By Johannes P.
Chicago Sun-Times columnist Neil Steinberg isn’t a fan of the fact that citizens in the Land of Lincoln will be able to legally carry a concealed firearm. Of course, that’s after jumping through numerous hoops such as undergoing a background check, paying a rather significant chunk of change, obtaining a Firearm Owner’s ID and enduring two days of training. And as long as they don’t try to do it in an area that’s on the long list of places that the Illinois legislature has banned concealed carry for ordinary proles. “Guns are about perception, fear, fantasy,” he says in a recent Sun-Times column . . .
As Steinberg sees it,
Anything that encourages someone to take that gun and stick it in his pocket by definition increases the danger of guns.
The question is: Do people need those guns? If you ask any police officer, unless he or she is in the most crime-ridden district, they can count on one hand the times they’ve had to draw their weapon. It doesn’t happen that much, even to most cops.
For civilians, it happens far less. That’s why we keep hearing these stories about fearful mopes blowing away minority teenagers and hardly ever about grandmas getting the drop on bad guys stealing their purses, then marching them to the police station. And you know if it ever happened, the NRA would engrave the story on a coin and badger Congress into issuing it. [Emphases added.]
First, that’s probably the most heart-wrenching use of the word “unless” since the conclusion of Dr. Seuss’ The Lorax.
Second, Mr. Steinberg misses the mark by apparently discounting any sort of tally of defensive gun uses in which a firearm was displayed or drawn, but not fired.
Third, it’s a good bet that Steinberg isn’t a regular reader of American Rifleman, so it’s quite possible that he isn’t aware that the NRA actually does trumpet defensive gun use stories (though, to be fair to him, I haven’t seen them actually engrave them anywhere). Still, even though times are tough for print media, I expect that they have access to the internet at the Sun-Times, and I was able to find a map that the Cato Institute maintains showing defensive gun use in the United States. And look what I found!
Category: Senior
Name: 87-Year-Old Woman Fatally Shoots Man in Her Home
State: IL
Description: East St. Louis, Illinois: On February 7, 2006, Jacksie Mae King used a revolver to kill Larry Tillman after Tillman cut her phone lines and pried the iron bars off her windows to gain entry. The 87-year-old woman was given a .32 Colt revolver for self-defense by her daughter, a police officer, after she became the victim of a home invasion beating and robbery. Even though the woman didn’t have proper Illinois credentials to own a gun, police declined to charge her with any crime.
- Incident Categories:
- Senior
- Home Invasion
Date: February 7, 2006
That’s a fascinating case on many levels, no?
Now, I don’t want to be too hard on Mr. Steinberg – we all have our own particular ideological blinders, and it’s pretty clear from the language he uses that the column is an emotional reaction to his side’s political defeat more than a well-reasoned argument:
We don’t need to argue — not that anybody for sane gun control has the heart or the guts to pipe up anymore. All we have to do is sit back and watch the future unfold, which is all we’re going to do. It would be funny if it weren’t so tragic.
Still, I can’t help but wonder…what is it that Mr. Steinberg is really worried about? If constitutional carry has somehow not resulted in rivers of blood flowing in Vermont (home to Bennington, Woodstock, and the Hon. Bernie Sanders, no less,) and licensed carry is available in urban areas as diverse as Philadelphia, Cleveland, Miami, Houston, Phoenix, Denver, Portland, and Seattle, what horrors does he see in store for Chicago?
Ultimately, what was the point of his column? Other than to vent his spleen at the fact that his downstate rural political opponents — whom he clearly views as his social and intellectual inferiors — got the better of him here, it’s hard to tell.
Tell him/her to lie on the ground with their hands on their back. Then call out that the shooter is down and ask for assistance restraining the individual. If no one comes I would raise one open hand in the air and repeat, “shooter down” every few seconds.
Yeah, that’s what we’ll do. What you said.
Those Framers! What a bunch of kooks, enumerating the right to keep and bear arms as the second Amendment. What were they thinking? Thank goodness we have newspaper columnists to second-guess them. Everyone recognizes the inherent brilliance of newspaper columnists, right? Wise men, every one of them. Steinberg — he’s not another Ashkenazi Jew, is he? Because they appear to act as a clique regarding gun control, which is curious, at best. Was that not a PC question? My apologies.
Again, another idiot that does not understand that the human predators just DO NOT CARE about the laws and morality. The depend on the fact that people will be unarmed and unprepared.
this guy’s got some real kahonas! He’s part of the problem with the liberal media they never cover any story and less it bleeds! This guy on to take a walk to some of those neighborhoods in Chicago rated more dangerous than Afghanistan! He’s a pompous ass!!! Of course he doesn’t need a firearm he lives in a secure building that the rent is probably seven thousand dollars a month! Just another Bloomberg asshole!!!!
Ha!
