After a spate of high profile arrests of unsuspecting out-of-towners about a year ago who somehow hadn’t gotten the word that the five boroughs aren’t particularly accommodating when it comes to Second Amendment rights, things seemed to settle down for a while. Bloomberg’s Army went back to their usual business of shooting bystanders, arresting home invasion victims and adding to their stock of heavy weaponry. Until, that is, boxer Robert Guerrero decided he deserved a birthday trip to Las Vegas after promoting an upcoming flight in the Big Apple . . .
So, he approached the Delta ticket counter to check in and declare the gat that was unloaded and packed in his luggage. Big mistake. The dutiful Delta agent — probably after charging him $25 for the checked bag — dropped a dime on the champ who was arrested on four weapons charges (the gun’s registered in California).
dailymail.co.uk reports:
He has been charged with criminal possession of a weapon and three counts stemming three high capacity unloaded magazines he was carrying at the time.
We’re sure he’ll want to send Governor Cuomo a thank-you note, too. Under the provisions of the new SAFE Act (that’s so dramatically reduced Empire State crime already) Guerrero’s facing felonies rather than misdemeanors.
‘If a passenger chooses to travel with a weapon, they should first acquaint themselves with the weapon laws of the jurisdiction that they are visiting and comply with any and all legal requirements,’ Queens DA Richard Brown told WNBC-TV.
Good advice. Or gun owners could just avoid New York altogether.
What a giant pile of reeking shit, I’m sure this will change his mind on ever doing a fight in New York ever again. (after they take his gun for now having felonies on record)
I dunno…. fighting in NYC might be too lucrative too pass on. After he gets out of prison, that is, sans his Second Amendment rights.
Is enough NEVER enough? Another one bites the dust to the for-profit prison system. THE FREE MARKET WORKS!!!
HORSESH*T, it does!!
Where do you get the idea we have had a free market in anyone here’s lifetime? Where do you get the idea the prison – industrial complex represents a free market? Insanity.
+1
I feel safer already, thanks to Governor Mussolini and his
ownermentor, Mayor Napoleon.aka Lil Nappy, his hip-hop moniker.
A man traveling with his handgun to New York is about as welcomed as a woman wearing a bikini in Tehran. At this point, everyone should know better. There are just certain places in this world where liberty doesn’t apply.
“There are just certain places in this world where liberty doesn’t apply.”
As has been said on this site before, there are slave States and free States.
Given the state of NYC during the Civil War, I would have to go ahead and say this place never left, it just stopped admitting it a few decades back. Them Tammany folk know when to shut up about something to keep the reins.
There are certain places in the world that will never see a penny of mine.
New York is one – I wont even buy online from businesses there & all my transatlantic flights use Atlanta.
Would this not be protected under the Safe Passage Provision of FOPA? I mean, if you have a layover in Chicago on your way between two free states (e.g., VA and TX) you don’t get arrested for not having a FOID. The Guns’ registered in CA, legal, and being transported, essentially, to NV, through the airport in NY. I presume they would have to prove he had it outside the airport, during his stay in New York. This is actually a really interesting case, a travesty of justice that does nothing to make the kids safer, but an interesting case nonetheless.
New York seems to not give two steaming craps about FOPA. They don’t have to prove he had it outside the airport; the inference is enough, and he’s not allowed to have it inside the airport. As far as your Chicago example, it’s true as long as the checked baggage is out of your possession, even in New York or New Jersey. But if you had an unexpected extended layover, and they put you up in a hotel and released your baggage to you in the interim (which the airlines often do), you could find yourself in a world of shit, because now you are illegally in possession. I’ve heard of some people in those cases making arrangements with the airline to store their baggage at the airport, so it never leaves the airline’s possession, but that’s a hassle, and what if they say no. My solution would be to never make an airline connection in a Civilian Disarmament state, but that may not be possible for some.
I was thinking about this also. But the only time I’ve ever transported a firearm in locked luggage was through gun-friendly states: Virginia, Missouri, Kansas, maybe Kentucky. Oh, and Texas. But I had to board at BWI once with the gun-in-locked-luggage bit, and was cured from that forever. They treated me like an effing terrorist – and this was BEFORE 911. But eventually they calmed down, but not after calling over a huge security guy who looked like he was going to pepper-spray me.
I’m not sure how effective pepper spray would be on me. I’ve eaten fresh Habañeros, and coughed up mucus for five minutes. But in the eyes, I think that’s a different story.
