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4:38 PM CT: HR 2578 is now coming up for a vote.
4:41 PM CT: The first amendment would appropriate additional funds for improved NICS background checks for firearms sales. It would also prohibit anyone on the federal terrorist watchlist from purchasing a firearm. The roll is being called now. Votes require at least 60 votes to pass.
4:49 PM CT: The vote is currently 30 YEA to 17 NEA
4:50 PM CT: Here’s the important text:
(1) the Attorney General and Federal, State, and local law
enforcement are immediately notified, as appropriate, of any
request to transfer a firearm or explosive to a person who
is, or within the previous 5 years was, investigated as a
known or suspected terrorist;
(2) the Attorney General may delay the transfer of the
firearm or explosive for a period not to exceed 3 business
days and file an emergency petition in a court of competent
jurisdiction to prevent the transfer of the firearm or
explosive, and such emergency petition and subsequent hearing
shall receive the highest possible priority on the docket of
the court of competent jurisdiction and be subject to the
Classified Information Procedures Act (18 U.S.C. App.);
(3) the transferee receives actual notice of the hearing
and is provided with an opportunity to participate with
counsel and the emergency petition shall be granted if the
court finds that there is probable cause to believe that the
transferee has committed, conspired to commit, attempted to
commit, or will commit an act of terrorism, and if the
petition is denied, the Government shall be responsible for
all reasonable costs and attorneys’ fees;
(4) the Attorney General may arrest and detain the
transferee for whom an emergency petition has been filed
where probable cause exists to believe that the individual
has committed, conspired to commit, or attempted to commit an
act of terrorism; and
(5) the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation
annually reviews and certifies the identities of known or
suspected terrorists under this section and the
appropriateness of such designation.
In short, people on the terrorist watchlist will have their NICS check returned as “DENIED” and the attorney general has three days to get a judge to sign off prohibiting that person from purchasing firearms. It’s a way for people on the terrorist watchlist to be denied guns but does not include measures that some would consider appropriate due process.
4:56 PM CT: The vote is now mathematically impossible to pass. The amendment FAILS.
5:03 PM CT: The Senate is now voting on Sen. Murphy’s amendment, which would allow the Attorney General to prohibit people on the “terrorist watchlist” from purchasing a firearm. There is no requirement for the AG to get a judge to sign off on the NICS denial. The bill requires that the list be cleared through the secret FISA court, which simply requires that the court believes there is enough information that the individual “might” be a terrorist before being listed. Here’s the important part:
“(d) Authority to Prohibit Firearm Transfers and to Deny
or Revoke Licenses and Permits.–In accordance with
subsection (e), the Attorney General may prohibit a person
who is listed on the Terrorism Firearm Screening List in
accordance with subsections (b) and (c), or for whom there is
probable cause to believe the person is or has been engaged
in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or in
support of terrorism, or providing material support or
resources for terrorism, and there is reason to believe the
person may use a firearm in connection with terrorism, from–
“(1) participating in the transfer of a firearm under
section 922;
“(2) receiving or maintaining a firearms license under
section 923; and
“(3) receiving or maintaining a license or permit for
explosive materials under section 843.
In short, the government simply needs to think that you might be a terrorist to add you to the list — no conviction required. There is an appeal process listed to be removed from the list and have the firearm transfer approved following a denial.
5:11 PM CT: This amendment also implements “universal background checks” and requires that every firearm sale (no matter where it takes place) be accompanied by a NICS check. Here’s that section:
“(t)(1) It shall be unlawful for any person who is not a
licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer
to transfer a firearm to any other person who is not so
licensed, unless a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
or licensed dealer has first taken possession of the firearm
for the purpose of complying with subsection (s). Upon taking
possession of the firearm, the licensee shall comply with all
requirements of this chapter as if the licensee were
transferring the firearm from the inventory of the licensee
to the unlicensed transferee.
5:13 PM CT: The current vote is 40 AYE and 51 NAY.
5:15 PM CT: The motion now is mathematically impossible to pass. It has FAILED.
