keep firearms in their vehicles.
Thirty-two-year-old St. Paul resident Bruce Chang drove home to find a gaggle of young men gambling on his driveway. A violent confrontation ensued. As his workplace bans firearms on their property Chang didn’t have his Smith & Wesson M&P .40 on him. Fortunately, his wife was at home and armed. From cbslocal.com . . .
“I didn’t know I was stabbed but I felt the pressure and fell to one knee,” he said. “I immediately pushed off, because you got to survive.”
He was assaulted by a mob of 15 to 30 young men gambling on his driveway. They threw rocks and jabbed a stick at his face, striking him just below his left eye.
“With one of my older neighbors, who knows what would have happened,” Chang said.
The nature of the mob attack meets the requirements for disparity of force; at least one of Chang’s attackers was aiming for his eye socket, threatening him with grievous bodily harm. Bruce Chang would have been justified in using deadly force to prevent and/or stop the attack. His wife was justified in threatening deadly force with her pistol to stop the attack.
Chang would have been less likely to have been disarmed in states like Wisconsin and Kansas, where employers are shielded from liability if they respect employees’ right to exercise their Second Amendment freedom. It would have been less likely in Texas and Florida, where employers are required to respect employees’ property rights inside their vehicle
But in Minnesota, there are no such protections. Minnesota is one of only six states that doesn’t have their own protection of the right to keep and bear arms in their state constitution. Employers are free to ban firearms from employees’ vehicles and terminate the employment of any who violate the prohibition.
Corrrection: Minnesota protects people with carry permits. They have the right to keep firearms in their vehicle.
A change in the law is not forthcoming. Governor Mark Dayton is adamantly opposed to Second Amendment rights. That said, last year Governor Dayton signed off on gun law reforms that were included as part of a larger budget bill. It’s possible it could be done again to protect the right to keep and bear arms inside a vehicle.
©2016 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included.
Link to Gun Watch
15-30 perps? Tell me more about how I don’t “need” a machine gun.
Maybe not a machine gun, only for accuracy sake, but yeah, try defending against a mob with an arbitrary 10 round limit, or whatever the magic number is this week.
Magazine limits are unconstitutional nonsense, let alone useless as some kind of deterrent to or impact minimizer of spree shooters. Against a mob of punk kids in a driveway, though, even a two-shot derringer would suffice. Shoot one in the face and the rest of those roaches will scatter.
Firing into a mob doesn’t take accuracy. That’s the nice thing about m855. It will tend to disable multiple thugs per round.
Or a standard capacity magazine. Am I expected to beat the last 5 of them to death?
“standard capacity magazine”
By that I assume you mean a 17 round magazine in a Glock 17. 🙂 That is “standard” for that pistol.
03A3 not only a gun but a handy club
Gambling in the man’s driveway? WTF?!?!
This happened to my family in Providence. City construction workers.
People not from the Ocean State have a hard time understanding how pervasive organized crime is, which extended into plain thuggery on the streets once men know they are truly connected.
Hell, Buddy Cianci’s wiki page reads better than most Grisham novels.
I am not from the Ocean State. I am from Chicago. I had an uncle who was a numbers runner from the 30s through the 50s and another uncle who was in Lefty Rosenthal’s crew in the early 70s. (Portrayed as Sam “Ace” Rothstein in the movie “Casino.” So I know how pervasive organized crime can be.
I’ve seen how the federal government operates. While I’ll grant you, it’s pervasive as Hell, it’s not that organized.
RI’s organized crime is a shadow of what it used to be.
Now the organized crime is 99% state and local government employees.
Its a prolific big city problem. Oakland, san francisco, Berkley, san jose, richmond, Los Angeles, etc….. Basically places where people buy in to the government provided security lie.
You need to get out more. There are plenty of people in this country who do not respect private property. Most are only stopped from moving into your house by their fear of firearms. Once guns have been rounded up and confiscated in this country — mass chaos will result.
No thank you, I’ll stick to a relatively small town and then live on the outskirts in a smaller town.
Park off the employers property. Quitting smoking and walking a little further to his gunned up car would do him some good.
The articles is wrong employers do not have the right to ban firearms from employees vehicles. it’s written in our carry law the only exception is churches and that is only from case law
Or you could give a f#!% less about your stupid employers rules and carry everyday all the time. No one is going to dictate where I can and can’t protect myself. Concealed means concealed. Five years, two different employers, mechanic job, glock 27 w/ spare mag, nobody knows.
Not true. Minnesota employers cannot ban employees from storing a gun in their car in a parking lot. However, emplyment is at-will, so conspicuous un-holstering or re-holstering is not a good idea.
The Hmong (from Laos) are here because they fought alongside Americans against the Commies during the Vietnam War. At the local indoor range there are almost always young Hmong men and women. They’re good people.