We forget that he is a great hero in South Africa, therefore the O.J. factor will come into play. There will need to be video of him planning the shooting, confessing it to camera, and begging to be jaied for life, before he will be convicted. His past record of shooting everything in sight may lead to impressions he was just reverting to default shoot ’em up mode in a domestic crisis. He will definitely get special (favorable) treatment if he does end up in prison.
BANG…you dead mofo…nuff said.
Exactly. Pretty sure he had another gun in his pocket, Kafir. You saw it too, didn’t you? Looked like he was going for it. We all agree then. Active shooter. We were legitimately in fear for our lives.
Perhaps Mr. Steinberg is upset because he cannot get a CCW. Type his name followed by the word “arrest” in Google.
Oh, I’m sure he’ll write a retraction next year when there are no “rivers of blood in the streets” as has been predicted time and again.
Yeah, I crack me up sometimes.
Figs right, let’s hope not
Of course most cops don’t draw their guns. They mostly get to the crime scenes after the fact and take reports and make notes–why do they need to draw their guns?
I’m glad to hear Vermont mentioned finally. Constitutional carry for as long as we’ve been around (as a state AND an independent republic) and a large amount of firearms…but last time I checked the 2+ feet of snow outside was not stained red.
Unfortunately, there still was 2+ feet of snow outside…
and licensed carry is avaialble in urban areas as diverse as … Phoenix
Phoenix is in AZ, so it must be even “worse” than that.
Point of fact, the NRA does report on legitimate self defense stories all the time. Mr. Steinberg’s lack of awareness does not mean it doesn’t happen.
http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspx
But even if it didn’t, why should my rights be subject to what Mr. Steinberg feels is “often enough?”
I only have to vote for a president once every four years. Once every four years is pretty infrequent… so perhaps we should just do away with that too… just to save Neil any discomfort.
My concern with this whole episode is the fact that they confiscated the database for AA. So now they have all this data and then they begin mining it and comparing it to other databases they have. It is an easy thing to look up YOUR other purchases and of others who purchased one of those lowers. Personal a feelings aside but Edward snowden showed us more of the capabilities of the government and their willingness to disregard our privacy. Do you really think that BATF is going to return the database without making a copy of it? Of course now that they have the data they will mine it just to see what pops up. Why not right? They could discover the next big security threat against the US right? All they had to do was just ask for a report on purchases and sales and inventory of the 80% lowers which is easy to do and then they do not need to take the whole database. It frightens me because if you connect certain dots you can make it look like anything you want it to. Next they find some willing judge to sign off on a warrant and the next thing you know you have visitors at 3am. This is not just a detective in a tie but a tactical team because hey you bought that lower you must be one of those crazy gun people and the officers need to be prepared. Plus we have all this cool tactical shit that homeland security gave us and Bobby over there has never done an actual breach. So they do this and scare the hell outta you and wife and daughter as they zip tie them while they “look around”. Well they did not find anything and are sorry for trashing your place but you should feel secure in the knowledge that they are actively pursuing all suspicious activity. It is for your own safety and well being after all. Oh by the way “have a good night”.
Now you think surely this would not happen but really? Is it that inconceivable? They do not feel you should have that lower to begin with so how much of a stretch is it.
Just thinking out loud and no in general I am not a conspiracy person but perhaps just a guy with an over active imagination.
He seems to be using the liberal medias refusal to run any story contrary to the narrative that guns are weapons of mass destruction, and that gun owners are trigger happy child murderers, as an argument against the second amendment. That’s so cute. The left really is one giant echo chamber. I’m sure that this fellow, when provided with examples of DGUs, will simply shove his fingers in his ears and scream until the offending party stops contradicting his narrow worldview.
I’m a cop, and I can tell you that the number of times I’ve drawn my gun on duty can be counted on one hand. And I’ll continue that count with my other hand. I’ll count after that on my toes, and a piece of scratch paper after that. Done.
Between stops of stolen cars, burglars, alarm calls (90% bogus, but still), and felony contacts, I’ve drawn my gun on duty quite a bit. Guns are a wonderful deterrent against felons. I recommend one (or maybe a couple dozen) for all responsible citizens. The only time I don’t carry is when I’m in the shower, and on long distance runs. As someone who has personal experience with DGU’s, I can tell you that a gun locked up in a safe won’t do you much good when you’re out and about.
I draw at least once a week, not counting rifles. Mostly for building searches, but also occupied stolen cars, some felony warrant arrests, and every once in a while we find a fleeing robbery or felony assault suspect.
I had to clear one burglary scene yesterday, and hold perimeter on another a few hours later while the k9 searched it. Both times we had reason to think someone was still inside, and both times the pistol came out.
Guns are about perception, fear, fantasy. Far more so for Steinberg and co. than for those of us who can tag “reality” onto the end of that sentence.
