Time and again laws already on the books could have or should have been used to stop (murderers) from obtaining weapons. From the Sandy Hook shooting to Parkland, Florida, to El Paso and Dayton, law enforcement either had the tools and did not use them to stop these shooters early or the background system worked and these individuals were prevented from legally purchasing a firearm.
It’s sad that many Republicans are even entertaining this unconstitutional, ineffective idea. Red flag laws are an acceleration of taking away a citizen’s constitutional rights with very little if any due process. Conservatives — don’t be fooled! Even if supposedly right-wing organizations produce documents supporting red flag laws or magazine bans, you know that these solutions serve no purpose but to violate the rights of law abiding citizens.
Republicans in office need to know that they will pay a horrendous price if they fall for these false “common sense” initiatives and support Nancy Pelosi’s gun control agenda.
The abuse of our Second Amendment rights will quickly lead to an abuse of our First Amendment rights as well.
– Ed Martin in Red Flag Laws are a False Flag
At the very least, they should be stripped of the “R” after their names!
And realize that the D party will never, ever like the R people….ever. If the R’s vote with the D’s they will be liked for 15 minutes. The east & west coast MSM are 99% D people. They will never like you either. Just look at what they “overlooked” with the Clintons, the Bidens. They bashed Romney for putting a dead dog on the car roof….so what, it was dead. They made fun of Bush when he threw-up at a dinner in Japan. So what….he got sick, we all do. I mostly blame the media. What else are they not telling us?
You know, it sure would be nice if Republicans took a page from the Democrat’s political operative playbook and kept their members in line for votes like the Leftists do…
☝️Socialists do know how to maintain discipline in their ranks.
TO THE GULAG!!!
“TO THE GULAG!!!”
Camden, NJ, will do just fine, thank you…
Because they’re too dumb to think for themselves.
Socialists know how to maintain discipline: untrue. Look at the fracture between the Pelosi and squad wings of the Democrats. Both avowedly socialist. One group admits it freely, the other cloaks it in lies. Not at all disciplined; quite the opposite.
And it is destroying the socialist movement in the US. Let’s not make the same mistake.
“Socialists know how to maintain discipline: untrue. Look at the fracture between the Pelosi and squad wings of the Democrats.”
The discipline is in the voting. Democrats/Socialists (sorry to repeat myself) will not vote against a bill forwarding, or reinforcing, socialist goals.
As for internal squabbles, even AOC found Pelosi could make her life miserable by assigning AOC to so many sub-committees that AOC doesn’t have as much time to grandstand for the cameras. Dims will punish people who get out of line. Republicrats pursue individual agendas.
” Look at the fracture between the Pelosi and squad wings of the Democrats. Both avowedly socialist. ”
I don’t think you could be more wrong.
Pelosi, Schumer, Obama, Biden, Clinton– all definitely NOT socialist. Never were. This is the faction of the D party that has their heads thoroughly planted up Wall Street’s ass. They are all neo-liberal, globalist capitalists firmly wedded to the US as the imperial master of the planet. They dumped the working class a long time ago– somewhere around when Slick Willie was pushing NAFTA. This entire wing of the party is bought and paid for by the 1%. They’re about as far from socialist as can be gotten, though they are certainly no less evil.
The “socialist” wing of the D party belongs to Bernie, and Bernie alone. And even some of his credentials are suspect. AOC and her little band of merry pranksters talk a good line, but a close look at the Green New Deal shows that just about all of the proposed solutions are centered around capital investment with a marginal amount of gubmint regulation. Harris, Klobuchar and Mayor Pete are just a small step removed from the Clinton wing. Warren is just an out-and-out fraud, an opportunist who jumps on whatever trend of the moment might win her a few votes. Her “plans” are little more than political fantasies.
But there really isn’t a true-blue socialist in the lot.
You are right, tho, that the D party is badly fractured. If Bernie does not get the nomination (a pretty sure bet), I predict that the Democrats will split shortly after the convention. Bernie will go full socialist and take AOC and her merry pranksters and Tulsi Gabbard with him. It will be the end of the Democrats.
