Angstadt Arms makes some impressive sub guns for police and military use (you can buy one too, if you jump through the NFA hoops). They’ve submitted their SCW-9 prototype as one of the finalists in the US Army’s search for a new sub compact weapon.
Now Angstadt has released a teaser trailer for a new firearm, the MDP-9, a gun they’re calling “the subgun perfected for the modern age.” They’ll officially drop the veil on the new gun on January 7.
Angstadt says they’ve put a couple of “Easter eggs” in the trailer that hint at what makes the MDP-p different than other pistol caliber options. Have a look . . .
Did you find them?
Oh look: it has a sig-style pdw brace with a white logo. I didn’t find any easter eggs otherwise, looks very MPX like.
I don’t think sub guns are relevant in the modern world. Just get a 5.56 shorty ar15. pistol rounds still over penetrate but won’t go through soft body armor. 5.56 will.
There is no reason anymore to not go with 5.56. I even find 5.56 in 9mm price range some times.
Would be a fun gun to shoot though probably :p
I think you’ll find shooting a 5.56 pistol is noisy outside and intolerable indoors. The 9mm subgun is just a better choice for a residence pdw.
Sounds like personal preference. Most of the swat guys here use 5.56 with a suppressor. At least the modernized departments. One of them here still has hk mp5’s full auto. They just don’t use them because who in their right mind would want to use a pistol caliber.
It’s fine for civilian use I’m sure. I just don’t get in what way it’s better? sound is not justification for using a less effective platform that can’t even get through soft body armor.. Not if your law enforcement or military. Modern hearing protection or suppressors. There is just no good reason not to.
I know I sound elitist or w/e but I will state my position on this openly. Not trying to be rude at all. Always feel rude stating positions like this.
If you want to use pistol calibers I support your freedom to choose. I would own one for fun.
I use to have a similar opinion until I shot a 9mm AR pistol. It was so easy to shoot, almost zero recoil, and a breeze to control. I loved it so much my next gun will be an AR9. I would not feel under gunned using it for home defense. Just my 2 cents.
ahh residence pdw. I’ve got a pile of server issues to deal with today so I am distracted. Sorry
Biatec,
How about a sub-gun chambered in FN 5.7 x 28mm rather than 9mm Luger or 5.56 x 45mm NATO?
That seems like the sweet spot. You get the velocity that you need to defeat soft body armor. And yet you don’t get the deafening blast of 5.56 x 45mm NATO. Bonus: the cartridges are smaller diameter than 9mm Luger so you can cram even more of them than 9mm Luger in a double stack magazine.
yeah. Not a bad idea. I bet at longer ranges though an intermediate cartridge will still beat it even from a short barrel. I would want the ballistic damage of a 5.56 as well. Also I don’t think most people are looking at a subgun chambered in 5.7
I don’t own a gun in 5.7 not sure how far it can reach out. Does 5.7 tumble? I would be curious actually about that stuff.
Now days it’s hard to beat an intermediate cartridge. There was a time though.
I like 5.7 a lot though based on what I have seen. I would love a striker fired no manual safety handgun in 5.7 actually. lol
I betcha 100 rds of 5.7 will cost better than 3x 100 rds of 5.56. If you are gonna shoot it, that should make a difference.
I have not checked. Maybe so 😮
Biatec,
My preliminary research suggests that 5.7 x 28mm does tumble.
There is no question that 5.7 x 28mm is designed/intended for short range engagements, ideally less than 50 meters. At ranges beyond that, 5.56 x 45mm NATO is far superior.
Inside a home, though, 5.7 x 28mm coming out of a long-ish barrel will do the job quite nicely without the deafening (as in significant and permanent hearing damage) that accompanies 5.56 x 45mm NATO inside closed walls.
I’m surprised that Glock has not already come out with a new model in 5.7. Sure to be a big seller.
Binary trigger
It all comes down to personal preference and what you want to do with the gun.
Realistically 9mm will get the job done for certain environments. Even if it doesn’t penetrate a soft vest it’s gonna wreck someone’s day.
Figure you’re using some Blazer Brass 115g rounds. From a pistol length barrel that hits someone at realistic inside-your-house distances somewhere around 330ft/lbs of energy. That’s the equivalent of taking a baseball to the chest at 78.5m/s or 175.59mph.
Move that up to an 8.9″ barrel on an MP5 and swap your ammo to something a bit better, not even the top end of what that barrel and ammo combinations can produce and we’re talking about moving up to 500-550ft/lbs the equivalent of getting hit in the chest with a baseball that’s going 215-225mph.
In a very accurate and highly maneuverable package with nearly no recoil that’s good ’nuff for home defense. Especially when your first round has 14-29 friends to back it up before you even swap mags.
Suppress that thing and, well for certain applications it’s just better that futzing with an actual SBR.
strych9,
Serious question (no snark or sarcasm): is that portrayal accurate? Would the blunt force trauma of a 9mm Luger 115 grain bullet hitting a soft ballistic vest in your chest cause about the same amount of pain/bruising/damage as a baseball hitting you in the chest at 175 mph? I have no idea. It certainly seems plausible strictly from an intuitive sense.
Ballistically speaking, the 5.56 is superior to 9mm in a barrel 10+ inches, but below that it struggles compared to 9mm. Also, 9mm is cheaper and more fun to shoot.