Eating fresh Habaneros is pretty badass. I’ve developed quite a resistance to pepper spray, despite my European-American heritage, so there’s a good chance pepper spray wouldn’t take you out of the fight.
You should try some of my Scotch Bonnets or Marugas
William, I worked in a prison here in Iowa, let me tell you, pepper spray is an “OH SHIT” moment. You can’t open your eyes and breathing is tough. They now use a foaming pepper spray. Try wiping that off.
Piece of advice, don’t use foam pepper spray. Foam pepper spray, while it will make an attacker have a bad day, can be easily wiped into a hand and thrown back at you. Liquid pepper spray is pretty much just as effective, and can’t be used against you in a retaliatory manner.
The interstate transportation exemption is limited, and it is very easy to fall outside of its protection.
The law says you can transport a firearm from a place where it is legal to another place where it is legal if “during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle” (note: “vehicle” can be anything, car, bus, plane, whatever)
This protects you if you drive through a restricted jurisdiction, like NYC. It also protects you when you have a layover, as in your example, because either (1) you are on a direct flight and your firearm stays in the baggage area of the plane, or (2) you have to change flights, in which case the airline moves your gun from plane to plane, and it is never in your possession.
Where you get screwed is if you ever has access to the locked gun case, like when your connecting flight is cancelled and the airport returns your bag.
People can also screw themselves by walking from their car to the airline check-in desk in an unfriendly jurisdiction. For example, let’s say you live on Long Island, and you want to fly to Texas for some dove hunting. You can possess a shotgun without a licence in NY State but not NYC City. If you wanted to travel with your shotgun to Texas, you could drive through NYC and be protected. You could fly out of Islip airport (on Long Island), change flights at JFK airport, and still be protected. But if you drove straight to JFK and flew out of that airport, then your screwed. During the walk from your car to the ticket counter, you had access to your gun and lost your interstate travel protection.
Moral of the story: be very careful relying on the interstate transportation exemption when traveling through unfriendly states.
Good job, Armchair. FOPA is a trap for the unwary.
I also wonder how FOPA gets interpreted when the firearm (“assault weapon”) and/or accessories (“high-capacity” magazines) are banned in the jurisdiction one is traversing.
The statute covers “firearms.” A magazine is not a firearm. Based on the text, ammo would not covered either, so no JHP in New Jersey. Also, the definition of firearm under federal law does not include an antique firearm, so they’re probably not covered either.
If you have to travel through the Northeast, the safest bet might be to just ship everything to yourself.
What a crock…!
I was curious if you knew for a fact that the Delta agent called, since it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve seen assumptions like that here, and you didn’t provide any direct sourcing for the original story (although a little Google-fu found it here). But even that story didn’t say specifically that it was the Delta agent who called, so it still falls under the category of an unsourced allegation, at that point.
However, I did find this line in a Yahoo Sports article about the arrest: “The Delta agent was required by law to inform the police, which she did.” I don’t know why I’m surprised at that law, but somehow I still am. The fact that it’s a law for the agent to notify law enforcement, despite the gun being legal for them to transport for him, and legal at his destination — not that that should matter either, frankly, because you’re just contracting with them for transportation from Point A to B, and what you do after you get there is none of their concern — just floors me. If the agent didn’t call, tell me who would be harmed? Process the gun as baggage just like they would in Orlando, and in two minutes it’s on the way to the belly of the plane and nobody’s the wiser. The gun’s leaving town, no arrest, no fuss. Frankly, even on an inbound flight, I see no responsibility for them to call. Again, the contract is for Point A – B transport, and the laws at the destination and your compliance with them are no concern of theirs.
I suppose I can’t fault the Delta agent for following the law and calling (although I can, a little, and do), but it’s definitely a stupid law that makes them do it. But then, what’s one more stupid law, especially in New York?
Follow Federal law, get busted by state law, it’s insane. I have a friend that lives in NJ that I will never go up to visit because I have no desire to disarm myself to be allowed into the Northeast. He can fly down here where it’s sunny and warm, usually, it’s been stupid cold in FL the last 3 weeks…grumble
I’d never fly or take the train from NJ or NY with one of my guns. Driving is the only halfway safe method of travel for gun owners through this area.
Forgot to add the link from the story at the Daily Mail. Fixed now.
“Guerrero told the Delta ticket agent that he had a gun in his possession when he was in the process of checking in for flight 1429 to Las Vegas.
Port Authority Police were called and they arrested him.”
It’s all becoming more and more Orwellian, isn’t it!
