TTAG’s Armed Intelligentsia don’t need me to tell them just how badly this Occupy Democrats’ meme fails. But it’s interesting that zerohedge.com, a pro-gun website misses the mark.
The problem with this claim should be immediately obvious. Box cutters and liquids were banned from commercial airplanes. Nearly 100% of adult Americans still own bottles of liquids and knife-like objects such as box cutters. Few people would argue that there’s anything wrong with banning unauthorized personnel with carrying semi-automatic rifles in preschools and dance clubs. It’s something that can be achieved with private security, and we would be well-advised to beef it up in places that are likely to be targets of mass shootings.
Oy. While the NRA may agree with this “defend soft targets with private security meme” — considering NRA Veep Wayne LaPierre’s recent comment that “we should not have firearms where people are drinking” and the gun rights org’s post-Newtown proposal to put an armed guard in every school — zerohedge.com is equally misguided.
I am one of those “few people” who argue that firearms bans in schools and dance clubs is very wrong. If a teacher or parent had been armed at Sandy Hook, the outcome may have been very different (in a good way). If a bartender or patron had been armed at The Pulse Nightclub had been armed in Orlando, the outcome may have been very different (in a good way).
If either locale had more than one armed civilian ready to defend innocent life, well, you get the point. As for people carrying “assault rifles” in these soft targets, it would have been a tad clumsy, but entirely useful. Anyway, as I said, our AI can fill in the blanks. As for the NRA and zerohedge.com, they’re firing them. Which is a bad idea on a lot of levels.
This was perfect hahaha
Why can’t we understand the connection with islamic terrorists and mass killings? Get back to me when barry acknowledges that connection.
Are you trying to say that a religion focused on hate and violence promotes hate and violence?! Bigot!
Please redact the words Islamic and terrorists so we don’t offend anyone. Those words are illegal per Barry Asshat. Replace aforementioned words with something like kittens, unicorns, pixie dust, or cotton candy.
Sincerely,
Progressive Statist Libtards
• Not all Muslims are jihadists.
• But all jihadist are Muslims.
/end
“There are two types of Muslims: those who have become radicalized, and those who HAVE YET TO become radicalized.” -G. Gordon Liddy
Trying to follow the meme’s logic…Is the meme creator suggesting that terrorists are currently allowed to have assault weapons on planes? Because I’m pretty certain they aren’t.
Here’s the reality, foretold many decades ago….
Why can’t we make the connection between all firearms and the acts of self and family defense they are used for every day?
I guarantee you that ar15 style rifles have saved far more lives than they have taken. Even the lives of the bad guys in which they induce a change of mind.
Ordinary Americans need modern sporting rifles for defense because the government WILL NOT protect ordinary Americans from terrorists, coconuts, cartels and thuglifes.
Rodney King Riots — Police fled from the scene of the riots and told citizens to defend themselves.
Hurricane Katrina — Police disarmed law–abiding citizens and then joined in the looting.
Columbine — The first person the shooters encountered was a deputy sheriff who hid rather than engage them.
……There are hundreds more examples.
such as the very incident this is talking about?
No loss of life was incurred by liquids over 3 ounces… and it is ineffective anyway to anyone with even a modicum of knowledge about chemistry and/or explosives…
After the Orlando Pulse incident, we banned guns in bars… oh wait…
Most schools, public buildings and places that cater to controversial persons can be protected with additional sets of entrance doors that are interlocked to restrict access. Remote controlled locks and an alert attendant could keep out most threats.
“…could keep out most threats.”
It’s that “most threats” part that causes the problem. No one can keep out ALL threats. No Constitution can prevent any possibility of tyranny. That is why we have the natural right to self defense and why we need the Second Amendment to protect that right from government infringement.
Also, handing off the responsibility for your personal safety and security to a hired agent who has only his paycheck as motivation to stand between you and deadly danger seems rather foolhardy. He (she) has friends and family that they want to go home to as well and taking a billet for you kind of gets in the way of that. Didn’t I read somewhere that the armed security guard at Pulse bailed and did not return while the carnage was going on?
