Marion Hammer: NRA Never Wanted Legal Machine Guns, Bump Fire Stocks

NRA past president Marion Hammer.

Marion Hammer is the president of the United Sportsmen of Florida. She’s also a past president of the National Rifle Association and currently an NRA Lobbyist. She sent the following letter Monday:

DATE:   October 9, 2017
TO:       My Fellow Board & Council Members & Friends
FROM:  Marion Hammer, NRA past president
RE:       Misinformation and Distortion Anger Me

In 1934 the first federal gun control law in America was passed. The National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) became the law of the land. The NRA was asleep at the switch. Most of us hadn’t even been born then. It is not of our making but like all good, honest, law-abiding Americans, the NRA obeys the law. The NFA regulates fully-automatic firearms and has done so for 83 years.

The “bump-stock” device, used by the killer in the Las Vegas shooting, converts a semi-auto rifle to a full-auto rifle. Anyone who has ever used a bump-stock or watched a video demonstrating its use, can only conclude that it is a converter.

If you listened to an audio recording of the shooting during that horrific massacre, you must have concluded that it was full-auto fire. You were not alone, many firearms experts and law enforcement professionals came to the same conclusion. It was not until later that information was released disclosing that bump-stocks had been used to convert semi-automatic firearms to perform like full-auto firearms.

In spite of the seemingly noble reason the manufacturer claims for developing it, the bump-stock circumvents federal law. Regardless of the quality and reliability or lack thereof of this device – it converts a semi-auto to full-auto when installed.

Do you have any idea how many people were shocked out of their minds when ATF decided bump-stocks were not subject to regulation and APPROVED them for sale and use? That was under the Obama administration for crying out loud. Your mind is forced to run wild wondering why.

Once the ruling was made, what would you expect NRA to do? Do you think NRA should have said, Oh! No, ATF is wrong, ATF made a mistake?

It doesn’t matter what laws the NRA doesn’t agree with or doesn’t like, the NRA must abide by the law. For decades, over and over again when the enemies of the Second Amendment have tried to capitalize on tragedies by calling for more gun control, NRA has called for enforcing existing law. That is exactly what we are doing now.

Make no mistake, the NRA has NOT cleared the way for more regulation. If it were not for ATF’s wink and nod to the manufacturer of the bump-stock, it would already be regulated under federal law. NRA has tossed it back into ATF’s lap where it belongs. NRA has not agreed to any new legislation nor has NRA said we agree with any existing NFA legislation. NRA has not agreed to a ban. NRA has not agreed to anything. NRA simply insists upon enforcing existing law.

The enemies freedom and the Second Amendment are spewing hysteria from the podiums they have planted in the blood of innocent victims. These anti-Second Amendment heretics are using these victims as their stalking horse to get some new gun control legislation on the floor of the Congress.

These victims have fallen and are suffering because of the evil acts of a deranged madman who could have carried out his destruction even if bump-stocks were not available under ATF’s approval. He would have found another way.

Don’t blame bump-stocks, don’t blame ATF, don’t blame anybody but the evil people who perpetrated this crime. No law, no regulation stops those with evil in their hearts.

The frantic cries from antagonists who want to take your freedom are intended to stampede you and Congress into supporting more gun control.

But it doesn’t stop there. Is it not clear to you that, just like the media, some members of the NRA Board are misinterpreting what the NRA has said?

Additionally, there are “Trojan horse members” who are deliberately misinterpreting what the NRA has said. Just like having an (R) after your name doesn’t make you a conservative Republican, having an NRA membership card doesn’t make you an honest member.

Be very careful of anti-NRA people claiming to have many supporters who are merely standing in a hall of mirrors and seeing their own reflections. Don’t be fooled.

This fight is not about the personal financial interests of NRA Board members. This fight should not be used by any individual Board member to attack NRA as a means elevate their own popularity with dissidents and “Trojan horse members.”

This particular fight is about following existing law. If you don’t believe that bump-stocks convert semi-autos to full-autos then you have not seen what I have seen. While the conversion may be reversible by removing and replacing the device, it none less makes a semi-auto perform like a full-auto when installed.

We do not need new legislation, we do not need new regulation, we simply need ATF to review it’s previous approval and enforce existing law. That’s what NRA said. That will render bump-stocks irrelevant. There is no need for Congress to be stampeded into doing anything else. No matter how you twist it, or what your own personal agenda may be, the NRA has not compromised.

If ATF won’t do it on its own, President Trump should order ATF to review it’s ruling made under the Obama administration.

We should stand united. We need to enforce existing law. We don’t need any new gun control legislation. Any member of Congress who wants to sacrifice more of our freedom under the pretense of providing safety should know that we don’t forgive the betrayal of freedom or the Second Amendment and we won’t give a wink and a nod to political eye wash as a substitute for backbone.

The only legislation we need to see on the floor of Congress right now is carry reciprocity and elimination of suppressor regulations.

