“A cell phone video, pulled off of Ismaaiyl Brinsley’s Facebook page prior to it being deactivated, showed an interaction between law enforcement and Brinsley taken a little over a year ago,” thefreethoughtproject.com reports. “In the video an officer claims the dog signaled for drugs on Brinsley’s bag. But there was nothing remarkable that could be pinpointed as the dog even signaling. After the officer claimed the dog signaled, Brinsley refused to let him search his bag.” And then . . .
The as-yet-unnamed officer told Brinsley to stop filming, claiming he had no right to do so during a police investigation.
Be that as maybe, we now know that Brinsley had a long criminal record. This interaction – one of many with the police and the justice system – may not have set him off, but it may have set him up. Don’t get me wrong: there’s no excuse for murder. But there can be an explanation. Or several. Just sayin’ . . . [h/t JM]
A gang banger was harassed by police once. In other news, water is moist.
Or more accurately, a black man was harassed by a cop who exceeded his authority (by claiming the non-indicating dog indicated, and by claiming the guy couldn’t record the interaction).
1) I don’t know if his being black had anything to do with it. So I think it is irrelevant, BUT what is relevant is that the cop sent the dog twice indicating that he was being targeted.
2) Since the cop makes such a big deal that HE was dog trained and that HE read the dogs signal that there were drugs in the bags speaks volumes of this cops lying either about his skill at reading the dogs signal or that the dog’s supposed signal was incorrect.
Which goes to show that a supposed dog’s signal should not be deemed as probable cause that he was carrying drugs.
3) Don’t touch my camera. I’ll film it wherever I chose. If you don’t want me to film during your investigation, then don’t do the investigation.
4) What was the probable cause that the cops were on the bus in the first place?
I, in now way condone this mans shooting the police officers, but I think I understand why.
The cops should definitely stop profiling and investigating violent criminals.
We are and have been living in a police state for a long time. The evidence is everywhere from the police having tanks, to tactical teams serving search warrants to our level of incarceration continued growth (and dwarfs any other country on the planet), despite a decades long decline in crime.
It’s not the police fault it’s ours.
We have got it all wrong. Our justice system does nothing to prevent crime, they just round up the people. What prevents crime is actual investment in people.
Nope. It is fully constitutional to search a persons papers, person and effects with the testimony of a witness and the judge writing up up a warrant designating what they are looking for.
See, all the dog has to do is get on the stand under oath and speak of what he/she smelled on the suspect.
Oh, gee. The dog can’t testify and no judge actually wrote a warrant.
But that is why the fallible human being in the black bed sheet interprets the constitution. It is beyond the capabilities of us other fallible human beings to understand the esoteric and obscure meaning of such a clearly written right.
For those still unable to pick up my sarcasm, because there truly are people who accept the preposterous idea that judges are the rightful final arbiter of all that is constitutional, I was being sarcastic.
In this instance it was a black man, however, this type of behavior in police affects all citizens, and we have seen plenty of videos of citizens, not black that are detained that have their rights violated. Good cops and police work has to be recognized and rewarded, and the bad cops, bad training and polices have to be recognized and changed. A big step forward would be lifting the clamp on transparency that happening, and getting the media to be honest and factual about what is going on rather than participate in inciting violence.
Police can, and do act professional and deserve recognition for that. However when policies or individual behavior causes officers to behave unprofessionally or use “ruses” to do searches or detain people, it erodes respect for all law enforcement and honestly for the law. These behaviors go right up to the top and are “management” issues.
Well, it is Monday.
I know, why do the cops always make these constitutional questionable moves on Monday? Must be A shift. You can’t trust A shift.
So you know how there were a couple TTAG stories or stories on other intelligencia type sites on how there are checkpoints over a hundred miles from borders but they call them a border crossing check points. They are supposedly for gun and drug trafficking here in the southwest. They use dogs at these checkpoints.
I hear that whole dog signaling thing can be trained into the dog if someone looks suspicious without anything illegal present. They give the dog some kind of command to signal and then demand to search. I wonder if this is common and if happens with city police dogs too.
I’ve never heard that they do that, but it would be easy to teach a dog to do that when Willie Nelson’s bus rolls up to the checkpoint. I don’t think they sniff for guns, because when we go through those checkpoints we always have lots of guns in the truck.
When we have our dogs with us they go completely apesh!t when they see the working dog. The agents have to yell the one question(are you US citizens?) over the insane barking, and then send us on our way.
I’ve read the same thing. Remember that poor SOB in New Mexico who was given a forced enema and colonoscopy because the police were positive he had drugs in his arse? That was a K9 false positive, or possibly a K9 that was cued. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has ruled it is constitutional to initiate a search after a K9 signals, so long as the PD claims the dog is trained.
Hey, this was a year ago? What was the disposition of the case? IOW, were drugs found in the bag? If so, since it was after the camera was turned off, did the cop put them there? I cannot understand why honest cops do not DEMAND that every encounter be filmed. Illegally demanding that a camera be turned off makes you look real guilty, to me. Whatever your chosen victim alleges, I now believe until you prove it’s a lie. Otherwise, why did you not allow the filming? You don’t even have that authority, and if you don’t know that, you should be fired. If you do know that, and do it anyway because you have the gun, you will do what you like, you should be fired and arrested.
Farago, do you really hate police this much? I know without a doubt what a bonafide 5-O hater you are, but I didn’t think it was this bad. Only you, I guess would post this worthless story about a dead POS, claiming it as a possible “explanation” for the cold blooded assassination of these NYPD heroes. You are sick in the brain.
Getting murdered doesn’t make these cops heroes, it makes them victims.
The word explanation means it helps explain why the guy hated cops so much. It does not mean the guy was justified in committing two murders.
Out of contexts, this is a prime example of abuse of power and harassment.
JasonM, I can only imagine what you do for a living (FLAME DELETED). I’m sure it is not wearing a uniform, with a target on your front and back, with a gun and badge. You wouldn’t know a hero if he or she slapped you in the face. They are heroes because of how they lived and what they did for a living and what they stood for. Have you ever been in a real hood by yourself or with one other brother, looking for bad dudes, knowing many there hate you? I doubt it. Another internet tough guy.
@DK, agreed.
FLAME DELETED –
No flaming the website, its authors or fellow commentators. Persistent violators will be banned.
