Home Handguns MAC on the Heartbreak of Glock Limpwristing HandgunsTraining & Technique MAC on the Heartbreak of Glock Limpwristing By Dan Zimmerman - February 18, 2013 49 Facebook Twitter Pinterest WhatsApp Email ◀Previous Post Next Post▶ ◀Previous Post Next Post▶ RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR What’s The Right Age To Teach Kids Gun Safety? .38 Special: What I’ve Learned After Over 20,000 Rounds Langdon Tactical Now Customizing the .32 ACP Beretta Tomcat 49 COMMENTS Today on video… “Things I’ve been telling ya for 30 years” “Why I’d never own a Glock” “Ways I’ve won everything from drinks to those over-rated guns” “No, seriously, some of those dumb kids have bet the gun that I couldn’t make it jam” “Hope you can iron-wrist, wounded in a shootout” Reply Limp Wristing is an Induced Failure and as with 90% of failures they are user caused and have nothing to do with a particular MFG of handgun. I can do the same with any semi-auto at will. Reply Glock, the number one handgun in the world. Law enforcement, the feds, civilians. Too much, too many, for too long. Resistance if futile. Its what you get for the price point that destroys the competition. Everybody comes around eventually to the cold, numbing inevitability that is Glock. Yeeeesssss Maaaaaassssttterr. Reply Before the Glock ever came out, I had tens of thousands of rounds down the pipe of semi-pistols. Browning, Beretta, Colt, AMT, CZ, Walther, and a dozen names that I just don’t feel like typing. In maybe 30K rounds, I could count the number of FTEs without taking off my socks. I ran out of fingers and toes by the second mag the first time I shot a Glock. It may be an “induced error” but Glocks are famous for it and seem more likely to have it than any other pistol I have ever owned or fired a few hundred rounds through. But like lots of other things, if it works for you it’s your choice. Reply Your a semiauto trailblazer because most people mainly shot revolvers before Glock came out (maybe you did as well). In any case, ya might have gotten hold of a lemon (it happens). Glock is on Gen 4 now and (like McDonalds…though I wouldnt compare the quantity with quality) have served billions through the decades. Its the gun of the feds (G22,23), for heavens sake. A ‘semi-auto trail blazer’ are you being facetious? My maternal g-pa went all semi-auto in the late 1940s. By the early-mid 70s everybody (which means all the ‘grown-ups’ in my world ) had several to dozens of semi-auto guns. (I’m in my late 40s, so I’ve likely been doing this stuff longer than you were a boner at a 5th grade dance.) Sure, I had a Dan Wesson .357 pistol pack , but I also had a CZ75, a Hardballer Longslide, and a Gold Cup MK IV before the advent of the 80s. As well as a PPK/L PPK and PPK/S and, and… Not to mention all the stuff that floated around in my group of friends via their parents. I’m truly sorry you lived in someplace where the drapery-gun was somehow the beginning of semi-auto. For gun guys of my age it was nothing special. We laughed at it then, and we still do. I am in my late 40’s as well (I think my father was in the 5th grade in……1935). What I was referring to (and you, as well as anybody in our age group or older should commonly know) is that law enforcement almost exclusively used revolvers until the mid-80’s or so, when reliability had reached a point, combined with Glocks double stack magazines, that revolver carry started being phased out. Before Lethal Weapon and Die Hard, most people lusted after six shooters carried by Dirty Harry and the like. I know people carried 1911’s and Rugers in the Great War, but, well, as I stated, your a semiauto trailblazer. Nothing wrong with that. I am still correct in stating that the Glock revolution helped usher in the semiauto dominance in all spheres. You can see why I usually win these discussions, huh. I like my Glock (most popular gun on Earth) which is simply a tool. I love my S&W 627Pro 8shot 4″brl. 357mag. I love you too. Now….”Get off my lawn”. No, you get off of my lawn… :insert smiley: I guess I didn’t see myself or anyone else around me as blazing a trail. We were just following the guns that were more productive than revolvers. Even as kids, we wondered why Dirty Harry carried that thing. Especially after he said it was a ‘light Special Load’. We read the magazines, studied the charts. Though most of us did have bolt-action (.303 FTW!) or lever action (thutty-thutty, or fo-fo-fo) deer guns, because they were cheap. Some even used those 8-10ga bolt action goose guns, back when we could… Perhaps we were the leading edge, but growing up in the gun-rich (everybody had a coupla dozen in that glass-faced decorative cabinet) MW boonies in the mid-70s, my experience was that every redneck I knew wanted (or had) a “high-cap” Browning 92 9mm by the late 70s. 1911s were a dime-a-dozen. Walthers were not rare either. Maybe I lived in a weird bubble. It wouldn’t be the first time. Sure, we bought GP100s, XP100s and whatnot, but the autogun was what we took seriously when it came to pistols. In my suburban world of the