Ohio gun owners with concealed carry permits have a “duty to inform.” If they’re stopped by the police for any reason and fail to “promptly” tell the officer or officers that they’re carrying, they face a six-month suspension of their concealed weapon license and a misdemeanor conviction. According to cincinnati.com, legislators are considering removing the obligation . . .
Several Republican lawmakers want to eliminate that requirement, saying current law is vague and arbitrarily enforced. For example, a driver involved in a crash told the first three police officers on the scene that he had a concealed handgun license but was cited for failing to tell the fourth officer who arrived, said Rep. Scott Wiggam, R-Wooster, who introduced the bill.
“There’s no duty to promptly notify for anything else,” Wiggam told The Enquirer. People who hold concealed weapon licenses “are great citizens in society.”
Not surprisingly, Ohio’s Fraternal Order of Police of Ohio and the Buckeye State Sheriffs’ Association are against removing the state’s firearms-disclosure requirement.
“There’s no reason for a law-abiding citizen not to tell a law enforcement officer that they have a concealed handgun,” said Mike Weinman, director of government affairs for the FOP of Ohio. That notification removes some of the tension between an officer and the person stopped, he added.
Question: what police force trains officers to assume that an individual being interviewed is unarmed — unless notified? One thing we know for sure: the civilian disarmament industrial complex is fighting this repeal-and-don’t-replace initiative tooth and nail.
“We continue to see proposals from the Ohio Legislature that would loosen the restrictions for a very small percentage of Ohioans who chose to carry hidden, loaded weapons in our public spaces,” said Jennifer Thorne, executive director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence.
Assuming the gun owners Ms. Thorne is referring to are law-abiding citizens, why is this a problem? Here’s one the police prepared earlier:
In Ohio, an officer can run a license plate and find out if the person to whom the car is registered has a permit for a concealed weapon. That doesn’t help if the car is driven by a family member or friend or if the car is stolen.
“Doesn’t help.” That’s a funny way of saying that the law makes things worse for law abiding citizens. Which is one reason why it should be eliminated.
Much smarter to inform should your gun inadvertently become visible but there needn’t be a law for it. And if there needn’t be, generally there shouldn’t be.
Might be a good idea, might not. But you’re right, there shouldn’t be a law requiring it. I’m sure it’s for ‘officer safety’ that they want this to stay… but is the requirement for EVERYONE who is carrying to inform, or only permit holders? If they want to have a requirement to inform, it should only cover those carrying illegally. Coming clean early on might help out a little with a gun charge. If one is carrying legally, they’re legal. Period.
Bad attitude! It only applies to those legally carrying, for others it violates the 5th amendment prohibitions on self-incrimination.
It’s always fun when obeying the law is its own punishment.
To the progressive crowd, vague and arbitrarily enforced laws aren’t a flaw, they’re the goal.
I guess that depends where you are at that time. In Utah I think the police just assume all law abiding citizens are exercising their 2a rights. To quote a decent movie about some cops(hot fuzz) “everybody and their mum’s packin round here”.
Oh and last I checked Utah had no laws about informing officers and yeah it seems a lot like a non-issue. I’ve heard the police can see your cc permit info when they run your license. If true, I’m sure that helps. And probably explains why I’ve gotten out of a few speeding tickets without much explanation.
“There’s no reason for a law-abiding citizen not to tell a law enforcement officer that they have a concealed handgun,” said Mike Weinman, director of government affairs for the FOP of Ohio. That notification removes some of the tension between an officer and the person stopped, he added.
Yep, and if they remove that requirement, there’s nothing that prohibits them from still telling the cop they’re armed. But if the law abiding citizen happens to not tell the cop, they shouldn’t get hemmed up simply for that omission.
Law enforcement seems to feel a need to require everything they want by law… you know, ‘because they want to go home at night’… Well, hopefully this legislature will get this one right and remove that requirement.
The thing is, this doesn’t even help officers make it home each night. Unless we are to postulate that someone who is of a mind to kill a cop is going to abide by this notification law…
Exactly my point. They go on and on about how getting the MOST law abiding group of people to jump through hoops to tell them that they have a firearm on them, when they’re NOT criminals, and have NO ill intent, and then claim that it’s for officer safety. But they probably have no requirement, and the punishment isn’t even increased, if a criminal (prohibited from even HAVING a gun) has one, and also doesn’t notify the officer that he has one. So it’s truly a gotcha kind of law that only applies to the law abiding, while having no impact at all on the criminal class, the ones the cops actually should be wary of.
I try to keep up with things here in Ohio. Why was I not informed of this?
Is it April 1st already?
“There’s no reason for a law-abiding citizen not to tell a law enforcement officer that they have a concealed handgun,”
The hell you say?