Marion Hammer

As a NRA member I am saddened by the position Hammer has taken. Claiming that a bump fire stock converts a semi-atutomatic rifle into a machine gun is utterly false.

Furthermore berating and lecturing NRA members who are publicly raising concerns about the NRA’s position is offensive. Members have the right to question what the NRA is doing since they’re members. They pay dues, they vote, they contribute, they donate. The NRA is what it is because of its members. Without them, the NRA is an empty shell.

The NRA has publicly stated that bump fire stocks need to be further regulated.

Now Florida Rep. Carlos Curbelo (R) and nine other Republicans  have introduced a bump fire stock ban bill in the House of Representatives. It’s the companion bill to a ban proposed by proposed by California Senator Diane Feinstein.

Both are bad, but Curbelo’s bill is more so because Republicans are rushing to co-sponsor it. The bill would be a . . .


The word ‘and‘ is dangerous. Any semiautomatic firearm can be made to bumpfire. Any semiautomatic firearm is a “part or combination of parts”. This wording is a potential slippery slope that can lead to a ban on the legal ownership of semiautomatic firearms.

The NRA’s actions and statements have given the green light to every wanna-be gun-grabber in Congress, letting them know that further regulation is not just okay, but needed.

The NRA is placing blame on a piece of plastic rather than the Las Vegas shooter. Neither the bump fire stock or an AR-15 decided to kill anyone last week. It was Stephen Paddock who who did that. The NRA’s stance is directly from the playbook of the anti-2A groups.

Have any doubts? Nancy Pelosi has already made the other side’s true intentions clear:

“(Gun owners are going to) say, ‘You give them bump stock, it’s going to be a slippery slope.’ I certainly hope so.”



  1. avatar rc says:

    It’s almost like the NRA and these GOP turncoats couldn’t wait to throw 2A proponents under the bus. They need to get slapped back to reality, hard. I’m seriously considering dropping my NRA membership over this (and I just re-upped). I think we’ll need to start lighting up the phones of Congress-critters as well. A very clear message needs to be sent.

    1. avatar nativeson says:

      I think the NRA exists not to protect our gun rights but to line their pockets with our money. I doubt that I’ll renew my membership after they’ve shown that they’re willing to compromise away my rights.

      1. avatar Robert Hanlin says:

        It really sucks for me because I am a life member! I sent a letter off to the BOD’s but doubt it will matter much! I am disgusted with this woman’s interpretation. she is a paid lobbyist of the NRA for crying out loud, of course she’s going to try and pacify the situation! In my eyes, ‘shall not be infringed’ means I can posses anything that is legal to own PERIOD! How stupid is it to place blame on the tool and not the tools user???

        1. avatar ActionPhysicalMan says:

          Me too, I already paid for a Life Membership and wish I could get it back. I was stupid.

        2. avatar Stinkeye says:

          “In my eyes, ‘shall not be infringed’ means I can posses anything that is legal to own PERIOD!”

          If you accept the “anything that is legal to own” caveat, doesn’t that pretty much negate the “shall not be infringed” part? If you accept that the government gets to define what a “legal” firearm is, you’re accepting infringement.

          What “shall not be infringed” really means that the government doesn’t have the authority to decide on what’s legal or not. Is it arms? Then get on with keepin’ and bearin’ it.

        3. avatar HP says:

          As a life member, you can vote for the NRA Board of Directors candidates. There are varying opinions on the NRA board; read about the members and vote for who you agree with. Might as well try to change the organization for the better, no?

        4. avatar Ardent says:

          I’m also a life member…who is considering resigning his membership over this. The NRA’s possition is wrong; for both gun rights and politics, but that’s not why I’m reconsidering my membership. Insulting those of us who are ‘absolutists’ while impuning our motives and commitment is unconscionable. Now either the NRA must disavow both it’s possition on the issue and Marion Hammer, or lose membership and support. This is disgusting!

        5. avatar Robert Hanlin says:

          I think we can all agree what ‘legal to own’ encompasses.. A nuclear device or chemical weapons would be a justified ‘non’ legal device. There are very few weapons that you cannot own and I am satisfied with that.

        6. avatar Kenneth G Maiden says:

          It wont! And ole Wayne will continue to draw that huge paycheck as will. If this con gets signed into law, the list of unintended consequences will grow and grow.

        7. avatar Stinkeye says:

          “There are very few weapons that you cannot own and I am satisfied with that.”

          Would you be satisfied with it if you lived in one of the states where you can’t own a handgun that holds more than 10 rounds, or a non-neutered semiautomatic rifle?

          Sure, *we* might agree on what a “legal” weapon is. But once you let the government define what “legal” means, you open the door for people like Dianne Feinstein to change the definition. Make no mistake, if they ever get enough power, “legal” will look a lot like what’s legal in places like the UK. It’s far better, I think, to have “shall not be infringed” actually mean “shall not be infringed”. It’s a pretty clear and unambiguous phrase.