If you serve in law enforcement, you’re a volunteer. You signed up for that. it’s not like all of a sudden you realized the PD was going to send you into the hood where you would not win any popularity contests. I’m pretty sure they also cover that in detail at the academy. So you had a chance to quit during training. Then after training you had another chance to quit. Heck, you can quit at any time if you feel like the risks are too great, can’t be managed, or you just plain want to do something else (like pursue the career in food service that seems to be beneath you for some reason). Don’t volunteer to do a job, then complain about the job. You just come off as a p…..
Guys who want medals (or think they deserve them for doing a job they VOLUNTEERED FOR) get other guys killed.
Police are not heroes for doing their job. No one is.
I haven’t been into a Taco Bell or McDonalds in a long time, but I’m pretty sure they wear uniforms.
But no, I’m a well-educated professional, who doesn’t wear a uniform or name tag.
They are heroes because of how they lived and what they did for a living and what they stood for.
Do you know how they lived? Or what they stood for? They could have been on the take from the mob, or the types of cops that exceed their authority, like the guy in the video. Or they could have been fine upstanding men who made sacrifices to improve their community. I don’t know their records, and I doubt you do either.
Being a hero requires specific heroic action. Throwing the word around the way you are dilutes the meaning, like the “every child is special” crowd does.
It’s been over three years since an NYPD cop got murdered on the job. It’s apparently not that dangerous of a job.
In fact, discounting for traffic accidents (cops spend a lot of time driving, apparently), being an American cop is about as safe as working in an American office.
FLAME DELETED. COMMENTATOR BANNED.
So, they are heroes because they lived off the tax payers?
@Chris Mallory, well now, that is a right dickish comment, right out of the shoe size IQ box.
So, David K, do you believe earning your living with a gun and a badge entitles you to break any laws you wish, without anyone even daring to question you? Because that is what your post sounds like, you are above the law you supposedly enforce on other, lesser humans. Which is what the protests are currently alleging. Until your post, I was pretty sure they were wrong/lying, you’re working on changing my mind.
The only internet tough guy I see is you.
How did they live that made them a hero? What did they stand for? Nice assertion with no details.
Accepting the “job” of police officer does not make you a hero. Dying on the force does not make you a hero. A police officer’s job is actually very safe comparably to a construction worker, or many other jobs. Why is a cop a hero because he died a cop and a construction worker not?
David, do you really defend bad behavior this much? We all know beyond a shadow of a doubt just how much of a boot-licker you are, and we also know that you don’t like us ever questioning the obvious and overt over-stepping of statutory authority of your chosen masters. Only you would use this opportunity to lambast someone for asking perfectly pertinent questions and making salient points, and holding up victims of violence brought about predominantly by the failed “Wars” on Drugs, Poverty, and Crime, to further your sickening agenda of silencing dissent by literally nothing more than guilt-tripping people who have demonstrated far better knowledge of the situation that you and your ilk ever could or ever will.
Go troll somewhere else. Please and thank you.
You’re done here.
Calling out bad cops and advocating for accountability of the armed agents of the state does not equate to “police hate”. Get some critical thinking.
Grindstone, Farago has plenty of legitimate criticism of the police, specifically hyper militarization. This doesn’t mean that he doesn’t hate the police, which he clearly does. I don’t know the man, but I’ve seen enough of his writing to know that his criticism goes far beyond legitimacy and is full blown hate. You and many others here can’t see the forest for the trees. Just because you and I, and many others, agree with Farago 100% when it comes to our natural and constitutionally protected 2A/RTKBA, doesn’t mean he is infallible. He is a police hater, for reasons only he knows, and I will call him such.
Do you have any evidence of this excessive criticism?
I’ll agree that RF seems to have a slight obsession with pointing out bad cops, because this site is supposed to be about guns, not the misdeeds of cops, and the misdeeds of cops seem to show up frequently. However, I see no evidence that his criticism is excessive. The cop in this video clearly overstepped his bounds. In a just world, he’d be punished. In this world, he won’t even get the “punishment” of a month’s paid administrative leave.
And I think his theory in the article has merit: many small bad experiences with cops can make a person dislike, ore even hate, the cops. And they can make a deranged, violent criminal want to target cops.
He isn’t infallible. Nobody has said that. You are flailing in every comment and it is weak.
Also, someone working at Taco Bell is certainly not more likely to dash onto my property with guns drawn for absolutely no reason other than to harass me then proceed to muzzle sweep me and my family with fingers on the triggers. A normal citizen will have to first commit this offense a single time to me to catch up to the wonderful law enforcement you so cherish. I also consider myself lucky at this point since I did not lose a family member or a dog from the encounter. Nobody should come away from that encounter feeling lucky, it should never happen. No apologies. Just big smiles of contentment as they left. It isn’t my only unacceptable encounter with cops but it is the worst one.
You see, these cop haters that you despise had a starting point and contrary to popular belief many of these people started off like me. That is, not committing a crime but having myself and loved ones put in danger and treated abusively for no reason by these “servants” that appeared to be quite proud of themselves for doing it. This tends to help open their eyes and see how widespread the problem has become with corrupt cops as well as those poorly trained and managed.
“… but having myself and loved ones put in danger and treated abusively for no reason by these “servants” that appeared to be quite proud of themselves for doing it.”
@J. Zoss.
Yes, that, right there. That said, those who are still asleep will always counter with “well, you must have been doing something wrong” or simply give these servant a bye since LE have such a dangerous job, a little bit of uncalled for terror is excusable.
No, it isn’t.
“I don’t know the man, but I’ve seen enough of his writing to know that his criticism goes far beyond legitimacy and is full blown hate”
Post some examples then.
Well, we’ll call you “Right’s Hater” because you didn’t want to address the rights being denied in the video and instead wanted to go into defensive mode because someone may have pointed the finger at a corrupt cop. Nice, “Right’s Hater.”
Wow!!! Does anyone realize there are over 700,000 police officers in the US who belong to thousands of different departments with hundreds of different laws and policies. Just because there are a few bad LEOs does not mean everyone in that profession is bad. Just because a few departments have policies or cultures or laws that reek of oppression, it does not mean all do. Most people that frequent TTAG could qualify to be a Reserve Officer in most departments, so get involved. If there is corruption, be a witness; otherwise, it is free training and a chance to see what happens behind the scenes.
