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 (courtesy civitasmedia.com)

“A national newspaper chain with nearly 100 publications and 1.6 million readers is considering building “state-by-state databases” on concealed weapons permit holders, according to an internal e-mail,” foxnews.com reports. “The plan, laid out in an email from a top editor at North Carolina-based Civitas Media, could be similar to a controversial project a New York state newspaper carried out in 2012 which included an online map that identified gun owners in two counties by name and address. Civitas’ database project was detailed the plan in a Jan. 19 e-mail to newsrooms in 11 states, including Ohio, Illinois and Pennsylvania.” Confronted by Fox, Civitas downplayed the leak . . .

“In news organizations, a variety of ideas routinely are discussed, researched and planned, which may or may not result in published work,” Lawitz said. “Typically we do not publicly comment on internal proprietary communication. However, we have no plans to publish any lists or databases of people’s names on conceal and carry.”

I’m thinking the database idea is DOA, and note the fact that Civitas isn’t exactly a coast-to-coast operation. [Click here to see if there’s a Civitas-owned newspaper you need to boycott/email.] All hail the Buckeye Firearms Association who got the email first.

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123 COMMENTS

      • and they will.. conceal carry is so common these days, it’s hardly worth hiding the fact. let them publish whatever they want. the more they publish, the more carrying pistols will become the norm..

      • Hey, don’t knock Canada’s favorite son (along with Rob Ford)! In any case, I may have to comfort Selena Gomez, as she goes through this trying time.

        Even in Canada, no FOIP request can access the names of the people who are issued regular Authorizations To Carry (open carry), or the handful of ATC Type-3 (concealed) in each Province, only the numbers of them. Here is the ATF form, and a sample of the ATC 3 form:

        http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/form-formulaire/pdfs/680-eng.pdf

        http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/2006/748.pdf

        A few years ago, one media chain got ahold of the postal codes linked to Restricted firearms (mostly handguns, AR-15s), with no names. This could only narrow things down to a few block radius.

        • Please take him back Adam…we will even increase the canada/ US columbia river treaty payments as an incentive

        • It makes me queasy too. It gets worse though, restricted firearms (handguns SBRs and AR15s) all need an Authorization To Transport (ATT) to take them past your front door. I kid you not, we literally need a permission slip to take our own firearms to the range.

        • Larry,

          We’re keeping Bieber. He’s a major source of tax revenue. You can have Mike Allen (Alberta MLA arrested in Minnesota for trying to pay two undercover cops for sex), though.

          It does not look like the current Red Tory Harper government is going to do away with ATTs, or any other parts of the Firearms Act. The worst part of the legislation is that you become a criminal the moment you are in possession of a firearm with a lapsed license. This was the fundamental change brought in by Chretien’s C-68. Previously, one only needed a ‘license’ (FAC) to ACQUIRE firearms.

    • They want to publicly shame CCW holders as if they are criminals. To try and turn people in their communities against them. It’s not journalism, it’s terrorism.

      • maybe there is an element of shame brewing in your community but not in mine… publishing the list of concealed permits wouldnt alarm anyone..

        • It may not harm you, but it may harm someone who works for an anti-gun firm. Someone’s career shouldn’t be jeopardized for exercising a natural, civil and constitutionally protected right. And for people higher up the corporate ladder with 20 years at the same firm, changing employers isn’t always an easy proposition. We all have to make a living to survive. This is just one example. Just because you don’t have a problem with your name being published doesn’t mean everyone is in the same boat as you.

        • Timbo,
          then its time to come out of the closet… hiding in the shadows because of a persons belief is wrong on all levels.. its hypocritical.. Exactly where the powers that be want you….and if you cant live in honest fashion in your community, then its time to vote with your feet..

        • Replace “ccw permit holder” with “people who mailed in a warranty card for a Rolex watch.”. Or maybe “people known to own at least 10 oz of gold coins.”

          Among other things, it would be a directory of places likely – not guaranteed, but likely – to have something small, easily concealable and valuable.

          The repercussions go well beyond shaming.