And by the way…
I visited the Social Security office in Tacoma Washington a while ago. Entrance to the actual office and waiting area was “protected” by two armed TSA (yes, armed TSA) agents manning a metal detector. IN the waiting area there were about 25 people who had been admitted. In the hallway waiting for chairs to open up in the waiting area were another 80-100 people standing in line (who had not been screened for weapons) outside of the view of either of those TSA agents. This hallway was accessed from the parking lot through double glass doors and these doors were also not in sight of the TSA agents.
Situational Awareness – the entire time I stood in that line I was acutely aware that my pistol was locked in my car and that anyone could walk in those doors from the parking lot and shoot any or all of the people waiting in line before the TSA guys even knew what was happening. It would take only slightly more effort to enter those doors, take a quick right turn and finish both of those guards which would leave EVERYONE a soft target.
Guards on doors and at metal detectors have different agendas than making sure you get home at night. Only an idiot would rely on them for protection.
You must not fly very much. That’s been the obvious problem since 9/11… hundreds or thousands of folks bunched together waiting to be screened… or slaughtered, depending.
But it’s all just for show anyway. Having body scanners OR metal detectors– and not both– is beyond stupid as far as effectiveness goes.
Check point = choke point
Not all in clubs drink alcohol. A sober person should be permitted to carry if our parental overlords would only allow it.
In Washington state, you can’t carry in bars, even if you’re not drinking, but you can get plastered while packing in a restaurant and it’s perfectly legal. The closer one examines so-called “common sense” gun laws, the more one realizes they’re nothing of the sort.
My friends, children and family deserve to live long lives in an America reasonably free of fear of being shot by some whack-o who had easy access to a weapon issued to the military or by a stray round from some gun-crazy wanna’ be NRA “hero”. Both types are dangerous as hell, and neither wants to be “well regulated”.
And the “good guy with a gun” scenario was heavily debunked many times before.
Not one good guy has ever stopped a mass killing, Not a single incident that has happened since the CT tragedy.
Parents, Friends and families of the victims shouldn’t have to live with the fact that guns continue to remain easy to get and that it’s somehow their fault?
So when will this country learn to keep deadly weapons off the streets and away from the hands of terrorists and mentally unstable folks who should’nt have them.
Yeah, your right to own a deadly weapon that is more likely to kill yourself or a loved one is more important than the thousands of individuals that die due to your selfish hobby.
How is Australia, Japan or Europe considered a tyranny?
Oh i forgot, Excellent education, improved healthcare and economy and low violent crime and oh freedoms is considered ” vile and tyrannical”.
.I find it hilarious how you people continue to defend your “right” against corrupt government when the corrupt NRA has control of the politicians.
These gun control laws would not have effected the 2nd and 4th.
Almost 8 years have past and I still don’t see our president taking guns away. When will this selfish tinfoil hat conspiracy you people promote end?
I see kirk from brisbane aka willy lunchmeat found a way around being banned.
Ahhhh, the ‘magic’ of the sock puppet…
”
Not one good guy has ever stopped a mass killing, Not a single incident that has happened since the CT tragedy.”
http://crimeresearch.org/2015/04/uber-driver-in-chicago-stops-mass-public-shooting/
private, legally armed citizens have done this 19 times, before and after the CT tragedy. Go home and cry now.
Well-regulated, as per the Heller Court, has nothing to do with government regulation and everything to do with well-trained.
Also, in Europe, the funny thing is that most other countries (France, Poland, Hungary, Switzerland, Italy, Czech Republic, Slovenia) and New Zealand allow ownership of semi-automatic weapons and large magazines, but don’t have the crime level or mass shooting levels as the US, so guns definitely aren’t the problem.
/sarc fixed it for you
Do you swim or drive a car?
You are far more likely to be killed by a pool or an automobile than by a gun.
My cousin was killed by a drunk driver. I do not blame the company that made the booze, or the company that manufactured the car.