      2. avatar Shotgun Sam says:

        “I think the NRA exists not to protect our gun rights but to line their pockets with our money.”

        Well duh!

        And in other news, all that wet stuff on earth is water.

        1. avatar little horn says:

          why would you act like that to someone who joined your conclusion?? were you home schooled?

        2. avatar Stinkeye says:

          If anything, little horn, poor manners are usually a sign of a public school “education”.

        3. avatar Tracey Smith says:

          Reply to stink eye…If Little horn’s comment is because of a “public school” education then I cheer. I becomes obvious that not only are we turning out THINKERS, but individuals who can distinguish crap from TRUTH! GUN CONTROL NOW!!! And Marion Hammer, well her justice is yet to come, somewhere very hot I would assume.

      3. avatar Turd Furgeson says:

        Have a read of the above post.

        NRA can operate just fine without member dues anymore. They’re primary focus is on money, under the guise of “fighting” for our rights.


        all with the NRA blessing.

        The board of the NRA uses the fear of gun control to bring in the cash. They showed how they really feel by attributing some blame to a device rather than wholly on the perpetrator.

        What’s next? By extension, the gun grabbers could point to Chiraq as a failure of the 4473 forms and say the ATF must review those now.

        Damn right slippery slope, and the NRA provided the grease.

    2. avatar John Boch says:

      Blah blah blah.

      Like Marion Hammer has done so much for Florida’s gun owners in the past ten or twenty years.


    3. Marion Hammer is no better than the evil corrupt people of
      ‘A Bad Day at Black Rock” movie who could not tolerate others who did not think like she does. She is a malicious, horrible person who disgraces the democratic principles, and the Bible….and she should be shunned.

    4. avatar Matthew Brown says:

      Join Gun owners of America.. They are actually going after legislation in Florida about devises that increase the rate of fire and other things. NRA is only going after the age limit. You can subscribe to the GOA or just sign up for alerts. They pre-write letters to senators, representatives, congressmen and the president. Just give them a try I promise you won’t be disappointed.

  2. avatar Roman of Texas says:

    Well……now I wonder why I ever signed up to be a part of the NRA. Things like this, they lead to a bad place for us as Americans. NFA as is shouldn’t be allowed. But that’s just echoing whats been said here hundreds of times. I think gun owners need to put the NRA in its place.

    1. avatar The Punisher says:

      But, just as the NRA and most other people say, “well, but, but, it’s the law.” And we MUST be “law abiding citizens at all costs.” Right?

      I mean who are we measly peasants and slaves to even think to criticize “the law”?

      When the extent of your argument is: “Do this!, Don’t do that!” and the question, “why?” is asked and the answer is, “Because I said so!” Then you know you are on bad footing…

      And that’s exactly what we have here, writ large. And not just on the topic of guns or 2A…it’s everything and everywhere.

      Once you can make an object “illegal” or claim someone is a criminal or “felon” for merely possessing something, saying something or ingesting something that causes no harm to another party then you’ve already gone down the road to tyranny.

      1. It’s shamefully unfortunate that the distinction between what is “illegal” and what is “unlawful” has fallen prey to the “leaders” of our nation due to their ignorance and disrespect of our #Constitutional protections as written.
        So many times I can only question whether those that pledge their oaths to support and defend our inalienable natural rights have even read our #Constitution and have been taught the historical precepts on which our Founders built the foundation they charged us to keep and preserve…
        We are only partly to blame for allowing this destructive evolution, for trusting our government has only become the critical danger it is today fairly recently. We can’t ignore how fragile our freedoms have become any longer and I question if we will ever be able to consider trust anything more than a rope which we will someday hang from…
        “Never forget everything Hitler did in Germany was legal…”
        Martin Luther King, letter from Birmington jail
        Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum, GH

  3. avatar CLarson says:

    The NRA is doing an NFL. This will end badly. Seriously the NRA should just keep calm and carry on, because the hysteria is already shifting to the authorities lack of response. Let the Republican establishment hang themselves on gun regulation, the NRA should be looking at the future and fund primary challengers like Paul Nehlen.

    Paul Nehlen On Bump Fire And Suppressors
    “GOP Leaders Shouldn’t Cave To Liberals On Gun Control”

    1. avatar Joe R. says:

      The NRA has obviously been infected by too many liberal POS (D) they are a scourge and a poison and the absolutely bring ruin wherever they go and to whatever they touch.

      This is total Saul Alinsky Rules for Radicals for destroying from within. They need to be driven out.

  4. avatar El Bearsidente says:

    Breivik didn’t need a bumpstock to score 67 kills with his rifle. So going after those is absolutely pointless. The only real option for the Democrats would go for an all out semi-auto ban, which they don’t seem to dare. Yet.

    And even that won’t change anything. Austria, 2016, one man banned from owning firearms and an illegal rifle still scored 3 kills and 11 wounded.