late 70’s early 80’s, it was bad tv (later, good….in terms of nostalgia) reruns of (you name it) cop and detective shows and seeing police carry s&w model 10’s and 357’s in real life. Within just a few years, there was an explosion in the LE world (I think Glock got in early on contracts and whatnot) because of the ‘perception’ of a reliability increase and (of course) the lighter polymer double stacking. This also coincided with the desire for a more powerful cartridge after the FBI incident and the offering of the 40 s&w. I think they called this period the Wondernine revolution or something as three or so different elemets hit at once to create a kind of synergy. Mel Gibson, Bruce Willis, and others popping rounds off while quickly swapping out mags on the big screen was so cool, it simply had to be transferred to the…you guessed it, gaming world (no, I dont take part in the shooting games on the internet). The ability to have multiple soldiers cover each other in the military meant that if a gun jammed, your buddy had your back (with a pistol….let alone the all important rifle), but lessened reliability issues along with the above reasons really made LE ditch the revolver to backup and concealed duty. You really are more experienced than the average bear, given your examples. I’m just an average schmuck with a basic interest, by comparison. For now, I seem to be more comfortable with my 8 shot reduced load s&w 627 on the nightstand vs my gen4 G22 with tritium sights, probably because of my relative lack of experience. A good question would be: would an 8 shot 1911 really be better than my hog leg (assuming I was equally proficient with both)? That seems to be an interesting thing to ponder (with each having its pluses and minuses). Another great vid by MAC. Of course, the Glock fanboys will be flaming as usual on the YouTube channel… as if mentioning any shortcoming is tantamount to heresy… Reply That was very informative. Not a deal breaker by any means, a Glock is a mechanical device made by man and by that logic alone is not perfect. Moral of the story learn you gear and practice with it. Reply Excellent video and a great explanation of limp wristing. Reply https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYqwWWANNr0 He must have a magic glock *eye roll* Or, I’m betting that Nibex G19 has been diddled with, either the springs, trigger ect. Reply Vid you linked to shows a 40. MAC clearly said that he has a hard time reproducing this kind of a failure in both 40 and 45. Reply No “diddling” was done to the G19 other than a nickle boron slide treatment by AmChar (WMD guns). The G19 in question now runs fine. All it took was removing a little finish from certain areas. Also, go back to my older videos and you will see the exact same failures with unmodified Glocks including a G17 and a G17C. I pointed out that caliber makes a difference. The biggest offenders are 9mm Glocks. I specifically state that .45’s and .40’s are less likely to have the issue. Reply Glock should register as a religious organization. They have enough acolytes to beat out the Buddhists. Reply I dunno…Saint Coopers Church of the Ninteen and Eleven has a strong following too…;) Reply The difference is that Glock is a cult or sect without a formal savior (no one actually likes Gaston) while The Church of JMB (may he rest in peace, amen) is a full-blown religion. Reply So does that mean we get first amendment protection then? If the Glock is at fault do the smart thing dump it and get a good Beretta 92FS!!!!!!!!!! Reply but I want my gun to WORK, not be an expensive Italian paper weight Reply LOL i love my Beretta!!! for the money, they are hard to beat. I never understood the contempt soldiers and marines had for the M9. Those that had malfunctions and parts breakages didnt service the damn thing right or take care of it (like most fobbits do). Reply I have had two trigger return springs break on M9s while deployed. (btw I was not a fobbit on 4 of my 5 deployments). I wouldn’t carry an M9 if I had a choice. Reply Nicely done. With all the concern about limp wristing, MAC still carries a Glock 19. That tells me he has awareness of the potential problem, but is still comfortable with that platform due to extensive training and experience. All platforms have shortcomings. Personally, my carry guns are a Glock 27, Glock 23 (on order), and Smith 340PD .357. I have not seen any carry pieces which are 100 % perfect. As with cars, nothing has optimum performance in all categories. With the 19, the light weight of the frame combined with poor handling (or perhaps a significant injury) could lead to a limp wristing malfunction. I imagine lighter – recoiling calibers in light guns such as compact .380s could have the same issue. Reply You are right about small .380s being prone to limp wristing. My P3AT has a FTE about every 50 to 100 rounds when being used by a new shooter I take to the range. I have not had one myself yet 😉 Once explaining limp wristing to them, the jams stop every time. Reply I hate to take defense for Glock owners but MAC was not shooting