McMichael Law Enforcement Ties, Delay in Charging Complicate Ahmaud Abery Shooting Case

Ahmaud Arbery shooting protest

Protesters march after a rally at the Glynn County Courthouse to protest the shooting of Ahmaud Arbery, Saturday, May 16, 2020, in Brunswick, Ga. (Hyosub Shin/Atlanta Journal-Constitution via AP)

By Kate Brumback and Colleen Long, AP

There was an abundance of evidence when officers arrived at the scene on a February afternoon in coastal Georgia: A man, apparently unarmed, lying on the street, soaked in blood. The suspected shooter, a shotgun, eyewitnesses. And video of the incident.

But no arrests were made in the death of 25-year-old Ahmaud Arbery for more than two months, not until after video of the shooting in Brunswick surfaced and stoked a national uproar over race relations.

Local prosecutors are now under investigation for their handling of the case. And a newly appointed investigative agency and prosecutor must untangle the criminal investigation, build a case and make up for lost time.

Among the questions: Did shooting suspect Travis McMichael and his father, Gregory, both white, get special treatment because the elder McMichael had been a longtime investigator at the Brunswick Circuit District Attorney’s office? Did investigators treat the shooting as a potential murder, or as a justifiable homicide? And might the outcome have been different if Arbery weren’t black?

___

The 911 operator sounded confused by the caller’s description of a purported crime: A man was in a house under construction.

“You said someone’s breaking into it right now?”

“No, it’s all open. It’s under construction,” the caller says, “And he’s running right now. There he goes right now.”

The dispatcher says she’ll send police, but “I just need to know what he was doing wrong.”

A second call comes in six minutes later: “I’m out here in Satilla Shores. There’s a black male running down the street.”

The operator is trying to get more details when a man yells, “Stop. … Damnit. Stop.” Then, after a pause, “Travis!”

Moments later, Arbery is shot.

Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

(Twitter via AP)

According to the police report, Gregory McMichael said he saw a person he suspected of burglary “hauling ass” down the street. He ran inside his house, calling for his son Travis. The two grabbed their guns, hopped into a pickup truck and chased him.

Gregory McMichael told police they wanted to talk to Arbery and tried to corner him, but he began to “violently attack” Travis McMichael, the report says. The two fought over the shotgun, and Arbery was shot. The McMichaels claimed self-defense.

The father and son were questioned, and police called the district attorney’s office, where Gregory McMichael had worked for more than two decades, for legal advice. They were released.

Meanwhile, Arbery’s mother got a call from an investigator.

“He went on to say that Ahmaud was involved in a burglary, and in the midst of the burglary he was confronted by the homeowner, and in the midst of that confrontation, there was a fight over the firearm and Ahmaud was shot and killed,” Wanda Cooper-Jones told The Associated Press.

She repeated that story to her family.

___

Law enforcement in Brunswick has a checkered history, and over the past decade police have faced numerous lawsuits and increasing scrutiny.

In 2010, two officers fired eight bullets into an unarmed woman’s car after a chase, killing her. An investigation found neither of the officers checked on her condition afterward — instead their in-car cameras caught them comparing their shooting skills.

One of those officers later killed his estranged wife and her friend before dying in a standoff with police.

Just days after Arbery’s killing, Glynn County Police Chief John Powell and three former high-ranking officers were indicted in what investigators described as a cover-up of an officer’s sexual relationship with an informant.

A November 2019 memo from the county manager described how Powell had “inherited a culture of cronyism, outdated policies, lack of appropriate training, and loss of State certification.”

The memo also described how supervisors had failed to document or investigate misconduct allegations and detailed a “culture of cover-ups, failure to supervise, abuse of power, and lack of accountability within the Glynn County Police Department” before Powell arrived.

Now, the version of Arbery’s death told to Cooper-Jones is under dispute, and authorities are again under scrutiny.

___

Officers in a small town calling the DA for guidance in a fatal shooting case is not unusual and would normally be uncontroversial. But there’s disagreement over what happened next.

Peter Murphy, an elected commissioner in Glynn County, alleged that officers were hesitant to arrest the McMichaels after the DA’s office told them it wasn’t necessary.

“I’m just wondering, what other investigation occurred over the next two months really?” Murphy said.

The district attorney’s office has called that a “malicious lie” and says it was police who raised the justified shooting angle.

Police say they were told the day of the shooting that more follow-up was needed but the McMichaels weren’t flight risks and could go home. A second prosecutor was brought in after the first recused herself because Gregory McMichael had worked for her, and he quickly decided no charges were necessary. He was eventually removed over his own conflict of interest — his son works at the Brunswick Circuit.

J. Tom Morgan, a former metro Atlanta district attorney who is now a criminal defense lawyer, said it would be a “big misstep” for the DA to advise against arrests if officers decided there was probable cause that a crime had occurred.

“I can’t imagine saying ‘stand down’ if I’m not there personally to talk to people,” Morgan said. “If police believe they have probable cause, I’m not going to second-guess them from my back porch.”

In any homicide, it’s important to interview witnesses immediately while the facts are still fresh in their minds and before they’ve had a chance to coordinate stories. If that was delayed because officers were told not to make arrests, it could be problematic, he said.

Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip Stinson said there is also a tendency to treat a crime scene differently if a current or former law enforcement officer is involved, as was the case with Gregory McMichael.

It could make it harder for prosecutors to bring a successful murder case, and easier for defense lawyers to argue that the crime scene is tainted by potential prosecutor misconduct that’s under investigation by Georgia authorities.

It looks like investigators started with an assumption it was a justified shooting, Stinson said.

“Because of that — because of all of the assumptions that are made, all of the steps in the investigation that are not taken — they made the job much more difficult for the AG’s office,” he said.

___

The case seemed to have stalled until May 5, when a video was posted to the website of a local radio station.

The shaky footage, taken by a man listed in the police report as a witness, shows Arbery, dressed in shorts and a white top, running from the McMichaels. The driver’s side door is open. Travis McMichael and Arbery appear to struggle over the gun. Gregory McMichael hops from the back of the truck. Arbery is shot and falls to the ground.

It doesn’t show Arbery with a firearm, nor have police said they recovered one.

The footage seemed to refute Gregory McMichael’s version and prompted widespread outrage and calls for justice. The case drew national attention, including from Jay-Z and President Donald Trump, who said he was “disturbed.”

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation took over the case. Investigators canvassed the neighborhood, talking to some people who had previously been interviewed and others who hadn’t.

They arrested both McMichaels on charges of aggravated assault and murder May 7, less than 48 hours later.

This photo combo of images taken Thursday, May 7, 2020, and provided by the Glynn County Detention Center, in Georgia, show Gregory McMichael, left, and his son Travis McMichael. The two have been charged with murder in the February shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery, whom they had pursued in a truck after spotting him running in their neighborhood. (Glynn County Detention Center via AP)

GBI director Vic Reynolds said there was clear probable cause and that local authorities had done “a good investigation, a thorough investigation.”

___

The legal case now stretches beyond coastal Georgia, with the FBI weighing potential federal hate crime charges. And more evidence is emerging.

A third prosecutor who had the case when the video surfaced was removed after the attorney general said it had grown in “size and scope,” and a fourth prosecutor from a bigger district has now been appointed. Cobb County District Attorney Joyette M. Holmes, one of seven black district attorneys in Georgia, is overseeing the prosecution at the direction of the state attorney general.

The first DA, Jackie Johnson, has defended her office’s involvement. So has the second DA.

“I’m confident an investigation is going to show my office did what it was supposed to and there was no wrongdoing on our part,” Johnson told the AP this week.

Asked if anyone in her office told police not to arrest the McMichaels or suggested the shooting may have been justified, Johnson said, “Absolutely not.”

More video has emerged of a man inside a house under construction — the home where the 911 caller reported seeing someone shortly before Arbery was shot. But the owner’s lawyer has told AP and others the house was wide open, and nothing was ever taken.

The McMichaels remain in jail and their attorneys caution against a rush to judgment.

For now the case is stalled once again, with courts largely closed due to the coronavirus pandemic and no way to call a grand jury until mid-June at the earliest.

 

comments

  1. avatar Cruzo1981 says:

    Its funny how these cases always involve tremendous amounts of stupid on both sides and a criminal past history in one or both parties’ past…

    1. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

      I was going to repost my question to everyone from the big thread but, interestingly it and some other comments I made are gone.
      But this gist of that is this:
      Would you interject yourself into a situation where someone may or may not have committed a burglary of a half built house where no one was home and and you have no idea if any property was stolen? You break into my house while I am home chances are you get into a shootout whether that’s what you came for or not. I will defend myself or my family or my property. I will not draw down on a guy running down the road and try a citizens arrest and possibly have it escalate to a point that I have to kill someone or that I may be killed over an empty house . At best, you have have apprehended a burglar of a house under construction. At worst has several options. One is that you shoot him and he lives. If he’s guilty of burglary, then you get to spend all you have defending yourself from his lawsuit. If you shoot him and he dies then you get to spend 2 and a half years in jail while awaiting trial for murder. In the meantime your house gets repossessed unless you have a very understanding employer who keeps paying you awaiting trial. If you’re found not guilty, great, rebuild your life if you have time. If you’re found guilty well good luck in a Ga prison as that guy who murdered the guy jogging unless you want to get some AB tattoos to keep you safe. The other option is you kill the guy. If it turns out he was burglarizing unoccupied dwellings and stealin things congratulations, you’ve killed your your guy. If it turns out he was just a jogger, well congratulations, you’ve just murdered your first guy.
      I don’t see any upside to try to detain, perform a citizens arrest or in general pull a weapon on anyone who is not an immediate threat to me or others. Call the cops. If the handle it, you’ve done your duty. If they don’t, that’s not on you. But that’s just me. It’s not the killing I object to, it’s the consequences.

      1. avatar Ron says:

        Yep. This what we pay police for. Deal with this kind of crap and domestic abuse. Neither situations you want to inject yourself in on your own.

        Many here hate the police. I say this to them: How about instead of taking matters into your own hands call them and make them deal with this shit so you don’t have to. It’s why they get paid after all.

        1. avatar 9x39 says:

          I’m just here to point out, over the last year, I’ve reported to law enforcement twice the ongoing situation. What did they do? Bupkis, nada, less than nothing. Audio, photographic, and video surveillance documentation on hand they were told. Their reply “We don’t need to see that”. Oh, & they had the temerity to falsify the report, intentionally misquoting me in an extremely misleading manner. Throwing in “quotes” I never uttered, and downright lying about what was said. Thank the heavens for bodycam to refute those falsehoods. That’s little comfort right now, with all this hanging perilously overhead.

          Now, let me ask you. They didn’t deal with the situation, so who exactly does that leave it up to? Can’t say anything more on it, ongoing case is ongoing. I don’t hate cops, but let me tell you, between this and other interactions heretofore…

          Once this all air’s out in court, the LEO community is going to be after me after taking these shit bags to task publicly. Just how do you think they’re going to react, hmm? Consequently, I’m making plans to move far away from here, as soon as the court shit storm is over. I’m kinda stressed, I’m quite sure you can imagine.

          Point being, don’t take everything at face value. Prima facie can be deceiving.

        2. avatar Ron says:

          9×39, you’re one of the two guys in this whole story!?

        3. avatar Chris Morton says:

          * It’s not the job of police to protect you as an individual. Protect YOURSELF or don’t get protected AT ALL.
          * It’s the job of the police to investigate crimes and apprehend suspects.

          I’m not a cop, I don’t want to be a cop, I don’t want to do the things that cops do, I don’t want people to think I”m a cop.

          Break into my home while I’m here, and you’re getting shot until you’re no longer a threat.
          Break into somebody else’s unoccupied, incomplete home and I’m calling the police.

          Whether the shooting was justified or not, why do the job of the police FOR them, WITHOUT any of the protections (some of them manifestly unjust, like qualified immunity) they enjoy, and when there was no immediate danger to a person? Sounds pretty dumb… or suspicious to me.