Isn’t requiring someone, by law, to rat on someone else a violation of rights?
“YOU HAVE TO TELL US.”
First amendment? Fifth amendment? What applies here?
Nope, and no Amendment applies. If the law says that you report, you report.
It would be problematic for an employee working in a position governed by TSA and Homeland Security rules to fail to report a felony, which can in itself be a felony under Federal and state laws–the crime is ‘Misprision of a Felony,’ and normally doesn’t entail merely not reporting but actively concealing–but prosecutors can do strange things.
There are mandatory reporting requirements also, for example, for hospitals and medical professionals to report gunshot wounds, stabbings, and sexual assaults/sexual abuse of minors to the appropriate authorities.
Naturally, if the hospital or medical professional is the one doing the shooting, stabbing, or assaulting, the rules against forced self-incrimination would apply. . .
In my experience, an inbound flight does not enter into the legally-locked gun thing at all. It’s been cleared on departure, end of story.
Or maybe you meant something different and I misread it.
No, I was just extrapolating. Some airlines have hand-delivered “gun luggage” to me at my arrival baggage claim, when it was fairly clear that’s what it was (Pelican cases with solid locks, etc). It doesn’t strain my imagination to see the airport agent, instead of hand-delivering that “obviously a gun” case to me, calling the cops instead, in a reverse version of what happened in this case.
Remember the whole thing after 9-11 “See something, Say something”. Ratting out is now the American way…….
Dude the subway trains say it to you in robot voices to this day. It is unbelievably depressing. Sometimes, if the conductor realizes they haven’t reached their quota, they will play it over and over again for the whole trip across the river.
This city is like ten million frogs in a pot.
Frig you NY! This guy has done nothing wrong you asshats!
Well, another victim caught! I am truly grateful to Gov. Cumo and the Lil’ Bastard of the Boroughs for not just keeping guns off the streets but out of the skies, as well. Didn’t anyone in NY realize this declared weapon was LEAVING NY? I’ve heard of similar stories happening to people who were just connecting to another flight in NY airports. And there is something FdUp if a Cali compliant mag is a high cap in NY worthy of a felony charge.
Good Luck with everything, Roberto.
While its insanely redundant, its got a silver lining. This guy being a prize fighter and having a bankroll big enough for some ace caliber legal counsel combined with the high profile nature of this case is going to put the law to the test much faster than if the average workaday citizen were pulled for the same offense.
Basically, if he beats this he paves the way for us to do the same and overturn it IN THE MEDIA SPOTLIGHT. I don’t wish him any harm but any ally in this fight is a good one and he’s in place any of us could be.
how much you wanna bet it gets plea bargained down to a fine and community service? Just to avoid someone with money challenging it. That is what I would expect anyways…
That is exactly what I hope doesn’t happen. If I could tip the SAF into getting behind this guy I would. It would be a ticket to victory over the ridiculous set of laws. A plea and pardon doesn’t restore rights and what assurance does he have that it wouldn’t happen again?
They went for plea-bargains with a couple of more innocent out of towners in 2011 and 2012, in part perhaps because they were afraid of national carry gaining traction due to their unreasonable laws being exposed as such. The climate is quite different now, so anything can happen.
There is a very positive way to end this nonsense, but it takes a certain amount of resolve to do so. LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get the hell out of there. Let the commie-crats have the damn place and support a state that doesn’t make slaves of it’s citizens. I can hear the B.S. now, but my family, my job what ever is here. Then stop belly aching and don’t keep re-electing the pukes that have put you in this situation. You have a choice, either take back your state, or leave. It’s your future, and your decision.
All of our futures, really. Leftism is like cancer. Better to eliminate the tumor than to amputate the limb, but sometimes you might have to amputate. Still, might already have spread (look at Austin and Colorado). Californians leaving for a better life, never realizing that their own voting habits were what f@cked up Cali in the first place.
Either you’re an idiot or you haven’t thought this through. The people who are being forced to consider leaving NY are not the ones who elected these buffoons. We are out numbered and we aren’t “bellyaching”. We’re shell shocked and trying to figure out what to do. I don’t know if you’ve got extended family, property and a business where you live but leaving it all behind isn’t a decision you make in anger in five minutes. Not everybody is single and 19 with no attachments.
Cut us some slack and direct your angst at the people who deserve it.
+1.