Ahhhhhh, what a comforting thought!
Most Republican politicians are RINO vote whores. They are perfectly happy with their 2nd class status in DC and are completely cynical about doing whatever they think is necessary to keep their cushy jobs. They long ago decided that keeping their job is the same as doing their job. During the moral panics that always come from spree killings you can count on seeing them compromise their values by trying to ride the crest of opinion generated by the moral panic. Basically, these are people without principles. They are vote whores.
The purpose of the primary system is to weed out the problematic politicians. We need to remind them that those who wave the red flag are the ones most likely to end up on the horns.
One of the best reasons to really push for term limits! Only thing any politician is afraid of.
The only people I will vote for is people who want the repeal of gun control at this point. The other direction instead of just not adding more or adding a little. If they don’t state that current gun laws are unconstitutional on their website or campaign trail I will not vote for them. No point.
Because guess what every democrat here I have known and met tells me they are pro 2A. We should look at republicans the same way. if they don’t have specifics they are probably lying.
Quote: “Because guess what every democrat here I have known and met tells me they are pro 2A. We should look at republicans the same way. if they don’t have specifics they are probably lying.”
Most politicians lie on the campaign trail. All democrats lie when the say “I am pro 2A”.
Even if a democrat occasionally vote “for” a gun bill, it is because they are up for election in a more conservative district.
The rules should be: “Never vote for any democrat for any position.”
and “Eliminate all RINOs in the primaries.”
If they have ever hinted at a “consensus” on gun control boot them out in the primaries.
They are almost all rino’s. That is my point. They say the same things as democrats but people assume they are pro gun until they do something anti gun. There are like 2 or 3 people in the congress who are actually pro gun. Most support current gun laws or expanding the current ones by calling it a fix or a funding to current gun laws.
Really most Republicans support don’t support rights. The only difference is people seem aware of the fact that democrats don’t. I agree. Get rid of the rino’s. I never vote democrat I think most people here don’t.
“Republicans Need to Pay a Price for Support of ‘Common Sense’ Gun Control Laws”
Sounds like fun……
For about five minutes.
Turn the “traitors” out !
Single Issue vote !
How certain are we that the candidates of replacement will be any better? Will be elected? Seventeen so-called “Republicans” are already retiring; opening their seats to challenge in 2020.
It’s what’s known as a “two-edged sword”.
As long as Republicans and Democrats view seats in Congress as viable, lifelong career opportunities nothing fundamental will change. We need a third Party that supports the original Constitutional Republic in both form and intent and has a realistic chance of getting Candidates elected to Office. Good luck with that America!
“We need a third Party…”
To what end?
The problem is not some cosmic mystery. The problem is the message is not resonating with the majority of voters. Creating a third-party, with even fewer adherents accomplishes nothing. Indeed, we have a third-party president. How’s that working?
“The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves….”
There are an alleged 100million gun owners. That should be the end of discussion, right there. However…the number of 2A hard-liners is insignificant, comparably.
If we cannot convince those who should be naturally aligned as 2A defenders to act as a force for an enumerated constitutionally protected natural, civil and human right, how much impact can we intelligently expect a third party to have?
The tens of millions of gun owners who have interests above the Second Amendment tell us an inconvenient truth…the vast majority of the country does not see government as ever being tyrannical, of ever going full Gestapo, of ever needing overthrow. The vast majority of gun owners are telling us they believe they can have a full, free, robust, rewarding life without firearms.
Nice diatribe and exactly why I ended my comment with “Good luck with that America!”.
For the past almost sixty years too many Americans have refused to believe that the Republic could be overthrown and become tyrannical. In the meantime it has been undermined and changed to the point too many Americans believe that the “Government ” is, and should be, the arbiter of our natural rights and liberty.
You may see the challenge, but have no viable solution…possibly because there is none at this point in time…the fault is indeed “in ourselves”.
“Nice diatribe and exactly why I ended my comment with “Good luck with that America!”. ”
Two elements here: diatribe, and good luck
It is not a diatribe when you point out the political realities. Also, the “diatribe” was to illuminate your “Good luck with that…” statement (with which I agree).