        • Larry, I never said I was in the closet about my 2A stance. Trust me, everyone knows where I stand. I have the right to keep my mouth shut. I just don’t have the ability. I just disagree that ANYONE has the right to judge anyone else’s circumstances. Remember, the Anti’s judge us for exercising our rights. How would be be any different for judging HOW someone decides to exercise their rights?

        • In addition Larry, concealed mean concealed in every way. Not just concealed from view but in conversation too.

          One of the best arguments for concealed carry is that the bad guys don’t know who is carrying. Let’s take the Navy Yard shooter. He knew exactly who was carrying. He shot them first.

    • See what the a-hole antis in the media are attempting here.

      They are trying to socially ostracize CCW holders (all gun owners will be next) by compiling and publishing their addresses a la’ what has been done by local jurisdictions with registered sex offenders. It’s a blatant attempt at associative psychology; we must know where the CCW holders live just as we must know where the sex offenders live. It is an exercise in deaminizing and endangering CCW holders, pure and simple.

      I’m surprised they haven’t yet said it’s ‘for the children’.

    • I work with a statewide stroke telemedicine program. If you can get to Arkansas before you pop your aneurysm or have a stroke, we can help. If you pop the A, nothing we can do, but if it turns out to be an embolic or thrombotic stroke, your chances may be pretty good! 😉

      • What are the other kinds? My maternal grandfather died of a berry aneurism, but I was 12, and I never found out what kind. He used to take me fishing. He’d drink whiskey, and when he caught a turtle, he’s go ballistic, and crush them with rocks. The pond bands were covered with the shells of turtles he’d killed. I think my anger issues come from him, but I just get angry at circumstances, not people so much.

    • Can you cite which law prohibits the data from public records? I was going to call my reps about this story and the guy from Florida that was stopped in Maryland for ‘speeding’ and then had his car ripped apart by the transit authority police because he was on record as a gun owner in his home state.

      • lol if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. Florida permits don’t show up on NCIC checks on a traffic stop. His wife said something stupid, that’s what set everything off (“oh, he might have a gun in there!”)

        • His wife said something stupid AFTER the LEO asked about guns. It is almost the first think he asked about. Please follow along.

    • Not sure about anywhere else, but the statute in CT is Chapter 529 Sec. 29-36fg.

      Relevant Section:
      “(e) Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 1-210 and 1-211, the name and address of a person issued an eligibility certificate for a pistol or revolver under the provisions of section 29-36f shall be confidential and shall not be disclosed, except (1) such information may be disclosed to law enforcement officials acting in the performance of their duties, including, but not limited to, employees of the United States Probation Office acting in the performance of their duties, (2) the Commissioner of Emergency Services and Public Protection may disclose such information to the extent necessary to comply with a request made pursuant to section 29-33 for verification that such certificate is still valid and has not been suspended or revoked, and (3) such information may be disclosed to the Commissioner of Mental Health and Addiction Services to carry out the provisions of subsection (c) of section 17a-500.”

    • Mississippi Code of 1972 as revised last year:
      Section 25-61-11.1 The name, home address, any telephone number or other private information of any person who possesses a weapon permit issued under Section 45-9-101 or Section 97-37-7 shall be exempt from the Mississippi Public Records Act of 1983.

    • Please tell me that you’re joking…

      Having an abortion and/or working for a clinic is a choice. It’s not a rite gauranteed to you by the Constitution or B.O.R.

      • So you think that anyone who disagrees with your political views deserves to be harassed 24/7?

        Typical Republican. Just like Democrats, you only care about certain freedoms that you approve of.

      • The term ” Rights” is a matter of opinion….that was proven by our government during world war two with Japanese internment camps…. There is no such thing as god given rights.It’s all about who controls whom.. and who submits to whom..

        • Wow. Maybe the most prescient point ever made here! That’s why I ridicule the notion of “natural rights”. The only rights we enjoy are the ones paid for with blood, sweat and tears.

      • It has been many decades since the Supreme Court concluded that a woman obtaining an abortion is a right under the bill of rights–which, if you read ALL ten amendments, specifically provides that the list is not exclusive. But that’s not really the point. Publishing information about doctors, clinics and nurses got people killed; just as publishing the names of ccw holders may get people killed.