What a man says about the people he dislikes reveals a lot about himself.
ICK!
There will be selective enforcement of these laws. The police will be at your home because of a call for service, or they stop you on the way to the range and will “discover” your illegal firearm or magazine and they will charge you for it. If you have 6 magazines, then it’s 6 felony charges plus the one for the gun if you didn’t register it.
Some police officers will not enforce the law but many will.
These fights must be won in court, when some poor sap gets charged and convicted.
Bottom line, is you get the government you elect. Until democrat gun owners are caught up in their own legal webs they lay, maybe then, it will awaken them. Because I say this loud and say it clear, it is the DEMOCRAT party, that hates us, hates our gun rights and it’s DEMOCRATS that introduce and sign into law, the mess we have in Connecticut.
So IF police rarely need to draw their firearms (which isn’t all that true; it is true that most rarely have to fire them, but that’s sometimes because the threat of deadly force was sufficient) why do they need to carry them?
Because sometimes they do.
If your normal citizen would rarely need to think about using a firearm they still need to be legally able to do so… because sometimes they do. Even rarely, even almost never. Because telling someone they need to let someone rape or murder them because it happens rarely is not acceptable.
Somebody should have told the SIG gunsmiths: just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should do something.
It’s pretty ugly. Ugly fugly.
My regard for “journalists” is nearly as high as my regard for gossip columnists for the National Enquirer, but not quite.
Yeah, the Supe Tabs tell the truth more often!
I locked in on a Vepr 12 I wanted. Layaway better than nothing. Got a saiga 12 that I can use on a reg bases.
This is fun. This is what an EP lower would look like if it was clear (this was actually a project they tried to produce, but it was withdrawn before it made it to market):
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/07/16/clear-80-ar-15-lowers/
HAS SCIENCE GONE TOO FAR!?!?!?
It ain’t no Toledo Salamanca!
Man, I thought that bill didn’t make it OUT of committee – YAHOO!
now if the socialist GOP gov will sign it – that is the proof in the pudding
We should all go there and buy insignificant novelty items or unregulated items with a credit card or debit card so when the ATF finally does get their hitler-on in there and has access to the customer lists, there are millions and millions of pieces of irrelevant data. They’ll have to hire ten Hadoop experts just to begin the task of finding what they were looking for!
We are allowed to carry a weapon to defend our families or ourselves when in fear of death or great bodily harm. Once that threat has ceased, we can no longer use deadly force. We aren’t law-enforcement, and not obligated to use force to stop an attack on anyone else. That’s a fairly small window to legally use deadly force.Hopefully will never be in that position, please have it clear in your mind when or if you pull your weapon it;s for the right reason.
The governor of Connecticut would like to share some words with all the panicking statists of Illinois: YOU LOST!
Ha, Ha!≤/nelson>
Truly a higher level of Bubba.
Functional and beautiful; now; the only thing to make it better is to have a beautiful real gun woman demonstrate superior marksmanship with one of those works of art.
That would truly be a work of art. Functional and beautiful.
I love the gun, just upset with the clips jamming when fully loaded. I have six clips and they all do the same thing. I am using Hornady ammo with ballistic tips.
“Guns are about perception, fear, fantasy,”
Funny… I was going to say the same thing about gun grabbers. Also I would like to point out what i think is important. If there are 100 police officers and only 5 have to use their guns in their lifetime, for a total of 5% usage, but there are 10,000 citizens and 100 have to use their guns in their lifetime , for a total of 1% usage…. according to this Expletive Deleted that means guns are useless, because a smaller percentage used their guns.
In no way will I ever accept the idea that fewer individual citizens ever have to use their guns than individual cops.
A gentleman should never need a pistol, but should he need a pistol he will need more than anything he has ever needed.
Unless… He has a personal security force. Or a cop he can carry everwhere piggy-back style.
1) Are these sanctions just on these Russians over arms and ammunition or just sanctions period on these guys?
2) Couldn’t domestic manufacturers start making Russian arms and ammunition?
Saw some Holland & Holland ones on ‘How it’s Made’.
Price tag was £144,580…roughly $240,000.00 USD. Higher ones on their website.
Up to 1200 hours of labor per firearm.
Jump to 46 seconds in the video for the price tag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMmau4lSDuY
http://hollandandholland.com/
The problem with this scenario doesn’t underline what a human does under stress. If you were confronted with someone shooting people you are going to on theory launch a counterattack. You are highly unlikely to communicate or ask for a surrender or even see the attempt. Life isn’t some crime drama poker game so the idea of meeting eyes with the shooter and finding him wanting then him backing down is the stuff of cinema. Not reality.
I said this to say the obvious. If people in a simple robbery scenario can’t keep track of the rounds they fire or what the bad guy was doing at the time of the trigger squeeze then you are vastly overestimating the gross motor movement sequence and adrenaline.