        4. avatar 9x39 says:

          Yeah Ron, I am. I’m also the only one with solid audio, video, and photographic evidence supporting, and nothing but hot air on the other side. Remember that.

        5. avatar 9x39 says:

          Wait, you were asking if I’m involved in the McMichael case? No, definitely not. What I posted, that is just my personal troubles with LE & the legal system, anecdotally used to illustrate my point. That point, is Edgar Allan Poe’s, “Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see.”

      2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        With those two guys, it was location, location, and location.

        In their ‘minds’ (*cough*), their ‘perp’ had the audacity to do it on their street, so they were gonna ‘take care’ of it…

      3. avatar strych9 says:

        I’m personally of the opinion that it doesn’t matter much whether or not what these two geniuses did was legal or not. It was stupid beyond belief.

        I don’t usually support the death penalty but in this case I’ll make an exception. The State of Georgia should strap both these fat morons down to a gurney and give each idiot a Drano injection live on TV.

        Such is the penalty, or at least it should be for violation of the Clean Gene Pool Act.

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          They could be 99.999% European like Warren. Why would you want that to go away from us? Actually, every European has a few percent of African DNA.

        2. avatar Ron says:

          … So what’s your point? The fact that humanity evolved in Africa? That’s not some new or novel concept. It’s been around for quite sometime. Native Americans have a fair amount of Asian DNA, and one day Martians will have a great deal of earthling DNA.

        3. avatar Chief Censor says:

          @Ron

          I’m pointing out that everyone is related.

          White people have black people DNA. Without that African DNA they wouldn’t be the Europeans they are today. And without European DNA Asians wouldn’t be who they are today. So called Native Americans are Asians who populated the Americas.

          We are all relatives. There is no pure “race.” Separating people into colors is political.

        4. avatar strych9 says:

          I don’t see what race or general human genetics has to do with this.

          The Clean Gene Pool Act is colorblind and is used to clean the stupid from the entire species.

      4. avatar Dude says:

        The short answer is no. Playing devil’s advocate for the longer answer requires bringing up something that you left out. These guys didn’t feel like this was just some random dude running from a crime. Right or wrong, they felt like it was the same person that was regularly stealing from the neighborhood, and they said enough, we’re going to detain this guy with the threat of violence. It was stupid, and it went from bad to worse.

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          They assumed it was the black man that stole from their white neighborhood. It couldn’t be the numerous white people trespassing at the same location.

          There was only two things stolen.

          I don’t believe the killer [Travis] when he says his gun was stolen from his open truck after he left his gun sitting on the seat. Larry English says he doesn’t know when his fishing line was taken and from what location.

          Arbery was blamed because he is black and poor. They assumed the black jogger was “casing the joint.” Why else would a black man run through a white neighborhood?

        2. avatar Dude says:

          Was this the first time a black person was running through this neighborhood? Did they say they thought he was casing the joint because he was black or because there were prior burglaries or he fit the description of someone seen there before? I think it’s bad practice to assume anything.

      5. avatar Sulla says:

        Would I do it? Maybe I would if I gave a damn about my community.

        Highly controversial viewpoint, I know.

      6. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Klaus, these guys are claiming to be stupider than I can even believe. And backing up each other’s claims! “Yup! Sure enough! He is that stupid, hell, he’s even MORE stupid!” Doesn’t stop me from doubting them, I think they are a rare breed today, actual, no-shit racists, were just going out on a fun local safari to bag some wildlife.

    2. avatar Someone says:

      It’s even funnier how the article goes into all the problems in the police department, but somehow omits to mention the criminal past of the deceased, or that he was seen in the site before. Honest oversight I bet, no attempt to rise racial tensions at all.

      1. avatar st381183 says:

        Arbery has a minor criminal past, however the corruption is very serious and quite possibly a contributing factor in trying to let the McMichaels off scot free. Whether he took a tool or not, it definitely didn’t demand a death sentence.

        1. avatar Cuteandfuzzybunnies. says:

          3 DAs where corrupt ?no. These guys have likely committed a stupid but justified homicide.

          They haven’t t been charged with murder. The DA even admitted it was a defensive shooting by charging felony murder. I don’t see how she will prove the underlying felony she charged however. The evidence against it it substantial.

  2. avatar Never relax around JOGGERS says:

    TTAG: where it’s ok for a 11yo girl to open carry an AR 15 condition 1 into a courthouse, but it’s not ok for white guys to defend themselves against people who break into houses and “jog” with a hammer in boots.

    1. avatar Debbie W. says:

      Two tough guys with guns park their truck and wait for a man to jog by so they can make a citizen’s arrest without any tangible evidence that is required to strip a man of his right of passage, etc. And worse the buffoons actually thought the jogger would comply with their insanity.
      Tough guy with the shotgun persues jogger who goes left from the truck and off camera and is followed by tough guy with shotgun. Tough guy and jogger wrestle back toward truck in camera range where tough guy with shotgun shoots jogger very dead.
      There have been whitewashers who think the elder McMchael has standing because of his numerous years in LE. No matter who you are maintaining credibility is a day by day hour by hour minute by minute endeavor. One screwup and it all goes down the crapper and you can land in jail right alongside the McMichaels…or at least looking stupid supporting those two buffoons.

      1. avatar Zero miles of wall. says:

        There is literal video of him breaking into a house.

        You can see the jogger attack a legally armed man.

        What is wrong with you lady? You watch too much TV.

        1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

          By legal definition, I’m doubtful this could be called a “house.” Not even a “building” for purposes of the statutes.
          And I’ll ask you, what did he break when he broke into the house? Or was he merely trespassing at best?
          As a kid, houses under construction became forts on the weekends.
          I must have “broke into” a dozen of them.

        2. avatar George Washington says:

          Exactly….. as sad as it might seem to some, the “jogger” went for the gun…. WRONG MOVE HOMEBOY….

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          Um… Tom. You’re wrong. If it has 4 walls and a roof, it’s a building. If it’s a building designed for human habitation, it’s a dwelling. The Georgia precedent is clear on both points. The fact that there was some interior construction going on is immaterial.

        4. avatar Kendahl says:

          Tom: Were you planning to steal from any of those houses? In Georgia, that’s all that separates what you did from felony burglary. (In my opinion, their burglary law is overly broad.)

        5. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          Who was at imminent threat of death or great bodily harm if he did burglarize a half finished house?
          You are one of those people who are looking to shoot someone. There’s a couple of ways that goes. My bet is that you’re the kind that shits themselves when you see what you’ve done.

        6. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

          Not “legally armed” if he’s committing assault by pointing it at the jogger first.

        7. avatar pwrserge says:

          Serpent, please indicate where on the video the gun was pointed at the “jogger” PRIOR to him charging the people trying to lawfully arrest him. I’ll wait.

        8. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          So you want to kill a man for breaking into a half-finished unoccupied house? Who poses no threat to you or anyone else?

          That’s the thinking of someone who’s never had to kill someone or a true psychopath.

          I think many people here really don’t know what it means to take someones life so I’m leaning toward the former tough guy.

        9. avatar tdiinva says:

          Well, the owner of the unfinished house said nothing was taken and the McMichaels murdered him. It kind of guts the narrative.

        10. avatar pwrserge says:

          Way to strawman the argument cunt. If you break into a dwelling, I fully support arresting your ass. If you try to attack the people arresting you, I fully support shooting your ass until you stop.

        11. avatar pwrserge says:

          Actually, tdiinva, the original report from the owner indicated he was missing $2500 in fishing gear. It wasn’t until XiNN threatened to dox him and his family that he started singing the party line.

        12. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

          Who keeps $2500 in fishing gear in an open house under construction???

        13. avatar pwrserge says:

          There are neighborhoods where it’s safe to not lock doors. What’s your point? The original investigation had him saying one thing, and now XiNN has him saying something else. Who do you believe?

        14. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          @Tom – When I was in the 5th and 6th grade I helped Mr Thompson build his house during the day and I would burglarize it at night. It was across the street from us. Best hiding place ever.

          I’m glad he didn’t shoot me or I would have never gotten that job framing houses in the summers of my sophmore or junior year.

        15. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          In some areas, homes under construction have a special designation. Florida has such a law :

          810.09 Trespass on property other than structure or conveyance.—

          http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0810/Sections/0810.09.html

        16. avatar tdiinva says:

          I doubt he stored his fishing gear in an unfinished house. He isn’t backing you up, get over it.

        17. avatar Dude says:

          “When I was in the 5th and 6th grade I helped Mr Thompson build his house during the day and I would burglarize it at night. It was across the street from us. Best hiding place ever.”

          Did you just hang out or did you actually steal from someone that you worked for? If you stole from him, then you didn’t deserve that job. Neighborhood kids will always hang out in a house under construction. I did it all of the time. No big deal.

        18. avatar neiowa says:

          What moron told you (or Abery) that it is OK to invade the property of another? You cross the property line, without an invitation, and you’re WRONG. And you set a chain of events in motion.

        19. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          @Dude – Of course I didn’t steal anything. All us kids would just hang out there.

        20. avatar Dude says:

          Oh okay. I did the same in many houses under construction. Some were almost finished and they didn’t even lock the doors. When I hear the term burglarize, I think of illegal activity in addition to entering the structure.

        21. avatar st381183 says:

          You are out of your f’in mind. Even IF Arbery stole property and they were justified, just because you can doesn’t mean you should. This will cost them their freedom, the money, their lives, and their reputations all over a what? Arbery did t steal anything and the home owner didn’t care.

        22. avatar LarryinTX says:

          The jogger *attacked* a man who had just SHOT him! For no reason!

      2. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

        @Serge I can see $2500 worth of rods alone from where I’m sitting here in my garage right now. I leave my garage door open at night sometimes (only when I forget though).

        So is $2500 your price to kill a man?

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          I believe I should be able to shoot someone that is stealing from me and refuses to drop the property when I tell them to and inform them I will shoot if they don’t. But I am one of the very few that think this. At the end of the day, America is not Brazil.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          In quite a few places you CAN do exactly that.

        3. avatar Dude says:

          You can’t shoot people over property (which includes pets) in most jurisdictions, but in some you can. If they were just going to execute the guy in this situation, then they probably would have done that before he was within reaching distance.

        4. avatar Kendahl says:

          pwrserge: The only place I’m aware of that permits deadly force to recover personal property is Texas and there are significant hoops you must jump through to keep it legal. You can use less than deadly force to recover property and, if the thief escalates to deadly force to resist you, you can use deadly force because, at that point, you are defending your life and health rather than the property. As a practical matter, it’s going to be pretty expensive property that costs more to replace than a good lawyer will charge to keep you out of trouble even though your actions were technically legal.

          Andrew Branca repeats endlessly that going hands on exposes you to a greater than zero risk of losing the fight or spending the rest of your life in prison. He says an innocent person faces a 10% chance of being convicted if his lawyer can’t keep him out of court because there is that much human error in the system.

    2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      Not wearing boots. I’ve seen videos of several people in that house, white and black.
      The father and the first DA now have a problem in that he was allowed to work as a cop with out being certified.
      Additionally there is an email that has been released that shows the local law responding to one of the residents stating that any trouble and they should contact the father(not a cop)

      From bad to worse this case gets.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        You can’t just throw a man a gun and a badge then call him a deputy. This is not Hollywood fantasies.

        1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          “You can’t just throw a man a gun and a badge then call him a deputy.”

          In some areas, sheriffs can do *exactly* that, for a limited time frame…

        2. avatar Chief Censor says:

          @Geoff

          Far as I remember, that is only during an emergency, not for dealing with trespassers on someone else’s property.

    3. avatar Ron says:

      It’s been long established that vigilantism and taking the jaw into your own hands is illegal and for good reason. Not that it doesn’t “feel good” when vigilantes get it right, especially against someone who deserves it, but they often don’t get it right. This is why we don’t create laws simply because they “feel good”.