    1. avatar HP says:

      “The only real option for the Democrats would go for an all out semi-auto ban, which they don’t seem to dare. Yet.”

      When the Democrats again control both houses of Congress and have the Presidency (and this WILL happen at some point), expect the semi-auto ban and then some. If the left has shown us one thing since Trump won, it’s that they are out of patience. They are enraged that anything is standing in the way of their agenda, so expect them to skip pesky things like the constitution and procedure when enacting new legislation. Think the SCOTUS will save us? They’ll just ignore it. They’re already doing it in NYC. They just need to expand what’s happening there to everywhere else.

  5. avatar Joe R. says:

    The NRA is obviously the POS liberal AARP, and someone should pick one up and beat the other to death with it.

  6. avatar Gman says:

    Holy pile of deep poop Batman. The entire conversation is being run by progressives!
    We lose. The Constitution loses. Freedom loses.

  7. avatar FedUp says:

    To paraphrase/summarize Mrs Hammer:

    “As a paid lobbyist for Wayne LaPierre, I’d like to say that Wayne is right and everybody who disagrees with him is harming the 2A movement. You amateurs need to STFU and let us professionals do our jobs.”

    1. avatar Tim says:

      Oh damn. The truth hurts.

  8. avatar Nanashi says:

    I warned you about the NRA long before Vegas happened.

  9. avatar stateisevil says:

    LMAO. All Republicans and Trump supporters are so so gullible. What Obama and the Demoncrats couldn’t do, the GOP will! LOL. Some will even cheer because a red penis is doing the raping. Hahahah

    1. avatar Joe R. says:

      Not a total loss, you can never thank the enemy enough for singling itself out of a ‘crowd’. All of the POS (D) were a [known] total loss (and absolute targets, come the next civil uprising or war), but it’s been a blessing to have the POS (R) laser target themselves for us.

      Mischief Managed.

  10. avatar Ralph says:

    “Any semiautomatic firearm can be made to bumpfire.”

    The problem with bump-fire stocks isn’t that they turn semi-auto into full auto. That assertion is absurd. The problem with them is that they make all semi-autos, and not just AR pattern rifles, too scary for the great unwashed to even contemplate without a total meltdown of their little brains.

    When wood-stocked, hunting oriented semi-auto rifles engender the same degree of fear and loathing as ARs currently do, all semi-autos will be banned.

  11. avatar Joe R. says:

    Never let a community organizer (individual or group) get or (try to ) do the job of a Conservative neighbor shouldering the fitful responsibility of representing you in any fashion.

  12. avatar Stereodude says:

    Who is surprised by an elitist talking down to the plebes? We should just be grateful that our betters have allowed us to keep what we have. 😉

  13. avatar rc says:

    Mac’s latest video covers this well:

  14. avatar Tim says:

    OK so any semi auto can be made to bump fire. True.

    But these bump fire stocks make it easier to do and potentially for longer bursts.

    I think that is really the point of those on the anti side of the argument. They are doing an abysmal job explaining that however.

    1. avatar Stinkeye says:

      No, the point of those on the anti-2A side is to try to get some rash, poorly-written and ill-conceived gun control legislation jammed through before the blood they’re dancing in dries up. That’s it. If that shithead hadn’t used a bumpfire stock, they’d be trying to use this tragedy to ban something else.

  15. avatar TommyJay says:

    Good Lord! Ms. Marion can’t even get the name straight. All stocks bump. Bump-fire stocks fire when they bump.

    Calling on the ATF to twist existing regs. is really stupid and sets a dangerous precedent. And I would support legislation, IF it is written really narrowly. E.g. prohibiting telescoping, spring-loaded stocks, with a stock attached finger rest.

    1. avatar Scoutino says:

      There is no spring in bump fire stocks. That would be illegal according to BATF.

  16. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

    I sent my Rep Paulsen (R) the following email:
    Congressman Paulsen,
    I was both shocked and infuriated to see your name attached to Carlos Carbelo’s gun control ban. I’ll give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you know so little about guns and the anti-American gun control agenda, that I’ll take the time to educate you about the existential threat to the Second Amendment this bill really is.
    Just a few points-
    The bill calls for the banning (and felony prosecution) for the possession of anything that increases the “rate of fire” in a sled loading firearm (semi auto).
    Would you care to cite the universally accepted “rate of fire”, as it now stands? If you can’t, there are folks who will perceive your participation in this legislation as a TREASONOUS attempt at usurping the Second Amendment.
    Do you realize that there’s an entire industry that exists for after market triggers? And that since your legislation (and it is now YOUR anti-gun legislation) doesn’t specifically define products and accessories, this bill becomes an open ended poisonous law that will be forever expanded and exploited by gun grabbing Liberal Terrorists™, posing as reasonable democrats, and unelected traitors at the ATF, until all semi autos are banned.
    We are all saddened and outraged by what an individual lunatic in Las Vegas did. But I’m not peacefully going to surrender my God given, unalienable, Constitutional Rights, because of some knee jerk reaction to the murderous actions of a vile man.
    As my representative, I pledge and promise to you, that if you don’t immediately rescind your affiliation with this bill, that not only will I never support you in the future, I will make it my life’s work to destroy your political career, in return for your betrayal.
    Please take 10 minutes and educate yourself on why this bill is as bad as I suggest and not partisan hyperbole. This video explains it much better than I can.