I was a reserve police officer. FYI. And will be again soon.
Good for you RF. You can be a critical voice from the community working to get things right. Sorry for the flames in some comments.
David K-Kinda liberal of you or is that you are a cop with political aspirations, where you believe it is alright to assail a man’s character and then just show your weakness by apologizing like it is nothing. Accountability not your strong suit officer. Cop hating is usually a learned experience after encountering a cop like the one above and probably yourself by your previous emotion based comments.
Officer you are the bully cop, who thinks your badge gives you divine stewardship over we Liberty minded folks. Americans who believe in the Rule of Law have come to view servants like you as state sanctioned killers. Granted you would not be able to bully me as I’m educated in the law, which I know says you have the right to armed self-defense from all criminals meaning you harm, especially the armed criminals under guise of their elitist-granted authority. Excessive abuse of force and disregard for my rights would cross the line from Public servant, (who I would respect and protect if deserved) and enter the threshold of armed criminal, who is an imminent threat to my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. We ask respect from cops and truly want them to protect and serve We the People, instead of being lap dogs and revenue extractors for the traitors in legislature. Cops are not granted Hero status for putting on a costume, and heroism is earned through acts of bravery and self sacrifice, not from getting a paycheck to only make sure you go home.
‘JasonMfromSoDakota’ summed up my thoughts on the issue very nicely.
Farago you spelled it wrong. You put “officer” it is spelled H-E-R-O. This is what I gathered from reading the other post. Either way, thanks.
And now that Farago is on his side of the blue line?? Everything is right and peachy. Hilarious. What happened to “cop hater?”
What happened to this statement: “Farago, do you really hate police this much? I know without a doubt what a bonafide 5-O hater you are, but I didn’t think it was this bad.”
Lets not address the video or the topics or the violation of rights. Lets assign people positions based on how they feel towards cops. Totally ridiculous.
What an adorably naive bit of propaganda.
The blue wall is the blue wall, everywhere. Every dept, every platoon, every squad. If you are seriously suggesting some reserve copper is going to have an influence on the guys who are there every day for pay, you are on some serious hallucinogens. Reservists have two paths, follow the herd exactly, or GTFO. The second you rock that boat, you’ll be on your way to being thrown under the bus for something.
This is the culture and the training of every dept in the US, and has been for 20+ years. They aren’t all Rampart, or Miami-Dade, or NYPD depth of corruption, but if there’s a clean dept in this country, I’ve never heard of it. And neither has anyone else. It’s the training and the culture it breeds.
Great point Bob, But I just wonder, How many Millions of citizens are policed by those police officers, coming from all walks of life, and coming from areas with different laws.
And sure, there are a few bad ones( citizens ), compared to the Millions of otherwise law abiding citizens, But should police treat every engagement with the public with the same contemptuous treatment ?…. It seems to me that the view of police and the view of the citizens they are policing run parallel…I hear the same argument, that for the most part cops are good, and there are a few bad apples, but that same logic should apply to citizens .. How many Life threatening, life taking, encounters are police involved in, compared to the MILLIONS of people they police? Not many….. How many citizens are treated as violent, hardened, armed criminals when they have encounters with Police?…. Most…
I have, for one, most recently a couple years back when I was stopped for a vehicle inspection sticker 2 weeks expired, and announced (as required by law) that I held a CHL and was armed. Treated like an escaped mass murderer on his way to his next target, by a cop in a tiny burg of around 5000 people. You can find these guys anywhere. BUT! I must add that in my 68 years such encounters were few and far between, most cops were at minimum professional, at best friendly, like a neighbor.
Funny statement. Farago offers an “explanation” for the shooter’s actions due to the shooter experiencing questionable tactics and unlawful suppression of the individual’s rights prior to the shooting and suddenly… cop hater. Why didn’t you address the statements made by Farago and those events that occurred in the video?
It is clearly evident there is a problem when Farago shows you this kind of activity and instead of addressing it, you dodge the central points and start calling people cop haters. You sir, are part of the problem.
That video shows the NYPD ordering him to stop filming. That was an open and shut first amendment violation and was also an example of strongarm robbery on the cop’s part, of the video that would have been taken.
That doesn’t justify the recent murders. At all. But if the NYPD continues to commit violent street crime and Getty away with it, proving that there is no justice in court, some percentage of their victims will claim a twisted form of “justice” on the streets. No two ways about it.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/03/07/fall-river-man-arrested-for-videotaping-police-officer/
What violent street crime? Again, I doubt you know what real violent street crime is, just like JasonM. Are you referring to tackling Eric Garner in a headlock, not a choke hold? The cops handled the encounter wrong, IMHO, and I say this with 20/20 hindsight. Too many cops, too much show of force for such a petty offense. But should we order cops not to enforce petty crimes / quality of life offenses? That is a question that our society must decide.
What violent street crime? Again, I doubt you know what real violent street crime is, just like JasonM.
Apparently I earned the David K Whipping Boy prize. I must be making logical arguments, to get a statist that riled up!
How about when an NYPD officer empties a magazine on a guy, reloads, and empties another one? Or when an NYPD officer shoves a broken broom handle up a guy’s butt? Almost every major American city’s police force has a lengthy list of such offenses. Here in Seattle, an SPD officer murdered a man for walking down the sidewalk whittling. NYPD, being the largest police force in the US, in one of the most repressive and corrupt cities, seems to have the worst offenders.
Are you referring to tackling Eric Garner in a headlock, not a choke hold?
No, he’s probably thinking about the chokehold. Incidentally a headlock involves controlling the head, without cutting off circulation or respiration. A chokehold involves cutting off circulation or respiration…like that cop did with his forearm on Eric Garner’s neck.
The cops handled the encounter wrong, IMHO, and I say this with 20/20 hindsight.
Ya think? Arresting a guy for being uppity, and then, when the victim dies, claiming he was committing a non-crime and “resisting arrest” is wrong? If only there was some sort of system that could punish people when they do things that are wrong…
Too many cops, too much show of force for such a petty offense. But should we order cops not to enforce petty crimes / quality of life offenses?
Uhh…yeah. Incidentally, the witnesses say he wasn’t selling anything. He apparently broke up a fight, and the cops didn’t like his attitude.