      • And because it’s not your choice, you don’t give a hoot.

        You are the reason this stuff happens… first to them, then to you.

      • I think the doctors and nurses on that list should be issued phased plasma rifles (in the 40W range) or portable rail guns so that “smackit” and all his buddies will think twice about firebombing their clinics.

  7. If they or any other news organization do plan to go forward why not use the same FOIA on them and their employees and get some dirt on them. Of course I’m not smart enough to know how to put this together but I bet the care takers of TTAG or some of the more savvy posters know how.

    • I believe when the Beacon tried that the names and addresses of all their employees were posted on the interwebz. Sh1t stopped on both sides real fast.

  8. The papers on the list in this area, at least, are tiny rural small town fish-wrap. It’s doubtful that this organization is likely to risk the cost of the legal liabilities that such an action would entail.

    • Plus given the nature of small rural communities in their market areas, they would run the risk of alienating a substantial portion of the folks who live in the area.

  9. Hahahah. Try that in texas. Chances are, the person you file the FOIA paperwork with carries on days off and will file it for you in the round filing cabinet under the desk.

  10. May I suggest an all out full blown e-mail and fax blast to these turds on our objections of such an inappropriate dissemination of such private information. Anybody got the #’s?

  11. Somebody needs to find the names, addresses and phone numbers of the publishers and editors and distribute them to all gun owners so they may know if criminals live in their neighborhood. Do it for the children.

  13. I couldn’t care less if people know I carry conceal, it’s as common as being an organ donor these days.. there is safety in numbers you know.

      • you mean like the drivers license tells the criminal who has a car to steal??.. I tell yu, they just dont put that kind of thought into it

        • well chuck
          you cant play whack-a-mole and expect to win… i suppose driving neighborhoods looking for cars to steal is also done… But with so many cars, houses, driveways, people…your odds are pretty good that locking up your stuff is about as safe as you can make things.. same with guns… buy a safe….thats about the best you can do.. of coarse there is the alarmist approach one can take:

          when in danger when in doubt, run in circles scream and shout….

  14. “Statement from the CEO

    Civitas Media never had any plans or intentions of publishing in print or online lists of holders of “conceal and carry” permits. Nor will Civitas Media develop databases of permit holders. A poorly crafted internal memo meant to highlight editorial discussions and planning incorrectly indicated that such a database was being planned; it has been considered and rejected.

    Michael C. Bush, CEO”

    http://civitasmedia.com/article/20140124/HOME02/140129999

    Nice CYA, Mr. Bush. Wonder how the original email got leaked. I’m sure every other newspaper has/is/will consider the same idea. Because they have to do SOMETHING.

  15. More of this crap? I’m in Upstate NY, where we are about as gun friendly as you can get despite the fact that we are forced to deal with laws created by the NYC population dominated gov’t. After the downstate newspaper pulled their stunt, our Sheriff’s office put out FOIL Exemption paperwork. This effectively removes your name from any list obtained through FOIA requests.

    Wonder if any other areas have done the same?

    • Somehow an exemption was included in the SAFE Act, so it’s not just one Sheriff. Unfortunately there was a date you had to turn them in by so new permit holders are screwed. Or they would be, but thet hing is… everyone and his brother filled out the form to have himself exempted, so the clerks are completely swamped and won’t give out ANY information to the so-called “journalists.”

  16. I get that the sentiment and the implied invasion of privacy are detestable, and even that someone might use such a list to do harm to good people.
    But I can’t help but say, ‘So what?’ Concealed carrying is at an all-time high, and most people are hardly tight-lipped about it. I wouldn’t worry a bit to show up on the list; the odds of being singled out for attack, retribution, or robbery are pretty slim. Even so, they’re picking on ARMED people- exactly what do they think pushing too hard will accomplish?
    It seems to me that this is a very good way to alienate potential readership (they’re in NC- where a helluvalotta people carry) and endanger friends and neighbors.

    • Im with you guy..
      so freaking what??.. so many people carry concealed it’s hardly worth the effort to hide it.. Im hoping that concealed carry goes the way of prohibiting women into saloons..