5:21 PM CT: The Senate is now voting on amendment #3, which is Senator Cornyn’s proposal. This would also allow the Attorney General to prohibit those on the “terrorist watchlist” from purchasing a firearm for 3 days and requires a judge to approve the prohibition before it is made permanent. If that approval is not provided then the person may continue to purchase firearms. Here’s the important part:
At the appropriate place, insert the following:
Sec. ___. Hereafter, the Attorney General may deny the
transfer of a firearm if the Attorney General determines,
based on the totality of the circumstances, that the
transferee represents a threat to public safety based on a
reasonable suspicion that the transferee is engaged, or has
been engaged, in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in
aid of, or related to terrorism, or providing material
support or resources therefor. For purposes of sections
922(t)(1), (2), (5), and (6) and 925A of title 18, United
States Code, and section 103(g) of Public Law 103-159 (18
U.S.C. 922 note), a denial by the Attorney General pursuant
to this provision shall be treated as equivalent to a
determination that receipt of a firearm would violate section
(g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, or
State law. A denial described in this section shall be
subject to the remedial procedures set forth in section
103(g) of Public Law 103-159 (18 U.S.C. 922 note) and the
intended transferee may pursue a remedy for an erroneous
denial of a firearm under section 925A of title 18, United
States Code. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, such
remedial procedures and judicial review shall be subject to
procedures that may be developed by the Attorney General to
prevent the unauthorized disclosure of information that
reasonably could be expected to result in damage to national
security or ongoing law enforcement operations, including but
not limited to procedures for submission of information to
the court ex parte as appropriate, consistent with due
process. The Attorney General shall establish, within the
amounts appropriated, procedures to ensure that, if an
individual who is, or within the previous 5 years has been,
under investigation for conduct related to a Federal crime of
terrorism, as defined in section 2332b(g)(5) of title 18,
United States Code, attempts to purchase a firearm, the
Attorney General or a designee of the Attorney General shall
be promptly notified of the attempted purchase.
5:34 PM CT: AYE: 50 NAY: 45. The vote is now mathematically impossible to pass and has FAILED.
5:38 PM CT: The final amendment, #4720, is coming up for vote. This is Dianne Feinstein’s (D-CA) amendment.
5:40 PM CT: This amendment would, like the previous ones, allow the Attorney general to deny the NICS check of anyone suspected of being a terrorist for 3 days while they obtain a court order to permanently block the transfer. Here’s the text:
Sec. 5__. Hereafter, the Attorney General shall establish
a process by which–
(1) the Attorney General and Federal, State, and local law
enforcement are immediately notified, as appropriate, of any
request to transfer a firearm or explosive to a person who
is, or within the previous 5 years was, investigated as a
known or suspected terrorist;
(2) the Attorney General may delay the transfer of the
firearm or explosive for a period not to exceed 3 business
days and file an emergency petition in a court of competent
jurisdiction to prevent the transfer of the firearm or
explosive, and such emergency petition and subsequent hearing
shall receive the highest possible priority on the docket of
the court of competent jurisdiction and be subject to the
Classified Information Procedures Act (18 U.S.C. App.);
(3) the transferee receives actual notice of the hearing
and is provided with an opportunity to participate with
counsel and the emergency petition shall be granted if the
court finds that there is probable cause to believe that the
transferee has committed, conspired to commit, attempted to
commit, or will commit an act of terrorism, and if the
petition is denied, the Government shall be responsible for
all reasonable costs and attorneys’ fees;
(4) the Attorney General may arrest and detain the
transferee for whom an emergency petition has been filed
where probable cause exists to believe that the individual
has committed, conspired to commit, or attempted to commit an
act of terrorism; and
(5) the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation
annually reviews and certifies the identities of known or
suspected terrorists under this section and the
appropriateness of such designation.
5:42 PM CT: 41 AYE to 47 NAY. The vote is now mathematically impossible to pass. The amendment FAILS.
More coming . . .
There is no body there…
For such a hot topic the floor is empty…..kind of surprised by that.
This is bullshit if these pass with only a fraction of Senators present.
Wackadoo terrorist commits heinous crime after FBI drops the ball, citizens have to endure a vote on their freedoms within 10 days. Shocker.
Blatant treason, and the public just shrugs.