    4. avatar Huntmaster says:

      Why do you guys keep trying to put smoke on the field. He wasn’t wearing boots according to the coroner, no hammer was found and there wasn’t any evidence of anybody breaking into a house and these guys had no knowledge of that anyway. Who are you shilling for?

  3. avatar American Patriot says:

    Every time it’s a white on black it’s a race thing & a hate crime. But……if it’s one of the hundreds of black on white….there’s nothing to see, there is no race mentioned & it’s not on the news…..Hmmmmm

    1. avatar George Washington says:

      Typical…… you need look no further than the connections in the media, banking systems and large corporations to find the problem….
      Just open your eyes….. that’s ALL you need to do to find the REAL culprits…

    2. avatar Cale15 says:

      Because black people are more racist than white people! I got black friends or even tell you so. No I don’t agree with them chasing him down and it wasn’t their property but then again if you’re stupid enough to run up to somebody that has a gun and they tried punching them and taking it you deserve to get shot black white or otherwise! When it comes down to is a bad choice of decisions on both sides!

      1. avatar American Patriot says:

        I agree!

      2. avatar Chief Censor says:

        He couldn’t shoot all three like John Wick because gun control banned him from owning a firearm. He was forced to use his hands to stand his ground.

        Gun control is racist. Gun free zones need to be banned. No permit to carry.

        1. avatar Ron says:

          How did gun control prevent him from getting a firearm? A handgun and carry permit are very easy to get in GA, and no race isn’t an exclusion. I lived in GA for many years and many black folks had a carry permit.

        2. avatar Chief Censor says:

          @Ron

          He got in trouble for carrying a handgun in a gun free zone when he was 19. He ran away when a security guard tried to check if he had a gun. He got in more trouble for running away. He got a few felonies and years of probation.

  4. avatar Debbie W. says:

    Every time I see the photo of those two jailbirds it reminds of Deliverance and Dueling Banjos.

    1. avatar You should be ashamed fat Deborah says:

      They are innocent men.

      1. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

        They won’t be once they get to Reidsville.

      2. avatar Debbie W. says:

        See my above post…applies to you shorty.

        1. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          When they get to Reidsville they will be told “you sure have a purty mouth” within 24 hours.

    2. avatar The Truth About Pics In The Media says:

      The do that on purpose. They show the worst possible photos of the people the media doesn’t like and the best possible photos of the people the media does like.

      The media lightened George Zimmerman’s skin tone to make him appear white and showed Trayvon’s suit photo instead of any of his street fighting pics he posted to numerous locations online.

      They did the same thing with Michael Brown, showing a young suit photo and not any of his “gangsta” online badass photos.

      So of course for these two they pick the deliverance mug shots. And for the running man it is a nice suit picture.

      And you saying what you said is no different than someone saying that Arbery being black means he looks like a criminal.

      1. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

        You think TTAG uses flattering pictures of anti-2A types? You seen the Biden or Watts pictures here?

    3. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      @Debbie Easy there! that movie was made here in and around Lake Jocassee.
      The last scene is the Old Mt. Carmel Baptist Church graveyard being exhumed. I’ve dove on it, usually sits at 130′ full pond. Silty and can’t stay long unless you are sporting doubles, but you can get decent pictures of remaining headstones and empty plots. Some are still there when next of kin could not be found.
      lol..banjos all the time here.

    4. avatar tdiinva says:

      That was my thought. Two guys who look like they are in Deliverence try to stop me I am going to turn and go the other direction. If they chase after me I am going to get ready to defend myself.

  5. avatar The truth about joggers says:

    I love how quickly the conservatives caved to the lynch mob.

    God help you if you’re ever attacked by a “jogger”.

    1. avatar Debbie W. says:

      Not so fast democRat drama queen…Can you supply the stats for joggers attacking gasbags brandishing firearms?

    2. avatar Arandom Dude says:

      I love how you apologists are acting like the McMicheals were just out minding their own business when Arbery assaulted them for no reason at all. The fact is that they chased him down once, he ran away, they chased him down again, pointed guns at him, then shot him when he resisted. All to enact a citizen’s arrest when the closest thing to a crime he had committed was (at worst) a misdemeanor, and Georgia law clearly states that citizen’s arrests are only for felonies.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Don’t give up your day job kiddo. You clearly have never read the Georgia statute.

        1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

          The statute clearly states that intention to commit a crime is a part of a burglary offense.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          … and no jurisdiction on earth requires one to prove every element of a crime prior to arrest. Reasonable and probable suspicion of intent is sufficient. Flight is indicative of illegal intent.

        3. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          You should quit your day job and become a homicidal maniac. I think you have the aptitude for it until you see some blood. The I think you’ll change your mind.

        4. avatar pwrserge says:

          Ok commie… Off to the helicopter with you.

        5. avatar tdiinva says:

          False. According to Georgia Law all conditions must be met.

          See Colion Noir’s last video. He is a member of the Bar. You, on the otherhand, are a Ukrainian.

        6. avatar pwrserge says:

          He’s a member of the Texas bar… that qualifies him to do jack shit in Georgia.

          Please cite one case where an arrest was ruled unlawful due to a lack of proof of intent at the time of arrest… I’ll wait.

        7. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

          Jogging through a neighborhood at midday is hardly “flight” from the scene of a supposed crime.

        8. avatar pwrserge says:

          Not what the surveillance tape shows. Try harder commie. I see a man booking from a dwelling he had no lawful reason to enter when confronted.

        9. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          @Sergie
          My grandfather killed commies in 1919. My father killed commies from 1941-45 and again in 1949. My brother killed commies in 67-69. I killed commies in 1977-78.

          Fuck you.

        10. avatar pwrserge says:

          Ok old fart… Your delusions do not change videos evidence or the statutes of the state of Georgia.

        11. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          @Sergei
          “Not what the surveillance tape shows. Try harder commie. I see a man booking from a dwelling he had no lawful reason to enter when confronted.”

          So you’d kill him for that? Really? I can’t believe that.

          Really?

        12. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

          “I see a man booking from a dwelling he had no lawful reason to enter when confronted.” – Apparently what the McMichael’s saw as well. However, the statute requires reasonable AND probable grounds, not mere speculation. Is it reasonable, viewing the video, that he probably entered hoping to find something of sufficient value to steal, but that was small and light enough to jog away with? Seems a bit of a stretch even to get the felony, let alone “the offender is escaping or attempting to escape.”

          Will make for an interesting court case.

        13. avatar Chief Censor says:

          You were arguing citizen’s arrest because the corrupt DA was arguing that. Now you moved onto arguing he was deputized, thus a law enforcement officer that is not restricted to the citizen’s arrest law and has qualified immunity.

          As I said days ago, these men were not qualified to be law enforcement. The father would have been fired if not for the corrupt DA that gave him a wavier. They didn’t even argue citizen’s arrest, the suspects argued self defense. Greg got the video from Roddy to give to a radio station for them to “leak” the video on behalf of the self defense narrative they were creating. Now they are changing their story to blame the police department for “deputizing” their illegal lynch mob into a posse. Greg was forced into retirement because he was not trained/qualified to be a cop. Once Greg was no longer working as a so called cop at the end of 2019, he decided to call up the police and ask them to tell Larry English to inform him about trespassers so his “posse” could take care of it.

          Larry did not answer the texts from officer Rash and did not interact with the McMichaels. He did not give them access to the cameras nor gave them videos. Larry only gave Diego Perez access and only asked Diego to watch over the property.

          You said they had a Facebook group. Why would they need a Facebook group when Larry is feeding the video directly to Greg? Why would they need to contact the police to contact Larry and had over Greg’s number? If Larry had a Facebook group where he was posting no one would need to go through all that trouble and get a corrupt police department to get involved.

          Why do they need a lynch mob when they have evidence against Arbery? Didn’t they know Arbery from the year prior? Didn’t Greg finally have those police powers he was lacking for nearly a decade? Why is the government now looking into setting free anyone that Greg helped put in prison? Why couldn’t Greg write up a search or arrest warrant with his police powers?

          You do know there was at least one other black male on that property staring in October? Most of the trespasser were white. Larry contacted the police directly to report those trespassers, he never reported stealing. The tattooed black male that showed up around October could have been the one to steal from Travis’ trunk and Larry’s boat. The media haven’t talked about that black male since they released the censored videos of him days ago.

          Apparently the story I heard, that came from Diego, was not accurate. The 911 call from Travis tells the truth about that incident weeks prior. Travis sure sounded scared of the black man. His breathing didn’t sound normal and he was imaging the man armed. Then again, his mug shot look like he breaths like that all the time.

        14. avatar Chief Censor says:

          Some more context.

        15. avatar Ron says:

          Klaus was your father on the Ost Front? Just wondering, seems like an interesting story if you care to elaborate. 4 years fighting in *that* war, on *that* front has got to be an intense story.

        16. avatar tdiinva says:

          Yeah, but knows how read the law better than some Ukrainian racist.

        17. avatar Arandom Dude says:

          1) Yeah I have read the Georgia law.
          2) “Flight is indicative of illegal intent.” So if I, as a private citizen, see a guy do something vaguely sketchy but not all that serious then run away, I can run him down, point a gun at him, and shoot him if he resists? Because that’s what happened here.

          Your move jogga.

      2. avatar Chris Mallory says:

        I had a house built several years ago. After we moved in, everyone who lives on the road would stop and talk about how they had repeatedly walked through the place while it was being built. It never occurred to me to shotgun the 90 year old mother of my daughter’s cross country coach. She even took her dog in with her several times.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Yes… clearly they set out to shoot him… That’s why they stoped almost a hundred feet ahead of him and didn’t fire until homeboy tried to grab the gun.

        2. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          Some friends and our girlfriends hit another one of our friends hot tub in the half finished house. At the house warming party he was pointing irls t out. We were like “yea, we know, we and the girls were in it as soon as it was installed. ”

          His wife was a little pissed.

        3. avatar Huntmaster says:

          If you approach someone for conversation, your pistol remains holstered. That kind of falls under gun etiquette. If you have a long gun it stays in the scabbard, or slung over your shoulder. Same thing. You don’t jump out of a truck with it in your hands. I was taught you unload your shotgun before you even climb over a fence. Approaching someone with a long gun in your hands is just about the most hostile posture you can assume short of pulling up in a tank. Arbery had three choices. Fight, flight or or simply hope they didn’t shoot him. Tactically, I think he made the best choice, none of the odds were in his favor. Travis old boy, you own this.

    3. avatar TweetyRex says:

      Reality check here.
      When I held (several) someone’s at shotgun point, no one ever got close enough that they got to wrestle with me over the shotgun. The police cane and arrested several people and NOBODY GOT SHOT! The whole point of a gun is Range!! If you’re going to walk up and poke them with it, you’re better off with a ….. well, ANYTHING BUT A GUN!
      They were in a motor vehicle, he was jogging down the street, and they had a phone. CALL THE BLOODY POLICE!! Follow him until they arrive. Problem solved.
      If I were jogging down the street and was attacked by a man with a shotgun, and he was stupid enough to get close enough to touch me with it, he would shortly be eating it. And if someone stepped in to help him (as in I was being attacked by multiple assailants!), I would do my level best to make a whole stack of bodies.
      As a white, conservative gun owner who tries to be as colorblind as possible, these two guys are idiots who have made MY life harder, because I will get tarred with the same racist brush.

  6. avatar Prndll says:

    Ok, are we to have another riot LA style?

    Meanwhile, no justice for the unjust. The Clintons, Obama, Pelosi, Feinstein, shifty Shiff, along with certain state governors get a pass.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Trump said he would lock her up… He keeps his promises… Not!

      1. avatar Prndll says:

        No one else has either.

  7. avatar Truckman says:

    why in the world would somebody attack another man when he was holding a shotgun on you sounds like somebody did not want to talk to the law

    1. avatar Hasaf says:

      I can understand fighting the apparent lynch mob.

      I suspect you would do the same if you were in a spot that gave the two bad options of:
      1. Fight, having just a small chance of survival, or
      2. Not fight, with no chance of survival

      You might say that those were not the only two options, but did the victim know and understand that?
      The reasonable man standard is not easily applied when engaging in an activity, like jogging, whose purpose is to push the participant to the point of exhaustion.