Who allowed this crap to happen? You did! You allowed it, moron! You stayed home and didn’t vote because you treied to think. You didn’t stand up to discredit this crap because of: ? Don’t give me your bs about how hard it is. Freedom is always hard. I’m sick to death of you left coast jerk offs blaming everyone but yourselves for the freedoms you have lost. Thats right take a look in the mirror, and see who lost them.
The guy in the story was visiting there, for his “job” as a boxer.
1. Moving is NOT that simple.
2. Voting means nothing if the state is full of idiots.
Seriously, your post is dumb. If everyone moves all that’s going to happen is the cancer will spread to YOUR state. Then what? You keep running? Give me a break.
Stand and fight.
New York is completely out of control with the dictatorship well entrenched. And, the district attorney being willing to prosecute someone just passing through the airport with an unloaded and locked away pistol shows that the intended eradication of the constitution is systemic throughout the state government.
New York is no longer a part of America. Stay away…stay very far away. Not that I ever wanted to go there anyway. They’ve never had anything better than Texas.
Pastrami
And pickles (the real kind, from barrels).
It’s true Manhattan’s not part of America anymore, though. I wouldn’t say that about the other boroughs yet, but about Manhattan, sure.
Bialys
Bagel with a lox and a schmear.
New York City is a hotbed of U.S. racism and religious discrimination. It’s obvious. A 32 oz soda? Banned (for a time). Pastrami, “the heart attack on rye”? Not banned. See.
we could just federalize the airports and then federal law would prevail! LOL
Well he illegally brought a gun into New York. He has not intention of staying there or using the “passing through” coverage the law gives him.
I hate to say it, but, I don’t see the problem here.
It’s not like that guy who got delayed in New Jersey and then got charged. This dude said “Oh I’m going to New York, better bring my gun” which is illegal in that State.
I don’t see the problem
“I don’t see the problem?
Mindless obedience to whatever your overlords declare is against the law: even when it’s the first right of self-defense called the second amendment: you must be from England or China or from the land of tyranny called New York City. If your not,you should move there immediately, they’re missing one of thier own.
being a responsible gun owner means knowing the law of the land. You don’t have to agree to it, but you have to follow it.
And if they passed a law tomorrow saying you couldn’t disparage the state in writing or via spoken word what would you do? Would you follow it?
I wonder how many States are there where it is illegal to bring an unloaded gun in one’s luggage. For a permanent move, it would seem like not many, but I am not sure about temporary visits. If the number is small, it is not unreasonable that someone would assume that one can travel with an unloaded gun in one’s luggage. It’s true that one has to be some kind of expert on gun laws to travel these days, but is that really how it should be?
The thing is, it wasn’t just in his checked baggage. It was pretty clearly with him during his stay in NY too, so the Federal legal protection does not apply. Now we can all have our views on the [lack of] merits of the NY law, but unfortunately he was pretty squarely afoul of it.
Oh, that he has broken NY State and City laws is not in doubt. The question is whether this might have been an innocent mistake based on how things work in most of the rest of the country. As far as I know, when you move, you can, in most States, transport your guns to your new place of residence. I am less clear how often that applies to a temporary dwelling, like a hotel room.
The problem is the assumption that one must check state and local law to confirm that the exercise of one of their civil rights does not constitute a felony before crossing state lines. The existence of the law is the problem. The execution of the law is the problem. The assumption that one is obligated to comply with laws that proscribe civil rights is a problem.
Do you see those problems? No? Neither did Bull Connor.
I remember years ago a guy came to our pistol club in upstate New York. He was a student from Maryland who had a Maryland permit of some sort, brought his gun to New York and wanted a place to practice. We educated him on the fact that his permit was invalid in New York State and that he could be in a heap of trouble if caught. We advised him to drive his gun back to Maryland at the earliest opportunity. We never saw him again.
One can call him stupid and say that one should know the law of every State one travels to, but really, it should not be illogical for people to assume that gun laws are “common sense” (in a true sense of the phrase), except they often aren’t.
The guy from Maryland didn’t know he left The United States of America by coming into New York, poor fella.
I dont know much about boxing or how big this guy is but maybe this is a good thing? Not because his rights were infringed but if he is a big name and has money and now a victim of a police state… he could be a good ally
By “how big” you meant, “how famous”, right? Because he’s clearly a featherweight, or something close to that.
Mr. Burke, I try to avoid fighting if I can. Having been a large but stupidly mouthy guy in my youth, I got into a few scraps that could not be avoided.
I had my ass kicked by more little guys (featherweight, or something close to that) more times than I like to recall. One or two guys stand out. I’ve learned that physical size is not an indicator of how much hurt a guy can produce.