  17. avatar MDH says:

    This is a no win argument. As Gman pointed out in a recent post, the left has once again managed to frame the conversation in their own terms, promoting their anti-constitutional, anti-gun agenda.

    As a result of someone using a gimmick accessory in the commission of a mass atrocity – and the left blaming the gimmick accessory rather than rightly placing responsibility with a criminal perpetrator , we now have legislation pending which may directly impact the entire firearms industry, and (actually) useful parts and accessories which have nothing to do with bump stocks.

    Most firearms owners could give a rats ass about bump stocks. However, our firearms, and our constitutional rights to keep and bear arms are off limits.

    Marion Hammer needs to STFU.

    1. avatar Gman says:

      And this is why Robert needs to add a thumbs up counter!

      1. avatar Rick the Bear says:


        1. avatar Gman says:

          A man of few words.

    2. avatar Ing says:

      Another thumbs-up.

    3. avatar SouthAl says:

      Another thumbs up.

      Also, {strike}the left blaming the gimmick accessory{/strike} the left and the NRA blaming the gimmick accessory FIFY

    4. avatar SouthAl says:

      Another thumbs up.

      “the left and the NRA blaming the gimmick accessory”

  18. avatar Gman says:

    I’m pretty sure you slipped on that slippery slope and banged your head. Stand up and shake it off. Now look back at that slope and see what’s at the top.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    And whom do you think the security of a free State we shall fight? And what do you think they might bring to the fight? The founders warned us that the body of the People need to be armed for a reason and I for one don’t want to bring a knife to a machine gun fight.

  19. avatar DoomGuy says:

    EXPLETIVES DELETED and all the other elitist traitors in the NRA and the GOP

    1. avatar DoomGuy says:

      Sorry about the expletives. I’m furious at what’s happening.

  20. avatar former water walker says:

    “We support the LAW-no matter how effed up and evil it is”…I am not a paid NRA member. Mine was free courtesy of Taurus. And I am not a registered Republican on purpose. Both are digging there own graves. Molan Labe…😡

  21. avatar Soylent Green says:

    define “increase the rate of fire”. Technically none of devices increase the rate of fire of the firearm, physics limits the top end rate of fire. These devices only allow users to approach the “base max rate of fire of the firearm” but none of the devices change that data point. Next thing they specify a user rate limit, then an capacity limit, then an accuracy limit, then, then, etc…

    Really the bump-fire stock is not the device to fall on our sword for, however, the principle of why it should be left alone, is completely worth it.

    1. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

      I’m co-opting this response and will be reposting it everywhere. Why? Because it is…….perfect. Thank you in advance 😀

    2. avatar Gman says:

      I’ve been trying to make that point all along. From the previous post…

      Faster than what? The cyclic rate of fire is what it is. It is a function of the energy imparted by the round, mass of the BCG, tension of the RSA and friction. Without changing any of those factors the RoF cannot be changed. Most of us are operating a Ferrari as if it was a school bus but the Ferrari was and is always under there someplace just waiting for someone to tear off that big yellow skin and see the beautiful red underneath.

      1. avatar John in AK says:

        In this situation, pedantry and technical word-use precision are about as useful as arguing with Dianne Feinstein whether or not ‘high-capacity clip’ is correct usage over ‘standard-capacity magazine.’ It’s useless, and completely irrelevant. She does not CARE.
        The point of a bump-fire stock, or any similar device, is to enable a semi-automatic repeating firearm to operate at a speed generally understood to be higher than that capable of being achieved by an unaided human finger. To the laymen, those faceless voters that decide which representatives to elect and what they are ultimately to legislate, it is ridiculous to say, no matter how ‘right’ it may technically be, that a device that increases the speed at which a firearm can be fired beyond the ‘norm’ doesn’t increase the ‘rate of fire.’ Explain it all day long, and watch the eyes glaze over–because nobody CARES. All that needs to be said is that the device enabled this killer to fire more rapidly than he would have been able to fire without it.
        Thus endeth the argument.
        Even throwing the Magical Finger of Jerry Miculek into the argument isn’t going to change anything. He’s not human, so get over it. No human finger is that fast.
        Today, in the Here and Now, what matters is that some a**hole used a range toy on a firearm in a very, VERY ‘bad’ way, and whatever technicalities are involved just DO NOT MATTER.
        This is a battle best won by losing it. Nitpicking about whether or not the devices really DO ‘make machine guns’ is not a hill to die upon; It’s just not worth it, and that bridge has been burned. WE know that they don’t; Nobody else really cares.
        The best course of action would be to STRONGLY get behind this poorly-written bill, let the paid government hirelings we elect do their phony political posturing with all due fervor, and get the thing re-written so that it makes SENSE.
        Surely someone at the NRA has some legal training and can write a cogent, precise, and limited law. This could be a Golden Opportunity to turn a turd into a lump of gold–unless everybody chooses to die upon that hill instead.

