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Florida recently passed a law making it harder to prosecute people who defend themselves with firearms. The law builds on a trend started with an Arizona law that codified the defensive display of a firearm as legal. The Arizona law had been prompted by criminals’ use of the criminal justice system to punish people who had foiled their crimes by displaying a firearm in self defense. This Coos Bay, Oregon case, though it did not receive official sanction, shows how attackers are only too happy to try to use the law to get back at their intended victims . . .
In the Oregon case, two homeless men attacked a homeowner who they believed had reported them to the authorities. The attack occurred about 3 a.m.
The two transients believed the man had reported them to the Bureau of Land Management as trespassers, the sheriff said.
Killingsworth and Moore took turns hitting the victim with the bat, causing extensive head, face and back injuries, the sheriff’s office said.
In an attempt to escape after the attack, the victim grabbed a shotgun from his home and fired two rounds into the air, the sheriff said.
The two suspects fled to a nearby residence and called police to report that they had been shot at.
In this case, the police arrested the two attackers and transported the badly injured victim to the hospital. Shotgun rounds (birdshot) fired into the air are virtually harmless. They are a case where the shooter can be certain that a warning shot will do no harm.
There’s not word yet as to whether the homeowner will be charged in this case. Things might have turned out differently if the victim had been able to retrieve the shotgun before he was beaten by the two transients. I wonder what the police response would have been in that case.
©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Gun Watch
The victim got lucky, nobody should ever take shotgun Joe’s advice seriously.
“The victim got lucky, nobody should ever take shotgun Joe seriously.”
Fixed that. You added the word advice and that was to specific.
I would have given them the bird shot rather than the ground. Looks like some charles manson knock off’s.
Appropriate name as well.
I was thinking that the one on the right kind of looks like William Murderface.
Holy crap, that is spot-on and hilarious.
LOVE MetalocalypseW
LOVE Metalocalypse!
Firing bird shot is a god way to ensure nobody is hurt even if you are aiming at them. Still, good result, could have been better, and my best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Depends on the range. I’ve put a fist-sized hole through quarter-inch plywood with 12 gauge birdshot at about five yards.
A human body is not 1/4in plywood. Birdshot is for birds and things roughly that size.
Are you saying bird shot at 5 yards is not effective in stopping a human?
So are you volunteering to take a gutful of birdshot at less than ten yards, Some Guy? I have to wonder if you’ve got any experience with shotguns if the answer is yes…
Why don’t you think about that one again. That is a bunch of BBs that can damage quite a bit of human tissue. If you get the chance, ask a surgeon which he would rather have on the table. 1 round of .45 hollow point to the abdomen or chest or 1 round of 12 gauge bird shot to the abdomen or chest. Either of them at 7 yards. I wouldn’t want the birdshot. That is way too many projectiles (yes they are smaller but the have a higher chance of hitting something that will kill you).
Eyeballs < 1/4 inch plywood. If all you have is birdshot, aim for the face.
Besides, I don't care if birdshot is not an effective man stopper. When push comes to shove, lead does down range in the direction of the target. I'd rather shoot a .25 acp at the bad guy than a .45 acp over his head.
Well, I know of a guy that was shot in the abdomen with a round of 20-gage birdshot at point-blank range and lived to tell the tale. Wasn’t even hospitalized for all that long. He did have a very large, well-padded midsection, and the round did gouge out a very nasty-looking wound, but still–Of course, the round did serve the purpose, it put him on the ground and allowed the shooter to run away.
A little personal experience, here: I shot and killed a man who had just shot another man in the back with a 12-gauge shotgun loaded with #7 1/2 shot at the range of about ten feet; The fellow who’d been hit with the ‘harmless birdshot’ had a gaping hole the size of an adult man’s fist in his lower back, no right kidney and surrounding tissue, severe blood loss, and now uses a bag and hose to urinate. He’s very lucky that we, and EMS, were there so promptly. I heard him get shot. VERY unpleasant. His assailant, who also loosed off another round of #7 1/2 at my partner, died shortly thereafter from several pistol bullets.
Birdshot is not just for birds; At close range, there is nearly NO spread on the pattern, which will expand roughly at a rate of 1″ per every three feet depending on the load and cup style. If that mass of # 7 1/2 weighs about 1 ounce, which it does, the effect is that of a solid mass weighing 1 ounce (437.5 grains) travelling about 1150fps. At ten feet, the diameter of the pattern is about 3 inches, if that. And there’s the wad. If one desires a reliable suicide with minimal mess and no real chance of over-penetration, it’s birdshot all the way.