@Sam I Am: the first word that popped into my head was “rant”, but it has strong negative inference. The second was “critique”, but it is too weak. So, I used “diatribe” in the hope of causing others to reread your remarks…perhaps too strong. Apologies if it caused you to take offense. Should have taken the “middle path” and used a milder term. Your comment was a good “Illumination”. Sincerely, DerryM
“Apologies if it caused you to take offense”
No offense taken, at all.
“Diatribe” is a negative description, rather like “rant” on steroids. One might use, “laser bright insight”, or “analysis cutting between joint and marrow of the opposition”, or, “searing commentary”, or “a fool and his money are soon parted” (well, maybe not that one).
yeah most people don’t agree believe in or want rights.
The root problem is that the original intent of the Founders, namely that rights and liberty originated with the individual and flows into The People who consent to a form of Government both as individuals and as the The People, has been inverted. Now many of The People accept that the Government is the source and de facto owner of rights and liberty that rightly belongs to the individual and, by extension, to The People. Rights and liberty never belonged to the Government…ever!
“The root problem is that the original intent of the Founders, namely that rights and liberty originated with the individual …. has been inverted.”
14th Amendment.
Prior to that the collective phrase used to indicate the nation began, “The United States are…” After the 14th, the phrase was restructured to read, “The United States is….”
yep.
“…the vast majority of the country does not see government as ever being tyrannical, of ever going full Gestapo…”
Actually, most of them like such an idea on some level. They’re not that interested in “civil rights” as a concept so much as they are in having their own particular belief structure enforced on other people via government. The belief structure may be more in line or less in line with that of 2A folks, but most gun owners are no particular friend to the concept of “rights”. They just have a difference set of preferences on exactly what to enforce.
exactly.
“They’re not that interested in “civil rights” as a concept so much as they are in having their own particular belief structure enforced on other people via government.”
Which in their minds is not “tyranny”, but mere common sense.
I’m actually still waiting to hear a good “common sense” gun law to support. Like mandatory minimum sentences for straw purchasers.
But that will affect people of color disproportionately or something.
These common sense gun laws are a futile, preventative attempt, at reducing gun violence. The Dems strategy appeats to be less “we’ll punish you after being convicted of the crime”, but seems to be more, “don’t do break the law or we’ll put your law abiding ass in jail”. The gun control bills/propositions, before they become law, are like threats. It ain’t accomplishing crap.
Marcus- Mandatory minimums are a horrible idea it allows the state to harm good people, more than the criminals. The 4473 forms no longer carry any weight of law, as I a 6’5 250lbs. White man can now legally lie on a Federal form and say I’m a 5′ black lady.
In new jersey, mandatory minimum sentencing means any armed Citizen traveling through that state would be a fool not to use force on a cop, if pulled over. The Second Amendment and US code 18 242 would make the Citizens’ use of force legal.
Beware of the words “common sense”. It’s the opposite.
We have stated on this website before and it bears repeating:
“Red Flag” laws violate far more than our inalienable right to keep and bear arms — they violate multiple inalienable rights, Constitutionally enumerated rights, and bedrock principles of Common Law in our nation.
For anyone who has not already seen a listing, “Red Flag” laws violate our inalienable rights and bedrock Common Law principles to:
1) presumption of innocence
2) confront our accusers
3) have legal council assist us
4) be present at our legal proceeding
5) present our own evidence and witnesses
6) have a jury of our peers deliver a verdict
“Red Flag” laws violate other inalienable rights and bedrock principles of Common Law as well. At any rate, this list has enough items that should convince everyone to reject the abomination that “Red Flag” laws are.
You’re forgetting that gun owners are second class citizens and don’t deserve inalienable rights.
“You’re forgetting that gun owners are second class citizens and don’t deserve inalienable rights.”
