“Lockport [NY] police violated Paul A. Wojdan’s [fourth amendment] constitutional rights by counting the bullets in his gun and charging him with violating New York’s SAFE Act, Lockport City Judge William J. Watson ruled Wednesday,” buffalonews.com reports. “Watson dismissed a misdemeanor charge against Wojdan, filed because the magazine of his 9 mm Ruger handgun contained 10 bullets, more than the limit of seven bullets per magazine under the Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act.” Again, the SAFE Act ammo limit law was not at issue. It was the judge’s opinion that the cops counting rounds was an unreasonable search and seizure. Here’s how it went down . . .
Wojdan was a passenger in a car driven by his wife at about 2 a.m. Oct. 12, when Lt. Adam Piedmont of the Lockport Police Department clocked it going 44 mph in a 30-mph zone on South Transit Street.
The car didn’t stop until Piedmont had followed it for about a mile and a half.
Piedmont was joined by Officer Daniel Barrancotta, who testified that he joined the chase when he heard the siren while waiting in the drive-thru lane at Mighty Taco.
Piedmont said he asked if there were any weapons in the car. Wojdan said there was one in a holster in the glove compartment, and his pistol permit was in the center console.
After ordering Wojdan and his wife out of the car, Piedmont said he directed Barrancotta to find the permit and the gun, which the patrolman quickly did. Piedmont then told Barrancotta to “make the gun safe.”
“My experience is, the best way to make a gun safe is to remove the magazine,” Piedmont testified.
Barrancotta said it was also the only way to check the serial number to match it against the list on the pistol permit, and to make sure there was no round in the firing chamber. There was not.
There is a row of what Piedmont called “observation holes” in the magazine, each numbered, with bullets visible through the holes.
“In observing the magazine, I did notice there were at least 10 rounds in the magazine,” Barrancotta testified. He then emptied the magazine.
“I did count rounds just to confirm our reasonable suspicion that there were more than 10,” Piedmont said.
Tresmond said, “Once the magazine is removed from the firearm, the firearm cannot fire. At that point in time, the search of the firearm should have ceased. But the officers went further. … It was a search without a warrant.”
Assistant District Attorney David A. Hoffman thought the officers’ action was permissible. He argued, “I think it’s reasonable for them to check the firearm and the magazine. They didn’t seek the number of rounds in it. They did it for officer safety.”
Watson ruled from the bench that the officers had a right to ask about weapons, given the prolonged pursuit of the car. “I think the officers had a lawful right to make the weapon safe,” Watson added. But when they started counting rounds, they went too far, the judge concluded.
Lockport Police Chief Lawrence M. Eggert said his department’s policies on checking guns will be altered where necessary.
What does that mean? Watch this space. Meanwhile, check out the angry comments underneath the source article. Wow.
He’s kidding, right?
By the time you finish fiddling with it the bad guy will be helping you just to get it over with. DAMMIT! Here, gimme that thing!
Well…it’s a win, I think? Seriously glad I’m not a lawyer, if that’s how you have to think.
But… but… but… “They did it for officer safety.”
Ah, yes “officer safety” – the new justification for trampling on civil rights.
I’m all for officers going home safely at the end of their shift – but the best way for that to happen is the judicious application of common sense and the minimal use of force, not “warrantless searches for everyone”.
They had no need to secure the weapon if they had removed the citizen from the vehicle (that may be their SOP, but it doesn’t seem necessary) – it seems to me that they heard him say he had a firearm wanted to go fishing. By the same token, if he’d bolted for the vehicle I wouldn’t have a problem with them using the minimum force necessary to stop him, whatever that might be under the circumstances. But that would be the case even if he hadn’t told them there was a firearm in the vehicle.
On a side note, based on the ruling they could have observed the round count through the indicators on the magazine, called a judge and gotten a warrant, having established probably cause to believe there were more than 7 in the mag.
If I were in NY, I would be looking for mags with no indicator holes, or filling the ones in my existing mags in.
The dude is lucky! Most of the time that cops are looking for something, they give their victim a colonoscopy.
Only in southern NM.
Riddle me this, O haters of Democrats (and I count myself): the southern half of NM is staunchly red, while the north is pretty staunchly blue. Yet no such horrors have occurred in the Blue North, only and manifold in the Red South.
? This was in NY
Okay. Let’s go back. Ralph’s quote talked about “colonoscopies”. These, as far as I know, occurred in a short period of time in southern New Mexico. There were three or four of them. Look up “NM forced colonoscopies” and you will see what was referred to.
I fully realize they didn’t happen in NY.
William, in the New Mexico case, the anally-raped man sued and settled for $1.6 million.
The cops were Hispanic. The victim was white. According to the victims’s lawyer, that was the reason they shoved it up his @ss.
We had officer “finger” in Beloit Wi I believe. Last I heard he was one foot in jail other on a banana peel.