See Gran Torino
They’re people, just like any other. Good & bad. I’ve heard the Hmong have a fairly high rate of criminality up in Minnesota.
Tom is right, the Hmong are normally very nice hardworking people. That neighborhood is hit and miss, it’s got some bad parts and a little bit of gang activity but it’s not too bad. A buddy is a cop in that precinct, I just did a ride-along with him a couple weeks ago. I will say that SPD is great, they work well with the community and the people there appreciate it.
According to Chang in the Pioneer Press the guy that stabbed him was not Hmong.
A former (recovering) HR professional here. Even if the state did allow employers to ban guns in cars on company property, they could only ASK to search the car under two circumstances: 1) Probable cause, and 2) a well-know, well-publicized random search policy, documented in the employee handbook, a policy that the company can document is actually being regularly enforced, which I doubt they have.
Even then, they do not have authority to force entry into an employee’s locked car. All they could do is discipline the employee for refusing the search, IF that also part of the the policy documented in the employee handbook and the company can document that it is regularly enforced.
All this is especially true if the employee is a minority, like Mr. Chang. The state of MN is hell on wheels about any kind of workplace discrimination. If the company disciplined Mr. Chang for refusing to open his car and could not document they regularly did the same to employees of non-protected groups, the MN Department of Human Rights would be all over the company’s ass.
So Mr. Chang, this is not legal advice, but I think you could hide a gun in your car on company property and never have a worry about it.
DADT
It is quite possible that he works for a federal agency as well where law would prohibit carry onto the grounds.
I’d try to upgrade my housing situation. Mean time, God bless guns.
At the end of the video; the bimbette asks with trepidation; “but what would have happened if he had a gun on him when he was attacked? ” And I say with exaggerated patience; “Ummm, maybe what happened when the 15 to 30 “young men” all ran away at the first sight of the gun held by the man’s wife?”
“…could also have provoked a much more dangerous, perhaps even deadly confrontation…”
I guess they missed the fact it would have interrupted the deadly confrontation underway.
The round count in this situation I don’t think would have mattered much. The reality in ( here we go) MOST cases is after a bang or two and some loud screams on the assailants parts the others would scatter to the four winds. In the ( here we go……again ) unlikely event that they wouldn’t taking down the odds a few would still work in ones favor. Remember….your adrenaline is pumping more due to the fact YOU are fighting for your life. They are only fighting out of some bizarre desire.
This article seems to omit the part about how his wife intervened? What happened? Did she see the battery through the window and come outside??
I did not see any description of exactly what the wife did, except that she showed up with her gun.
More detail:
Chang shouted to his sister-in-law, who had been in the vehicle with him and locked herself inside, to phone his wife and ask her to come out of the home with a gun.
Both Chang and his wife have permits to carry, and she came outside with a gun, Chang said. The attackers ran off.
http://www.twincities.com/2016/03/08/in-st-pauls-payne-phalen-youths-attack-man-returning-from-work/
Thanks for the follow up!
Not sure it was wise for him to confront the hoodlums, and it sounds as if he did. Of course, I don’t know the circumstances, but I wouldn’t confront 20 teenagers even I was wearing my armor and had my hand on my standard capacity handgun. 20+ is way too many. It is my understanding that teenagers in groups like this are notoriously aggressive.
Yeaaahhhhh … confronting 20 or so young men at close range without a firearm is foolish in my book. If you feel that you must confront them, do it from a healthy distance (at least 40 feet) and have a significant firearm … at least a full size handgun in 9 mm (with 15+ round magazine and two spare magazines) or larger caliber, or a shotgun with one in the chamber and five more in the magazine, or an AR-15 with a full 30 round magazine and a spare magazine, or all of the above.
Even if you scare them off – they know where you live and now have a vendetta against you for ‘disrespecting’ them. You’re likely screwed.
In which case it is time to tool up and get a couple game cams.
Gambling or gamboling?
A hard working Aisan American gets assaulted by “a gaggle of young men gambling on his driveway.” Those damn racist Minnesota Amish yoots……
Slow clap for his missus!………
Gambling on the driveway-this looks like a job for #4 buckshot! My neighborhood is “changing”. Mostly squirrels and birds pooping on my drive. Hope they’re free from gubmint persecution…
Reasonable and Sensible.
Those of us in the military are still screwed as far as being disarmed on the way to/from work.
*Except Dyess AFB, TX
Yes and yes.
A better plan would be to snap some pics as you cruise on by. Get the photos to police. Then call your friends!
Rich and vibrant neighborhood apparently.
“Chang estimates the suspects’ age from high schoolers to early 20s. One who attacked him with a branch was black, 17 to 18 years old, 5 feet 10 inches to 6 feet tall, with a skinny or fit build, wearing a light-colored (perhaps white or gray) hoodie and a black-and-white checkered backpack.”