That is a question that our society must decide.
I’m pretty sure we already did. The cops and politicians just haven’t figured it out yet.
JasonM, I’m no statist pal. Just as you are not an anarchist just because you hate the police. You, and Farago, can be extremely critical of bad behavior and illegal tactics of some police without hating police or paintng all of them with your broad brush. Why is that so hard to understand? Acknowledging your police hatred is the first step to progressing beyond it (I threw the progressing part in just because you live in that freedom loving city of Seattle).
JasonM, I’m no statist pal.
You work for the state, preserving it. Waddling…quacking…a duck!
Just as you are not an anarchist just because you hate the police. You, and Farago, can be extremely critical of bad behavior and illegal tactics of some police without hating police or paintng all of them with your broad brush.
Ah…but we’re not painting all cops with a broad brush due to the behaviors of a few. We’re (or at least I’m) going after the institution. The institution of a mercenary police force is the root cause.
Why is that so hard to understand?
Because it’s an accusation based on a false premise.
Acknowledging your police hatred is the first step to progressing beyond it (I threw the progressing part in just because you live in that freedom loving city of Seattle).
I moved beyond it long ago. I realized that bad cops weren’t a failure of the system. The system is inherently corrupt. The cops who try to do the right thing and get forced out are the failure of the system, because the system is designed to protect and serve the corrupt power elite.
And I don’t live in Seattle. I haven’t for quite some time (parking is too expensive). When I said “here in Seattle” earlier, I was at work…in Seattle. I live in Bellevue, one of the best armed cities on Earth.
@JasonM
Bellevue dweller here too. Not sure about the best armed city :). I would love to be true. I know I do my part :).
However looking on how we voted for I-594, I doubt that.
David, the general dislike comes from all cops PROTECTING those wrongdoers. Discovering something like, oh, I don’t know, the officer on that video was fired and prosecuted for violating someone’s civil rights, rather than treated as everyday normal, good job!, would go a long way toward improving relations, as well as weeding out bad actors. But it never happens.
And, BTW, in the midst of debating what happened to Garner, it might be illustrative to remember he died. For nothing. If everything the cops alleged is true, I cannot even imagine how humiliating it must be to be reduced to selling individual cigarettes trying to support yourself, without having a bunch of armed thugs attack you for it. Eventually, that kind of activity will piss off the subjects.
Honest question! What did garner do to warrant his arrest/detention? Ive googled and googled and can’t get a straight answer.
He wasn’t selling loosies at this point. I havnt heard he had a warrant against him. Was it really just because he had an attitude? Is that why they took him down? Is this one of those instances where they were going to arrest a guy and just charge him with the circular logic of “Resisting Arrest”?
I’m honestly asking these questions. I know that there is no way that someone can be put in a chokehold and not resist. In Marine swim qual we had to be trained to not instinctively panic when under water and restrained. If your best friend got you in a chokehold just playing, you will still resist. Its human nature.
I just… This whole situation makes me sick. The more I examine it, the more it seems like the NYPD did just murder a man for no reason, and the more cops just circle their wagons. I don’t consider myself anti police, but the fact that cops are defending this is making me rethink some of my positions on law enforcement.
Sambo82,
As far as I can gather, Garner simply broke up a fight and the police who arrived didn’t like his attitude. Police officers on scene then accused Garner of selling cigarettes and announced their intention to arrest Garner for that “offense”. Garner took exception and died for it.
The problem here is that police can accuse anyone of anything without any basis whatsoever … and many have no qualms promptly killing us if we fail to go quietly after a baseless accusation.
@Jason M, oh society did decide all right. It’s called a Grand Jury. And they cleared the officers. Your “society” is a mob, full of leftist bomb throwers and their useful idiots.
Gee, Grand Juries are known for indicting ham sandwiches, but they can never indict a cop. The self policing system does not self police.
@Indiana Tom, well if you really feel that way, get busy changing the system. No doubt you have a perfect system all set and ready to go.
We had a system in place called a Constitutional Republic, but then we got comfortable in our material goods and traded being governed by benevolent men for corrupt ones. The corrupt men figured out it is best to use men with low skills, who exhibit lack of critical and independent thinking, which is crossed with a bit of a God complex and no personal responsibility. These wanton personal characteristics are what provide the best employment pool of enforcer traitors(loyalists) to police the greater public, and these individuals justify their gross violations by saying “I was just doing my Job.”
@JasonMfromSoDakota, one word: Bullshat. Nothing preventing you from strapping on a badge and gun. Sadly, too many “good people” avoid jury duty the plague. Well, you get what you get then.
@Mac- I have no desire to have state granted power over any of my fellow Americans, since I would rather want my countrymen to respect me over fearing me. Respect establishes some amazing loyalty and it will get a person further to make friends not enemies in life, where as fear is what poisons the well. As a self reliant armed citizen when I carry my gun every innocent person around me is safe, especially if I have to fire as I am accountable to the state for every round I fire, which is a strange concept of law to you I know. I like yourself was going to go into a career where on some days I would be meeting people on the worst day of their lives, only difference is it wasn’t me causing it over arbitrary laws. Until I thought critically about what good could one good man do in the face of a corrupt and well established bureaucratic institution. This good man’s answer was to not become part of the problem by pretending to ignore the lack of accountability covered up through the ranks. I choose a higher path than to become what justice is meant to fight, which is a criminal, since being an accomplice to evil is still partaking in evil. No such thing as do a little evil to do a lot of good to a moral man, because being armed a person always has the free choice to say NO to being a willing participant or victim of evil. I used personal discretion by exercising my rights and duty as an American to provide safety to me and those around me by using a protected tool.
@JasonMfromSoDakota, yeah, everyone has an excuse. Got it.
@El Mac, I didn’t see any excuse. I saw an American that followed the subject to it’s logical conclusion, and realized he had a greater love for his fellow man than for authority.
@Rambeast, Oh. Oooook.
No. That is a question that the arresting officer must decide. The choice comes down to him – unless you assume he has no “choices.”
Everyone seems to be missing the target here. The question isn’t did the officer show too much force? Did Garner resist arrest? Should the officer be indicted? The real question is… why in the @!KD is it illegal to sell some loose cigarettes on the street? Can’t government and law enforcement just leave people alone? Sweet Jesus.