In Ohio, at least back when I got a permit there, informing the police officer meant he/she had the choice to disarm you or not. If they chose to disarm you it meant exiting the vehicle and letting them handle your piece (which they will usually want to unload), a gun they may or may not be familiar with and possibly do this in the dark. The risk of an ND just skyrocketed and unintended or not I’d prefer not to get shot and I’d REALLY prefer not to get shot with my own gun thanks to Officer Scaredy McDumbass.
On top of that, depending on how the officer chooses to handle the situation the risk of someone getting hit by a car during a traffic stop just went up.
Yet further, it’s embarrassing and unnecessary for a citizen to have to go through a process where they put their hands on a car while you disarm them and thereby make it look to all passersby like the law abiding person did something wrong and is being arrested.
Duty to inform is a “gotcha” rule built into the law. The legal CCW permit holder is no threat to the cop and informing them that you’re carrying only gives the anxious/power tripping police officer a reason to do something stupid. Meanwhile, the criminal who’s about to actually shoot a cop during a stop isn’t going to inform the officer regardless of the law.
^ Yep! ^ This is why “Duty to inform” is a stupid idea! Cops will get in the habit of trying to disarm citizens “for everyone’s safety” which is A. bull shit and B. dangerous. I sometimes carry an NAA mini revolver as a backup in a pocket holster, I would be shocked if more than a third of the cops out there could successfully unload it without an AD in full daylight conditions. The safest place for a gun on the hip or in the pocket of a legal carrier is for it to stay right where it is, because a gun that stays in it’s holster isn’t going to just go bang!
A high percentage of the time when you’re stopped in Ohio, the officer will ask if you’ve got a concealed weapon. A lot of times when you tell them, even if you are carrying, the officer will say, “Oh, I’m not worried about people like you.”
About the only places you’re going to get jammed up for not telling the officer is Toledo, Cleveland, by Columbus City PD, or Dayton. Basically, the cities that never accepted that the firearms pre-emption statute that eliminated all the local ordinances on firearms. Most of them are places where you really need to be carrying a gun. I’ve lived in all 4 and Cleveland is the worst of them.
Springfield cops shit themselves over a CCW permit too.
Cleveland city…maybe. I’ve never been pulled over there. But I got pulled over in one of the suburbs and I’m pretty sure the fact I was carrying got me out of a speeding ticket. We ended up chatting about our SIGs and he sent me on my way with just a warning.
This has been my experience as well. About 20% of my interactions have resulted in a very noticeable possitive effect (i.e. the cop was happy that I had a permit and a pistol), most of the rest of the time when I have ‘informed’ it’s been waived off with a sort of ‘yeah, yeah, I know already, don’t care, it isn’t relevant and the duty to inform law is dumb’ sort of dismissive gesture and look.
Interestingly, I habitually carry two pistols and when I’ve informed that I’m armed I’m often asked where my weapon is, when I give two locations I often have gotten grins or ended up talking about the cops BUG.
I have yet to have an officer react badly, but then I live in a low violent crime rural area where everyone either knows everyone, is actually related to everyone, or has no more than 2 degrees of separation from anyone else.
In Missouri, we do not have a “duty to inform”. However, I usually advise my CCW students to “inform” the officer they have a valid CCW permit (obviously different than, “I have a gun on me”). I do this for 2 reasons.
1) The officers can find out if they want to. They have access to that database (in Missouri, it is no longer the same as the DMV database – different topic for a different day)
2) It should put the officer at ease. We have a course requirement to acquire a CCW permit, followed by a background check at the state level and a finger print scan and FBI background check. So that SHOULD tell the officer you’ve been through at least 3 background checks (add a 3rd to buy the firearm) and hopefully let him know he’s not dealing with a criminal.
With that being said, “Duty to inform” statutes are literally dumb. All it leads to are cases where the language of the law is twisted to hurt good, honest people trying to do the right thing.
(Like the lady from PA caught for speeding in NJ and almost went to federal prison because her permit wasn’t good in NJ and she told the officer she had a permit and was carrying)
The MN victim was shot ‘because’ he informed the officer. 4th District I think it was just ruled that if you are carrying that the officer can shoot you because you ‘may become dangerous’ and when they perceive a threatening movement well, you should not have been carrying a firearm.
What happened to put your hands in full view, be compliant, and have the officer direct the way the encounter goes. They should know within their database in my state (MA). I don’t have to tell and won’t unless they ask and then with my hands in plain view the response is “yes officer, I am carrying today and my firearm is located at or in”
Steve, I’ve been following the Castile case since I live in Minnesota. So far all of the official reports I’ve been hearing is that he told the officer he “had a gun”. And it looks like it was pocket carried.