Alcohol prohibition did not work and drug prohibition is a failure. What makes you think gun prohibition will go any better?
Concern troll is concerned, it’s right there in his name.
Actually a good guy with a gun has stopped mass killings a number of times:
1. Pearl High School – Assistant Principal Joel Myrick stopped Luke Woodham from killing more people at his high school and then going across the street to the middle school as he had planned.
2. Parker Middle School – James Strand stopped a student who had shot and killed some students and a teacher.
3. Appalachian School of Law – law students stopped a former student who had killed a dean, a professor, a student, and wounded three other students.
4. New Life Church – Jeanne Assam shot Matthew Murray after he killed four and wounded four more.
5. New York Mills AT&T Store – Donald J. Moore killed a man carrying a .357 revolver who had begun shooting people. Only one was wounded before Moore killed the gunman, who had a list of people in his pocket that he was going to murder.
6. Sullivan Central High School – Carolyn Gudger got in a gun battle with a 62-year old man who had forced his way into the school armed with two pistols.
7. Freewill Baptist Church – Aaron Guyton used his concealed handgun to stop a man with a shotgun.
8. Clackamas Town Center Mall – shopper Nick Meli drew his gun on a gunman who had already killed two and wounded a third person. When confronted by Meli the murderer killed himself.
9. Mystic Strip Club – Jonathan Baer drew his concealed handgun and shot Tom Hjelmeland who had begun shooting people, a patron and a waitress.
10. Austin, Texas Construction Site – the site’s foreman drew his concealed pistol and shot an irate former employee who had come to the site and opened fire on his co-workers.
11. Cache Valley Hospital – two people shot a man armed with two guns who told hospital employees “someone is going to die today.”
12. Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital – a patient at a psychiatric clinic killed his case worker and wounded his doctor, Lee Silverman. Before the gunman could leave the office and continue his rampage, Dr. Silverman drew his own concealed handgun and killed the patient.
13. Trolley Square Mall – man used his gun to pin down a killer until SWAT arrived.
There’s a few for you. Should we find more? The problem is that many or most of these types of shootings happen in gun-free zones like the schools and hospitals above. In many cases above the people had to retrieve their guns from their cars because it was against the law for them to carry them in those places. Just think of how many more lives could be saved if people weren’t forced to go unarmed into these gun-free zones.
Edit: 14. I forgot the Uber driver someone listed above!
Great post Danny. Sadly(or stupidly) Uber banned gun toting drivers after this hero used his gat…
Uber banned guns from both drivers and riders, with all the efficiency of any “No Guns” sign or “Gun Free Zone” proclamation. No one is checking. Uber drivers are independent contractors. The WORST thing that could happen if you were somehow found out is to be removed as an Uber driver. No Uber driver I know of asks a rider before they get in the car to prove they are not armed.
I never asked this stupid question of a rider when I was Uber, and I NEVER went out without my Ruger in the console.
Uber cars are exactly as gun-free as any other Gun Free Zone – don’t count on it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sapz4qVyHGI&feature=youtu.be
theoretically a cop is a good guy with a gun…
One does have to marvel at your ability to form words.
“Almost 8 years have past and I still don’t see our president taking guns away.”
Because any cursory reading of The Constitution of the United States of America will reveal to any person with a passing knowledge of the English language that the President does not have any Constitutional authority to ignore the Second Amendment. Even Barrack Obama stated categorically at least twenty times that he did not have that authority.
Second point, the President cannot create legislation, that is the province of Congress, and Congress (thank goodness) is majority held by Republicans (and RINOs) who will not present any gun control legislation for the President to sign. It may well be that a majority of Senators and Congressmen understand that they also do not have the authority to ignore the Second Amendment.(“…shall not be infringed”)
The only Constitutional means of government regulation of guns is contained in Article V of the Constitution and involves a lengthy and difficult process of creating a Constitutional amendment that repeals, revokes or otherwise revises the Second Amendment such that it no longer means what the Founding Fathers meant it to mean nor serves the purpose they meant it to serve. Such an amendment would have to be ratified by the legislatures of at least 38 states, a Herculean, possibly impossible, goal. If by some miracle it was enacted it would also be the first time in 240 years that ANY of the natural rights protected from the federal government by the Bill of Rights has ever been revoked or modified in any Constitutional way. We can leave for another time discussion of the quasi-legal actions of Supreme Court opinions.
