This won’t come as much of a surprise to TTAG’s regular readers: Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America jefe wants all guns to be registered with the government. “‘We have invested a lot of money in car safety… Every fatality on our nation’s roadways has been documented by the government,’ the founder, Shannon Watts, told VICE News. She noted that car license plates and driver licenses helped ‘instantly verify the validity of the owner’ of a vehicle, but that no such measures exist for concealed weapons.” So what does Shan call concealed carry permits, required by most states that “allow” citizens to exercise their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms outside of home? Oh wait. Watts wants the gun to be registered, as it is in NY, NJ and elsewhere. There’s just no satisfying some people.
This car argument false analogy. You do not need a license, insurance or a registration to own or operate a vehicle on private property. Why should I need it for a gun.
Exactly. I don’t need to register any vehicle on my property. Don’t need a license or insurance either.
Well it’s clear Shannon is as knowledgeable on car laws as she is on gun laws…not at all. You can literally drive anything with an engine and wheels on private property. Good luck shooting anything you like whether private or not (unless you have a small zip code’s plot of land). Hell, I can even import a vehicle that’s not even legal to drive on US roads but I can take it to the track.
Good luck shooting anything you like whether private or not (unless you have a small zip code’s plot of land)
Depends on where you live.
On my tiny 5-acre plot (an awfully small ZIP code), I can lawfully shoot any firearm I can lawfully possess – including full-auto if I could afford one. My “range” starts on the patio outside the walk-out basement under the deck; it ends 75 yards away to the east in a hillside. As long as my projectiles don’t land outside my property, I’m good to go – according to the county attorney’s office and Sheriff.
I just spent an exorbitant amount of time reviewing the US Constitution multiple times looking for the right to posses and drive a car. I didn’t find one. Hmmmm??? I did however find a little blurb about the right to bare arms.
I’m thinking this car/gun analogy doesn’t hold water. Wonder is Shannon ever looked through those same pages?
You should read closer.
The tenth amendment calls out that the people retain all rights not granted to the government. That’s why the government doesn’t restrict or license cars on private land, only on government owned roads.
Look even closer still and you’ll see that you have the right to BEAR arms, not bare arms. I wonder if this means that the government can force you to wear sleeves?
http://www.amazon.com/Right-Bare-Arms-Larry-Cable/dp/B0007QS4T6
Not to mention that the Constitution doesn’t mention anything about automobiles.
But if you give the car analogy quickly, without allowing the listener time to critically analyze it, it sounds good.
That’s what convinces the crowds.
We need to be a little careful with this analogy: most places you do need insurance, license and registration to operate a car on public roads.
You really want the same restrictions on open or concealed carry?
A car is a car, and arms are arms, and neither is a banana. Regulation of each, if any, should be determined on the merits alone and not via analogy.
I’m willing to give in on this one a little bit…if Shannon wants to eliminate licensing, registration and insurance on cars, I say let’s do it.
No shannon, just no.
Just like a car has a VIN, every gun has a unique Serial #. I have a shotgun that is nearly 100 years old that has a serial # on it. This is not a new concept.
Every gun used in a crime and confiscated as evidence is recorded. Every crime reported to the police is tracked. Just like car crashes, every incident involving a gun that requires police presence is tracked in a statistic somewhere.
These people are so ignorant. Almost everything she wants already exists.
What she really wants is the ability to report on who owns what, which has nothing to do with reducing crime and will do nothing for safety.
I always want them to answer this simple question “How will you get people who are criminals to follow your proposal?”
Not every gun has a serial number. Some are built without, some have them scratched out, and some have the wrong serial number deliberatrly placed upon them.
Isn’t defacing a firearm serial number a felony on its own?
You can build a car without a vin, too. Just can’t drive it on public roads.
Winchester model 37 single shot break action 12 gauge shotguns were not serialized for the first few years of production. I used to have a nice little “Boomstick” cut down to 18″ (barrel, overall was 26″) with no serial number. Alas, there was that boating accident…
“She [Ms. Watts] noted that car license plates and driver licenses helped ‘instantly verify the validity of the owner’ of a vehicle …”
The only thing that license plates and driver licenses “instantly validate” is that someone paid large fees to a state government. They say absolutely nothing about the past, present, or future state of the vehicle or competence or intentions of the person operating the vehicle.