    2. avatar enuf says:

      Some possibilities:

      Fear, “Fight or Flight” response. An act of desperation trying to save your life when you believe you are about to be murdered.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        If they were “about to murder” him, he would have been dead before they got out of the truck. Homeboy’s paranoid racist reaction to a lawful arrest does not make shooting him unlawful.

        1. I’ve read every single comment down to this point. PWRSERGE is responding beautifully to the bullshit being slung around. I think of a reply and scroll a little further and there are the exact words I was thinking. Power on PWRSERGE!
          One point I will add, most counterpoints speak the truth up and until one important distinction and then the lie comes out to back their narrative. If they are correct, they shouldn’t have to change a fact into a lie to strengthen their argument. One can disagree on who or what crime was committed, but I disregard the entire argument when they include unfounded lies.

      2. avatar Chief Censor says:

        There are three things people do in such situations: freeze, run and fight.

        What are kids taught to do during a school shooting? Run, hide, fight. What happens when you are caught out in the open and can’t run? Well, investigations show people either freeze or fight, most simply freeze.

    3. avatar Cale15 says:

      Bingo!!!!

    4. avatar Chris Mallory says:

      Attack the thugs brandishing weapons at you or hope you can outrun a load of buckshot being fired by said thugs. Which one do you choose?

    5. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Sounds like a person that is human, thus limited by how fast he can run from a bullet.

  8. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    We had something similar happen here years ago. Must have been around ’92. I was attending the academy part time and working communications full-time. Walked into work one afternoon and the sheriff was there and the radio was blowing up. WTF? We had a 911 call. Caller, “There’s a nigger breaking into my neighbors house. You better get out here or I’m going to kill him.” On a recorded line. When Dale got there the suspect was dead. After the call he had armed himself with a Beretta 92 and confronted the suspect. A struggle for the weapon ensued. A round discharged missing both. The suspect disengaged. Caller shot him in the head. I asked the sheriff if we were going to send it to the SAO. He said, “No. That son-of-a-bitch (suspect) has been a pain in our ass for years. We’re going to buy him (shooter) more bullets.” Not long after the civil clerk called me to come to her office and pick an order for involuntary commitment to pass on to patrol. When I saw the name I told Mrs. L. she could send it back to the courthouse. L. “What do you mean? The judge wants this guy picked up!” Me, “We are picking him up. He was killed committing a burglary.” L. “Oh! I guess we can send it back.” Seems the deceased had been recently been released from DOC. After stealing everything of value from his mother and sister to support his crack habit. He then began burglaries in the neighborhood. His mother and sister were petitioning the court for the ex parte when he met his demise. It barely made the local news.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      I went to jury duty on a case of burglary against two people. The white girl had a drug problem, her boyfriend helped her steal from homes. Even white people with drug problems will steal from their own neighborhoods or do so stupid stuff for money.

  9. avatar Texican says:

    Arbery took nothing and was running. No laws broken. That’s all we know for sure. And that he’s dead. How many of us would do nothing if confronted by a man with a shotgun for no apparent reason as we’re taking a run? In my view, he should have gone all in if he was going to fight. If there is no evidence of Arbery committing a crime then the men who accosted him are the criminals and deserve their fate.

    1. avatar Truth says:

      Trespassing. Not sure why you all conveniently forget that one.

      I don’t agree with what the two idiots did but facts are facts and he was criminally trespassing

      1. avatar enuf says:

        Except that the owner of the property has stated very clearly he objects to the killers going after the victim. He said his camera had caught people at the construction site many times, including just kids. At no time has anything been taken or damaged.

        He also made it very clear that no one but himself had seen the video until after the murder.

      2. avatar Texican says:

        It’s not trespassing to go into an under construction home and look around if there are not any “No Trespassing” signs.

        1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Texican, that depends on jurisdiction. If I recall correctly in Florida trespass on a construction site is a felony. No signs or fence needed. I know theft from a construction site is a felony. Even a single nail. Bottom line. If it ain’t yours, don’t fuck with it.

      3. avatar Chief Censor says:

        To criminally trespass you need to be told by the owner to leave and refuse or you the owner needs to put up no trespassing signs and make it hard to enter.

        Guess what I got on my gate?

    2. avatar Kendahl says:

      Not necessarily. Georgia’s law on burglary is very (overly?) broad. Trespassing with the intent to steal is sufficient. The place need not be secured. You’re still guilty even if you couldn’t find anything worth taking.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        You need intent to steal. You can’t prove intent unless the guy is seen putting something in his pocket then putting it back. Or has pulled into the driveway, opened the back of his truck, walks in to grab the machines and tools when he is seen. You can’t prove intent when a person simply walks around and looks.

        So far there is no evidence Arbery intended to steal. Every additional piece of evidence moves further away from intent to steal and towards he was stopping for water and a break during his jog.

        If he ran at a good speed from his home 2 miles away, he would need a short break and water before continuing to run the rest of the distance. One video at night shows him doing the exact same he did the day he was “caught red handed.”

        Is anyone chasing him or standing outside catching him “in the act?” Is he dress the same way he was the day of his death? Does he run from the front of the door down past the McMichaels?

        1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          The person in this video does not resemble the deceased.

    3. avatar pwrserge says:

      Failing at robbery no more negates criminal intent than failing at murder. Under Georgia law, if you enter a dwelling with the INTENT to steal so much as a paperclip, you’re on the hook for a 1st degree felony.

  10. avatar former water walker says:

    “Attacked” by a jogger? Those poor armed redneck’s! That colored fella fought back. Stupidly I’ll give you that. Having an uptick of violent crime in my burb I sure as he!! wouldn’t lie in wait on a street for homie. Woe to you if you’re on my property…oh and what’s with relying on AP garbage? Did they suddenly become a bastion of conservative or neutral reporting?!? Is NBC next?😖

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Use numerous sources. Everybody lies for the money. You have to do the research yourself if you want all the known facts. People are too lazy to care to research themselves, they rely on the corporations to spoon feed them drama.

  11. avatar Ralph says:

    The craziest thing about this case is that the video was leaked by one of the McMichaels. They were in the clear until the footage came to light. How stupid can one get?

    1. avatar Kendahl says:

      I think it was leaked by the people who took it while following Arbery. (If they wanted to protect the McMichaels, why didn’t they delete the video and keep their mouths shut?)

      1. avatar tdiinva says:

        Nope, McMichaels’ lawyer confirmed McMichael leaked it.

      2. avatar Chief Censor says:

        Roddy said he put it out because he is a witness. Then Greg said he is the one that gave it to Alan Tucker. Alan Tucker said he “leaked” it to a local radio station to stop a race riot. The radio station put it on their website. Someone took it form the website and uploaded it onto social media.

        Trump supporter have no loyalty. MAGA country turned on each other real quick. I thought they had white unity in their parts, I guess it only works when everything is going good.

        I wonder if Roddy is still sleeping in his car. He might want to move to Canada.

    2. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Law enforcement doesn’t like to hire high IQ Americans.

  12. avatar I always break into homes and jog with a hammer says:

    It’s sick how fast the boomers on this board will sell out their own kind.

    Newsflash: white right-wing millennials and Sooners are racist AF because deal with this multicultural experiment daily. The goyim know.

    1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      What kind is that exactly?

      Human kind?

      Off with you troll.

    2. avatar Ralph says:

      The boomers? Oh, do you mean people who can read and write cursive (not block printing that I mastered in second grade), who worked and bought their own homes and never lived in their grandma’s basement, who can think critically, who have actually read the Constitution, who brought into the world two generations of sniveling little pukes who can’t wipe their own a$$e$ without an instruction manual (in block print, of course) — those boomers?

      Go fvck yourself.

      1. avatar Ok Boomer says:

        The same boomers who ruined the domestic economy by outsourcing to China every chance and crippled domestic manufacturing jobs, created “participation” trophys then turned around and blamed their kids for the negative effects, are the vast majority of Karen’s that berate retail workers over petty bullshit, make up the career politicians that screw us out of our rights everyday, and still have the audacity to blame “those lazy millennials” when they take less vacation and sick time.

        Also, cursive for pansies.

        1. avatar Ralph says:

          You would be the expert on pansies, wouldn’t you, Pajama Boy?

        2. avatar Ok Boomer says:

          Ouch, how will I ever recover from such a witty retort?

          Don’t you have someone you need lecture on how they just need to pick themselves up by their bootstraps?

        3. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          virtually everything you own is chicom, tide pod.
          older folks been agin’ it all along.

  13. avatar Montana Actual says:

    Stupid on both sides. Attacts stupid opinions.

    1. avatar Mitch says:

      Yeah, and you sure know how to spot stupid…

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        K. Cool story bro. Obviously, you are one of them if such a simple statement got your butt hurting. KYS

  14. avatar pwrserge says:

    And here we are again, with TTAG simping for the AP.

    Literally nothing in that article can be taken at face value.

    1. avatar D’Charles Holmes-Quinn III says:

      Hey look everyone it’s the ‘man’ who believes it’s okay to murder a black man in cold blood.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        When said “cold blood” involved the convicted felon in question trying to grab a gun away from the man trying to lawfully arrest him? Yes. Maybe homeboy should have kept his hands to himself?

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          He would have kept his hands on his gun if gun control wasn’t a thing. Of course you love when that black man had to go hands on and he got blasted three times.

          That big white man was so scared of the smaller but athletic black man. Imagine when the black man has guns! Well, don’t worry because they have seen the light.

          Black Guns Matter.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          Do I have a problem with a thieving convicted felon getting blasted when he got froggy because he got caught? No, not I don’t. I do find it interesting that you keep circling back to the color of his skin as if that means jack shit in 2020.

        3. avatar Montana Actual says:

          You realize that calling him “homeboy” is racist, right? If you could still say the N word and get away with it, you would have used it there instead of homeboy. You are not fooling anyone.

        4. avatar pwrserge says:

          Thanks for proving my point. You still don’t get the bottom line here.

          All of this could have been avoided if a thieving convicted felon had just kept his hands to himself.

          The fact that the poverty pimps are reaching so deep to shove racism into the situation just proves that racism isn’t nearly as much of a problem as they claim.

          I still find it interesting that for every legit “hate crime” we’ve had on the national stage in the past 10 years, we’ve had a dozen hoaxes.

        5. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Dude it’s been like that for centuries now. Even the cowboy protested shit like this and would call it cold blooded murder. You keep using derogatory terms like “homeboy” and “poverty pimps” then ranting about dumb shit that no one cares about. This shit aint facebook. Get over yourself. Maybe take a break from all forms of news for a month and see if it helps. You are unstable. And this coming from someone who has been at it with regulars on these forums for some time now. But you advocate a lot of dumbass shit. Nobody is “helping you prove your point”, you are conflicted and already have your mind made up, so keep it to your fucking self. Quit ranting like a lunatic. Seriously man, know when to stop. Having the last word does not mean you won. Hundreds of comments from people with varying stances on this issue have all said the same thing about you and your opinion. You take things too far. Breathe.

        6. avatar pwrserge says:

          I don’t care about the opinion of frauds and enablers. The reality is that imaginary persecution does not give you the right to ignore the law.

      2. avatar napresto says:

        The problem with serge is that when you point out something unconscionable that he’s said, expecting him to exhibit some sense of shame, he just doubles down on it. Every. Single. Time. It’s sorta fun to mess with him, but he’s so boringly predictable.

        Remember Vlad? Now that guy was grade A, bat guano bonkers. You never knew what kind of insanity he was gonna dish out. Serge’s mental issues are just the same thing, over and over and over and over. So give me a Vlad sandwich instead of a bland, boring pwrsauce bar, any day!

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Yea I have to agree. There is some serious underlying issues being presented here.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          My “serious issue” is that I look at things as they are, not as bigots claim them to be.

          The national data doesn’t show what they claim it does and this case is a perfect example of people making up imaginary problems to feel relevant.