a factory spec version of the Glock; he was shooting a “NiB-X Glock” that he was having trouble with. Anyway if you browse around youtube enough you will find enough videos of people trying to purposely limp wrist their Glocks and failing. Now with all that being said, the only firearm I have ever had issues with limp-wristing were all 1911s. Reply He said he can reliably reproduce the failures only with ANY of his Glock 9mm guns but not so much with his 40 and 45 Glocks. Reply If you look at some of my older videos going back 4 years, you will see I have been doing these tests for a long time and with a wide variety of handguns. In my older videos you will see the same failures with a standard G17 and a G17C — no nickle boron. Just because others try and fail doesn’t mean it can’t happen. I would bet my next paycheck I could take your G17 or G19 and cause failures with it simply by the way I hold it. I’ve fired countless Glocks over the years and own many myself, I’ve yet to meet one in 9mm I couldn’t cause malfunctions with. Those I’ve seen trying to induce malfunctions are doing so incorrectly and/or they’re using calibers other than 9mm. They think muzzle rise is all that matters. It’s both muzzle rise and rearward movement. If you don’t attempt to allow free movement rearward you won’t induce a malfunction. Shooting the gun with 2 or 3 fingers isn’t what causes it by itself. Reply Excrement occurs which is why malfunction drills are so important. Reply In Magnum Magazine, the South African gun rag, I read an article where this guy had two different auto loaders jam in two different gun fights. Neither ever had a problem at the range or in practice. He pointed out the real thing is different and really impossible to practice for. You can get yourself in all sorts of awkward positions that no range would ever allow nor could you anticipate. His answer for a country where using a gun in a self defense is way more of a possibility than in the US? He switched back to a revolver. In the US it doesn’t really matter since the odds of ever having to use a gun are nil. Reply You wouldn’t happen to know what issue that article was in, would you? Reply I have a touch of arthritis in my right hand, my gun hand. I hit the gym regular and I have hand grip building gear at home for when I’m watching tv. I’ve never had a problem with metal framed handguns such as my Makarov. But I have to pay attention to my Sigma. The polymer frame will allow me to limp wrist and cause those exact problems Mac was showing. But only if I relax and get careless with my grip. Somehow, I don’t believe I’ll get that relaxed in a life or death situation. The last time I was in a shit storm my sphincter puckered so tight you couldn’t have drove a knitting needle in there with a sledge hammer. And I prefer my Sigma to most other 9’s. The grip angle is just right for me. It and my Mak are the only 2 bottom feeders I have. Reply Most recoil-operated semi-autos can be limp-wristed unless the frame has so hefty a mass that the gun needs no more mass or force from the operator to allow the slide to fully cycle. I’ve seen aluminum aluminum framed 1911’s short stroke too. As I’ve said several times before: I carry a Glock because a) they’re pretty reliable, and b) they’re commodity guns. If, God forbid, I’m involved in a DGU and the po-po take my heater for evidence, I’m not about to get all choked up about handing over a Glock. I’ll just go down to the LGS, plunk down six pieces of paper with that randy ol’ womanizer’s picture on the front and get another one, same day, same features, same accuracy. A Glock gives me the same emotional appeal and attachment as owning a Chevy Vega. Glocks aren’t Nice Guns[tm], they never have been Nice Guns[tm] and they never will be Nice Guns[tm]. Why Glock fanbois invest so much adoration in a gun that’s the equivalent of a Cheby Vega, I have no idea… but then in my misspent youth, I remember friends who owned Vegas giving them flaming chicken paint jobs. Go figure. Reply theyre like the fanboys of Mitsubishi Lancers. Not a nice car by any stretch of the imagination, although they can get the job done when needed (street racing 😀 ) To me, Glocks are a good go to gun because I wont feel bad abusing them, throwing them in the dirt, or scratching them. Yes, in a DGU, i wont miss my 19. Reply LOL… Mitsubishi Lancers? Honda/Acura fanboys are worst! 