        1. avatar Ing says:

          You could be right.

          Republicans are tripping over themselves to line up with Democrats and pass a bill that bans these devices. We’re going to get handed a turd no matter what — so maybe the NRA, recognizing that, is going to do what it does best and lobby for a polished turd that at least isn’t overtly poisonous. It sticks in my craw because I think we ought to be able to do better than that, but politicians being what they are, maybe it’s the best we can hope for.

    3. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Soylent Green and Gman,

      Outstanding! Since neither a trigger upgrade nor a bump-stock increases the rate-of-fire of a firearm, then their proposed law will apply to nothing, except for a lighter bolt carrier group, reduced force recoil spring, or increased gas/piston return.

      Okay, come to think of it, we have to oppose their legislation no matter what. If the courts interpret “rate-of-fire” as anything that helps an operator fire faster, then that would apply to everything from bump-fire stocks, to triggers, to bolt-carrier groups, recoil springs, gas/piston returns, etc. And if the courts interpret “rate-of-fire” in a strict Physics sense, that still means bolt-carrier groups, recoil springs, and gas/piston return components would all be banned.

      1. avatar Gman says:

        to uncommon and John in AK – Go back two blogs and read my posts. It has nothing to do with the current conversation. All of your points mean nothing…

        This was the time to ask the Constitutional question, why can’t we have machine guns? And that conversation makes this one moot.

        1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Agreed Gman!

          And see my question to the NRA near the bottom of the comments to this article.

  22. avatar Joe R. says:

    IT IS WRONGFUL, not just “wrong” for the NRA to hold out to the members, and the ‘public’ that it is a catch-all rights supporter, and then for it to overtly or covertly, assert that it is not. I smell a lawsuit.

  23. avatar JasonM says:

    The word ‘and‘ is dangerous.

    The word ‘and’ is safer than ‘or’. Or only requires one condition to be true to get the result. And requires all conditions. So in this case a device designed to increase rate of fire that did not do so in practice or a device that did so in practice, but was not designed to do so (kinda like how the pistol brace wasn’t designed to use as a stock, but it’s still legal when we ‘hold it wrong’) would be perfectly legal. If the wording was ‘or’ both of those devices would be illegal.

    1. avatar Gman says:

      An introduction to Boolean Logic… I live and die by it.

      Don’t ever ask me a compound question, you probably won’t understand the answer.

    2. avatar Gman says:

      I prefer nand and nor.

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        How dare you slight XOR! The nerve of some people.

  24. “NRA has tossed it back into ATF’s lap where it belongs. ”

    To toss it back, the NRA would have had to embrace it at one point. She sounds like she thinks the NRA is an executive body out to support enforcement of laws rather than an advocacy group more in line with the legislative and judicial branches.
    It’s a sad day in the United States when the ACLU sides with freedom more so than the NRA.

  25. avatar Icabod says:

    “NRA has tossed it back into ATF’s lap where it belongs.”
    No. No you haven’t. The NRA has nowhere said “This matter should not be subject to legislation. ATF approved the bump stock and they should revisit it.”
    Instead, the NRA has been heard as saying “Yea, go ahead and ban bumpstocks.”

  26. avatar Darkstar says:

    Anyone here ever read the book “Unintended Consequences” by John Ross? Out of print and kind of hard to find, but kind of relevant these days, given this kind of stuff.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      It is out of print because printing companies like to make money, and the entire book is available online for free. OTOH, I am not surrendering my dead-tree copy. But if anyone here has NOT read it at least once (I’m considering read #3), you really should take the time, and it is a lot of time, the book is YUGE. Have a weekend free, it is difficult to put down.

  27. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    As I said before on TTAG cowards are throwing the bumpstock under the bus, even before the NRA said a thing.

    The bumpstock is the poor mans machine gun. There is video after video of very wealthy white men owning and shooting machine guns on TTAG and other gun web sites. The Second Amendment is not just for poor people. It very interesting how wealthy gun people are always promoting AR-15 ownership. But 95% of all indoor ranges won’t let you fire any large caliber rifle at their range. I know of only two indoor ranges in middle Tennessee that accept 223 or higher caliber weapons.

    The NRA range in Washington DC is reported to have banned bumpstock AR-15’s. Did they ban machine guns at their range as well?????????

    The only reason why I wanted an AR15 was because I could get a bumpstock for it.
    The guns community mask is coming off.