I’ve also learned to sometimes keep my mouth shut. Hard lesson, well learned.
It’s obvious that Congress needs to settle this by passing a law, based on the Second and the Fourteenth Amendments, to protect our self-defense rights no matter where we are. I’ve been wondering when Cruz or Paul or Lee would propose such a law…
New York should be forced to relocate the Statue of Liberty to a free state. Arizona is a great candidate, we have constitutional carry and our crime rate isn’t as high.
http://www.tuckerneel.com/static/dyn-images/19/19292.jpeg
i have a would you rather question for you guys. would you rather live in ny, la, or chicago? and there is no escaping to Texas.
What’s this question about? The answer should probably be, just as in angling to get your client committed to the least-objectionable federal prison: Ask for the one of those three with the least gangs. Therefore, flip a coin twice. There’s no difference.
This comes from the TSA website, though it is not complete, it shows Guerrrero screwed up-“Travelers may only transport UNLOADED firearms in a locked, hard-sided container in or as checked baggage. All firearms, ammunition and firearm parts, including firearm frames and receivers, are prohibited in carry-on baggage.
Realistic replicas of firearms are also prohibited in carry-on bags and must be packed in checked baggage. Rifle scopes are permitted in carry-on and checked bags.
In addition to TSA security rules on transporting firearms, airlines, as well as state, local and international governments have additional rules that may vary by location. Please check with your airline and with states and cities you will be traveling into and out of to become familiar with their requirements and ensure you are compliant with their laws.” Guerrero, while he does have a CA permit, that permit has no validity in New York. A better choice for him would have been to ship his firearm to a FFL in Nevada and have it waiting for him when he got there as opposed to trying to ferry it through NYC.
So how would one travel out of NY for a ipsc or other shooting sport match? Would they have to drive to another state to catch a flight?
I’m wondering if he illegally carried a loaded gun during his stay in the “PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF NY”. I find it hard to believe that he didn’t know it was illegal to bring his gun to COMMIE TOWN, but I’m sure he now regrets doing so. I just noticed that my name changed. How do I get back my old name.
I’M BACK.
You were gone?
As a NY State (western end) resident, I have a possible solution to this issue. I’ve mentioned it here before and it’s somewhat counter-intuitive and complicated, but here it is:
Many firearms friendly (red) states, via their reciprocity laws, recognize a NY State Pistol Permit as a de-facto CCW. In fact, a NY State Pistol Permit issued outside of NYC (and Long Island) IS essentially a CCW for most counties outside of NYC and Long Island.
A NY State Pistol Permit issued to residents of NYC and Long Island rarely allows carry. Those few deigned carry worthy are often LEO’s, security types, or People Who Know Important People.
I’m sure there are some very nice people with NYC Pistol Carry Permits. However, most are (well connected) quiet beneficiaries of a rotten and corrupt system. They know the systems is corrupt, but it’s in their favor, so they STFU and go along. They know not to rock the boat.
Well, to put it bluntly: F*** these Sheeple. Those who benefit from and tolerate NYC’s “system” are NOT our allies. Therefore, they need to suffer when they travel. Firearms friendly (red) states should amend their reciprocity laws to specifically NOT recognizeNY State Pistol Carry Permits from NYC and Long Island. Make it a felony. Also, make them ineligible for an out-of-state CCW permit.
If they don’t want to speak out for the 2nd Amendment in NYC, they are not our friends. They need to be treated as such.
Consider: Pretend you are a well paid bank security officer or bodyguard to a billionaire. You have a NYC Pistol Permit to Carry. Because you played the game and know influential types. You often vacation drive to Florida with your Glock. With my proposal in effect, now you may have to think twice when crossing into VA or NC. You may not be able to go to your favorite tactical Florida range anymore because it requires a valid CCW.
What does such a person do?
File a lawsuit? Right – imagine the stench that will raise Bloomberg-land.
No. Such a person applies quite pressure to change NY laws such that out of state non-NY CCW holders are treated with some respect. Then NY negotiates with other states to change their laws so that NYC CCW citizens are treated with similar respect. THAT IS HOW NY STATE WORKS.
You couldn’t pay me to travel to New York or Chicago.
“If a passenger chooses to travel with a weapon, they should first acquaint themselves with the weapon laws of the jurisdiction that they are visiting and comply with any and all legal requirements,’ Queens DA Richard Brown told WNBC-TV.”
As opposed to following the Constitution. That DICK Brown (great name) swore an oath to uphold.