The interesting thing to me is the claim that the dog didn’t seem to trigger. Any decent dog handler can get his dog to “trigger” whether there is something there or not.
But as he said in the video, you didn’t take the canine training course, so you don’t know how to discern when the dog triggers.
Based on the dog’s behavior, I’m guessing the trigger is when the dog inhales through its nostrils.
“Based on the dog’s behavior, I’m guessing the trigger is when the dog inhales through its nostrils.”
^^ That’s some funny stuff right there. 😀
JasonM at 23:49, you don’t want a reply? That’s too bad, here’s one anyway. I’ve done several jobs in my life beneath TacoBell and McD’s. I’ve also worn a uniform, with and without a badge, with a gun. I’ve worked plain clothes also. I’m glad you’re a well educated professional. Education is the key to solving most of the problems we are talking about. I know enough about how they lived, they were police officers. That matters and that’s enough! Living a life where you go to work every day to protect and serve, not knowing if you’ll make it home, matters and is all I need to know. We’re not looking for medals or accolades, just a little respect now and then. There are plenty of bad cops, we come from the same society that some very bad well educated professionals come from (I’ve put many of these individuals in jail, so I know a little about that). You’re probably the type of guy who wants to argue the constitution with or hold court with a cop during a traffic stop (maybe, again I don’t know you or know if you have the balls to do this). I’m bored with you now.
JasonM at 23:49, you don’t want a reply?
When did I say that? Or do you somehow think I control the depth at which nested messages lose the “Reply” button? (Incidentally, it’s 4.) That’s why most of us just reply to the same parent message, and put @SomeGuy at the top of our messages.
I’m glad you’re a well educated professional.
Are you glad enough to chip in on my student loan payments?
Education is the key to solving most of the problems we are talking about.
If only you understood that the problem isn’t just the private sector criminals, but the public sector ones as well.
I know enough about how they lived, they were police officers. That matters and that’s enough!
That’s completely absurd. Being a police officer is not some inherently good thing. These guys were paid enforcers of the city that violates just about every gun right there is. The city where they stop and frisk people, without warrants or probable cause. The city where they arrest people for drinking 32oz. sodas.
By your logic: I know Hans Reiser was a software developer. Therefore he’s a hero. That matters and that’s enough. In case you’ve never heard of him, he’s a filesystem developer, convicted of murdering his wife.
Living a life where you go to work every day to protect and serve, not knowing if you’ll make it home, matters and is all I need to know.
Protect and serve? The only people I’ve ever needed protection from all had government badges. They protect the state and serve the state. And the greatest enemy of the people is the state. As Madison said, a standing army is the greatest threat to liberty. And a mercenary police force is effectively a standing army by Colonial definition.
As many people have pointed out on this thread, being a cop isn’t that dangerous, so the “not knowing if you’ll make it home” line is the kind of emotional tripe Shannon Watts peddles. If you want danger, go work on a farm, or in a mine, or in a factory. Those people are far more likely to get injured or killed on the job than a cop. And that’s including all the cops who get into traffic collisions. And what’s more, at the end of the day, they’ve made a positive contribution to society. They are far more heroic than a typical cop.
We’re not looking for medals or accolades, just a little respect now and then.
Then you should try earning respect by being respectful to others, rather than demanding it with the threat of violence.
There are plenty of bad cops, we come from the same society that some very bad well educated professionals come from (I’ve put many of these individuals in jail, so I know a little about that).
The difference is, when we kill people, we go to prison, not on paid vacation.
You’re probably the type of guy who wants to argue the constitution with or hold court with a cop during a traffic stop (maybe, again I don’t know you or know if you have the balls to do this).
I’m not sure how that’s relevant, but no, I don’t. Whenever interacting with a cop, I refuse to answer any questions or consent to any searches, I ask what he’s doing and why, and if he has justification (such as in a traffic stop), I provide identification. Then I pay a lawyer to deal with it.
I’m bored with you now.
It’s scary when somebody illuminates the holes in your carefully crafted worldview, isn’t it?
+1
JasonM, there you are! I knew with a little time you would truly come out and reveal yourself. Here’s JasonM: no, I don’t hate the police, I’m not painting with a broad brush, cops are part of a mercenary police force, an inherently corrupt system, I need to be protected from the people with badges who enforce the power of the statist corrupt elite power structure. I should have guessed that you were a computer nerd in your mom’s basement who plays call of duty all night. You are the typical P word who has never spent a second of his life defending anything. Answer this JasonM, what have you done in your life to change the injustices you rail against? What have you done in your life in the service of others? You are such a tough guy, would you say any of your hateful BS to the widows and orphans of these murdered NYPD officers, or any other murdered cop? No you wouldn’t, you are a chicken bleep, but I’m sure that you would be like the other mind numbed robots in the NYC protests, chanting “what do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Know!” Thank you very much for showing all of us here, your very carefully crafted worldview.
Sorry on the typo, it should be Now, not Know.
David K, Despite all the propaganda you’re trying to sling, there’s nothing inherently ‘heroic’ about being a cop. Even in the worst neighborhood, it’s statistically safer than being the guy who drives a delivery truck in that same hood. And of the few cops that die on the job – over half are killed in traffic accidents.
NYPD, CPD, LAPD. Or any other major metro police force is a gravy job, with gravy benes, not to mention the perks. You have to have connects to get one of those gigs, there’s no sacrifice.
All those pissy insults and anger and name calling doesn’t do much for your argument David, The uniform worship days are over, Now you can try to explain away the protestors, But the contempt Police have for the public, runs parallel for the contempt the Public is starting to form towards police….If every encounter a cop has with the public is viewed with suspicion, isnt it only logical to assume the public’s encounter with police is Just as suspicious?… I think The Hero mentality that has been sold to the public, by police isnt holding any longer for a couple of reasons. One of them is the persons experience when they do call..the tables are turned and the person calling for their assistance is now viewed with suspicion…. what message does that send to the public?… this also causes the public to find alternative ways of protection, arming themselves and being responsible for their own safety because police are failing at their job… There is a huge disconnect and anyone who cant see it has their head in the sand…
These recent Police killings simply arent gaining the support they once did…The public is showing as much concern and sympathy for dead cops and their families, as the police show for dead citizens and their families.