  28. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    Monumentally important question to the NRA: which “law of the land” are you advocating that we follow?

    — National Firearms Act of 1934, Gun Control Act of 1968, and Hugh’s Amendment of 1986, which are all laws of Congress?

    — or —

    — United States Constitution (Second Amendment inclusive) which is the Supreme Law of the Land (even prevailing over laws of Congress to the contrary)?

  29. avatar Curtis in IL says:

    Sorry Marion, but I’m sick of your posturing that is insincere at best.

    ATF ruled correctly on bumpfire stocks. The NRA should have kept its mouth shut and done what it does best – work with Congresscritters to make sure any legislation comng out of this tragedy doesn’t infringe on my rights, and if they want to move bumpfire stocks under NFA control, negotiate to get something more important in return, such as hearing protection or national right-to-carry reciprocity.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      Right! Even if a ban on bump-fire stocks is a fait accompli, she should be helping us turn a small loss into a net gain, not lecturing us on how we don’t need those things and shouldn’t want them anyway.

      Hammer’s letter reads to me like a fossilized conservative’s cry for retaining the old accustomed order, just like a Fudd hunter telling us that we don’t need 30 bullets and shouldn’t want an AR-15. This lady is a relic. A museum piece. A dried-out husk with a legacy behind her and no present principles.

  30. avatar MattG says:

    So out of one side of her mouth she is saying we should enforce existing laws, and then out of the other side of her mouth she is saying the ATF should ignore existing law. So… are we enforcing the existing law or no?

  31. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    So only the wealthy should have a rapid fire type firearm????
    Thank you for your honesty including those on TTAG who say a bumpstock ban is ok.
    And no talk about the HPA or anything else.

  32. avatar John says:

    No matter your position on bumpfires, leaving NRA makes it harder to change it. For those with a vote, Get mad! Say something. If not a voting member, Put up the $ and become voting member. Call BOD and demand change in stance of the organization. Vote for new BOD members with your position / stance. Only way to make it work / change.

  33. avatar CZJay says:


    Never was and never will be… a NRA member.

  34. avatar rc says:

    This is a great read and makes the points we all know are true about what LaPierre and Cox have just done:

  35. avatar Richard Steven Hack says:

    It’s sad that an NRA director doesn’t know the difference between semi-auto and full-auto…

    A bump fire devices does NOT turn a semi-auto firearm into a full-auto firearm. It merely makes the semi-auto weapon fire in semi-auto fashion faster.

    I too tend to agree that it’s not a good idea to abandon the NRA. Instead, members who are angered by the NRA’s stance on this should flood the organization with complaints and THREATS to abandon it . And then for the next leadership election, put up people who will do better.

    The only alternative is to form a counter-organization which would take years to build to the level of influence the existing NRA has.

  36. avatar Marcus (Aurelius) Payne says:

    “Misinformation and Distortion Anger Me”

    “The “bump-stock” device, used by the killer in the Las Vegas shooting, converts a semi-auto rifle to a full-auto rifle.”

    “If you don’t believe me then you haven’t seen what I’ve seen”

    What the fuck have you seen? Because it’s not the fucking definition of “full-auto!”

  37. Ad hominem warning:

    That haircut says all you need to know about this “woman”. She makes Angela Merkel look good.

  38. avatar Mad Max says:

    I’m an NRA Benefactor Life Member and carefully review the candidates for the Board of Directors each year and vote for the candidates that appear to be the closest to being 2A absolutists.

    I just hope the NRA continues to staunchly oppose any new gun control laws and works to repeal the old ones.

    Prior to the Vegas incident, I was about to make a contribution to the NRA. I think I’ll do a GOA life membership instead.

    1. avatar Robert Hanlin says:

      I keep reading that people think the NRA’s proposal was a ‘Stroke of Genius’ on their part thus placing the pressure on the gun haters to put up or shut up. Nothing could be further from the truth! What the NRA has done is embolden the “fence sitters’ in the senate and congress to do something they never would have before.. Think about it. The largest gun lobby in the country is now pushing (for all intense and purposes) for firearm control! What a gift to any republican senator or congressman who was afraid to do anything! They can simply pass the blame to the NRA for bolstering them to take action! The NRA has BETRAYED our trust and we cannot rely on the president to stand tough for our rights either..! He’s now the president…! He’s been elected…! My hope is that he fulfills the promise he made in front of all the NRA members that were in attendance at the annual meeting and strike down any legislation that puts controls on our 2nd Amendment rights!!!

  39. avatar Hasaf says:

    Any thoughts o the letter below, to be sent to various representatives?

    I am writing to you to express my disapproval with thee “bumpfire” ban bill, as it is currently written.

    My concern is with the wording of the bill and its potential implications. IN particular I am concerned with the bills impact on law abiding target shooters.