That is why I am not a sheepdog but a RAM (Right to Arm Myself). If the sheeple are not smart enough to arm themselves for their own protection, i certainly would not be helping them if I was near by. If I was in the middle of it, I would shoot back and protect myself and my loved ones, not the general sheeple.
You’re exactly right, and why I also reject the sheepdog moniker. It’s important for gun folk to remember that behind every treasonous, fascist elected official are millions of fascist American “citizens” trying to take away your rights. “Fellow Americans” no longer deserve to have good, armed people protect them.
1 down 3 ridiculous violations to go.
I have to wonder who the real terrorists are when my own government frightens me and is trying to do more harm to me than radical Islamic nutjobs.
Motion failed!
kind of surprised some of the strong antis voting no
Good. Let it fail. No more gun control should ever pass. The next firearm bill that passes should be for firearms freedom.
Well, I’m glad the first motion failed, but there’s still so many opportunities for betrayal. I wonder if everyone on that floor walks around with thirty pieces of silver in their pockets?
Tom
Try 30 Million Tom
If a WW2 soldier went to sleep in 1944, awoke today, and looked at our “leaders,” he’d likely assume the Nazis won the war.
Nein! Ve are nut zpeaking ze German!
So… Looks like the gun grabbers got their teeth kicked in… again.
Good.
Anticipate a speech from the President expressing stunned disbelief and shaming of the RNC and NRA that their desperate need to DO SOMETHING was stymied by a basic application of common sense.
Wait a minute– I thought Cornyn’s deal was the 72-hour delay, and Murphy’s the flat-out, no relief denial. Looks like they both failed, but let’s keep credit–or fault–where it’s due… Edit– WHOOPS, looks like someone caught it already– thanks!
I’d like the names of each vote, please.
The fact that Dems voted against amendment 3 proves that their goal really is unchecked, unregulated, and unconstitutional power over people’s rights. Should be obvious to anyone with half a brain, which unfortunately excludes those on the left.
Well the vote on the Cornyn amendment shows that for most of the Democrats that these votes are nothing more than wanting to advance the cause of gun control, that it has nothing to do with terrorists because this one actually had some due process attached to it.
Now we just need to defeat the final amendment.
I am going to watch with glee as Feinstein’s totalitarian amendment gets shot down. But not too much glee, because the totalitarians never give up.
Saving the best for last I see. If the other 3 failed this one shouldn’t have a snowballs chance in hell.
I wonder if Obummer will next appear on TV, wiping away tears, as he soundly castigates Congress for not doing something about gun violence. Again. Still.
The Dims got what they asked for a vote. Now what did they really expect huh??
Now sit down, quit blubbering like a bunch of unruly children that you are. Shut the hell up and do some real work both sides……..Don’t expect anything different in Congress. They too are just as useless as tits on a bull too. Please don’t try to reinvent insanity it wont change a single result.
44 or so yea on the last bill. It’s all dead.
Maybe Obama will have another public tantrum.
What’s the difference between Cornyn’s 4749 and Feinsteins’s 4720? The amendments look the same on the surface?
more due process in Cornyn’s, and it was NRA approved.
That and Feinstein’s amendment simply tied everything to the so-called “no-fly” list, which no one knows anything about. It’s utterly abhorrent to think of abrogating your God-given rights in favor of a secret list without any due process whatsoever.
Tom
Ok, I see the difference now.
“court of competent jurisdiction and be subject to the Classified Information Procedures Act (18 U.S.C. App.)”
You still get your “due process”, but it’s conducted in secret.
Well, how about that. Maybe they do listen once in a while after all. I’d like to think that since the mad dogs have been set down for the time being, more intelligent people can start working to resolve the REAL issues at hand – namely, our woeful intelligence efforts vis-a-vis the Middle East, and preferably a 12 to 24 month moratorium on ALL immigration (not just Muslims) while we catch up on vetting the ones we already have and in the meantime, properly sorting and overhauling our immigration policies.
But of course, the ninnies won’t do that, because it doesn’t serve their purposes.
Tom
PS: I need to look up my Senators’ votes, too.
Sure, McConnell and Ryan will get right on that.
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