That’ll ruin your day.
Hey,
Why you gots to bring all these facts and first hand knowledge to the discussion?
It was just getting good seeing the “experts” out tard each other concerning shotgun effects. 🙁
🙂
At twenty feet, it’ll put a 5″ hole in the back, and a 6″ hole out the front of the chest, completely removing the heart. Like you, I’ve seen it, and it ain’t pretty. The other victim was shot at close range in the lower abdomen, and died in surgery. Nurse K’s post is exactly right about removing all of the pellets
Minimal mess?
I have killed rather large animals at close range with birdshot. Long range…not so much.
Ditto. I’ve killed full grown wild goats at 15 yards with 7-1/2. Not an extra step after the shot and they were on the run.
They both have that look about them that makes me think phrenology is worth further study.
I’m thinking vivisection.
Is it vivisection if they’re brain-dead?
No!, Your thinking of our lovely lady Dianne from CA!
Low IQ, mental illness, poor impulse control and substance addiction is a potent combination.
I’m referring to my ex wife of course.
Maybe you’ll grow the IQ to choose better next time.
Bird shot ….helped on case of bad guy shot at 15 yards….he was dead on scene…
The moral of the story is that dead men tell no tales.
No need for warning shots, just order them to leave and start shooting when they approach within lethal range. Nobody wants to take an ounce of #6s from less than 20′ away.
I certainly wouldn’t want to get at 20 yards with any shotgun load, much less at 20 feet!
The moral of the story is this is a prime example of why law should not mandate how we store our guns.
I heard they want to pass a bill to make it so guns are legal as long as when not in use:
1. They are field stripped
2. Slide must be in 1 safe
3. The trigger not only must have a trigger lock but also be in a separate safe
4. The barrel must be in yet another smaller safe that has been covered in concrete
I was going to go on and on about mags and bullet storage but I think you get the idea.
BINGO ! +1000
I hope Mr. Farago is reading this….excellent reason why the earlier post on Dan Baum and his group preaching about locking up guns when off body is soooo wrong. The anti-gun groups are pressing this position. We all need to push back. As individuals, as adults, WE are the ones who should make the decision. We don’t need to buy into the group think that terrible things will happen if a gun is not locked up. First the anti’s try to change the societal thinking. Then they go for a law. It doesn’t matter if they get to a law or not. The concept is WRONG WRONG WRONG.
The supreme court already took care of this in Heller. I wouldn’t take any proposed legislation like this seriously because of the strong precedent set here.
I’d take it seriously because they’ll keep pecking away, again and again and again…They have nothing to lose so why stop? After all, they’re doing it for our own ‘good’…
Moral of the story for me is something I already knew. Always carry, never tell, even at home.
Bird shot loses speed pretty fast, I think that’s what he meant by safe to shoot in the air.
I won’t pass any judgement on the situation because we don’t know anything except for the basics.
Not safe to shoot in the air he needed to shoot them!!
It’s sad to see the Geico cavemen like this.
The Neanderthal is back among us.
Sad to see they’ve fallen so far, but they were replaced by a gecko.
GEICO gave laser guns to state troopers, so as to get more speeding tickets written and thus jack their rates.
Fuck GEICO.
Traits like intelligence, forward thinking, empathy, impulse control, and physical attractiveness are largely genetically inherited.
These are not “cavemen,” they are a type of genetic trainwreck coughed up specifically by the modern world/society with its insistence that eugenics is far more awful than dysgenics and its endless religio-social worship of degeneracy.
If two guys were taking turns hitting me in the head with a bat, I would not be waisting ammo by shooting in the air!
…wow! Those two are definitely from the shallow end of the gene-pool.
OR heard of soap?
Tough to find work since Hollywood cancelled Encino Man 2.
Damn…seems like some people are more closely related to the Neanderthals than others.
Beating an unarmed man with a baseball bat–it’s so easy, a caveman could do it!
The look in those men’s eyes is truly scary. Devoid of thought and full of malice. Proof of evil in this world.
Looks to me like they just stepped off the runway after Mugatu’s Derelicte campaign. Maybe they thought the homeowner was the prime minister of Malaysia.
