illinois decided by legislative fiat to criminalize concealed carry.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but paying just shy of $1000 for your FOID card, concealed carry training, and concealed carry license and being told that the state will bust your chops if you carry concealed into 22 locations, is not “fulling exercising your 2nd Amendment rights”.
The People of Illinois deserve these idiots.
It’s going to be really funny in a couple of years when the crime rates drop, like it did in, oh every state that allows carry?
“Police officers are going to have to show a lot of restraint”
Well, there’s a first time for everything. Frankly, I’d rather take my chances with Crips than cops.
“throwing newly legalized handguns into the mix could have tragic consequences”
Translation: Innocent concealed carriers are going to get shot by hot-headed cops.
“Dart said he expected more shootings to occur — including those that are ruled justified”
Translation: After an officer shoots an innocent concealed carrier, the appropriate paperwork will be completed to absolve the officer.
I’m sure they’ll have a stack of the appropriate forms by the door so the officers can pick up a handful on their way out to cover their shift.
Just sign on the dotted line… JUSTIFIED!
Ding Ding Ding, give this man a prize!
Has their been any info put out on if IL will respect any of their neighboring states CCL? I would love to hit Chicago with my family this summer from my home in Wisconsin, but I want to be packing for sure.
No out-of-state permits will be honored. Wanna carry in Illinois? Pony up $300 for the non-resident license and take 16 hours of “training” at a cost of about another $300. Oh, and the approved trainers are in Illinois, so pay for some gas as well.
There is not reciprocity, but there is some allowance for travelers driving through Illinois.
From the Illinois State Police website (http://www.isp.state.il.us/firearms/ccw/ccw-faq.cfm):
“Out of state residents are granted a limited exception to lawfully carry a concealed firearm within a vehicle if they are eligible to carry a firearm in public under the laws of their state or territory of residence and are not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal law. This rule became effective immediately.
If the non-resident leaves his/her vehicle unattended, he or she shall store the firearm within a locked vehicle or locked container within the vehicle in accordance with subsection (b) of Section 65 of the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.”
Most police officers deal with the fact that citizens can carry concealed weapons whether through permit or by virtue of it being unregulated in their jurisdiction; I think it speaks to this man’s opinion of police that he would suggest they can’t handle it in his state.
Remember that chiefs and other political appointees are not cops. Some never were, and some had the cop beaten out of them (or were selected for their ability to kiss ass and backstab instead of do policework). While many readers here may deride LEOSA (which allows police to carry handguns without a permit), you’d find yourself in the same boat as the Order of Chiefs of Police, who tried to get Congress to limit or kill the bill. Not because they felt citizens should have the same rights as police, but because the bill took away their power to tell their officers whether or not they could carry.
Agree. And good point about the motivations of the leadership: If they’ve hired the right people, they shouldn’t need such extensive control.
As a lifelong Illinois resident, I laugh at the reputation this state gets. I’m sitting here with my AK (with no slave state modifications), standard capacity magazines (plus some evil “high capacity” 40 rounders and a drum), and I’m about to put in for a new Rifle Dynamics Krink SBR (now legal in this state). The icing on the cake? I live 10 minutes from Chicago. I love that everybody in other states hang us out to dry, but we’re here with everything you guys have. This is not New York. Do not put us in the same category as them. The only thing I’m missing is my Illinois concealed carry permit (which I’ll have within 6 months).
I really don’t understand why the entire state of Illinois is lumped in with Chicago. Chicago has their own laws. The rest of Illinois is sitting pretty. I can’t say I’m completely happy with our laws, but we’re a million times better off than New York, California, and all of the other slave states. We should be putting more effort into making Illinois a gun haven, because we’re not that far off. Illinois is a battle ground, but I honestly believe with the gun community rallying behind us we can be the face of pro gun reform. End rant.
Hope you don’t live in Cook County with that AK. And, if you’re not in Cook County, screw you for reminding me that I should have purchased a house in DuPage County. (My conversion to one of the people of the gun occurred after the house was bought.)
Dude I’m a mile from the Cook County border in DuPage County. Come on down!
I thought I heard that Aurora banned ARs, no?