License plates and driver licenses are another example of security theater … as is mandatory registration of all firearms with government.
I’m guessing Shannon has never heard of an unlicensed person stealing a car that was in an accident were someone was hurt/killed.
Ask any of the active duty LE folks here how many unlicensed drivers they interact with while doing their job….
Or unlicensed/uninsured drivers, unregistered/expired vehicles, etc. Just make a law! That will solve everything!
She probably wants a speaker attached to each gun, that, when the safety is off, announces loudly, “I AM A GUN. I BELONG TO BOB THOMAS. MY MASTER LIVES AT 123 OAK STREET AND WAS FINED IN 1993 FOR DANCING ON A SUNDAY. ” repeatedly once every 3 seconds.
Hm.
An update on the ‘ole bell on the cat’s collar.
Or you were busted for Sunday dancing…
🙂
I am now picturing Shannon Watts chanting, “P. Sherman. 23 Wallaby Way, Sydney, Australia” over and over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDpqi_6UHGk
Maybe all gun owners should be required to wear some kind of official mark that lets everyone know what kind of undesirable they’re dealing with. Maybe a yellow star or something. (Now where has this kind of thing been tried before…?)
Because those concealed carriers are the ones who commit all the crimes… oh wait.
I’m not sure exactly what she’s getting at here. It’s there a problem with CCW holders going around with stolen guns? Does she imagine that they’re going to use that gun in a crime and a bystander is going to record the serial number, as might happen with a vehicle license plate?
Yes, all of us concealed carriers will have to have a plate. with a 6 digit alpha numeric code… Front and back – and lighted at night. 🙂
but don’t you dare let that firearm be seen!
I think we can just accept Frau Watt’s proposals that we wear a easily recognizable symbol… A gold star stitched to our clothing should do just fine. In the finest tradition of her movement’s personal hero.
I should have scrolled down just a leeetle bit farther. We had the same idea. 🙂
Never Mrs. Stalin, I mean Mrs. Hitler, er ah, Mrs. Pot.
Just never.
Shannon watts register this!
How are things at Kroger, Shannon? But help yourself, get on another bandwagon that isn’t going anywhere.
Will someone tell her the Form 4473, and the attendant “Multiple Handgun Sale Form” and the “Multiple Rifle Form” for states bordering Mexico already IS registration?
-Yes, I realize its not by legislative word *registration* per se, but let’s not kid ourselves. It is a document with the purchaser’s name and the serial # of the weapon . Those of you who buy your guns “off paper” should note that the government can get your bank statements much easier then a 4473, and will detect your firearm ownership status easily enough that way. No one buys AR mags for fun without a rifle….or an optic…or a stock….etc.
Gifts! They were gifts I tell you!
Who for? Uh…
For my brother’s … uncle’s … cousin’s … nephew’s … former roommate! Yeah, that’s it! Good old Uncle Roomie!
“Those of you who buy your guns “off paper” should note that the government can get your bank statements much easier then a 4473”
Well, there is cash … or even barter trade for that matter.
Wasn’t she the one that hired a couple of armed thugs to perform “security” at one of her protests?
In other news, the sun sets today. Sun expected to rise tomorrow.
Yes, we should have gun laws as lax as automobile licensing and registration laws in Maryland!
It is really wild, but in Maryland you can still buy a car even if you have hit (and killed) someone. Once you are out of jail, of course. You might have your driving privileges temporarily suspended though. But you are sure are free to look at it in your driveway or drive it on your own property.
Speaking of gun registration, Baltimore had 211 murders last year. Half are solved. No word on how many were solved through the new firearms laws they passed. Or the old ones, even. Educated guess: ZERO. The number of crimes D.C. police admitted on the record that D.C.’s registration scheme solved with their laws… One?
But also in Maryland, if you’re late paying your tags, the State will come and cut your license plate off of your car – even if it’s on your private property, and even if there’s no evidence that it has left or will leave your private property.
(Happened to my sister. Admittedly, the .gov doesn’t have very much to do down in Calvert County.)