          This isn’t the 1960s. There is no more Jim Crow. No matter how much certain racist activist groups want to remain relevant, all the giants are dead and they are, at best, tilting windmills.

          This case is rather simple, a convicted felon was spotted booking from a dwelling that has had a recent string of burglaries. His description matched the description of one of the people caught on camera on the site when they had no lawful reason to be there.

          A group of idiots thought that they would do their neighborhood a solid and arrest the guy. Instead of dealing with things like a rational adult, the felon in question decided that his paranoid delusions of imaginary racism justify him using violence to resist a lawful arrest. It ended poorly for him. Case closed.

        3. avatar DDay says:

          serge is a moron. He’s not a lawyer, doesn’t know a damn thing about the laws of GA but post after post he claims the father/son followed GA law. The actual lawyers in GA are not ukranian racists spouting off online but know the laws and charged the father/son.

          I just hope no one takes anything serge says as correct, he’s an idiot and should be laughed at. I can imagine his parents think he’s normal or not in need of a great deal of mental help.

        4. avatar pwrserge says:

          … and yet… some of the best civil rights attorneys in the country agree with my reading of the statutes. As I already cited. But sure. Believe what you want to believe. I’m not about to start pasting my credentials all over teh intewebz.

  15. avatar Kendahl says:

    Andrew Branca, author of The Law of Self Defense, has a series of videos on Facebook about the Arbery case. They are well worth viewing. Usually he takes his videos down quickly, because Facebook is hostile to the 2nd Amendment and to self defense in general, but he believes this case is important enough to leave them up.

    Branca makes a pretty good argument that Georgia’s law on citizen’s arrest and its (overly?) broad definition of burglary gave the McMichaels legal justification to stop Arbery. In another video, Branca discusses a legal analysis by a George Washington University law professor that claims this is a straightforward case of self defense and has nothing to do with citizen’s arrest.

    Contrary to what is claimed in the TTAG article, the video clearly shows Arbery running TOWARD the McMichaels, not away from them. McMichael Junior is on the left side of their truck. Arbery dodges around the right side and disappears around the front. The next thing we see is he and McMichael Junior, at the left of the truck, struggling over the shotgun. At first, I thought Arbery suffered a shotgun wound to his hand but was killed by two shots fired by McMichael Senior from the bed of the truck. It appears that he actually died from three shotgun wounds and no handgun wounds.

    To nitpick, the McMichaels have not been charged with murdering Arbery. McMichael Junior has been charged with aggravated assault and, since that is a felony and Arbery died as a result of it, he is also being charged with felony murder. (It’s similar to charging an armed robber with felony murder because a cop took a shot at him, missed and killed an innocent bystander.) McMichael Senior has been charged with aiding and abetting his son.

    I wonder how this would have played out had the McMichaels limited their involvement to calling 911 with Arbery’s description and location so that the stop would have been made by a uniformed police officer. Had Arbery attacked the officer, he might still have died but the heat would be on the officer and his department in a replay of the Michael Brown incident in Missouri.

    1. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

      All true. Especially the last part. Would you want to interject YOURSELF into that situation?

    2. avatar Cale15 says:

      I wonder how this would’ve played out if the colors were reversed! Wait a minute no I don’t wander nothing would come of it!

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        So true! The black man would be in prison by now on death row. There wouldn’t be any time for the media to write click bait.

    3. avatar Kendahl says:

      Branca has some more information today. The owners of the house have an internet connected surveillance camera which shows what looks like Arbery inside. The local police advised them to contact McMichael any time they observed a trespasser and gave them his phone number. Does this confer LEO status on McMichael? This gets messier by the day.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        Nope because Greg was going to be fired from the police department for refusing his required training. The training classes he was required to take would have taught him not to do what he did that day. Instead Greg took classes to deal with Islamic terrorism. He essentially didn’t take training during the Obama presidency. He was only allowed to stay on the force because the DA gave him a waiver. He was forced into retirement in 2019. Once he “retired” he contacted the department to contact Larry so he could get power of attorney over the property, which would allow him to trespass people and effect an arrest for criminal trespass. He created a lynch mob with the neighbors and his son so they could all play cop.

        The police can’t just throw you a gun and a badge. These days there are requirements for the sheriff to deputize.

        1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          “……Once he “retired” he contacted the department to contact Larry so he could get power of attorney over the property, which would allow him to trespass people and effect an arrest for criminal trespass. He created a lynch mob with the neighbors and his son so they could all play cop….””

          You have a news link to this statement about POA?

  16. avatar Ranger Rick says:

    I’m sure if someone were to ask Gregory McMichael and his son Travis McMichael right now if all things being equal would they do it again the answer would be hell no!!!

    Too bad they didn’t ask themselves that question back in February 2019.

  17. avatar strych9 says:

    This is one of those things where I agree with some of the above comments on stupid being stupid.

    Whether or not this guy was burglarizing, or whatever you might charge him with, the two guys who followed him are Darwin Award level dumb and if they got the right guy it was by luck. That might make it technically legal but they’re still window-licking levels of retarded.

    If two people, regardless of race, roll up on someone like this while wielding shotguns what sort of response do you realistically think they’re going to get? I’d bet they usually a violent one no matter who they’ve managed to stop. The guilty want to get away and the innocent think they’re getting accosted by armed retards hell bent on murder. Either way you probably end up with a bad outcome unless the “jogger” is a liberal who thinks the answer to a home invasion is to give up the goods and hope rapine and murder aren’t on the agenda.

    One of the reasons that resisting cops is illegal is because they wear a uniform that identifies them. These guys have nothing other than guns and a truck. If they rolled up on me like this and were dumb enough to let me lope around the truck I’d automatically assume them to be some thugs and I’d be coming around the front end of that truck gun up and punching holes in that fucker standing in the street, keeping the truck’s engine between myself and the guy in the back of the truck as much as possible. Then I’d be working of figuring out how to punch the ticket of Fat-Fuck #2.

    No matter how you cut it, these “guys” are nothing more than armed tubs of Crisco. Fat as fuck and about as smart. Fuck both of them.

    1. avatar Ron says:

      Damn straight strych.

    2. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Let’s not forget he was a cop and the other is the son of said cop. These are the people running around in uniforms telling us we don’t need guns and if we do have them we need their permission to carry them.

    3. avatar CarlosT says:

      100%

      The thing that has annoyed me about discussion around this case is there have been a lot of irrelevant noise brought in, as often happens.

      The crux of the case is what they actually knew at the time. Did they actually have sufficient knowledge to have “reasonable and probable grounds” that Arbery was fleeing a felony? If not, then they were committing a crime by pursuing him with guns. Currently the charge is aggravated assault, but I could also imagine false imprisonment as well. If they are convicted of a felony, then the felony murder would follow almost automatically. If they did have that knowledge, then I think murder is definitely off the table, but I’m not sure they’d be completely clear of legal jeopardy. Given it will take a very expensive legal process to sort out, it will hurt either way.

      So, worth the risk? Not to me, no. I’d get a description of the guy, maybe take some video (hopefully more competently than than in this case), and make a report. Sorry neighbor, but I’m not risking my life or freedom for your $2,500 worth in tools.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        One of the other things to consider here is what Arbery knew or would have reasonably thought given the circumstances. No one wants to really talk about that side of the coin.

        The simple fact is that from Arbery’s point of view he has no particular reason to comply with these two dolts.

        Whether he committed some infraction of law or not doesn’t matter. He has not done anything that 1) forfeits his rights, including that of self defense or that would 2) cause him to believe that the two ‘tards-in-question are lawfully pursuing him.

        There is literally NO circumstance where Arbery, regardless of burglary or not, would be rationally expected to make the assumption that these guys have the lawful authority to stop him or are just going to turn him over to the cops. On top of that he has every reason, based on the behavior of these two walking Crisco cans, to think that they are a threat to his safety. Even if he has knowingly committed a felony he’s in reasonable fear for his life at this point and he has not committed a capital crime.

        Let’s be real, these idiots look and act exactly like two stereotypical fat-ass racists out on a “coon hunt”. No rational person, innocent or guilty of some minor crime, would believe that 1) these guys are legit (they’re not) and 2) going to follow the law if the person in question actually surrenders to them. The McMichaels have put themselves in a very bad light where no rational person would, or should be expected to, assume that the McMichaels are reasonable and law abiding.

        Again, I DGAF about the technicalities of Georgia law. There is not a person here who would willingly submit to these two morons under the circumstances in that video not a fucking one. That should tell us something; namely that regardless of if the law technically was on the side of the McMichaels, they shouldn’t have been doing what they were doing because there’s no way for an outsider to know if they’re making a citizens arrest or looking to commit a murder and the law doesn’t require us to assume that armed men threatening us just want to give us a fucking foot massage. We are allowed to assume that they mean us harm, and that’s exactly what rational people DO assume.

        “I wouldn’t be breaking the law in the first place” is irrelevant and not an argument. Even if you were breaking the law you still have these things called “rights” and you have absolutely zero reason to believe that these porkers are going to respect those rights. Quite honestly, you’d have “reasonable suspicion” that they intend to murder you roadside post haste. Even criminals have rights until this thing called “due process” plays out and the McMichaels don’t exactly look like the due process types in this situation.

        If we’re being really real here we’re going to admit that if most cops were driving along and saw essentially what that video shows go down at least one of the McMichaels would probably have been shot by said cop who would, quite rationally, believe he had just witnessed a cold-blooded lynching. That video could easily have been a dash-cam of a cop legally bagging a nice big hogger.

        These two retards went looking for trouble and they found it. I don’t much care what happens to them. This is the stupid prize they win for playing a stupid game.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          The law is what separates us from a mob out for blood. In cases like this THE LAW is the only thing that DOES matter.

        2. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          i’m thinkin’ the local popo pretty much would not have shot either father or son.
          people really don’t like being detained let alone booked. criminals constantly resist arrest and we see it more often than we did, it would seem. whatever, certain elements seem more empowered over absolute submission. as common as it is against uniformed “authority”, i believe few when cornered (or obstructed) would submit to plainclothed civilians.
          by which i mean to say these two went way too far. attacking them wasn’t too bright either.

        3. avatar strych9 says:

          Law isn’t law when it’s incomprehensible. This has been known and understood since Hammurabi. It’s further been understood since 1600 that laws that are impossible to follow are not laws. This situation is problematic on both fronts.

          No rational person gets rolled up on like this and thinks “Clearly this is legit”. None.

          And don’t tell me that if two black guys in sagging pants and blue Tall T’s with matching rags or caps, who just happened to be part of an actual neighborhood watch, stopped you like this that you’d think it was on the up and up and just surrender. They look like thugs and act like thugs, don’t bullshit me and tell me you’re not going to figure that they’re thugs.

          And no, “I wouldn’t be committing crimes” doesn’t fucking matter and isn’t an argument. Under the arguments presented in favor of these two idiots what you did or didn’t do is entirely irrelevant. What matters is that they believe you did *it* (or can somewhat convincingly argue that they believed as such), and you can’t know what’s in their mind at the time that this occurs. The legality of their actions hinges entirely on what they believed which the dead guy literally cannot know. As such, the dead guy here passes the reasonable man test regardless of prior facts.

          They’re gonna get put through the ringer for this, and deservedly so.

        4. avatar DDay says:

          serge is the moron who thinks what these two did was just fine. He thinks trespassing without taking anything should result in getting shot dead in the street.

          There are not many dolts like the mcmichaels but there are a few 2 digit IQ’s like serge who are that level of stupid

        5. avatar pwrserge says:

          Holy shit DDay…

          Let us state the fallacies…

          Straw man
          Ad hominem
          Non Sequitur

          Did I miss any?

    4. avatar Kendahl says:

      Open carry is legal in Georgia. Being approached by an openly armed person isn’t by itself justification to react with deadly force. You also need a display of hostile intent that would cause a reasonable person to fear for his life. My response in such a situation would be, “If you have a problem with me, call the police. I’ll cooperate to the extent of not leaving but no further. In the meantime, you keep your guns pointed in a safe direction and I’ll do the same with mine.”