Heck, I can probably see your house from here. I managed to buy a house 100 yards outside of Chicago city limits but also just a couple miles from the DuPage County line. So close yet so far away.
Aurora “has a ban” on “assault rifles”, but I’ve had my AK in Aurora many times without an issue. The gun shop in Aurora sells AR’s and standard capacity magazines. It’s not enforced at all. The only reason that ordinance is there is to make the soccer moms on the Naperville side feel safe.
Gun haven in Il? Sounds good.
It’s a realistic possibility! I’ll never lose faith
Can you walk down the street with that rifle on a sling over your shoulder, without getting shot or arrested?
Jeez, if the police is so worried about their safety at traffic stops, then stop stop conducting then… Oh, wait, the state makes money off it.
Deal with it Dart,It’s federal Law and you are full of CRAP.Why don’t you sit through your own 14 hr CCW course,maybe you will learn a thing or two before you open your big,Clueless mouth! Dumbass!
Second City Cop had a fairly good rebuttal to ol’ Dart’s ranting. I don’t know a ton of cops, but the ones I do could give 2 poops if an upstanding polite member of society is carrying:
“We’ll repeat what we’ve contended for years – over 99% of the Concealed Carry permit people will never have interaction with the police. You’ll never see them or their weapons, because these aren’t the people out there driving like a$$holes, domesticating in the street, buying dope around town, robbing strangers, wilding downtown, etc, etc. You will see them if they are forced to exercise their Right in defense of their lives or the lives of another, and in those cases, there are going to be plenty of cops and detectives there, with plenty of bosses running around telling us all what to do (wrongly no doubt.) Cops in 49 other states seem to handle this with few problems, and we’re pretty sure we’re as smart as most of them.”
http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2013/11/concelaed-carry-training.html
This Sheriff sounds like another uneducated asshat boob from Chicago politics.
No one under his control should pay any attention to this KlowN and all will be good.
““Police officers are going to have to show a lot of restraint,” he said. “You might get people that are carrying the weapon legally that get obnoxious with a law enforcement officer.”
You mean, they won’t be free to shoot people, just because they’re in a bad mood?
If his offers are going to have so much trouble with this, perhaps they need more/better training or maybe he should reach out to Sheriff’s in, say Arizona and Texas, and see what magic option they use to “deal” with free citizens
At the next supreme court case concerning firearms I hope this video, and the many others like it by other thugs with badges, will be presented as evidence as to why that phrase, “shall not be infringed” is in the second amendment.
“I don’t know anybody in this debate who’s going to sit there and say that with more guns out there it’s not going to lend itself to more shootings,”
REALLY!? The whole other side of this debate says that.
This is a very obvious lie.
I don’t mean a lie as in he must be delusional, or as in somewhat true. He just lied in front of everyone on both sides. He absolutely knows that many people (even if it was a minority) do believe that more guns, especially guns owned by permit holders, will not cause more shootings.
This is not a “whoops” moment or an accident. Even a child can learn that there are a couple perspectives in this debate. The child would not tell the public that one perspective simply doesn’t exist.
Wikipedia is telling me this guy is still in office. So I guess everyone is going to ignore his blatant public lie(s).
I have been finishing up my 16 hours of training for the IL CCW permit process as required this week. Tonight is our Range exercise and qualification (yay!)
What has struck me about the training is the stupidity of the laws and how utterly paranoid folks in this state are about CITIZENS carrying guns meanwhile criminals and murderers and rapists are in and out of jail in months … and rarely if ever are they charged with illegal gun use.
I watched the conceal carry laws get passed on our live video into the state legislature and that was the most frightening part of it by far. One week they spent 6+ hours working on one sentence … arguing about the definitions of common words, strategically constructing the sentence to give the police the maximum chance to nail someone for carrying etc.
Then, you’d get these lefties from Chicago / Cook County pontificating at the podium and trotting out much-dedunked, untrue statements that they continued to present as “facts” long after everyone knew they were crap.
It really made me realize that this country is going to hell in a hand basket if we don’t cull the Liberals soon.
Why don’t these Illinois communists look to “shall issue” states to get a glimpse of concarry ? Safest states in the Union. A look at such would destroy their arguments.