When training for a CCW permit we were taught to specifically do what this guy did. If someone is coming at you (in your home mind you) you shout for them to stop. You remind them you have a gun. They keep coming? Eminent danger. You go from Col Cooper’s conditions of yellow, to orange, to red.
Now, was this the moose’s or the sled (we call them that in Maine ayuh) rider’s “home”?
Sorry but, we humans are at the top of the food chain. Man: 1 Moose: 0
The moose clearly took to charging again after the first charge. He racked his slide. I’d have done the same. Not only that, how about the once untarnished sled I was riding? 😉
We teach humans to use force only on someone when they’ve ignored warnings (when that can happen). We are given the right to use equal or superior force to do so. This includes wild animals. Are we supposed to give them a pass? Not me. No sir.
Sad to see a moose go down in his own territory. I love the animals myself. Key word being “animal”. That’s what they are. Wild animals. IMO, this guy is lucky he didn’t piss off a 1,100 bull. He wouldn’t have made it through the first charge.
Eh. Can’t STAND that guy.
I was glad I graduated Boise State when I did, only had to endure him for a short period.
Lead designer: R. Goldberg.
Well, its a win but it is razor thin. Doubt if it is a precedent.
Trial court rulings are never precedent, only appeals court rulings.
A very eloquent and forceful rebuttal.
Tell you what, I’d be getting mags that have no holes in them. How many rounds are in it? Hell if I know, but you ain’t unloading my mag to check!
And I tought my Chiappa 2″ .357 Rhino Revolver was ugly bugly. At least it looks like something that could hurt a person, instead of a “what the hell is that” As my dad told me perception is every thing, if ever have to shoot in self defense, I’d like the bad guy to at least know I’m pointing a deadly weapon. .
Never own an O/U shotgun before. Thinking about to buy this.
Is it normal to have the thumb-break stay in center?
I thought it kinds obstructing the front bead when aiming.
I laughed so hard I blew out my Depends.
Drop the mag,cycle the slide, pick up the ejected round and the gun is safe. Period. No need to examine the mag.
The Constitution. You cannot has it. Cuz Offficer Safety!
Is NY a must inform state? If not, I’d say don’t inform.
It seems this Officer Safety character has a lot of trouble playing by the rules. I think it’s time he became plain ol’ Mr. Safety.
Yup. Maybe he should switch to a safer line of work like construction.
Oh never mind. According to OSHA , 775 guys died on the job in construction in 2012. The FBI says 47 police died as a result of criminal action in 2012. 45 others died from accidents in 2012.
I dunno. Looks like being a construction worker is more dangerous than being a police officer. Matter of fact so is mining, farming, oil drilling and forestry. As is truck driving.
Business and financial services industries racked up 81 fatalities in 2012. Almost up to police levels of danger.
I’m not saying anyone wakes up in the morning and wants to get hurt on the job, (unless looking for the disability check retirement plan) or that anyone remotely should. I’m just saying that I’m a little weary of officer safety being trotted out and used to justify all kinds of silly shit. Like MRAPs and ignoring the Constitution.
It’s the police equivalent of playing the race card. Use it too much and those who were once sympathetic to your position no longer want to hear it.
I guess if the job is too dangerous a guy can always quit or request a desk assignment.
Because there are evil people in the world. Evil people believe in controlling other people. Evil people use the government and a militarized police force to control other people and infringe other people’s rights. Evil people are not human beings and cannot be reasoned with nor analyzed. They are just evil people. There may be one or two people who are not evil, but who operate solely on emotion and do not use logic. However, that does not absolve them of the evil title. It simply makes them quasi-evil. Simple as that.
I’m confused as to why this case wasn’t dismissed at the onset. While I wasn’t happy with the entire decision, we won here (pending appeal) in NYS on the 7 round limit being arbitrary and 10 rounds being good to go. Specifically in that district, if I’m not mistaken. The State Police have even made a statement saying they aren’t enforcing the 7 round limit.
This entire incident was caused by the knucklehead on the snow machine.
The guy in the video was wrong from the beginning. Full grown Moose are seldom afraid of people. Hell, they don’t pay much attention to Grizzlies, except to protect calves. If you’ve never seen a Black Bear fleeing for its life from an angry Bull or Cow, you don’t have much perspective on Moose. The Moose in this instance was a young calf. A full grown bull Moose would have killed this fool. If a Moose is on the trail, you yield the trail. Period. You don’t whoop or make noises in some misguided belief that the Moose will be frightened. If need be, you back up, turn around or simply walk away. Find a different route, or simply wait until the Moose moves on (which, it will). The man initiated this encounter. The guy makes noise and then drives towards the Moose. Can somebody say “stupid”? The Moose, as is usually the case, was unimpressed.