I would guess that the police or military don’t qualify as “good guys” to you? Just asking.
Tarzan will save us.
Also flying (much like driving) is a privilege not a right and guarantees nothing. Want to fly. Follow the rules. Want to drive follow the rules. Want a gun… Follow the second.
They own cars, hammers crowbars screwdrivers, rent a truck, house hold products around the house if you’ve had military training or chemist, Pharmaciist Many people in Israel have been killed by stones not pebbles. This is why theyre shot. So if bobble head at 1600 Pennsyvania Ave really does believe he’s making America safer he’s wrong but I’m cynical and don’t believe that to be his end game.
What if just one of the Orlando nightclub patrons had decided that they had the right protect their life wherever they happened to be.
If this man had shot the terrorist dead before he could start his rampage, what would the reaction of the MSM have been?
*crickets*
This one is easy. It would have went something like this:
“How could you have shot this poor innocent Muslem? And with that horrible firearm besides? Have you no shame? You should be lined up against a wall and shot! But first, we need to ban whatever type of firearm you shot him with, and eveything that looks like it. Because guns! Do it for the children….”
Mohammedan.
The term was good enough for Washington and Jefferson, it should be good enough for us.
We have designated drivers, why not designated defenders? You go to a bar/club/restaurant with your friends/family and you’re the DD. You keep your wits about you and the establishment keeps you well plied with all of the pop/tea/coffee/appetizers you care for. Win/win. Multiple sober defenders, a well hardened target and many safe and happy patrons.
We have that, the police. They are just too few in number and apparently sometimes inept. Unless “designated defenders” are guaranteed protections similar to the police and military if a DGU occurred, it’s simply not worth the probable litigation and out of pocket expense that can occur.
Being armed is an individual right. If you want to party, then you disarm and rely on the police. If you want to be responsible and carry, then you do so, you just abstain from activities that impair judgement.
What if you are armed and an active shooter attacks and you are with your family? If you have a chance to escape, you do so. Later, you could be blamed for not “responding” or saving the day if you are somehow designated a DD…
Simple enough.
I think you are reading far more into the term designated defender than the op or most people seem to mean.
I take it as a colloquial term simple stating ‘non-drinker.’
There is simply no rational reason for no bar carry for non-drinkers.
Police have no obligation to defend anyone. Courts have determined this at multiple levels including the Supreme Court.
The police are law enforcement, period, nothing more. If something is happening it’s up to you to get yourself out of it.
They said “unauthorized personnel”, that means they don’t have an issue with authorized personnel, for example an armed teacher or security officer. Anyways why wouldn’t you want armed security clearing people in a busy venue of a 100+ if you owned a club and didn’t want to get sued. I mean the author even said it would be clumsy to take a rifle into a club, so its not like it would get snuck in. Say what you want about rent a cops but one armed one at the door would have stopped this.
“Say what you want about rent a cops but one armed one at the door would have stopped this.”
By “this,” are you talking about Orlando?
If so, there was an armed off duty cop at the door who reportedly did exchange gun fire with the attacker.
It has been reported that he ran away, but I don’t know if that has been confirmed.
Point is, one armed rent-a-cop at the door may stop an attacker, but is no panacea. Didn’t work in Orlando.
All the more reason for each individual to recognize and accept personal responsibility for his/her own safety and protection.
The problem with armed security at the door is that any attacker, especially if they have cased the joint beforehand, which Mateen obviously had, knows exactly where that armed person is and the best way to remove the threat. Secondly, there is almost never any cover provided for the armed security at the door so they are sitting ducks with little or no time to react to a threat that appears only a few feet away ready to strike.