Both sides of this argument pay lip service to deadly encounters… Cops shrug off killings as acceptable losses to the public in favor of the bigger picture, and the public shrugs off killed cops as acceptable losses to cops for a job they signed up for. .. Both are contemptuous.
And ad hominem attacks are not helping your argument, nor are claims of universal “heroism”, try facts.
>Sigh…<
JasonM, there you are! I knew with a little time you would truly come out and reveal yourself.
I’ve never hidden my strongly libertarian viewpoints.
Here’s JasonM: no, I don’t hate the police, I’m not painting with a broad brush, cops are part of a mercenary police force, an inherently corrupt system, I need to be protected from the people with badges who enforce the power of the statist corrupt elite power structure.
The very wise men who founded this country knew that government was inherently corrupt. Not one of them had a positive thing to say about it. Washington described government thusly: Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
A mercenary force is a force of full time paid professionals, who follow orders almost blindly as opposed to a force of volunteers who come together for a specific goal, such as a posse.
Colonial era law enforcement was the latter, modern law enforcement is the former. The founders would be disgusted.
I should have guessed that you were a computer nerd in your mom’s basement who plays call of duty all night.
But you guessed fast food worker. Probably because you see that as a job for someone you can look down your nose at. A fast food worker engages in the voluntary exchange of labor for a fair market wage. And his labor is a voluntary interaction with customers where he provides them with a product or service they value as part of a voluntary transaction. There’s more honor in that than you could ever comprehend.
You are the typical P word who has never spent a second of his life defending anything.
Pony? Philatelist? There are lots of P words, you’ll have to be more specific.
I’m curious what you’ve defended. And lying under oath so you and your partner don’t get disciplined for excessive force doesn’t count.
Answer this JasonM, what have you done in your life to change the injustices you rail against?
Education. As long as large numbers of people have the warped social views that you do, people will suffer. The best way to improve that is education. And with the pro-gun shift in society, and the pro-libertarian shift in the Republican party, it looks like education is working.
What have you done in your life in the service of others?
I create software systems that make the voluntary exchange of goods, services, and ideas faster and more efficient. The computer revolution has done (and will continue to do) more to improve the quality of life of the average human than just about anything else in human history. And it’s done a great job of letting us know how widespread this systemic police corruption really is. Maybe that’s why you spew such venom against “computer nerds”.
What have you done in the service of others? And any interaction where the “others” only took part because you had a badge doesn’t count. You’d probably be shocked to find out that the vast majority of people you dealt with while wearing a badge didn’t value your “service” of issuing a $200 ticket for driving faster than an arbitrary limit. Many of us would rather have our forcefully collected tax dollars back and deal with security problems ourselves.
You are such a tough guy, would you say any of your hateful BS to the widows and orphans of these murdered NYPD officers, or any other murdered cop?
No, but then that’s because I haven’t said anything hateful or any BS. The BS would be that being a cop automatically makes a person a hero.
Any murdered human is a tragedy, even a cop.
I have no intention of going to NYC at the moment, and murdered cops are such a rarity in this country, where being a cop is a very safe job, so I guess we’ll never find out.
No you wouldn’t, you are a chicken bleep,
Man, you’re right. I do say lots of hateful BS…oh wait…you said that…and all the other insults.
but I’m sure that you would be like the other mind numbed robots in the NYC protests, chanting “what do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Know!”
Given that you’re so obviously wrong about so many things, it shouldn’t be surprising that you’re wrong about this. I have no desire to kill a single cop.
Curiously though, why would so many people have this attitude if cops “protect and serve” the public? You’d think they’d be grateful. I didn’t see protesters chanting for the death of software engineers or fast food workers as I drove in this morning.
Thank you very much for showing all of us here, your very carefully crafted worldview.
The phrase was more eloquent when I used it earlier, but they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so thanks.
“I know enough about how they lived, they were police officers. That matters and that’s enough! ”
No. Deeds and actions show how one lives. Even more so when one is in a position of authority where you MUST be held to a higher standard. You are the steward of citizen safety and custodian of the law. With that authority comes a terrible responsibility.
We are taught ‘respect the position, not the man’. This is a fallacy as there is no position without the man (or woman) filling its shoes. The position shall be judged by the actions of the man holding it.
Men and women that have chosen law enforcement as their career do not get an automatic bye because of the nature of the work. They must, instead, be scrutinized at a higher level of diligence to ensure they are acting in the best interests of those that they serve.
So… what does it look like when a drug dog ‘alerts’? Trick question, because different dogs are trained different ways (depending on the training school).
Most of the dogs I’ve seen sit in front of the spot they detect the odor
A dog that can be “triggered” in the absence if any drugs is not a drug dog. It is a show dog.
Any officer that that destroys the expensive training of a drug dog to make him a trick dog should not be allowed to ever be a dog handler again.
Every dog will react to please it’s handler. Verbal, non-verbal, the dog will read the cue and react as the handler wants. We have bred dogs for 25K years to be our companions, they read us far better than our primate ancestors.
Wait until you get to the herding dogs which have a super natural ability to read other animals and humans. I have a Sheltie cross and a Rough Collie cross. Amazing dogs.
They are very bright dogs. IIRC, that one that can do 1000 words and pick out 3D items from a picture is a Border Collie.
There should be a public procedure to get a police dog suspended and/or put to sleep if it signal one false positive too many. Useless and expensive is no way to go through life, Buddy.
Suspended? Maybe. Put to sleep? You’re sick.
Or they could just legalize weed and remove a lot of the drug/police interactions from the equation
Amen.
Funny you say that.. yrs ago cops were chasing some guy with weed thru a neighborhood with the K9, the dog got loose from his handler
and attacked a guy sleeping in his backyard in a hammock, injured and bleeding they cuffed up the innocent homeowner and carted him off to jail …the city denied any wrong doing, the police also denied any wrong doing.. 7 yrs later a judgment was awarded, and the city attorney was fired.. Dog, handler, and police all walked scott free… i’m sure to continue their mission statement to “protect and serve.”
Send the dog to the Ronald McDonald house.
“I don’t condone assassination of police, but…..” sounds a lot like “I support the Second Amendment, but….”
I don’t beat my children, but I understand why people do.
I don’t support murder of police, but it happens and we should perform root cause analyses.