The dashcam video with audio hasn’t been released and I think the trial begins the end of May for the officer who’s charged with manslaughter.
Stay tuned.
Here’s a good reason to get rid of the requirement. Sort of a long video, but informative.
https://youtu.be/kassP7zI0qc
I remember watching this video and it’s EXACTLY what I was thinking about when I read the article. I was also surprised that, because of the incident on the video, this mandate wasn’t repealed years ago.
Talk about a idiot, misguided, moronic cop… They let him sit there for six minutes before ever contacting him, THEN try to blame HIM for cops getting shot? Hope that cop isn’t around anymore. However you want to take that, is fine.
Ive never been pulled out of the car when ive told officer. Ive been asked to put it on the dash before but that was in VA.any place that opposes this are the cities whete you need a gun the most. Cleveland espcially.
The capitol of ohio is columbus. The power is in cleveland for some dumb reason. Cleveland is a city on life support. Sure people are spending money now. Next time a major riot goes down the city will die. Good riddance.
Such vitriol. There are good people in Cleveland. I’m one of them.
Cleveland’s a great town! I grew up near there on the lake. Toledo on the other hand…
That’s practically Michigan. You’ll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
That’s a great idea!! If law enforcement personnel aren’t capable of asking a simple question “Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?” they shouldn’t even be in law entrapment, oops I mean law enfarcement?. It shouldn’t be up to the law abiding citizen to inform. That’s just law harassment.
I live in a not so gun friendly state in the Mid-Atlantic region. We have no duty to inform, but every time I’ve been pulled over or stopped, which is more than I care to admit, the first question asked is “Do you have any weapons?” I have not been pulled over for quite some time, and never while carrying since I’ve received my ccw. The law makes no sense. If the cop asks and I’m caught lying, I’m in a world of shite
I guess I have not been keeping up. When I got my license, TX was DTI and I understood it. Recently, though, we have also gotten open carry and permitless car carry, so long as it’s concealed. SO! Say I’m OCing an engraved and inlaid long slide .45 in a tricolor leather holster with silver accents and a fringe, on my way to a BBQ, when I am pulled over. Do I really need to inform the cop that I am carrying? How about I do NOT have a license, have a gun in my console. Where does the DTI come in? I really don’t know, but it seems rather dumb to require the license holder to inform, but not the car carrier. So far I am easy to get along with, because I think TX will be constitutional carry pretty quick, now, this is all just laws to be passing thru.
I have no problem with duty to inform as long as it’s handled sensibly. In the example cited by Scott Wiggam, somebody was just being a prick. It would be sufficient to amend the law to say that the carrier has fulfilled his duty if he notifies the first officer or one of the first officers on the scene. In my state, which is DTI, a licensed carrier was so distracted by a traffic accident that he forgot to notify the investigating officer that there was a handgun inside his vehicle until it was about to be towed away. He was charged with failure to inform and the county attorney refused to take the circumstances into consideration.
And THAT is why the law should be eliminated. Period. Not just handled ‘smartly’ but eliminated. There’s no guarantee that future government cronies will handle it intelligently (more likely just the opposite, if it’s ever handled properly), so it just needs to go away.
1.) Permits/LTC/CCP/Government, or Local/State Police Permission slip$ + “Duty to inform” – Constitutional-Bill of Rights- “Miranda Rights” = “Constitutional Waivers?!”
2.) “Due process…A person is innocent till proven guilty in a court of law…Without a shadow of doubt…”
3.)1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and , 14th amendment obviously applies….
4.) The 2nd Amendment is the Law of the land…Which “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED !”
“Nationwide Constitutional Carry” is part of this right…Until arrested, charged, and adjudicated for an “actual crime.” (Re: NOT Jaywalking, Driving with an expired driver’s license-an arrestable offence in most states, Breach of the peace- under arbitrary and capricious circumstances, or by “False Narrative”….)
I guess my question would be….how many police have been shot by legal CCW holders? I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that number is QUITE low.
There is another problem with duty to inform: privacy with respect to other passengers in the vehicle. I might be traveling with a relative, friend, boss, or business client and I do NOT want them to know that I have a concealed carry license and firearm. However, duty to inform forces me to disclose private information to those other people in the vehicle.
This is yet another reason that “duty to inform” has to go.
I’m sure you and the rest of the clowntards from southern Illinois and exurbia will be lobbying your state legislators to remove Duty to Inform from Brandon Phelps carry bill at the IGOLD March of the Hicks next week in Springfield. Maybe not, your hero Phelps is pushing a bill to legalize courthouse carry for assistant State’s Attorneys. Taking care of the government hacks and lawyers is an important priority for NRA and the good old boys.