That needs to be rectified, and with luck, Justice Thomas may provide a solid shove in that direction…
“Second Amendment is a ‘disfavored right’ in the Supreme Court, Thomas says in cert-denial dissent”
http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/second_amendment_is_a_disfavored_right_in_the_supreme_court_thomas_says_in
…“If a lower court treated another right so cavalierly, I have little doubt that this court would intervene,” Thomas wrote. “But as evidenced by our continued inaction in this area, the Second Amendment is a disfavored right in this court.”
The 1st amendment is going that way. Now “hate speech” is any speech that is not their speech. Remember when they said “I may disagree with you , but I’ll fight to defend your right to say it”? Hahahah that’s no more.
“At any rate, this list has enough items that should convince everyone to reject the abomination that “Red Flag” laws are.”
Keeping it real……..
Red Flag laws apply to whom? If you are not one of those, what threat do Red Flag laws present?
Anti-gunners (and likely the heavy majority of all voters) see this as a self-healing problem: no gun, no Red Flag law threat. Nice, neat, simple.
You don’t need no stinking rights if you’re not doing anything wrong.
You all falling for it. Red Flag laws are a threat to EVERYONE! You don’t own a gun? How would the police know that for sure? Have you ever pissed off ANYONE? If so, you’d better start sleeping with your clothes on, so when the SWAT team drags you out in the middle of the night, you won’t be laying there naked on your front lawn. This shit has ALREADY HAPPENED! People have ALREADY BEEN KILLED by Red Flag laws. Be careful what you wish for.
“This shit has ALREADY HAPPENED! People have ALREADY BEEN KILLED by Red Flag laws.”
I understand what you are trying to say, but….
So far, how many non-gun owners have been subjected to Red Flag laws? This is why I pointed out how the general population looks at Red Flag laws. Non-POTG generally do not care about Red Flag laws, except as they feel better that someone is doing something to someone in order to keep the neighborhood safe. Things could possibly change when a non-gun owner is targeted under EPRO.
Hey Rex, theyll keep spouting the “it’s you not us” shit till it DOES happen to them. The obvious next move would be blame Trump!
@Sam, “So far, how many non-gun owners have been subjected to Red Flag laws?”
That’s something I have been wondering myself.
Would a team approaching a house on a ERPO where there no records of firearms behave differently?
“Would a team approaching a house on a ERPO where there no records of firearms behave differently?”
The operating theory behind EPROs seems to be that guns abound at the target location, regardless of any statements by complainants.
There are only like five real conservatives in Washington. The rest just use the title to get elected.
No on red flag laws #1, get rid of the R I N O’s #2,
Term Limits #3, more conservative Supreme Court judges #4, & most important,,, VOTE TRUMP #5,,,
MAGA !!!!
One should VERY, VERY how they are punished. Worse than nothing is accomplished if it results in the election of a Democrat, so no flying off the handle or knee-jerking, PLEAS!!!!
The time to punish them is the primaries…but during the election, we need to vote against every single democrat. Republicans can be pushed to support gun rights…democrats are enemies of the 2nd Amendment through and through. Any vote for a democrat is a vote to end the 2nd Amendment….and yes, they want your pump action shotgun and bolt action rifle too……
Leftist love passing tons of laws then never apply them to minorities or their protected classes.
Make ’em pay! But for goodness sakes, do it in the PRIMARY, NOT (!!!) in the general election.
Republicans are afraid of their own shadow. They fear everything. They don’t inspire fear in anyone. Paul Ryan was their low morals degenerate leader. He is responsible for not letting any pro freedom legislation getting voted on for over two years.
And he WAS re-elected.
I was all in for Ryan…family man, religious, health fitness guy. I was shocked to find out what he really was. I’m SOOO over these RINO’s. I have hope in Rand Paul…so far. I liked his dad a lot.
I met Rand Paul at a local republican get together here. One on one with no camera around he was great. Now if we could just find another Republican/ Libertarian to replace McConnell?!?!
“Now if we could just find another Republican/ Libertarian to replace McConnell?!?!”
Anyone got an idea about why we don’t have the kind of politicians we want?
Anyone?
Primary the hell out of the knuckleheads n squishes. Then make sure the R nominee wins, whoever they are. Wash, rinse, repeat.