Solution 1.: Provide cover for the guards, preferably clear Lexan, to protect them from immediate harm while they react.
Solution 2.: Allow “Designated Defenders” to mix with the crowd and provide secondary deterrence that cannot be easily identified or quantified. They may or may not be 100% effective in stopping a determined shooter, but it should be obvious that they have a high probability of mitigating the damage and if a shooter knows they might be present but not recognized until they return fire it is very probable that the shooter will seek a less defended target to start with.
cover is nice, but closing a door before a shooter gets in is way simpler.
The difference between a cop and a rent a cop is a cop legally isn’t required to save you, where most rent a cops have their name and reputation on the line.
The meme fails for a completely different reason…. the TSA is a horrible violation of our 4th and 5th Amendment Rights. I have to prove my innocence before I am allowed to fly. I have to risk perjuring myself by getting into their little x-ray boxes just so I can do something that is perfectly legal to do.
Comparing the potential restriction of rights to a different set of restrictions on our rights is still a restriction of our rights. The fact that the TSA implemented the insanely stupid 3-1-1 rules doesn’t mean it is a good thing and it certainly should be the basis for comparison for anything else.
You are correct about the violation of our rights. The government needs to be out of the TSA business and the free market should determine which airline people want to fly on/with/
Airplane security should be a marketing tool. People who want extra security should be able to choose airlines that provide it, and to pay extra for that privilege. But there should also be another airline that advertises: “Bring your guns!” Like my local gun shop that has a sign: Guns are welcome here. Please keep them holstered or cased unless they are needed.
And another airline should be able to advertise that there is no restriction to smoking on certain flights.
The free market would decide whether or not customers accept or reject these options.
not too crazy over the idea of guns in bars. adequate armed security, yes. that said, way back late 70’s I was helping a band set up in a little bar outside San Antonio. First and only time i saw a gun check room. wonder if that would work in todays times
The author of this meme misunderstands the dynamics of the 9/11 attacks completely. It was never that box cutters were some kind of doomsday weapon system, it was that prevailing wisdom at the time was to cooperate with hijackers and not fight back. Once people started fighting back, the tactic became ineffective.
In case you missed that, the central lesson of 9/11 was fight back. The big production of pre-flight screening is almost entirely theater.
9/11 awoke all airline passengers. If there is a terrorist trying to hijack the airplane one is currently traveling in, then every airline passenger now knows that in order to survive, one must confront and neutralize said terrorist. It would be great if that principal could be grasped by the American public. Being armed greatly increases ones chances at successfully neutralizing a terrorist with ill intentions. whether it be on an airline, in a school, or in a gay night club.
The main reason this meme fails is that the bans on box cutters and 3 ounce bottles of liquid really have no connection with preventing another 911 type terrorist incident. The only thing that made the difference was locking the cockpit doors. Something that requires ZERO TSA staff. The rest is just security theatre and a federal jobs program for the incompetent.
Considering that the main reason for the 2A is to give citezens the tools they need to confront a tyranical government I think that some degree of parity between the arms deployed by governments (Feds, State and Local) and those available to Joe Citizen must be maintained. Not only our RTKBA but also our ability to own weapons like modern semi-automaric/large capacity sporting rifles and pistols.
U.S. Military cemeteries around the world are festooned with little white Crosses and Star of David monuments each, and jointly, proclaiming to the world how much we are willing to sacrifice to defeat communism (liberalism and progressivism in later stages). Yet, here we are, on the brink of a U.S. Presidential election, and the evil (D) have put up two major candidates that can’t seem to out-communist each other, and have no response to a sitting prez who’s made more friends with our sworn enemies than even the American (true) citizenry.
FU EVIL BLUE (D). You are more deleterious than “worthless” and are permanently broken. I would not take sides with you in an alien invasion, so pray nighlty (to my GOD) that we are alone in the Universe.
We banned box cutters because they were used in 9/11.
We then also banned liquids over three ounces.
I thought the punchline was that no one has a fucking clue why we did the second and that it has nothing to do with 9/11.