I support the second Amendment, but acknowledge that guns can present problems as well as solutions.
I love and honour my mom, but we do not always agree.
“But” is sometimes called for.
> “But” is sometimes called for
Bingo!
So now the search in on to excuse Brinsley. I think it’s time for a new policing social contract. The police should refrain from enforcing the law in neighborhoods that “don’t want them there” and concentrate their efforts in places where they are welcome. But a social contract is two way street. All you cop haters should refuse police services. You get mugged, don’t report it. Your mother, wife, girlfriend gets raped, don’t report it. Home invasions can be handled on your own. You are going to have to report fatal encounters to the police but beyond that take the vow to be on your own.
Because there is nobody already doing that? Or at least close to your very specific rules which include one individual speaking for all family members regarding cops.
Yes, home invasions will be handled on my own. No amount of cops many minutes after a phone call will have any affect other than clean up. I thought this had been covered here enough. Now a phone call to police is suddenly good enough during a home invasion? MDA is calling…
I can see that you are pretty dense. You know if you live where I live your chances of ever needing the police are slim to none. Your only encounter will probably be a traffic stop. However, not everybody lives in an upper middle class neighborhood with no adjacent high crime areas or out in the country. I actually hoped there would be some thoughtful assessment about how you would handle your security knowing that you just can’t pull a gun a shoot the bastard every time you encounter a threat or that you would figure out that you too could run in to a Michael Brown or Eric Garner situation yourself. The armed citizen and the police are compliments not substitutes. What is meant when we say the police are there to protect civil order is that they minimize the overall risk of criminal behavior. That leaves you to deal with a few leakers who aren’t deterred. Just try imagining what you would do to protect yourself when no one is providing deterrence services and you have to deal with the entire criminal population.
The reality is much different..Police are not in deterrent mode, and havnt been for 30 years.. they are in proactive mode, I think this is one of the reasons why there are so many negative outcomes when the public has interaction with police.. Rolling the guy sleeping on a park bench because he might have a weapon sounds a little like provocation to me..
that’s called “living in chicago”. /snark. however, all you have to do is listen to the CPD scanner to see what the response times are, and that they too generally arrive after the fact. and as far as not calling the police, well, when response times are what they are here, and when crime ‘reclassification’ is rampant, and you live in a place where crime is REAL and the executive and legislative branch pass laws and behave in a way that forces you to be victimized by criminals, you get exactly what you think you would. Chicago.
@fugue: I don’t know if wacter intended to provide support, disagree or just a comment but I think his Chicago example is what the world looks like without sufficient police resources to provide good deterrence. You and your neighbors would have to provide those kinds of activities in lieu of the police. Then you would get to make the same kind of mistakes the cops get to make.
tdiinva,
Almost all problems with police would go away if the police adhered to these two simple tenants:
(1) Police only investigate serious crimes (defined below) and only arrest a suspect after witnesses testify before a judge and the judge issues a warrant based on witness testimony.
(2) Serious crimes are murder, rape, assault leading to serious injuries, and robbery involving items of significant value.
What I stated eliminates the vast majority of police abuse. No more cops claiming “he was selling cigarettes”, “the dog indicated contraband”, or “he had an ‘illegal’ firearm”. That is the way our Founders set up our nation. Sadly, our great great grandparents, great grandparents, grand parents, parents, and we ourselves allowed things to degrade to the present situation.
Sadly, we reject the moral and social order that our great great grandparents, great grandparents, grandparents, and if you are my age, parents thought to be right and good.
Compare Michael Brown or Trayvon Martin’s mother’s reaction to my Grandmother’s when her son came home with a bullet in him after a failed bank robbery attempt. It was “GTFO of my house” and not those “fill in the blank” cops hurting my poor child who was turning his life around.
The role of the police and government at large has increased because of the decline in civil society. It did not start as a police or government power grab. We have been living off the social capital of our ancestors and that capital is nearly exhausted.
@tdiinva, well said.
” I actually hoped there would be some thoughtful assessment about how you would handle your security knowing that you just can’t pull a gun a shoot the bastard every time you encounter a threat or that you would figure out that you too could run in to a Michael Brown or Eric Garner situation yourself.” The last part of this statement is what has made we law abiding Americans lose or social capital and are becoming massively disenfranchised with by being forced to be accomplices in pandering and promoting protected criminal segments of society and told their actions are civilized. The first part of your statement is exactly how armed citizens of a free nation deal with crime and provide crime deterrence as the criminal isn’t the only armed one and is risking their life for loot. Except we traded our social capital for redundant laws that turn armed defenders of crime into the suspects to be tried in the court of Mob appeal, which influences the political justice system. In a moral society when an innocent Shoots a thug, thug gets a slug, and then you give the criminals family a hug, and say my prayers are for the criminals redemption, instead of the state arresting you. In many areas the only difference between now and back in the Wild West is the sanitation systems and the pipe dream that we have become more civilized. So whats wrong with few highly skilled law enforcers instead of many who are not, along with wanted posters and bounty hunters unleashed upon criminals would clean up the ghettos good enough for the current inhabitants to try to stand up on their own against the corruption they have allowed and advance to enjoy life, shux, even white folks would move back.
“The armed citizen and the police are compliments not substitutes.” So why are the police the ones who willingly would follow orders to disarm others and break their oath to the constitution.
Well, Jason life is simple up there in sparsely populated South Dakota. You know your neighbors, who belongs, who is a troublemaker and mostly lily white to boot so yeah you don’t need much of police force. And if what you are saying that you believe that the penalty for petty theft is death then I suspect that back in the day you and you friends would have searched for the criminal and lynched or shot the first Indian you came across.
I happen to be a Christian so lynching innocent people because they are not of my tribe would be just as wrong as a Native scalping me for being Wasichu. Horse thieves used to be hung so yeah not much problem with taking out the guilty thieves but forced labor for petty theft.
You went after my character Fedcoat so please allow me to respond. How do you accept that you have willingly sold out your country for a steady paycheck and still think you are appreciated instead of loathed as a traitor? You are an accomplice and one day you will be judged for your wrongs against your fellow man in this life or the next.
I would automatically protect you in a bad situation where you would not return that favor, since it is your nature to be complicit to evil and a federal job requirement.