The last order you gave your body was to survive. The milliseconds it takes to discern murderous behavior from a surrender or more murderous behavior is overly hyped as 100% controllable reaction time and can get you or other people killed. It is not so easily controlled or remembered even. You will do what you feel you need to in order to survive and protect your own.
Hopefully it will not involve shooting an unarmed man or waiting for him to shoot someone else before you figure out there isn’t a surrender.
Ruger Makes a great gun and I love this little carbine. Well worth the price .
a real man who don’t need no stinkin’ gun would post his home address, pics of his wife, and the times when he won’t be home. . . . . just sayin
Fantastic collection!
Those who forged this nation were very wise; shall not be infringed. What a shame that the People didn’t posses the wisdom and courage to hold government to the contract. How complicated and tragic the relationship between people and government in this nation has become.
The crimes here are being perpetrated by government and its agents.
Than you joe Biden for the for the advice!
What if you miss?
Not nearly as beautiful as those, but I picked up a stunning Sako with a mannlicher stock in .375 last week.
Mfg date in either 79 or 80.
The bluing is just incredible. The deep checkering, the wood… It’s got serious wow factor.
No I dislike chest rigs and MOLLE gear especially. But I keep my trusty ALICE gear near me always. Prefer ALICE any way its very rugged and reliable.
Todd Vandermyde’s response: http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46696&#entry690803
He and Steinberg have agreed to a debate after the Illinois primaries.
No specific details yet other than Todd wants it in a public forum and unedited.
Steinberg will have no idea what hit him.
supplier commented:
(in response to foghorn5950)
“I was curious to know how you center yourself and clear your head before writing.”
I just start writing and stop when I’m done. On occasions when I’m not in a hurry, I read it back at least once, and edit it if I need to, and then sometimes I just save what I wrote to a text file and forget all about it! But my advice is, if you want to write. write.
Have the documents you drafted up from when you sold your weapons. Maybe have a throw-away or two to surrender. Never allow another human being to completely disarm you.
maybe years ago in a rational, somewhat educated society would i warn, warning shot or any of that. nowadays, a warning just gives away your position. youre going to shoot to kill or youre not. it comes down to that, unfortunately. people are so stupid and animal now, if they see you showing weakness by hesitating long enough to warn, they will double their attack. here in detroit just the other day a woman in her house with her kid warned three ‘boys’ she had a gun, and they still came in after her. what did they ‘think’? they thought that because she wasnt already shooting, she was probably lying. what if she wasnt ready? the kid coming in had a pistol. what if she wasnt in a firing position and was looking to see if they were compliant? no warnings, no shooting air. stand your ground til its obvious they had evil intent. if they see you at the last moment and drop their hands and get on their knees all by themselves, thats a different story. kill or be killed.
Hilariously bad. CZ, Glock and FN need to stage an intervention.
“We’re working on it. In the meantime you can get a reply link by temporarily switching to the Desktop version of the site.”
That would be extremely counterproductive to my general and overall laziness. Not cool.
I think pointing a gun at someone and saying,” Stop, I have a gun…” is sufficient warning.
That would likely get the attention of anyone that needs their attention gotten, or is capable of having their attention gotten. Best to not squeeze the bang thing unless absolutely necessary.
Lotta hard internet operators out here.
That said, you are under no compulsion to demand a surrender. You are not a cop. And announcing your presence is a tactical mistake. If just the sight of your terrifying visage propels an active shooter to the floor and his gun ten feet away in less time than it takes to pull a trigger, then I guess yeah, you probably shouldn’t shoot him. Seems unlikely though.
Of course, we do have the same strict laws on knifes, automobiles, hammers, and baseball bats right? Knifes and automobiles kill more people than guns(excluding war).
I’m not sure if James Stewart should be included on this list, as he was fighting for our country and constitution. I’m sure none of the others were. At least he had class, B-24 Liberator indeed.
I wish I had an “IGNORE” button on my keyboard so that I could filter out “celebrity” news and other such drivel. If Justin Bieber gets his ass kicked on youtube let me know ‘cuz I want to see that. Otherwise……zzzzzzzz
What a load of s##t How about the late Charles Durning? He was at D-DAY. I’m sure he “murdered a few Nazis”.
So you have $900+ dollars in a Mosin. Yeah. Okay.
“Libya, where hundreds of militias hold sway and the central government is virtually powerless, is awash in millions of weapons with no control over their trafficking.”
Does Carnival Cruises call on the Port of Tripoli? Because this sounds like a kick ass helluva fun time shore excursion. I don’t want to hurt anybody, of course, but it sure would be fun to pop off a few thousand rounds into the empty desert, full auto and otherwise, from all sorts of guns.
Wife beaters do not get a free pass for being Liberal Period. Neil Steinberg is trash. Plain and simple. Beating a woman is a “choice” not a mistake.