New York has arrested yet another tourist on gun charges. This week’s contestant is Frank Vankirk of Columbus, Ohio. Other than not knowing the law, Vankirk’s mistake was leaving one of the three guns he had with him on the nightstand in his hotel room when room service delivered his breakfast this morning. According to myfoxny.com, the licensed Ohio gun owner is facing three counts of second degree gun posession in lieu of $50,000 bond. And the case for H.R 822 continues to build.
[h/t David Brown]
Welcome to New York, Please apply these shiny Silver bracelets for visiting our great State, and not trusting the benevolent police force charged with bringing evil people such as yourself to justice.
Ok, this is getting silly. Who is paying these knuckleheads to go to New York with guns, Is it the NRA?
Next week it’ll be a pregnant woman who was worried for the life of her child.
Yeah, this is starting to get a little ridiculous.
I wonder how long it’ll be before Mike is by to tell us all this guy is getting what he deserves…
I wonder how long it will be before the Mayor states, “if the guy wasn’t arrested for gun possession, he’d be arrested for cocaine possession (or raping the help, or whatever).
The only reason this doesn’t happen in IL is because the weapon(s) is seized in lieu of arrest.
A lot of these people are from the Midwest. They need to bone up on State and City Laws.
Wrong! They need H.R 822 to pass.
I do not see this passing at this point in time.
Like so many things these days, the inability of HR 822 to pass has little to do with detached reflection or common sense, and a whole lot to do with blind partisanship.
Maybe some states and cities need to bone up on the 2nd Amendment.
Ignorance of a law, no matter how unjust you think the law may be, is no excuse.
Once a year we should have a test for our local and national representatives. If they can’t pass a test covering every law in their jurisdiction then we trim the laws until they can. It’s ridiculous that ignorance of the law is no excuse when no one knows all the laws, some laws are intentionally vague, and they discriminately enforce certain laws.
Nope! It’s called “mens rea” (Latin).
From Wikipedia:
Ignorance of the law and mens rea
The general rule under common law is that “ignorance of the law or a mistake of law is no defense to criminal prosecution.”[12] In some cases, courts have held if knowledge of a law, or the intent to break a law, is a material element of an offense a defendant may use ignorance as a defense to willfulness if his misunderstanding is in good faith:
The proliferation of statutes and regulations has sometimes made it difficult for the average citizen to know and comprehend the extent of the duties and obligations imposed by the tax laws. . . . [T]he Court almost 60 years ago interpreted the statutory term “willfully” as used in federal criminal tax statutes as carving out an exception to the traditional rule.”[13]
Crimes like tax evasion are specific intent crimes and require intent to violate the law as an element of the offense.[14] Not all offenses require specific intent, and a misreading, even in good faith, may not excuse the criminal conduct.[15] A good-faith belief that a law is unjust or unconstitutional is no excuse,[16] but “reasonable compliance upon an official statement of law, afterward determined to be invalid or erroneous” does not constitute a criminal act.[17]
I am a CCL holder and I don’t bring guns to NYC. I always check reciprocity and local carry laws before even bringing a pocket knife on trips (e.g., I went to France last year, no knives in France). I do this because I want to continue my life as a not-felon, and it’s cheaper than making bail and paying lawyers.
Comes a point, when three people have been arrested in the past month for being found with a handgun in NYC, that the mens rea defense starts to become silly. I think HR 822 is a great idea, but until then…come on people. It’s NYC. They hate guns there, unless you’re one of the Special People. That sucks in and of itself, but they’re not going to change the laws because they get tired of enforcing them.
Just remember HR 822 will not change anything in NYC. Even as an unrestricted NYS CC permit holder, I cannot carry in NYC. the STATE Permit is invalid in the borders of the city.
People really need to read HR 822 before making statements such as these. HR 822 applies to the states and political subdivisions thereof. NYC issues concealed carry permits, therefore it would have to recognize other jurisdictions’ concealed carry permits.
The interesting question is what happens with NYS permit holders. It isn’t clear if their permirs would have to be recognized by NYC or not.
I have read it, it also states all the laws in the state must be obeyed (Where I thought the NYC specific permit would still apply), be warned about bringing your carry piece with a “High capacity magazine” to NY as well. Remember you must still comply with the NYS AWB. 10 rounds or less.
Or just comply with the old wisdom of “concealed means CONCEALED”. Not sayin’, just sayin’.
Which is great and all, until the point you need to “unconceal” it. The point is that if we’ve satisfied the requirements for concealed carry once, that should be enough.
But what is the law is unethical?
The law is often ambigous and unclear. No one knows what the limits or boundaries are. Also not all laws are enforced equally. If a law is unethical or unenforcable, take it off the books.
Let us remember that liberals believe they know better than their citizens do for what’s good for them,and so thus assuming HR 822 will change the status quo is a misguided assumption.If that bill becomes law NY and other leftist states either will ban concealed carry entirely or pass restrictions so insane as to basically de facto ban it.Id imagine if the choice is to yield control of who is armed in NYC or to face a court challenge Bloomburg and Co. will choose court each time. Look at Chicago for an example,as even though it is *legal* to own a registered firearm the financial cost to be legal is higher than the price of the gun itself.
Ah, welcome to New York, where treasonous breaches of Constitutional rights are daily occurrence.
People, please, if you’re already in a true American state, stay there; don’t give your dollars and, apparently, your freedom to these cesspools of third-world oppression.
Ok come on, while I feel for these people who are going to have to deal with some serious legal problems for bringing a gun to NYC…
Is it that hard to check reciprocity agreements for the states/cities you’re going to? I do it every time I cross state borders, CCW websites have made it pretty darned easy! Oh look, took me 5 seconds to find an NRA reciprocity guide…
If you aren’t aware that there are states/counties/cities that may not honor your CCW license, you aren’t a responsible CCWer IMHO. Know the law, injust or not. Seriously, a few seconds spent on your smart phone can save you a LOT of legal trouble.
Too bad he doesn’t have a long rap sheet, they are far more forgiving to career criminals in NYC.
You’ve got to be a complete moron to take a gun to NY, and even a bigger moron if you try to claim that you didn’t know it was illegal. Anyone who travels to another state with a gun should know that states gun laws or risk going to jail. Judges in NY don’t give a $hit what you know and they have no problem locking your dumb ass up. I’d love to see HR822 pass so that we could stick it to NY and all the other no good COMMIE states who violate our rights, but it won’t be happening any time soon.
I love it when I agree with Joe. The responsibilty is the gun owner’s. Blaming NYC laws is silly.
How are HR822 and the 10th amendment, States Rights argument reconciled? I never thought of it until now, so pardon my ignorance.
The same way your 1st amendment right applies in all states. This isn’t a states’ rights issue. The USC trumps state law.
Thank you. I’ve had people try to tell me that they don’t support HR822 because it violates states rights. They then act like a jackass and try to defend this when I explain that a Constitutionally guaranteed right supersedes States Rights to make their own laws.
I’m a huge proponent of states rights, but that stops when you try to violate the Constitution.
Easily, the 10th Amendment has been reduced to a “truism” that has no independent force. The 822 harmonizes gun laws and therefore impacts interstate commerce. It’s going to be upheld.