It’s my driveway. I’m parking there. Move or get parked on.
Knowing where i live is a double edged sword. I know where you live, also. And since I have a job I can afford gas and flares.
And god help you if my wife has to come outside. She’s meaner than a rattler with a toothache.
I don’t understand…why didn’t his wife just fire off two blasts from her double-barrelled shotgun to scare them away? The VP has assured me that this is all that is required.
Sounds like he’s going to have to upgrade his carry for the next time he takes on the whole basketball game.
Let’s pass the hat and get him a CZ P-09 9X19@19+1. That math should work.
In Wisconsin, it is legal to have our firearms on company property in our locked vehicles and it’s non of our employers business. Likewise when we are driving our own vehicles while conducting business activities on company time, e.g. outside sales. Where the employer does have a say is me carrying the firearm on my person while on company property, or while representing the company on a customer’s property.
Ironically, one of my biggest customers is a Hunt Club / Gun Club!
In any event, I decided many years ago, I’d always rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I keep my interest in guns and the second amendment on the down low around the office.
If had had shot one of them, he would be the next Zimmerman. With a little photoshop he would look awful white.
Chang is a White-Oriental. Evil white people always shooting the brothers.
My pack of Rhodesian Ridgebacks are on a raw diet. Like most big hounds they are food obsessed. The terrier is even worse.
Gotta love the liberal news.
“What does he think would have happened had he been carrying his pistol?”
Well, dumbf*ck, for one, he wouldn’t have been stabbed in the face.
“That could also have provoked a much more dangerous, perhaps even deadly confrontation.”
Dangerous and deadly for the other guys who like to go around stabbing people pulling into their own driveway and disrupting their craps game.
I teach permit to carry in MN. Your employer CAN NOT ban your gun from your vehicle. You can always keep your gun in your car. They are not allowed to ban guns from their parking lot.
Thank you for the correction.
Could you point us at a statute? When I was doing the research, I did not see it, but there are a great many laws, and it might not be considered a “gun law”.
Found the reference, thanks. You are correct.
http://thompsonhall.com/minnesota-gun-laws-banning-weapons-at-private-establishments/
Dont move to Kansas, Kansas sux, the deer are way little and very scarce, theyre are two turkeys and their both hens, catfishing is a waste of time. The people in Kansas are very unfriendly they barely wave at you when you drive by. Kansas has leagle carry but thats all its got. Dont move to Kansas, specially if your from California. Oklahoma blows and Kansas sucks.
He’s right about Oklahoma. The last thing you want, if you’re from California, is to move there. Those dumb ol’ Okie’s just can’t seem to get it through their heads that: Obama is a demi-god and only the evil Congress has prevented him from saving the world. They can’t comprehend that government exists to create and enforce special rights for protected people and forcefully advocate ideologies (except for those yucky ones they don’t like). Self-reliance is way too commonly taught by backward two parent (cis-genderred) families to their children. Don’t get me started about those parents that teach their kids to hunt. Those little sadistic maniacs will most likely all grow up to be mass-shooters! There are something like two churches every block for crying out loud! You should see them acting all churchy after a tornado! Those smarmy looks of love and shared pain as they feed, clothe, shelter and restore people and their lives. Did I mention that Oklahoma was the ONLY state that Obama didn’t win a single county in? You can openly carry a gun there if you have a small penis and feel the need to intimidate people! You can carry concealed death machines as well! They passed a law saying that no-carry signs don’t have the force of law! How unprogressive is that! Even if you’ve already moved there, get out quick! Just a bunch ungrateful, bitter clingers…
Oklahoma (and the Sooners) still suck, though.
Exactly. Just stay away.
And if you do move, dont move to Kansas,
He was assaulted by a mob of 15 to 30 young men gambling on his driveway.
This is why 7 bullet clip limits are reasonable and sensible for Ghost Guns that fire 30 caliber clips in half a second.
Every Moron For Gun Dysfunctionality.
Howdy Doody For Irresponsible Solutions.
Moms Demand Fascism.
Donkeycrap National Communisittee.
El Presidente Obonzo.
Aw, shucks, just turn the driveway into The Trump Casino.
With limited rounds, make sure that every bullet counts, shoot to kill and do not wait for the mob to make contact with you before you shoot. If are going to be overtaken, make sure you fire until your are out of rounds, your empty weapon cannot be used against you and run like hell.
Am I the only one who thinks driving up on THIRTY people gambling in your driveway is… shall we say… unusual?
Perhaps keep driving (park down the street… house in view) and call the wife (if she’s at home) to warn her to NOT come outside.
Then call the police.
Then stand by.
Even being armed… no way I’m driving in the maw of an OBVIOUSLY bad situation.