    5. avatar Kendahl says:

      Open carry is legal in Georgia. Being approached by an openly armed person isn’t by itself justification to react with deadly force. You also need a display of hostile intent that would cause a reasonable person to fear for his life. My response in such a situation would be, “If you have a problem with me, call the police. I’ll cooperate to the extent of not leaving but no further. In the meantime, you keep your guns pointed in a safe direction and I’ll do the same with mine.”

      1. avatar tdiinva says:

        Open carry of a long gun usually requires that you have it slung.

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          You can open carry however you want with a long gun. It just does not usually go over well with tyrants when you are more ready than they are.

      2. avatar strych9 says:

        Open carry and “attempting to detain someone while holding the weapon in your hands” are two entirely different things.

        This was not two guys prepping to hunt dove and violently assaulted. They went looking for a confrontation, found it, and initiated it in a threatening manner while brandishing firearms for the explicit purpose of intimidating someone into surrender. They failed to intimidate and got a unsurprising result.

        If Georgia straps them both to a table and poisons them I won’t shed a tear, just two dead retards who were part of a genetic dead end.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Then you are morally no different from the crowds of people who made a family evening out of stringing up an innocent black man.

        2. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          “They failed to intimidate and got a unsurprising result.”
          that’s a definate problem when arms are drawn. you might have to use them.

        3. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          definite?

        4. avatar strych9 says:

          That’s a bit rich coming from you serge.

          Sorry, I think that actions have consequences. Acting badly usually has bad consequences. They acted badly, so if bad things happen as a consequence of that, boo fucking hoo.

          When those consequences killed someone, well, I’m not a fan of the death penalty but if we’re gonna use it we might as well apply it to cases where pure, crystalline idiocy resulted in the death of another person.

        5. avatar pwrserge says:

          Please cite the law they broke. Defending yourself against attack is not a crime. Neither is a citizen’s arrest.

      3. avatar DDay says:

        they tried to use the truck to stop him prior to driving ahead and getting out with a shotgun. They were the aggressors in the event long before he tried to get the shotgun from the son. He rightly feared for his safety

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Bull shit. They were no more “the aggressor” than a cop doing the exact same thing. They had every legal right to detain him.

    6. avatar former water walker says:

      AND it’s THE SOUTH. Despite the rednecks(& serge)claiming “nuthin’ racist here! Move along! me and my missus ain’t moving south ever. NO Cook County is not Georgia. It sux but it beats the former Confederate States…do you suppose the elder McMichael has fond memories of pre-1964 daze?!?

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        Correct me if I am wrong here former, but your misses is black, correct?

        1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          from whay i’ve seen down south, they’ve come to terms with one another better than we have up north. a certain decorum allows for most to get along by sharing commonalities and having similar concerns. i’ve seen non- pc ribbing between tribes that stops short of disrespect. people know what each other are about more. up here it’s often awkward as some folks isolate from each other.
          perhaps for a mixed marriage couple there would be disdain.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          It does depend. I’ve gotten static for a mixed marriage. Old guys who hate Japanese and a mix of ages that these days hate Chinese. Even had a guy follow us around in the grocery store blathering about how my wife’s part of the “plague conspiracy”. Whatever, crazy old man.

          I have however seen real, honest-to-God racism in both directions between blacks and whites. Mostly in the Midwest but, more rarely yet more openly in the South. A friend of mine and I noted there were no black people in a bar we were at in Savannah, and were told by an older gent that “We don’t let niggers in here”.

          Was he serious? Drunk (Yes, he in fact was drunk)? Crazy? Just really, really sarcastic? Overstating his personal opinions that didn’t reflect bar policy? Dunno, but it was kind of strange and I can imagine it being quite offputting to blacks and those who might be in a mixed race relationship.

          In the US it’s nothing compared to the racism I’ve witnessed in other countries but it’s still offensive and usually meant to intimidate.

      2. avatar Ron says:

        There you go with your anti southern panic attack again. No one said you should move to the south and in fact the south is probably better off without someone that’s as freaked out as you are. I’m actually not even a southerner, either. But I’ve lived all over this country and Illl continue to refute your delusions of how the “racist south still has him Crowe.” Guess what buddy, Illinois also had a great deal of Klan presence back in the day, so why don’t you just hide in your safe, liberal city and don’t bother leaving it. I’m willing to bet your also too scared to go to Indiana and Wisconsin.

        It’s not the 30s anymore. It’s not even the 60s anymore. Get over your issues.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          “better off without someone that’s as freaked out as you are”

          Never had your ass beat or face punched in because of who your romantic partner was?

          It happens here, and it was pretty much legal up until a few short years ago, see loving v. Virginia.

          The white supremacist racists call them ‘race traitors”. Only white men can date white women, that’s part of the ‘white privilege’ they enjoy.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          You sure you haven’t been in a coma since the 1980s? Because that has literally not been a major issue since at least before I was born.

        3. avatar Ron says:

          Miner you’re so full of shit it would be hilarious if it wasn’t so pathetic.

      3. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        @ fww Seriously?

    7. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Agreed.

  18. avatar Hannibal says:

    “Gregory McMichael told police they wanted to talk to Arbery and tried to corner him…”

    I’ve confronted people for committing just the sort of crime that they allege that the decedent engaged in- technically a low-level burglary in my jurisdiction, possible less than that in their jurisdiction (trespass?). Never once did I drive at them in a vehicle and jump out with guns drawn because that would be stupid and irresponsible absent some indication that they are armed and dangerous; it’s not how you “talk” to someone and it’s not the kind of crime that warrants such a response. It’s broad daylight out, there are police en route (police who are uniformed are in marked police cars unlike two fat hicks in a pickup truck with a shotgun) and the guy in question is not only NOT known to have committed a violent crime but it sounds like he was suspected of trespass.

    Yet these two yahoos get in their pickup truck with guns and nothing else (i.e. less-lethal weapons, uniforms, etc) and charge after him. They then start a fight they can’t win because they’re fat slobs and use it as an excuse to murder the guy who had every reason to think he was being assaulted or kidnapped by random criminals. There are reasons that citizen arrest laws are not as broad as those for certified, active police officers.

    One other thing to remember is the fact that someone was an ‘investigator’ or some other law-enforcement title does not mean they were or are a cop. That’s not suggesting that patrol cops are superior to a district attorney investigator in some hierarchy of law enforcement but it IS suggesting that people need to stay in their lane or this is the stupid shit that happens. And it sure looks like the good old boy network tried to get them out of it.

  19. avatar pwrserge says:

    You know… all I see is a bunch of buthurt boomers who can’t come up with a rational argument beyond “dey racis”… It’s adorable how nobody here cares what the law actually says or what actually happened. Guess the main mistake those two guys made was not wearing the right colors when they went to arrest someone they suspected of felony burglary. If it had been a pair of cops, I’d bet we’d be hearing the exact opposite tune.

    I don’t have a problem with cops. I do have a problem with boomers who think that uniforms grant special rights not available to the average citizen in the same circumstances.

    Here’s the hillarious part. They think calling me a racist means something. It doesn’t. That slur has been rendered meaningless over the past decade. Deal with it.

    I’d get on low dose aspirin if I were you. You guys are going to get one hell of a shock when this dumpster fire of a “case” hits an actual courtroom. I don’t think your hardened arteries will be able to take it.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      I’m not a boomer. They probably did have some racial intentions. Like you. But it doesn’t matter. The description to the dispatcher was never anything that deserved being chased after with guns like a modern day lynching crew. Black or not. If they had murdered a white person doing the same thing, it would be no different. Nothing either party did was smart, but thinking the initial decision to attempt to justify a citizens arrest was worth the outcome? You’d be sitting on trial too for thinking like that. White, Black, Brown… doesn’t matter. So calm down. Stop getting so emotional over dumb shit you have no control over and worry about yourself. Hopefully, it doesn’t lead to you dawning batmans suit.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        He thinks he is the Punisher. He would love to be a cop in America.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Right now I’m wondering if you can even read the queen’s English.

        2. avatar Chief Censor says:

          @pwrserge

          Oh, shit! You got me. English isn’t my first language. Damn. But I can’t speak any other language to you because you won’t understand them.

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          Wanna bet censor? I speak 6 languages passably and know a smidgen of 2 more.

    2. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Did you see this video in my comment? Did you see how Travis pointed the shotgun at Arbery? Did you see how Travis ran around to the front of the truck? Did you hear Greg yelling at Travis to drop the gun and stop before Travis started shooting?

      https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/mcmichael-law-enforcement-ties-delay-in-charging-complicate-ahmaud-abery-shooting-case/#comment-4516883

      Serpent, please indicate where on the video the gun was pointed at the “jogger” PRIOR to him charging the people trying to lawfully arrest him. I’ll wait.

      I have been telling you this but you refuse to see the truth. What do you have to say now?

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        He raised the shotgun as the guy came charging at him… You’d think a “racist” out to “lynch” a “poor jogger” would have just pulled the trigger? My point stands.

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          Was he “charging” out the door of the construction site and a quarter mile down the road hoping to run down Travis? I thought he was running away from Diego so the police wouldn’t catch him. Now he is running into the arms of Travis? What a love story. So he was never jogging, then he wasn’t running away, now he is charging?

          Did you see Travis point the shotgun at Arbery? Did you see Travis go around the front of the truck? Did Arbery attack Travis after he pointed the gun at him? Does a person have the right to stand their ground if a man points a gun at them? Can self defense be used in a court of law when you point a gun at someone first then they attack you?

          I did tell you I don’t know if they are racist, but something weird was going on. Now we know what that weird stuff was. However, they do seem to focus on the black males in their 95% white neighborhood and they got a corrupt police department involved. The good ol’ boy network in America was designed to allow whites to attack non whites and get away with it.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          Making an awful lot of assumptions there kiddo… The statistics just don’t show anything that would indicate that your paranoid rant is in any way true

        3. avatar Chief Censor says:

          Com on, Serge. You are so well versed with the law in America and you are a great English speaker. Educate me on the law and what those English words mean.

          Let’s just talk about how the law applies to Travis and his actions. Can he claim lawful open carry? Can he claim stand your ground? Can he claim self defense? Can he claim citizen’s arrest? Can he claim lawful detainment? Can he claim lawful imprisonment if Arbery didn’t fight back?

          Teach us wise one. Teach us how you fought for the rule of law and due process.

        4. avatar pwrserge says:

          I already laid out the facts of the case several times. The facts, don’t support your claims so you invent motives not backed by demonstrable facts.

          I’m just going to sit back and laugh my ass off.

        5. avatar Chief Censor says:

          Did your facts and arguments include the pointing of a shotgun and the father yelling at his son to put down the gun?

        6. avatar pwrserge says:

          Assumes facts not in evidence.

    3. avatar Warlocc says:

      You’re the reason we have red flag laws. Completely irrational, unstable, and angry gun owner. No wonder lefties think “Wow, gun owners are just angry rednecks, itching to murder”. You’re literally advocating it.

      These guys displayed epic levels of stupidity and the legal system displayed epic levels of corruption, and you’re screaming at everyone “But it’s not racism so it’s okay that they killed him!”

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Ok Karen.

    4. avatar Ron says:

      “If it had been a pair of cops, I’d bet we’d be hearing the exact opposite tune.“

      Are you shitting me? This place has more cop hate then a black panther rally.

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        Not exactly. It’s more related to the job description and history of tyranny behind police, no matter what government you look at, whereas a black panther type group is race related. So, apples to oranges. If you would have asked me 10 years ago if I supported police, the answer would have been 100% different than today. Things change. And acknowledging police for the work they do is literally acknowledging the enforcement of laws from the government we want to mind their own business, and manipulate people into waiving their rights so they can do it. No other way to look at it, unless you are not paying attention. Ask any cop. The basics of what they teach you are just that. Why do you think so many ex police have taken such a stance against the very “oath” they swore and gone into criminal justice, or civilian advisory on what to do and what not to do when dealing with police. Just because they wear a uniform and identify themselves does not mean what they do, or how they do it, is okay.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          “If you would have asked me 10 years ago if I supported police, the answer would have been 100% different than today. Things change.”