Ballistics of 5.56 are superior in everyway to 9mm. A 9mm AR and a 5.56AR are nearly identical in size. I think the 5.56 even weighs less than 9mm.
The one place where a sub gun makes sense is with a suppressor. Suppressed 5.56 is still very loud and gassy. If you don’t get the option of eyes and ears the 9mm is seriously worth considering. You can also shoot at pistol ranges for training, although a 22 conversion bolt negates this.
Uh, want to explain how to buy one of these by jumping through NFA hoops even though it’s a post-86 gun???
I suppose if one categorizes “become an FFL and a Class 3 SOT” as “hoops” the parenthetical is true. But since that involves running an actual business, I suspect Mr. Zimmerman is, like many people, simply unclear on the difference between most NFA items and the machine gun ban.
I’m quite clear on the difference, thank you. In addition to braced pistols, Angstadt makes semi-auto SBRs that you can buy with a $200 tax stamp.
Your write up should have reflected that.
@VG. Or maybe some reading comprehension and then clicking on the website.
…or perhaps the author just do a correct and complete write-up. Now that would be novel I know.
“Angstadt makes semi-auto SBRs that you can buy with a $200 tax stamp.”
Well, OK, but you wrote “…makes some impressive sub guns for police and military use (you can buy one too, if you jump through the NFA hoops).”
A sub gun and an SBR (short-barrel rifle) are two different critters. Just saying, it raised my eyebrows a notch when I read that… 🙂
Dan, a “subgun” is a sub(machine)gun, not an SBR, and is not semiautomatic. The “sub” is because it is a pistol caliber machine gun.
This came up in a timely manner.
I just purchased a NIB Steyr AUG NATO spec (yesterday AM) for my son’s Christmas gift (rare gun, black, P-mag, 20″ barrel from factory, 3x Swarovski optic)
Noticed a NIB (NO certs) FA trigger sear assembly on GB, went (yesterday pm) and talked to my FFL in Dallas (Dallas PD and SWAT use this shop) and was told the hoops to jump thru are like parting the sea, and cost a fortune.
An FA AUG would have been nice, but it’s a MASSIVE undertaking.
IMHO, It’s a TON more then a hoop jump.
How about you Gusty/Berp/JCFanClub?
What has been your experiences in going the FA route?
Ask Tom in Oregon, at one time, he had a registered drop-in FA fire control group for his AUG…
Most of the firearms on the website would be SBR by definition requiring NFA tax stamp. You’re reading too mich into that statement. Just because they are producing full auto for the Army trial doesn’t mean they only sell full auto.
Ahhh, so “sub gun” meaning a compact semi-auto weapon suitable for use in the cramped space aboard a submarine, rather than shorthand for “submachine gun”.
No they are making/made a submachine gun for Army trials. The website sells SBRs, and civialian legal semi auto versions of their sub machine guns.
When I read “sub gun” I read it as “submachine gun”, not “short-barrel rifle”.
But here’s to hoping the SCOTUS gets around to that issue in the near future… 🙂
Geoff, simply repealing or overturning the entirety of NFA 1934 will handle it, either way.
We’ll clear up this confusion by creating a new term.
I’m partial to MSSPDGTCPCLLSBNMGR.
Modern-Sporting-Small-Personal-Defense-Gun-That-Comes-in-Pistol-Calibers-and-Looks-Like-a-Subgun-But-is-Not-a-Machine-Gun-or-a-Rifle.
There. All cleared up and no one can ever be confused. And it’s perfect for everything from HD to TEOTWAWKI, fat guy CCW, your nastier STD’s, just generally operating operationally all over that AO and other acronyms as well.
FTFYFYVM.
Larry, POTUS can issue a special NFA “Amnesty” registration period, he’s fully within his rights to do so.
And if he loses next year, what an *awesome* FUCK YOU that would make to Leftists and the ‘Deep State’ as he leaves office… 😉
“Larry, POTUS can issue a special NFA “Amnesty” registration period, he’s fully within his rights to do so.
And if he loses next year, what an *awesome* FUCK YOU that would make to Leftists and the ‘Deep State’ as he leaves office… 😉”
I hope it happens at the end of his 2nd term.
I have a few Patriot Ordnance Factory piston operated ARs that are built to full FA spec (heavy profile nitrided barrels, adjustable gas blocks…..). Would be a simple 5 minute swap job to FA.
That may be true for certain states, but I am sure it would include me having to move.
Same here. Yet another reason to escape from New Yorkistan.
Does it take glock mags?
I was hoping it would take enfield mags.
I hope not.
It certainly looks like Glock mags in the video. And I noted the markings on the casings at the end which I believe are indicative of the type of action.
“sub-compact”…??? That doesn’t look “sub-compact” in the least…
Well, it has a fluted chamber, for sure. Look at the last shot of the brass, and it shows the telltale sign. May turn out to be a neat gun.
OK- what’s the advantage of doing that, and what are the downsides?
Won’t that ruin the brass for re-loading?
I’ve never had any problem reloading cases from my p7.
I think the problem is with the roller delayed rifles eating up brass. And that has nothing to do with the flutes and a lot to do with the rather violent extraction.