😉 Reply Yes. The beauty of a Glock is that you LIKE it, not love it (the handgun equivalent of a hammer….maybe your fathers hammer). Love is saved for pretty revolvers, anyway. Reply I am by no means a Glock fanatic. I do have a Glock 30 that I carry all summer (in Texas summer is defined as about Feb 15 to NOV 15. I wanted a compact in .45 cal (all other rounds being a sub caliber training device). I planned on a Kahr, I wanted a Kimber, but unfortunately I have yet to win the lottery. I got to Cabellas and held the Glock 30 and I liked it. I went and rented one at the range and loved it. I shoot about 50 rounds a month to make sure all of my mags are working. I’ve put about a thousand rounds through it, and have yet to have a failure. Maybe I have strong wrists, maybe I’m lucky, maybe the problem is over stated on Internet forums. Today I fired 50 rounds, double taps, from 30 feet and put 49 in the x or 10 rings, one in the 8 ring. I’m not sure that I’d trade my G30 for a Kimber at this point. Reply A decent video as far as it went but there are a lot more factors that cause “limp wrist” malfunctions than a plastic frame. I considered advising some hairy knuckled Seal he was limp wristing one of the top ten most dangerous things I had to do during my time as an instructor . (insert smiley face or whatever) I won’t carry a weapon that can easily malfunction because of “limp wristing”. There is as good a chance I might have to shoot from an awkward position which could be a fatal time for a malfunction. Reply That’s always been my major point of contention. A surprise DGU/firefight/”situation” in real life is always inherently very confused, muddled, and you grab whatever cover you can. God forbid the bad guy got one off first, and you’re already wounded. The last thing I want to defend myself with is a gun that I know with absolute certainty will malfunction if I don’t do everything “right”. If I only have one functional arm, how do I clear that FTE in a hurry? If I need to shoot around a corner at some odd angle, what good does one round between stoppages do me? Reply I never intended to imply that the material used in the frame construction was the only factor in what makes a pistol susceptible to limp wrist malfunctions. There are many other factors including spring weight, extractor, feed system angles, etc. However, frame mass is a key factor that, on it’s own, can either make a pistol highly susceptible to limp wrist malfunctions or not. As evidence of this, I can induce limp wrist malfunctions with relative ease on a G19. If I put a flashlight on the frame rail it suddenly becomes much harder to induce a limp wrist malfunction. All I’ve done is increase the mass of the frame and poof – problem mostly corrected (they can still happen but it takes much more effort). Reply I agree with that. The closer the frame weight is to whatever is needed to resist the recoil spring and slide movement the less is required from the shooter. Reply I have no reason to not believe you. I also still have no reason to carry a gun I know I can make jam at will. Put a flashlight on it, put a lead weight on it, it’s prone to FTE compared to other offerings. Reply I can easily produce a limpwrist malfunction with my Ruger LCP.380. Nevertheless I would not give up this gun. If you want to avoid limpwrist malfunction buy a REVOLVER! Reply If you try hard enough you can short stroke the trigger on a revolver and advance the cylinder without firing a round. Now what? a knife I guess. Reply Absolutely. Enough “user error” can make any platform useless. Some folks have issues with cocked and locked .45s, grip safeties, or don’t carry a round in the chamber. Some carry with safeties / decockers on and practice removing them. Magazines can fail. Holsters can snag. There are a damn few ways to make platforms fail, including missing your target, but it only takes one. Reply If worried, I second the revolver. Added bonus of not having to think about a dud round, as you merely pull the trigger again for a new round. Reply Take that mitsubishi in the mud and see if it will keep up with my silverado. I must be the only one that owns a malfunction free glock……Glocks and Silverados rule….lmao Reply LIMP WRIST vs. NEW EJECTOR – GLOCK 27 Gotta say after 6.5 years with my Glock 27, I have no complaints except for the snap and am still dealing with that. Hickok45 videos do help a little bit, he’s a G27 lover from way back. SO when it began failure to feed, objections to feed, call all that what you will, I began to feel OLD & weak when reading about limp wristing. I work out, walk/carry golf, daily exercise, shoot Glock & a revolver weekly … so ?!?!?!? So one by one started to replace springs, et al. no matter what the real deals/pros suggest as a routine schedule, until I got to the ejector, its spring already replaced within a month. The old one was a bit shiny but naked eye couldn’t see any wear/tear. Presto/chango first time @ range, I tried everything “bad” to encourage a failure, even a hiccup … all like new again. Am posting this for lack of a real presence on all these forums for helpful ejector solutions … I think I found only one when over 33 dismissed the poor guy as a sissy limp wrister or even more draconian, dismissing Glock with no particulars. Why post ignorance? Just my ignorant opinion…. Reply If holding your defense gun funny causes it to malfunction then throw it away. Imagine getting stabbed in the full mount position trying to shoot from draw. “Oopsie my gun limp wristed, can’t blame the manufacturer!” Reply LEAVE A REPLY Cancel reply Please enter your comment! Please enter your name here You have entered an incorrect email address! Please enter your email address here Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email.