How about we register all the morons who believe this is a good idea. Let’s start there.
As long as we are registering for rights, how about we register 1st Amendment Freedom of Speech also? People like Shannon would need a “Speech Permit” issued by the government in order to publicly speak on issues of public policy that could potentially endanger people’s liberties.
She would need to prove her ability to handle speech safely without any harm to others. She would need to document speech training in the ability to speak without bullying or infringing on the rights of others.
When questioned, she would need to provide her Speech Registration number and card before being allowed to speak further. If she used her speech to demand interference with the liberties of others, her Freedom of Speech Permit could be revoked.
Hmmm, I’m about to talk myself into thinking this is a good idea.
You forgot to mention that those with a freedom of speech permit will need to attend expensive classes to insure that they hurt no one. after all, the pen is mightier than the sword and you cant carry swords around willy nilly… tickets can be given for having an acerbic wit.
This lady is a complete nut case and loves the attention, she could careless about others all she wants id the funds in hand.. i remember seeing an email from her to a group admin on facebook and she threatened to call the FBI on him for simple questions she could not answer.. SHE IS NUTS!! PERIOD
If we regulated guns like cars:
No minimum age to buy one
No limit on how many we can buy
No background check
No waiting period
No limit on fuel (ammo) capacity
No restrictions on horsepower
No minimum (barrel) length
Muffler (suppressor) standard equipment
License required only to operate in public property
Works for me!
This.
CCW License reciprocal with all 50 states?
It goes like this:
1) Register all guns.
2) Account and relate all guns and their owners. (Attach them to a person)
…Once all gun owner relationships have been accounted for
3) Craft restrictions on gun ownership.
4) Audit registry for newly violations on gun ownership by an individual
5) Go after individuals for violations.
Register, restrict, prosecute. This is not about “accountability” of gun owners, it’s a framework that is needed before restriction and enforcement can be enabled.
For those who think she’s “nuts”, “crazy”, “stupid” – she’s not. She’s crafty. She’s thinking several steps ahead. An AWB was not “sellable” to the public, whereas she’s betting that registration is.
It will be sold to the public as an end, whereas really it’s a means.
The antis’ directions are rapidly changing and we have to see what they’re hoping to see down the road.
Things have to get – I hate to say it, but in the truest sense of the word – tactical.
Oh, she’s nuts. The same way her Fuehrer was nuts. I bet she’s got a “final solution to the gun owner problem” that involves stealing a few more ideas from her hero.
Ok – I’ll give you that. Thing is, nuts and crafty/conniving are not mutually exclusive.
She’s a saleswoman – The drumbeat changed from AWB to background checks, and I would be surprised if national registration was not the next “mom and mayor approved” official commonsenseforthechildren bill of goods trying to be sold. (or thrown to the wall to see if it sticks.)
And the next time a school shooting takes place is when it will stick best.
And a national gun registration would prevent a school shooting… how, exactly?
“And a national gun registration would prevent a school shooting… how, exactly?”
They will be doing…*Somthing!*
Because they…care.
(Insert retching noises *here*)
All I have to say is … Jawohl!
She clearly hasn’t heard of the Supreme Court decision of 1968 (Haynes v United States, 390 U.S. 85) which ruled that no one who is prohibited from possessing a firearm (like maybe a convicted felon?) can be prosecuted for failing to follow any registration law, as forcing such a person to do so would be a violation of his 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination.
I agree with Curtis.
With one exception.
A Fed so much as steps onto my property to even ask about a fire arm.
I get to kick him off with zero consequences.
Then I might register one 22LR pistol or something like that.
Even then I doubt I would do that.
Anyone who thinks the Feds don’t keep the 4473 forms someplace forever is dreaming.
Well, they use weasel words. They don’t keep the forms. Those are, in fact, destroyed. They do however keep the relevant data someplace, after the forms have been destroyed. Wink wink. Nudge nudge. etc. Pretty sure this is how ‘crime guns’ are ‘traced’.
+1 Curtis! And Dirk give Shannon some action…
National registration has already had a run up the political “flagpole” did not garner enough votes to pass, move along Mrs. Watts.