      • Welcome to Afghanistan where women are prohibited from saloons. Come to think of it saloons are also prohibited.
        I for one favor women in saloons, and bars, and heck you name it I’m for it, except in combat. No longer for combat.

    • I don’t want you or anyone else knowing whether I carry or not. That alone should be reason enough to answer your ‘so what’ and it stands for many others, as well, judging from those who have gone through paperwork to try and prevent having their houses pointed out by some rag.

      Keep in mind not everyone lives in places where carrying is a normal thing… and no, such news stories do not normalize gun ownership as much as you might like to believe it.

      • That’s a reasonable sentiment. I also live somewhere that carrying isn’t ‘normal.’
        It would be foolish to think that ostracizing is equivalent to normalizing. I don’t recall taking that position.
        I do think it would be nearly as foolish to think that being ‘made’ as a gun owner or carrier is as harmful as some people would like to pretend. It’s not some dark brooding secret to hide- there are more firearms in this country than people.
        I do not take the ‘if you don’t have anything to hide…’ position, ever. Everyone has a right to privacy. I just admit to myself that if someone starts looking through my windows, he might see me naked, but if he comes in uninvited he’ll be shot.
        What fallout would you expect to encounter if you were outed?

  17. If the newspaper chain does publish concealed carry lists, every pro-gun website on the net should publish the home addresses and the makes and models of cars owned by the publishers, editors, and reporters associated with this nonsense. That information is in government databases too.

  18. I wrote a very nice letter to the originator of this idea and cc’d their entire board:

    Mr Lawitz,

    As a CCW permit holder, I would be personally insulted and very upset if my information were to be made widely available to the general public as I have read Civitas Media under your instruction has proposed. While a complaint from one lone individual might do little to dissuade you, I am certain that you are well aware of the power of numbers and how passionately many tens of millions of Americans take our 2nd amendment rights.

    As an organized group we can, have and will exert all pressure the law allows to voice our disastifaction with individuals who violate our privacy and potentially put ourselves and families at risk. If you need a more concrete example of what the law allows us to do and what has been done in the past, please look into the Sandusky Register Editor Matt Westerhold who created and published a similar database back in 2004 and his experience in dealing with upset firearm owners.

    Respectfully,

    Mike H

    Here was the response:

    There is not nor was there ever any intent on disseminating private information of private individuals.. I am afraid you have been misinformed although this misinformation is somewhat the fault of a poorly constructed internal idea exchange among editors, thanks, Michael

    Michael C. Bush
    CEO/President
    Civitas Media LLC

  19. Sorry, that information is not available for release, go pound sand…

    “Is the information regarding CCW licenses available to the public?
    No. The information regarding CCW licenses is not considered a public record and the DOJ, Department of Transportation (DOT), or any employee of DOJ or DOT, cannot make it available to the public except in the context of a prosecution for an offense in which the person‘s status as a licensee or holder of a certification card is relevant or through DOJ‘s annual report to the Legislature and the Governor. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(12)(c).”

  20. What exactly is the purpose of their list? And how does it benefit society?

    Should ask the paper if they plan on making identical lists for income, gays, jews, prescriptions, etc.

    • What about police officers? They have guns and in many places do not need permits, should their names and addresses get plastered all over? Crap, I don’t want to give these stupid papers any more ideas though…

  22. in some states, it is a crime to publish this info . . . and I am sure an enterprising state prosecutor will do so . .

  23. The stinking antis and the media a-holes in their corner are trying to demonize gun owners and establish a social atmosphere of distrust, loathing and contempt toward gun owners similarly to what local governments have done with mentally disordered sex offenders through published databases of where they reside.

    The intent is to mark honest law abiding gun owners and CCW holders with the implication that they should be held to ridicule and somehow punished for their exercise of lawful and constitutionally protected activities, regardless of the unjustified risk gun owners are subsequently exposed to.

    To disparage, humiliate and endanger law-abiding honorable gun owners / CCW holders in this manner is outrageous and hanging would be too good for the kind of people who would do this!