Say hello to Valinda Rowe from (southern) Illinois Carry when you mill around at IGOLD, she’ll be handing out the yellow T-shirts. In addition to being the token female front woman for ISRA and Mother Theresa of Illinois gun rights, Valinda is one of the people who sold out Otis McDonald by failing to oppose Duty to Inform in Phelps bill.
Phelps is her state Rep. down south in Little Egypt, and DTI only affects black people up north like Otis, so who cares if a few blacks in Chicago get their heads blown off like Philando Castile? Not the good Christian hypocrites in southern Illinois.
Ohio’s disclosure law is poorly written and too often abused. Ohio’s disclosure law needs to either be rewritten or done away with. I vote for the later.
There are over 40 states without such a law and there is no indication its absence causes any issues. Go back and reread that sentence.
Most permit holders will notify voluntarily via the means they are most comfortable with or if asked by the LEO.
Ohio’s law is a solution looking for a problem that simply does not exist in the real world. A well trained LEO knows to treat everyone as if they are armed and a potential threat till proven otherwise during the contact. A well trained LEO will ask about any weapons during the initial contact. A well trained LEO will not freak out at the mere sight of a holstered handgun otherwise they need to find another career
Ohio cops have a long record of ORDERING people with concealed carry credentials to remain silent, then ARRESTING.them for OBEYING THEIR ORDERS. Google “Daniel Harless” That’s hardly the only example.
Ohio cops have repeatedly abused the law. The opportunity to do so needs to be taken from them.
As a retired Ohio LEO and an Ohio CCW instructor I can tell you that the “Duty to Inform” is not necessary as a law. Officers are taught to consider everyone armed and are notified by dispatch that the person has a permit attached to the vehicle tags or drivers license/State ID. What you may not be aware of is the Courts have declared it acceptable for the officer, once you announce you are a permit holder and are carrying, to remove you form your vehicle (at gun point if the officers feels this is required) place you face down on the road, handcuff you, take custody of the firearm, place you in the back of his patrol car, and you are not considered as being under arrest or detained. This is just for officer safety. Once the stop/citation is completed the officer is supposed to release you and return your firearm in the same condition he received it. All this because you followed the law. Fortunately most officers I have had contact with (and those I trained) merely acknowledge when informed and ask where the firearm is located. They then thank the citizen for letting them know about the firearm. I can attest that there are a lot more people carrying than have a permit and most of those would be considered law abiding by society..
In VA we have no duty to inform and a traffic stop inquiry will not show if you have a CHP. That said, I don’t know what I would do since it has never happened. Of course, most officers ask if there are any weapons in the car, but there is no duty to answer that question either. All that said, what worries me most is the one bad apple who wants to disarm me. There are no circumstances where I want another person handling my weapon, period. I’m not sure how I would deal with that.
The best argument agents Ohio’s notification law that I have heard protein to the 5th Amendment. Here in Ohio you must inform that you have a CHL if you are armed. If you are armed you must carry your CHL and another form of state ID.
If by accident you do not have your CHL or another ID you by law have to rat yourself out. Giving up your 5th Amendment right not to incriminate yourself.
In NC we have a “duty” to inform. However I refuse to say anything until I know why I was pulled over. I have only been pulled a handful of times, mostly seat belt violations, and only once did the officer hesitate to tell me why he pulled me. Eventually he did and I complied the rest of the stop and we both went on our merry ways.
One thing for sure, the officer is in no more danger if I didn’t inform than if I do. It has zero bearing on his safety.
Duty to Inform was placed in Illinois state Rep. Brandon Phelps “NRA backed” concealed carry bill in 2013 by NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde, because the IL Chiefs of Police wanted it. The IL Chiefs totally opposed any sort of citizen carry for the past FORTY YEARS, but Phelps’ pet rat bent over backwards to hand the police unions DTI on a platter.
Tim McCarthy of Orland Park was the president of the IL Chiefs when Vandermyde cut the deal on Duty to Inform in the NRA bill. That’s the same Tim McCarthy who was a Secret Service agent when President Reagan was shot, and the same Tim McCarthy who has been promoting gun control with Jim & Sarah Brady for the past thirty years. Gun control orgs like the Brady Campaign, anti-gun police unions, and NRA, Inc. are all on the same side: against you.
If DTI was important for “officer safety” retired cops carrying under LEOSA would have to tell on-duty cops that they are armed. DTI is legal cover for police execution if licensed citizens “resist” like Philando Castile in Minnesota.
The times I’ve been stopped I’ve notified the officer I was carrying and he just told me he already knew and asked where it was kept and to not touch it. Did our interaction and went about our normal ways.
yes I have my permit. the first officer on scene should have control, the others i should not have to tell my responsability is over.