    The wording that concerns me is, unfortunately, the very core of this bill:
    “or any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun”

    As there is no standard definition of “rate of fire” I am concerned that this bill could be used to ban match (target) triggers. Match triggers are frequently designed to reduce the distance that a trigger must travel before releasing the sear. This could, negligibly, increase the rate of fire.

    As you are no doubt aware, many variants of the AR-15, and other semi-automatic rifles are frequently used in target shooting. I am concerned that this bill could result on a ban on these target rifles. I see nothing in this bill that relieved this concern.

    Because on the potential impact of law abiding shooters, I ask you to oppose this bill.

    1. avatar Robert Hanlin says:

      Besides a few spell check fixes, it reads fine but a bit too PC for my tastes. These turn coats need to know that we are pissed and not just ‘annoyed’ with them!

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      “or any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun”

      Does anybody in congress have a license to read English? I am pretty sure that EVERY part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory to most any gun is, in fact, designed. The way this is worded, then, outlaws ALL of them. Maybe the quote is wrong, what it should say is “designed to or functions to …” but I am not sure it does not say exactly what it means, to be discovered after passage.

  40. avatar Jeff says:

    Machine guns are “arms,” as the word appears in the Second Amendment. Discussion over.

  41. avatar Kim T. Curtis says:

    The BATFE IS following the LAW! One shot with each pull of the trigger is the law! The bump stock, whether it increases the rate or fire or not IS LEGAL because, it remains a one shot with each pull of the trigger addition!
    ANYONE who thinks otherwise is an idiot!
    If Marion P. Hammer sees it differently, she is entitled to her opinion, even if she’s wrong! Unfortunately, she IS a Lobbyist for the NRA! WE, as members of the NRA need to get her head set squarely on her shoulders! We need to either get her on board with what IS THE LAW or get her OUT! One or the other, there is no in-between!
    I am a Life Member of the NRA and I DO NOT like what I’m seeing from my organization! I say MY organization because, it is US, members of the NRA who are the controllers of what is being done in our name, just like it is WE (US) the people of the United States of America that SHOULD be voting our conscience instead of leaving old war horses in Congress who DO NOT do OUR bidding!
    This is the ONLY reason we are in the situation we are in! WE have NOT done OUR job, which is a part of the plan! WE have to tell these people HOW to vote by our emails, phone calls and, if need be, by our votes when they come up for re-election!
    IF we stop doing our part we end up with this kind of thing happening over and over! We CANNOT expect to allow this to happen and expect a different outcome from the same actions!
    If you are an NRA member, stop bitching about this on the Social Media websites! Call the NRA offices and make THEIR phone lines burn with our outrage!
    I have done this and I can’t do it all by myself! YOU MEMBERS are responsible for what is done in our name, so go to the phones and do your jobs! Get it done so the NRA, as a whole knows we are NOT happy Campers, NOT happy gun owners and certainly, NOT happy NRA members!

  42. avatar Cstrick says:

    Folks, Marion Hammer fought the NFA when it passed. She got into lobbying after nobody listened to her when she said it would be bad law. She wrote Castle Doctrine, which passed in Florida first where she pushed it and then spread to most of the states. She is a tireless defender of what matters to us all. She sent an email before this one saying she opposed the NFA but since it is the law of the land, and full autos are not legal, devices that make them act like full autos should not be either. We will lose this one, but should we cut off our noses to spite our faces? We had the SHUSH act ready to pass and get at least suppressors, if not reciprocity. Those are more important to me than a piece of plastic that’s basically a toy.

    I own a range, teach thousands and am a supporter of repealing the NFA, but, that said, we argue with the left that the AR platform is NOT an assault rifle because it is not full auto, then we support putting a piece of plastic on it to make it basically so. What is our argument then?

    I wish we lived in a world where we didn’t have to compromise, but we don’t. So this is the thing you want to throw away our most influential and historical leaders for? This? Come on….

  43. avatar Delta says:

    Sure the NRA has to follow the law but then don’t we all? But there is a difference between being law abiding and being PC Politically Correct. If we try to be PC the liberal Dems have already won. Playing by thier rules. NRA is supposed to bring knowledge where there is ignorance and work within the law to restore our ever dwindling rights under the 2A. “I’m sorry that gun or accessory is too dangerous for you” doesn’t sit well with me. “Thank you nameless and faceless government official for looking out for me”. Makes me sick. When we know as the NRA does mechanically anyone can change anything to full auto if laws aren’t of concern. My take. Not an inch not one more inch.

  44. avatar Barkley Henson says:


  45. avatar Kel says:

    This was an interesting read, if not applicable in our culture.

    When I go to the range, I now only hit golf balls.

  46. avatar Matthew Brown says:

    Join Gun owners of America.. They are actually going after legislation in Florida about devises that increase the rate of fire and other things. NRA is only going after the age limit. You can subscribe to the GOA or just sign up for alerts. They pre-write letters to senators, representatives, congressmen and the president. Just give them a try I promise you won’t be disappointed.

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