Now, I have no problem with the guy defending himself. Once he was attacked, and with the Moose was still posturing to charge again, he had every right to shoot. However, if he had demonstrated some common sense, this would never have devolved into the situation it became. It greatly diminishes justification when you create the situation. What if it were a Bear? Would he have been so bold? The fact is, a Moose can be as dangerous as a Bear.
Anyone who thinks he’s king of the woods, ruler of the trails; that the creatures who live there should make way for them, is, beyond doubt, an idiot. A woodsman would know better. A respecter of wildlife would know better. The guy in the video learned the hard way.
During our many wilderness hikes, we have encountered Moose several times. On our earliest hikes, we hired a guide, who educated us about Moose. Moose own the woods, and we don’t challenge that. We rarely saw Black Bear. One of those rare occasions when we did, we observed a Bear that wanted to water in a small stream pool where a large bull Moose was feeding. The angry Moose chased the Bear off, and the Bear didn’t dawdle…
It’s as if Google designed a gun.
So if magazine has no holes to check the number in it, this judge has just set the standard. They have to have a warrant to check the total.
OK, it’s been almost 2 months now. Has anyone fired this thing yet? A shooting review would be groovy.
Keep your hands away from my second amendment.
Nobody really NEEDS 28 words in their Second Amendment.
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of.” Those ten should be more than adequate. Only criminals, terrorists and spree killers want the other 18 words.
On December 31, 2013, Chief U.S. District Judge William M. Skretny, of the Federal District Court in Buffalo
struck down the provision that only seven rounds of ammunition could be loaded into a ten-round magazine, calling it “an arbitrary restriction” that violated the Second Amendment, and saying that it could result in “pitting the criminal with a fully-loaded magazine against the law-abiding citizen limited to seven rounds.
It was time for me to change the desktop image, Thanks!
Same here.
It may be only a matter of time before a cop mistakes one of these for a doughnut.
Has anybody ever asked Feinstein, Boxer, Harry Reid, John McCain, Hillary and the idiots in the White House why, if guns are not necessary, they do not give up their guns and also take the guns away from their body guards?
Simple PR stunt is my guess, and a desperate flail, in support of Ms Harris’ greatest admirer, and gallant knight for the oppressed, the Empty Suit of Armor in Chief.
She owes him one for hiring her brother in law, Tony West, over to Civil Rights division after he bundled a bunch of money for Obama while a lawyer in SF. West was just promoted to 3rd in line behind Holder, I believe.
The payback would be “who gets nominated to Ruth Ginsberg’s seat” when she retires…
Hey, its the Chicago Way!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA
Tom, this was an awesome read….please do more stories like this. Ive often wondered about what a hunt experience like that would be like. And throwing down only a grand?! Congrats, all the way around.
Only way this could have been better was to start it off with: “No sh*t, there I was…..you don’t know, you weren’t there…” I kinda feel like LJM above, you do sound a bit like David Petzal, who’s another fun author to read.
Hunting from a helicopter is about as unethical and unsporting as it gets. It is wrong on so many levels and is strictly forbidden on any hunting leases I have used.
If you like to torture animals, then hunt from a helicopter.
Good thing they scrapped the long gun registry… or did they?
>7 rounds prohibited.
Illegal for police to count your rounds.
I see what you did there!
It’s just utterly offensive to tease that poor child with such a nice rifle before she even has the muscle strength and dexterity to fire it. Just Cruel.
Totally ambiguous. The only way to know which way he meant that is by the (D) next to his name.
What Christie was saying when the photo was taken:
“I just signed the bill that requires all state government salaries to be paid by Mt. Gox in bitcoins.”
Wow, so it begins. If you had a shred of intergrity you’d resign. Baiting or not, he fell for it and outted himself.
Seems that this law created a bunch of Connecticut outlaws out of thin air.
its comforting to read all this facts or maybe fiction bt kenya isnt a poor country though we have our own special forces well trained and the equipment is there we jst dnt like to show it off they can match up to any other army in the world so im safe to say they did a good job on the westgate mall siege u can ask me i was on ground during the attack
Wasn’t born here, but got here as fast as I could!
“Texas is a women, she used to say, a big wild beautiful women. You get a kid raised up to where he’s got some size and there’s Texas whispering in his ear smiling saying..come out with me and have some fun. Hard enough to raise children any place, when ya gotta fight Texas a mother hasn’t a chance.”
Four sons of Katie Elder 1965
With John Wayne
She’s doing what Obeyme told her to do, through holder.
Uh huh. Forget about the countless gun incidents that happen WITHOUT silencers…..let’s go after a gun/silencer incident that has NEVER happened before.
YOU DON’T NEED MORE THAN 4 INCHES TO CUT A STEAK! LET’S STOP THE MADNESS!
Glad to see the gun’s got some pretty wood on it. That’s the soul of a lever gun. Well, that and the lever.