          I’m not sure I agree.

          White folk been killing unarmed black folk in Georgia without any legal consequences for almost 300 years.

          Unfortunately for them, now we have video, and they are getting hard. That’s all that’s changed.

        2. avatar Ron says:

          Miner you’ve never even been to Georgia. You’ve never even left your liberal enclave.

        3. avatar Waylon says:

          Miner when GA was founded as a colony it was actually the first colony to ban slavery. Look it up. Slavery was banned for the first 30 years of its existence until those that wanted the economic advantage of slavery took power.

          Something else you probably didn’t know, was the norther states had slavery too. They just got rid of it when it was no longer an economic need. I garuntee you if the north’s economy would’ve relied on slavery like the south’s, the north never would’ve gotten rid of slavery.

      2. avatar strych9 says:

        Some folks here do seem to genuinely dislike or even hate cops.

        Others believe in dishing out credit and criticism where each is properly due.

        1. avatar Ron says:

          I’m totally down with criticism and even Monday morning QBing if the fuck up is bad enough.

          Example: Those idiot police who recently murdered the innocent woman in her home. They deserve everything the court can give them.

          However there is a lot wannabe Timmothy McVieghs around here who go well off into the deep end in their rage fantasies. And that’s quite ironic to me considering many of them call themselves “constitutionalists”, yet they seem to be more in favor of Mob Rule, or something more akin to the Reign of Terror then A Republic with rule of law.

    5. avatar Arandom Dude says:

      No Serge, I don’t think you’re a racist, just stupid. Now a lot of the people who agree with you (the ones heavily using “jogger” as a substitute for “nigger”) might just be racist. But you’re special. I’ve been here for years and seen you defend the indefensible and make outrageous statements many times, so I don’t believe you’re a racist.

      And my problem with this is not the race of the victim and perpetrators; I couldn’t give two flying fvcks, it’s that the actions of the perpetrators were wildly out of line.

      And I’m in my 20s.

    6. avatar DDay says:

      The prosecutors in GA charged them with murder yet th serge knows the law better than the people who went to law school and investigate/charge these situations every day.

      serge has the same low IQ as these two twits. Serge be their prison pen pals.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Son, I can buy and sell your entire net worth out of my checking account. Get an argument or get an education so you can make one.

  20. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    Once again Liberals, black and white, rally around a black criminal. Takes a gun to a school he’s not a student at????
    As I said before on TTAG, these two guys need to articulate why they shot someone who was unarmed. I want to see more evidence. Right now the image of this trespasser/burglar is not looking very good. I want to know if he took any “trophies”from his visits to other people’s private property???

    Chasing an unarmed criminal with your gun is not the start of a positive DGU.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      “Takes a gun to a school he’s not a student at????”

      I’m so glad to see you agree with gun control laws, do you have your permit from the king toyou carry your gun yet?

      This is a real change, I’ve seen many posts in the past about how all gun control laws are unconstitutional, is that not so?

      Oh, the individual was black so he doesn’t have the same rights as the white folk is that it?

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Agree or not, a felony is a felony. Moron couldn’t even keep his nose clean for 5 years of his probation. Had to “shoplift” himself a TV.

  21. avatar possum says:

    A friend of mine had her neighbor shot and killed last night. not even on the local news.people get shooted everday. comparing the difference, this shooting happened in a low rent hi rise complex , black on black. Not even in the news. U suppose it was a hate crime? I don’t know of many people that get shooted because they liked the guy..

    1. avatar RidgeRunner says:

      Real Possum

  22. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    The facts presented and allowed into evidence at this possible trial are important.

    However, the last remaining place of pure freedom is the jury deliberation room where not only guilt or innocence is decided but if the law itself is righteous or not.

    My prediction is this case goes the Plea Deal route and never sees the inside of a courtroom. Both father and son are going to serve serious time behind bars. This whole thing is a lose-lose for everyone involved.

    Of course I’ve never won the lottery either but that’s what I think will happen and I’m sticking with it.

    1. avatar Not a Boomer says:

      @Manse Jolly
      “My prediction is this case goes the Plea Deal route and never sees the inside of a courtroom. Both father and son are going to serve serious time behind bars. This whole thing is a lose-lose for everyone involved.”

      That’s approximately my “take” on this case as well. The McMichaels may be stupid, but are they so stupid as to go to trial. Not unless they have a halfwit for a lawyer.

  23. avatar White Obama Mama says:

    Trump made his comment about the case pretty much calling the white men guilty. Needing more black votes what did you expect him to do, but with this there can never be an impartial jury seated in the trial so the case must be dismissed. If the glove don’t fit you must acquit. And the blacks true to form of course MARCH like they always do. But where was Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson? They along with others you would expect probably will be joining the lynch mob the closer we get to election day.

    The blacks must have their pounds of white flesh – facts of the case be damned. At the same time so much black on black killing takes place in Chicago and that’s fine; not much is ever said or done about it; why aren’t they in Chicago MARCHING. Also if pwserge can keep all of you tied into knots with his grasp of the facts and legalese think what a real defense lawyer can do with this case. All you many yankees need to MYOB and go back to where ever you came from and stay there. This was just some good’ol boys trying to get by the best way they knew how, even if it does turn out to be a little more than the law will allow.

    But ‘devils, FBI and the feds, went down to Georgia’ to be sure to back up Trump’s guilty verdict issued without a trial. Also Georgia’s governor and the GBI had to get in on the act too. It’s all just politics and it’s dirty election year politics at that. Hang’em high – see all what we do to protect all you black folks, err… black voters. In the back woods of Georgia cheit jus happens sometimes. Many things you will never know about or hear about but it’s still a lot better than Chicago justice that is no justice at all.

    These TTAG articles on this case and all of the comments are a blast to read and prove above all else what most of us already knew. That is the blacks are the most ‘racis’ of all. Take care of and bring justice for all the many shot dead in Chicago first, take care of your own kind, before you come down South to MARCH. Even possum knows ‘people get shooted everday’ … But this is different because it’s politics, dirty politics. All you MARCHING homies ain’t fooling nobody and ain’t helping nobody. They may well hang those boys high that all of you might be satisfied, go home and shut the F up. That is until the next thing comes along to march about. Never enough and never satisfied and it has turned this country into just another banana republic and welfare state. At least those here from Mexico come here and work hard and don’t complain and march and protest all the time, or nearly as much.

    The marching blacks, above all else, have to ‘feel good’ about themselves that they have righted yet another wrong, and injustice, perpetrated upon a black man by a white man. It’s all about feelz isn’t it. However, if it be a black on black thang, well that be alright and OK cuz it was black on black. Some might think of how racist and hypocritical, the contrivance of a false appearance of virtue or goodness, while concealing real character traits or inclinations, the marchers are; they can’t see it in themselves and have no clue.

    They act, march, in unison to think to be forcing the hand, and a jury if it is ever seated, to render a guilty of murder, and death penalty, verdict. Then if they don’t get what they want, just like a lynch mob, they return and riot. Only blood can quench their thirst. Politicians fall all over each other in a race to satisfy them – in an election year. The little south Georgia town and county is just a pawn in a much bigger dirty political game. Only the return of public hanging is needed to complete the blood thirst cycle.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      Do you really believe that concerned citizens never MARCH for an end to violence in Chicago?

      Are you really that uninformed or are you intentionally lying in a vain attempt to prove your point?

      “People marched from St. Agnes Church to New Life congregation in Little Village to support parents who have lost children to gang violence. The march comes in the wake of shootings that have killed and injured people caught in the crossfire of what appears to be gang conflict. The most resent incident killed 16-year-old Angie Monroy while she was walking on a sidewalk.

      “Unite and Bring Peace for Our Children!  Free T-Shirts for the first 1500 people to arrive!
      Our Annual End of the School Year Rally & March on June 14, 2019
      Rally starts at 6pm, March starts at 7pm from the front steps of Saint Sabina Church 
      Join us all Summer, every Friday night at 7pm to march for peace in the neighborhood”

      “CHICAGO (WLS) — Hundreds of Chicago residents are saying “enough” after at least 40 people were shot, 3 fatally, across the city this weekend.” Protesters gathered in Federal Plaza Sunday to call on lawmakers to do something about Chicago’s gun violence.”

      It is interesting to read your comment, a full throated defense of the modern-day slave catchers, some just don’t learn from history.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Sorry Nazi 69er… there is clear black letter law and precedent on point. If they had reasonable suspicion given the totality of their knowledge at the time they had the right to give chase and carry out a citizen’s arrest. Literally nothing else in this case matters.

        Simply put, white on black violent crime can be rounded to zero. The lynch mobs you claim to fear don’t exist.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          “Simply put, white on black violent crime can be rounded to zero.”

          Again, those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it.

          It’s not surprising, there are many people who ignore the totality of history win trying to learn more about the causes and motivations of the world around them.

          America didn’t just start 10 or 20 years ago, we have to consider the totality of American history when we want to learn more about our society.

          To ignore the hundreds of thousands of black people maimed and killed by white men over the history of this country is as silly as ignoring the constitution.

          America today is the sum total of the actions of its inhabitants over the past 5 centuries, good or bad. And 300 years of institutionalized slavery is a poison that continues to erode our freedoms even today.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          Not how rational thought works… Ancient history is not a rational way to make decisions.

        3. avatar Dude says:

          “To ignore the hundreds of thousands of black people maimed and killed by white men over the history of this country is as silly as ignoring the constitution.”

          People see what they want to see based on their personal beliefs and prejudices. If we’re going back that far, let’s look at it from a different perspective: Hundreds of thousands of white men died in order to end slavery of black people.

        4. avatar Dude says:

          Unfortunately, heroes of the left, like Senator Robert Byrd, were interested in prolonging the oppression of black people. See how that works?

        5. avatar pwrserge says:

          I would point out that the only places where slavery still legally exists are places not run by “racist” white people. You can thank the “racist” British Empire.

          As I said elsewhere, the problem of wide spread violent racism has mostly been solved in the west. Certain people can’t accept that their purpose in life is no longer relevant. It’s the same old SJW victim narrative. Somehow, we cling to the idea of the “virtuous victim” so some people will go to any length to portray themselves as “victims” despite all evidence to the contrary.

          In this file, there is zero evidence that actual racism was involved at any point. Likening a lawful (if stupid) citizen’s arrest to a 1950s style lynching is stupid and irresponsible.

          That’s why I address this point from the angle of LAW. The LAW doesn’t care about your feefees. Something is either lawful or unlawful. As I said when this mess started, if the initial pursuit and arrest were lawful, everything you see on the tape is lawful. (Again irregardless of how stupid the actions are.)

          Thus, thanks to black letter law, we are left with only one question. Was their suspicion and cause to attempt an arrest reasonable? More importantly, was it unreasonable beyond a reasonable doubt? That is the ONLY thing that matters in this case.

          Stupid people do stupid things. It doesn’t mean that a law was broken or that a lynching took place.

        6. avatar Ron says:

          Miner if we’re going to constantly live in the past then you northern states must also pay for your slave owning past and also explain why the north didn’t have the heart to end Jim Crowe. Also then we should demand reparations from the following countries:

          Portugal, Spain, France, Britain, Turkey, and almost every country in Africa.

          You should probably look up how the slave trade actually worked.

        7. avatar DDay says:

          You’re not a lawyer, you don’t know GA law.

          You’re an embarrassment to your parents.

        8. avatar pwrserge says:

          Son, I’m better educated in the law than most members of the bar. I’m just smart enough not to work 80 hour weeks to make a bit north of 100 grand a year.

    2. avatar James Dickey says:

      Nailed it.

  24. avatar st381183 says:

    “ Gregory McMichael told police they wanted to talk to Arbery and tried to corner him, …” This says it all, I would have fought like hell to escape too.