This actually raises the price for FredoCons. Show some spine and you get the position, and you’re in the majority. Any questions?
This is why we have primaries!
The time to weed out the rinos is during the primary elections, not the general election.
Sorry to interject a brief moment of reality, but any Republican (even ones like Susan Collins, Lindsey Graham or our own beloved Mitch McConnell) is better than whatever Demoncrat is running against them in the general election.
If your district is represented by a rino, the time to act is NOW not a year from now. We need to find and then support a real republican to challenge each rino in the primary election.
“The time to weed out the rinos is during the primary elections…,
Culling is one thing. Winning elections entirely different.
So, let’s take a look at 2018.
Three Republicrat Senators did not run for re-election
34 Republicrat House Members did not run for re-election
Now look at 2020
17 Republicrat members of Congress are not running for re-election.
Summary:
We had ample opportunity in the 2018 to put up firm constitutionalists. Someone ran in place of the Republicrats who didn’t run for re-election. Are we comfortable with the outcome?
Culling is one thing, winning another. And winning with staunch 2A politicians?
I agree with it in principle but… those Republicans are usually the only alternative to a Democrat who would be a thousand times worse.
You also sick of playin “the lesser of two evils” game?
“You also sick of playin “the lesser of two evils” game?”
The Game:
You can’t win, you can’t breakeven, and you can’t quit. The Game rolls on without us.
That’s exactly the game it is and the lesser of two evils is still evil no matter how anybody spins it.
“That’s exactly the game it is and the lesser of two evils is still evil no matter how anybody spins it.”
“Tune in, turn on, and drop out.”
– T. Leary
Something I can’t quite grasp. Common sense to me says if someone intends to use a firearm to commit a crime they are not going to worry a whole lot about committing a crime to get one. Laws against homicides if broken can be punished by death yet that doesn’t prevent homicides. May not even slow them down. So tell me a common sense gun law that carries some penitentiary years gonna do anything but fill up pens. But, maybe that’s the plan all along.
“So tell me a common sense gun law that carries some penitentiary years gonna do anything but fill up pens.”
So long as the bulk convicted are legal gun owners, there is no reason to give notice to actual criminals. Mission Accomplished.
We could vote third party for elections. Libertarian party isn’t an awful idea.
Rand Paul would be a pretty good choice too.
“We could vote third party for elections. Libertarian party isn’t an awful idea.”
The number of failed wistful attempts to create an effective third-party in my lifetime proves the uselessness of the proposition. Third-party votes have two features: failure to accomplish the goal of a real alternative to Republicrats; effectively waste votes that would otherwise frustrate Dimwitocrats.
Third parties are problematical. They usually coalesce around a single individual, not around a well-constructed and coherent political philosophy. Recent examples would be George Wallace in the late ’60s and Ross Perot in the ’90s. The closest we’ve gotten to an actual third party was the Tea Party rebellion, but that was quickly resorbed by the GOP from which it sprang. A more likely scenario is either the D or R party taken over by a faction– pretty much what the Democrats are facing now.
I’m predicting that Bernie will split from the Dems and form a socialist party with AOC and her bunch, and likely take Tulsi Gabbard with them. Bernie is the only candidate with a genuine grass-roots following, so he’s the only one that could pull this off. But that doesn’t guarantee three parties– Bernie’s exit would likely destroy the Democratic party, and we’d be back to two.
Both the Courts and the politicians, Republicans included, follow the polls very closely and right now the polls are not favoring gun ownership in the U.S. The only question remaining after the 2020 elections is simply “How bad is it going to be” for all us gun owners? I shutter to think about it.
Republicans do not give a damned about the Second Amendment any more than the Demon-Rats do. They have been slowly caving to gun control, in the hopes that stupid voters will not notice, but still keep voting for them, simply because they have an “R” behind their name. Both parties know that pesky Amendment keeps them in line. And if this is how both parties are treating Americans NOW, with the populace having weapons and ammunition, one can only imagine (Venezuela, anyone?) how much worse it would get once Americans are effectively disarmed, or killed because they did not give up that right to self-defense.