Ridiculous. If the kid that bags my groceries throws my eggs on the ground- should I just shut up and take it, since the only alternative is to raise my own chickens?
Citizens have as much (more?) right to expect the police to operate within the law as vice versa. Police are to enforce the law, not intimidate or control the population.
“If the kid that bags my groceries throws my eggs on the ground- should I just shut up and take it, since the only alternative is to raise my own chickens? ”
THIS RIGHT HERE!!
“You are going to have to report fatal encounters to the police ”
What makes you think so? As you’ve said (!), if I’m mugged, I’ll have to take care of it myself. If that turns out to be a fatal encounter, why should I report it to the police who are under no obligation to protect me?
Maybe in a controlled environment with a handler/trainer that is concerned with accuracy rather than getting the bust drug dogs perform well but once the leash is handed off to some chimp in a costume who’d just as soon let his K9 roast to death in the backseat as flashbang his own grandma all bets are off.
Drug dogs wrong more often than right: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/01/07/132738250/report-drug-sniffing-dogs-are-wrong-more-often-than-right
Well-trained dogs wrong 84% of the time: http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/27/how-even-a-well-trained-narcotics-detect
The dogs aren’t the problem, it is the handler. Drug dogs need to do daily maintenance training to keep their efficacy, but a lot of handlers treat their dogs like ARs: throw them in the back of the car and just pull them out when you think you need them. If you do that, you don’t have a K-9 anymore, you have a very expensive high-energy pet. A lot of the K-9 dogs I come across are actually quite poorly trained because their handlers either don’t know what they’re doing, or don’t care enough to keep up with the training. The result is obvious to anybody familiar with something like Schutzhund; the dog completely ignores the handler, and constantly walks around with a “oooo, what’s this!” body language. Just like any other piece of gear, if you don’t know how to use it properly, or refuse to train with it, you shouldn’t have it at all.
Regardless of training, dogs are dogs. They have been selectively bred for tens of thousands of years to be responsive to humans, and our facial expressions and nonverbal clues.
Even if it’s not deliberate (and it usually is), the dog ultimately lives to please it’s handler, nothing more. Dogs know what is is you want to see from them, and will act accordingly. If even subconsciously the handler wants an alert, the dog will deliver.
The point is a well-trained and skilled dog/handler team will do an excellent job under real-world conditions. But you are correct to an extent; if the handler consistently is cuing the dog to alert, the dog will alert. That happens over a period of time, with a trend of bad behavior on the handler’s part. But that should bear itself out when the team has an unusual number of false positives. If your false positive rate is 80%, the handler is doing something wrong. This is why you have many cases where a dog “isn’t performing” in a K-9 team, then another handler takes over and suddenly the dog is a star.
I think perhaps you’re looking at this through an ex-mil lens. In the real world, the dog is generally used as “probable cause” to toss someone’s car that the officer wants to toss. The cop knows very well that he wants an alert and he will get one. I’m not sure I count that as a false positive.
The way most metros deploy dogs, there’s very little chance of a false positive that would have any actual consequences for the cop or dept. Do a Terry on someone based on a bad alert? So what? They get to waste some time, get a Terry to put towards production numbers, and the citizen can’t do a damned thing about it.The only scenario I can see anyone giving a hoot about false alerts, is during a training exercise. Don’t want to look bad after dumping $20K into training the little furball.
I’m fine with depts having a few dogs, they can be actually useful in very narrow S&R, and fugitive recovery scenarios. Maybe even an explosives dog or two in a top 20 metro. As a tool used to harass citizens on this whole ridiculous war on drugs nonsense? Obscene. They cost a fortune to operate and the rationales put forward for having so many are highly dubious.
Question: Was it something on his person or was there baggage under the bus? It is not clear to me from the video what bag is being referred to. Certainly nothing in the video demonstrates what any reasonable person would call an indication, but it is possible it happened out of view of the camera. However, based on the interaction, my gut tells me BS. What dog handler leaves his dog with somebody else to go interact with a suspect? Normal procedure is for another officer to do the search. Also, no search dog I know of leaves a find unless it is dragged away or rewarded. That is how they are trained, specifically to remove ambiguity in their indication. I suspect this is a case of a good dog ruined by a crappy handler. Unfortunately it is all too common.
It’s sayin’ with no g, else it’s saying with no apostrophe.
Just sayin’.
How many of this guy’s other 19 offenses were due to lying government employees?
I know several handlers, military and police, and they agree that a handler can get a dog to “trigger” on a person, bag or vehicle that has no drugs or explosives on them. I have had dogs trigger on me quite a few times, then again I pretty much always have powder residue on my clothing/shoes.
All this video shows is Brinsley’s ongoing “problems” with police, and yea, his attitude caused a great deal of his problems.
In today’s WAPOST, Cohen described police as the new “white”. Draw your own conclusions.
and people wonder why the 1% is dragging down the 99%? we aren’t stupid. the abuse has got to stop.
It looks like the Courts have held that Citizens have a right to video record Police (Public Servants) in Public Places the same as Journalists or Reporters as long as the camera or recording device is in plain sight and the circumstances of the recording do not interfere with or delay the Police investigation.
We all know Dogs can be trained to respond to a “signal” from their handler, so that could be a factor here, but it is not clearly established. One might say that depending on the “Signal” to the Dog it might be nearly impossible to ever establish that kind of claim. It certainly is possible to “imagine” such a ruse, though.
The Police were wrong to attempt to stop the recording is clearly the conclusion.
I don’t think this was intended as “making excuses” for subsequent acts by a perpetrator, but establishing the possibility of a negative attitude towards Police on the part of the perpetrator by citing this video as evidence is valid. It does not demonstrate a “cause/effect” relationship to any subsequent acts the perpetrator committed.
Mr. Robert Farago,
Thank you for this wonderful forum to discuss in a civil manner issues we are interested in pertaining to gun owerahip in this country! All these discussions (and gun reviews) are excellent and a benefit to our society.
Happy Holidays…
To me, it didn’t look like the dog indicated anything and it looked like the dog searched him twice. That said i gave the cop the benefit of the doubt in that situation. He knows his dog, I don’t. But the real problem is that last bit. I had respect for him up until that point. A citizen has every right to record whatever he wants in a public place. For that reason, I afford this cop the lowest honor – the badge of zero respect.