Are you taking crazy pills? They both have the SAME LOOK!!
The Wildlings are over the wall – Winter is coming.
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
“I should’ve thrown you from the top ‘o your Wall, boy!!”
“Aye – ye should’ve.”
The dude on the right has that “don’t have a clue” look, Wouldn’t you just love for your teen daughter to go out with these guys?
The troglodytes called the cops on themselves? Hmmm…that’s an interesting tactic. Too bad they don’t have chain gangs to give the homeless somewhere to go…seriusly birdshot is for birds. 00, 000 or 0000 buck for boys.
That bird’s nest hair look just never goes out of style, does it.
It’s good for something, you can turn him upside down and clean your toilet.
You kiddin? It’d probably leave an even worse ring around the bowl!
Well, you got to put a little Comet in there too, then jiggle him up an down. Pretty soon you’ll wonder where the yellow went!
These creeps are lucky they have their eyes.
Birdshot into the air … Harmless more or less, unless maybe there are power lines overhead.
Birdshot in the direction of the head and neck, however…
In cowboy action shooting, the usual load in the shotgun is 1 oz. of 7 or 8 shot, generally around 1000fps. At 25 ft, is is still in the shot cup. .45acp is 230 gr. @900fps. You do the math.
The terms “human garbage” and “white trash” where coined specifically for these two.
You dishonor human garbage and white trash by lumping these two in with those esteemed groups. The Twins are just garden-variety garbage and trash.
And you are basing your racist comment on what evidence exactly?
I mean, you’ve seen genetic profiles of these two, to back up your assertion they are white?
Dude, come on. These two are white trash a holes who look like meth addicts. Why the hell are you defending them? I have a feeling J is white and calling it like he sees it. Don’t get your knickers in a twist.
I knew illegal downloading was taking a bit out of profits, but I’m surprised Metallica has fallen this far.
OK, I gotta admit I LOL’d.
Killingsworth. That may be the best villain name ever!!
As they say in Texas, “some men just need killin'”.
I was in the military stationed in coos bay and these fellers look about right.
If you go the coos county sheriffs website it used to say essentially ‘if you aren’t being raped or murdered, leave a message cause we ain’t coming’
I would have dug a hole.
to bad he did not shoot them
Assault and battery- So easy a caveman can do it…. sorry couldn’t stop myself I gotta work on that.
This pair will now be added to Bloomberg’s list of gun violence victims.
Since this took place in Coos County, a very conservative region where the libs have destroyed a once prosperous resource-based economy, the homeowner will probably be OK from a legal standpoint. Now, had this happened in the People’s Progressive Socialist Utopias of Lane or Multnomah County, he might very well have a problem.
There has got to be some co-mingling of familial DNA in their parentage. Jeez O’ Pete.
Wow. Y’know, those two look like a little lead, bismuth or rock salt would do
themOregon a lot of good.Discovery Communications will soon announce that Killingsworth and Moore are to be featured in the upcoming Animal Planet mockumentary NEANDERTHALS LIVE!: THE NEW EVIDENCE
Lesson learned: load with buckshot and keep it where you can get it before bat boys get you.
He should have used 00 buck into both of their heads. Self defense after all. I sure would have.
Didn’t these dudes used to play for Gwar?
I’mna thinking the result of single mother households, what say you?
Maybe the results of two failed abortions.
I prefer to think of them as absent father households.
Stop striving to be so PC and now feministic. People like you are degrading the values of our country one issue at a time. If you were calling someone out for using the word retard or fag or an N-bomb I wouldn’t be saying a word. But you’re just getting all bent over silly sh1t.
That’s the problem bird shot is useless and 00buck is OK. #1 shot is tactical and penetrates just as deep as 00 buck but provides many many more wound channels. It spreads throughout the torso like cancer.
Birdshot is for birds…it can kill humans as some can attest to, but I don’t want the doctor to even see the guy I have to shoot. That’s the morticians job. As far as effectiveness of causing my attacker to stop I’ll trust buckshot over birdshot any day.
“The two suspects fled to a nearby residence and called police…”
If those two dirtbags had showed up at my house to “use the phone”, they would never have gotten through my front door. I would, however, have called the police to have them arrested for felonious scumbaggery.
Unleash the Benelli on both of them and do us all a favor.