The next time left controls the House, Senate, and WH is when they will have those votes…
False equivalence. Besides, difficult as it may be, it is quite legal to have an unregistered car, on public roads.
The laws are not what they claim them to be.
Fine, mrs shenagian twats, I will registrer my 1 or 2 carry guns as long as they repeal NFA (including machine guns) and tracking nothing I buy/make for use on private land.
Just the same as cars.
Ne, Nei, Nie, Nee, Nej, Nao, Nyet, Na, Non, Nai, Nem, Nahi, Pa, Lo, Ohee, Nein, Ara, Ei, Bu…
NO!
Well gee Wally, Car registration sure does save lives. Once someone dies in a car wreck, the cops show up, figure out who the owner is based on registration records, and the victim instantly springs back to life. Gun registration will work the same way, once the cops show up and run the gun’s serial # through their records, the victim is unshot and can get up and walk away.
Oh wait, it doesn’t work like that. Apparently all registration is good for is so when the cops show up to clean up the scene, the crime can be “documented by the government” and the car/gun ownership can be “validated” in Ms Watts’ own words, all too little too late.
Oh yeah, and confiscation. Registration is most helpful for confiscation too. Read “Gun Control in the Third Reich” by Stephen Halbrook.
Ms. Watts,
Why stop at registration of firearms why not take it to the next step, registration of the firearms owner, I mean that’s never been tried before…… right, oh wait…… IL and Cuba. That my dear is what FOID stands for, “Firearms Owners Identification Card” and that is just going gang busters for IL now isn’t it.
Proud to see the POTG are taking the fight to them. Wherever there’s a comment opportunity on an anti-gun media channel, we need to go over there and state our piece to balance out the rubbish.
Protip – be polite.
She can want all she likes. The only thing she will get is a worse headache.
is that a “I MET DIRK DIGGLER AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY T-SHIRT” she is wearing under her oversized coat by chance?
Keep dreaming, Dr. Diggler…
Heh.
I wonder if she’s dumb enough to try to remove the ENTIRE 1986 F.O.P.A.
Hughes amendment included.
With that said, she’s got a real pipe dream here. Not going to happen. Not constitutional. It’s historically the only true prerequisite for full scale confiscation – which she’s unfortunately too smart to admit. She truly wants that though.
Hmm… They say seatbelt laws save lives in car accidents, maybe they should require gun owners wear level II vests to help keep us safe from gun accidents?
But then again, true accidental gunshot deaths are way fewer than car accident deaths, just as I would expect murders and suicides via gunshot are much greater than murders and suicides via cars.
So maybe giving the vests to criminals and people with suicidal thoughts, as public service, is the better idea.
And would Ms. Jefe consider a federal database of all women who get abortions?
I suspect Shannon’s grasping at straws. I also see by the picture that someone gave her “her sign.”
this should help illustrate their new agenda: identifying and harassing gun owners. they realize now that guns are not going anywhere so their next best alternative is to target all gun owners and put a spotlight on every transgression committed in any way by any gun owner.
I would love to see her correlation that registering cars somehow cuts down on vehicular homicides or even accidents. Of course she can’t, she doesn’t value facts, only emotions. She is most likely very religious as well.
I hate the “Well, we register cars and license drivers, we should have the same for guns” argument. It’s such an invalid argument, yet the antis think they’re so clever for the analogy.
Constitutional Carry should be the norm in all 50 states. No CCW permitting, no “Duty to Notify” laws, and absolutely no registration of firearms. Ever.
If it failed up here in Canada (the long gun part has been scrapped entirely, and the pistol registry is useless), how is registration supposed to even approach functionality in the US? Perhaps for her next proposal, she can demand the tides stop rolling in.
Question #1: what existing (present, past, or future) crimes committed using guns would such a law prevent? (Where such law has been enacted, provide statistical evidence to support its efficacy.)
Unless and until Question #1 can be answered, no other debate needs to take place.
This is my rule on every proposed “common sense gun control” law.
HOW F#ckin stupid are you people! STICK YOUR head up Your blind @$$es and say I want to to back home dorithy..You People are as SHARP AS BOWLING BALLS. DO you have enough sense to set an alarm clock in the morin. I do not think so?? ibecillic morons.