  24. I think they run a risk of undermining their argument if they are foolish enough to print all those who CC. The total number might not align with the “overwhelming majority favor gun control” mantra.

  25. I think that in Virginia CHL holders are not a matter of public record and divulging their names is a crime. It certainly will be actionable in civil court. Good Civitas.

  26. In Florida, the records are not public info. The raw numbers by county are, but not the names and addresses. Hell, our CWFLs don’t even have our addresses on them. This is recent though. Prior to 2006(?) it was public info. A local newspaper actually did something similar to what the New York paper did. They didn’t do it as a “does your neighbor have a gun” piece, but they did it as “What celebrities, politicians, and other famous folk have permits…” – but then they linked to the website where you could run names.

    Which has since been taken down for obvious reasons.

  27. From the Sept 14th 2012 WSJ.

    “Versa Capital Management’s combination of its four newspaper companies has created a 1,650-person media company on more sound financial footing together than it had apart, said Michael Bush, the newly-named chief executive of Civitas Media LLC.

    New York-based Versa said on Wednesday that it was consolidating its media holdings, including Freedom Central, Heartland Publications, Impressions Media, and Ohio Community Media, into one company called Civitas.

    The publishing company’s portfolio now includes 35 local daily newspapers and 63 weekly publications across 12 states in the Mid-Atlantic and Southern regions, with a combined weekly circulation of 1.6 million. Some papers now under Civitas Media include The Times Leader, the Pittston Sunday Dispatch among others.”

  29. I hope they plan to include the names and addresses of current and retired law enforcement officers. Don’t want to leave anyone out…

  30. So, if they do publish it, then concealed carry doesn’t become so concealed. If conceal is allowed and not so concealed why not just open carry at that point? Wink wink, nudge nudge, grin grin.

  31. The El Paso County Colorado Sheriff does not share the CCW database with anyone, including the state. I called them earlier, and the Sheriff has already said no way in hell was he giving the database to them. I know plenty of other Colorado Sheriffs are saying the same thing. Hopefully every county tells them to go piss up a rope. Not likely, so my condolences to all of you who get published.

  32. If they out me and my house is all of a sudden burglarized or my home is targeted for any other crime, since I live in a nice crime free area and have never been a victim, I will retain counsel and I will sue for damages, pain and suffering and anything else their choice to out me created for myself and my family.

  34. Carrying under a privilege is not the same as freely exercising a right. There are all sorts of pitfalls when accepting a government privilege in lieu of exercising a right. There’s nothing wrong with having a concealed carry license, IMHO. However, I am always cognizant that I’m exercising a privilege at the whim of government when I carry under the auspices of the license or permit.

    Such information about licensees is no longer public information in Ohio according to the current Ohio Revised Code. We had an issue with a newspaper here before a change was made in the law… (IIRC, it was the Cleveland Plain Dealer.)

    Here is another link to go with the article… http://www.examiner.com/article/newspaper-ccw-project-shelved-gun-talk-to-tackle-microstamping.

  35. I’m fairly certain that SB 937, that was passed in North Carolina (my state!), made pistol purchase permit and CHP information proprietary to law enforcement only. Even if they published this database, it’s already out-of-date and cannot and will not be updated at any point in the future.

  36. IDK what to think about this. On one hand it’s against privacy but on the other it lets the baddies know where not to tred. The police already know who has a concealed permit and where you live.

  38. Come visit Free America. Here in Vermont we enjoy Constitutional Carry. No permits, no license, no database. Residents and non-residents alike can lawfully conceal or open carry a firearm on their person without a permission slip from the nanny state/King/Dictator. Ahhhh… Freedom!

  39. The statement says they have no plans to publish it. It does not say they won’t. Boycott Civitas Media and all of their advertisers.

  40. http://civitasmedia.com/article/20140124/HOME02/140129999

    “Civitas Media never had any plans or intentions of publishing in print or online lists of holders of “conceal and carry” permits. Nor will Civitas Media develop databases of permit holders. A poorly crafted internal memo meant to highlight editorial discussions and planning incorrectly indicated that such a database was being planned; it has been considered and rejected.”

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