    1. And you would be dead too.
      How about considering a more tactical approach?

      1. avatar st381183 says:

        I’m a concealed carrier so there would be a bit more damage. You guys hanging your hat on trespassing in an unoccupied, under construction building, not even a dwelling yet, on a curious kid that took NOTHING, DID NOTHING, and was killed for defending himself. If it was your son would you still think he should have been chased down and killed? There is definitely a bunch of racists, yes I’m talking to everyone on this site trying to justify the unjustifiable. If this had been a blind haired white kid I think the outrage would be much different. This kid didn’t do anything worthy of a citizen acting as a vigilante. I can’t even blame this on the awful tactic of using a shotgun in close quarters. These guys were out for blood and now their lives, families, finances, and reputations are ruined.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          If they were “out for blood” the convicted felon in question would have been assuming room temperature long before the video started. Sorry commie, reality does not reflect your bigotry, and neither does the law.

        2. avatar DDay says:

          serge is clearly a racist. If Arbery were white, the father son black, he’d have a completely different rant.

          Clowns like serge don’t help the pro 2A side.

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          Ok homeboy. Come back when you can present an actual argument.

  25. avatar JOHN THAYER says:

    Good people sleep safe in their homes because rough men keep the peace. Old fashioned policing meant hiring as few men at as low a price as possible and letting them break the skulls of people who the respectable members of the community feared or disliked. It was crude, it was violent, it was cheap and it worked.

  26. avatar st381183 says:

    There is a lot of racism both open and couched in these comments. I just don’t see how trying to aggressively stop someone and then killing them when they try to defend themselves can be seen as justified. The presumed owner of the house under construction didn’t care, there was one actual report of a stolen gun from weeks earlier, and there was absolutely no proof that Arbery was anything but curious about a construction site.

    I wonder what the story would be if a white man had been chased down in a black neighborhood when two over zealous black dudes attempted to corner and talk to him? As a retired LEO, I just don’t see any justification and stopping a fleeing felon has been limited to a “dangerous fleeing felon” had Mr. Arbery actually committed a crime.

    So much corruption in Georgia and racism in these comments.

    1. Wonder what the story would be if Arbery complied?
      All the keyboard commandos saying they would fight like Arbery did are simply bloviating. No self defense instruction would teach going hands on against two armed adversaries. Hell, most of them discourage drawing against them, if in fact, they were already pointing a gun at you. So miss me with that nonsense.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “Wonder what the story would be if Arbery complied?”

        Yeah, why didn’t that boy comply with the white man’s orders? Just another one of them uppity high-toned boys, getting above his raisin’.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          I don’t know about you, but if somebody told me that the cops were called and was telling me to stop and wait for them to show up, while holding a shotgun, my first instinct wouldn’t be to start a fight. But hey, some of us “violent right wing nutjobs” have this little thing called “self control”. Fist does not beat shotgun and if the man was going to shoot me, I’d have been shot already.

      2. avatar Responsible Gunowner says:

        Apparently, some cannot comprehend reality. And they continue to ignored reality as they hate Blacks.
        The reality (noticed I left race out below)
        1. Person running/jogging on a road with public access (not a private road), the runner – completely legal
        2. Two people stopped, the shooters, in their pickup truck on this public access road – again completely legal, they are allowed to be there.
        3. Runner running goes around pickup truck on the driver’s side, normal, to run/jog around the pickup truck (i.e. the pickup truck has every right to be there and the runner has every right to be there, too).
        4. A shooter displays a shotgun on the driver’s side of the pickup truck. Runner becomes aware that a shooter is armed (see the shotgun; the runner raises his hands, which also shows that the runner is not carrying a firearm (in his hands).
        5. Runner changes direction relative to the driver’s side and passenger side of the pickup truck, back and forth. Eventually, the runner decides to go on the passenger side of the pickup truck, to avoid confrontation with a shooter, the opposite side of a shooter. Runner is attempting to avoid a shooter.
        6. But the shooter, knowingly with his loaded shotgun, moves to intercept the runner on the passenger side. Just look at the video.
        7. A shooter confronts the runner again, and again the shooter knows that he has a loaded shotgun. And any responsible gun owner would know the risk that his gun could be used against him.
        7. Runner’s attempt to avoid a shooter fails – again as the shooter >>>moves<<>>a shooter moves<<>>moved<<>>moved away<<>>moved to<<>>only option to live is to fight for survival<<<. Runner, in a failed attempt to live, fights a shooter. THERE ARE NO OPTIONS TO LIVE FOR THE RUNNER!!!!
        11. A heartbreaking, very, very sad (words are not enough), the runner is shot multiple times and dies. And nothing can bring the runner back, so he may live his life, his RIGHT!!!

        So why is there so much spin and disregard about reality? Because "southern whiteboys" hate Blacks. So they attempt to change the reality of the situation. FYI, I am not Black. I am a white "Yankee". And I lived among you "southern whiteboys" for several years. I also quickly develop a "southern accent", just an attribute of mine. So you could not tell that I was a "Yankee". And I learned how much you "southern, whiteboys" hate Blacks and like guns (I like guns, too).

        For trepass – who can determine trepass?
        Answer: The owner of the land!!!, not someone living nearby
        Did these someones have a written statement from the landowner, about who is permitted and is not permitted on the owner's land. NO!!!!! So any neighbors cannot determine who is or is not trepassing!!!

        FYI, I have land in good hunting. As listed on my no trepass signs, I will grant access anyone access for hunting (just call the phone # on the no trepass signs), bow, rifle, musket, etc, I do not care. And you would get a written statement from me, granting you access for hunting. I also do not tell any neighbors (of this land) that I granted you acccess. And I would never expect my neighbors to challenge you or question you about trepass. NEVER!!!
        So . . . perhaps so day, more citizens of Georgia become aware of their rights to bear arms, ex. including a concealed weapon permits. And when someone-else points a firearm at them, they respond with a legal response, just law abiding citizens (or did you forget, the right to bear arms belongs to almost all Americans (ex. except for people who commit certain felonies, varies from state to state).
        And nothing, nothing will ever bring back the Runner's right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness . . . sound familiar?? like in the Declaration of Independence for our Great Nation.

        So what

        One of the two

    2. avatar pwrserge says:

      Thanks for demonstrating why law school should be a requirement for law enforcement officers. The precedent you’re referring to covers the use of lethal force. In this case, lethal force was not used to stop the felon in question from fleeing. The guys had plenty of opportunity to do that LONG before the video even started. Lethal force was only being used in response to an imminent of death or great bodily harm that occurred when the convicted felon charged a pair of men trying to lawfully arrest him.

      If the citizen’s arrest was lawful, everything you was on that video was 100% lawful. To prove it unlawful, you would have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that their reasonable suspicion and cause was not, in fact, reasonable. Given the histories of the people involved and the prior events surrounding that dwelling, that’s an AWFULL high bar to meet. If defense counsel agrees to plead this out to a misdemeanor assault charge, the DA should take his money and run because, short of stirring up a racist lynch mob, he has no chance at trial.

      Then there’s the qualified immunity angle that has come out in recent days. If the father was, in effect, deputized by the local PD, the prosecutor can’t touch him.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        Deputized’ by the local PD?

        Sergei, as you know so much about Georgia law could you please point me to the Georgia statute that authorizes police departments to deputize citizens? It would be interesting to learn about that process.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          You also need to learn the queen’s English Nazi 69er. The “in effect” part is important.

        2. avatar Miner49er says:

          I’m really not that familiar with Georgia, could you direct me to the part that discusses the idea of a person being deputized “in effect”?

          I had always thought it was a well defined process, and performed only by certain officeholders authorized by statute to deputize citizens.

          Under Georgia law, are municipal police officers empowered to deputize citizens by way of texts?

        3. avatar jwm says:

          miner. I’m not backing serge in this horse race. But under Federal law if a law enforcement officer identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and asks for your assistance and refuse you can be arrested.

          A deputy US Marshal showed me that little gem in the Federal law books. I do not know if anybody has ever been arrested under that law, but it’s there.

        4. avatar pwrserge says:

          You thought wrong 69er. Acting under legal authority is a valid defense.

        5. avatar Chief Censor says:

          @jwm

          That was not in play here.

        6. avatar jwm says:

          cs, I realize that. miner wanted to know about a person being deputized. Apparently under Federal law it is quite easy.

          My brother, like me, is retired. He lives rural. One day a deputy sheriff rolled up on him and some of his senior cronies holding a gabfest. Told those that could to arm themselves and come with him. He had an active burglary in progress.

          Long story short my brother wound up pistol whipping the bad guy who was wrestling one of the instant deputies for control of a shotgun. This was in WV and everybody involved, including the bad guy, were white. Never made the news.

          Ruger Blackhawk .357 makes a good sap.

      2. avatar Chief Censor says:

        You should look into officer Rash. I already gave you a big hint in a video I posted about that department.

    3. avatar Chief Censor says:

      That area is highly corrupt with a good ol’ boy network. Arbery has been harassed by them before. The officer involved with “deputizing” Greg was part of a huge corruption case. The police chief ended up being arrested with many other officers. Law enforcement in that area are not kind to black people, human rights are irrelevant to them.

      It’s no surprise why Greg would behave the way he did and his son would take after him.

      And people wonder why a black man would be angry for constantly being accused of doing something wrong when he wasn’t.

  27. avatar Miner49er says:

    Well, this whole thing must just be another isolated incident, right?

    “LMPD officers launched botched raid on home of Breonna Taylor, 26, in March 
    Officers executed ‘no-knock’ raid on her home just before 1am on March 13 
    Taylor was in bed with her boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, at time of the raid 
    Walker, who was licensed to carry gun, shot at cops, thinking they were burglars
    One of the three officers who raided the home was wounded in the leg
    Cops then returned fire, shooting at least 20 rounds, killing Taylor
    Walker was arrested and charged with attempted murder
    Raid was launched based on search warrant that was approved by a judge
    Warrant cited detective claim that drug dealer used home to receive packages
    But a postal inspector said that no suspicious packages were ever sent to home”

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      You do realize nobody uses the post office to send packages anymore? Right?

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “You do realize nobody uses the post office to send packages anymore? Right?”

        American LEO’s killing innocent woman in bed in her home and that’s all you’ve got?

        Licensed American citizen uses a gun to protect himself from a home invasion and is charged with attempted murder, and all you got is a wisecrack about mailing packages?

        Strange, your defense of citizens’ liberties seems to be somewhat inconsistent, I wonder why?

  28. avatar White Obama Mama says:

    @Miner49er – if it’s really him, goes over a story already covered by TTAG recently. This is a so what, no racial component, and not relevant at all in relation to the Ahmaud Abery case. Also note that the sparsely attended events in Chicago receive little to no national press coverage and blacks shooting and killing other blacks continues same way it has been going on for years. Probably we are seeing Miner49 liberal impersonators spouting left wing garbage. And point is a MARCH that isn’t covered by the national press might as well have never taken place. The Ahmaud Abery thing is just one man while the deaths of thousands of blacks shot dead in Chicago continues and goes on and on. Real problem, to the marching blacks in Georgia, about the Ahmaud Abery case is he was killed by a white man. Get the, hang, a few white men while thousands, maybe over the years, in total a million or more Chicago blacks were shot dead. It’s the politics the marchers in Georgia really care about. Elect the trojan horse Biden so his VP black woman can soon take over. It’s going to be Mrs Obama or Kamala Harris or Stacy Abrams. Should the white men not be found guilty of murder in the Abery case Trump will be to blame as usual. So yeah we get it and know the drill by now. McMichael boys will be sacrificed to the mob’s blood thirst and will be railroaded if there’s any way legally possible.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      “maybe over the years, in total a million or more Chicago blacks were shot dead.”

      Do you really believe that over the years 1 million more black people have been shot dead in Chicago?

      History shows that, over the years, white men have enslaved, maimed and killed millions of bikes, that is a fact.

      Again, help me to understand, who deputized the McMichael’s and under what authority?

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