Liberal Gun Buyers Discover Their Hatred of Firearms Was A Matter of Projection

Liberals With Guns

While it’s nice to see some businesses flourishing in these scary times, [gun store owner Gregg] Bouslog says that safety has been a huge issue at the range, as many first-time buyers seem to have gotten all of their notions about guns and gun safety from television.

We tried to look at just who the new firearm purchasers were and we believe that more than 60% of these individuals were first time buyers. I can’t describe the amount of fear in my staff as we had the buyers show proof of safe handling as part of the purchase process as required by law. You have never seen so many barrels pointed at sales staff and other customers. It was truly frightening. We had to keep stopping the process to give quick safety lessons. We are adding many more basic classes in the coming weeks and encouraged these buyers to please attend. We hope they do.

This isn’t hard to believe. As a gun-owner who formerly abhorred the Second Amendment, I can personally testify to the fact that most people who believe they are anti-gun are actually just anti-stupid. They just don’t realize they’re projecting their own stupidity onto law-abiding gun owners.

– Kira Davis in Virus-Panicked Liberal Gun Buyers Are Getting Angry When They Discover Their Own Gun Control Laws

comments

  1. avatar Carlwinslo says:

    I get muzzle sweeped by cops more than anyone else at the range or LGS.

    1. avatar Scott says:

      That’s because cops are the least informed about guns, and the absolute worst shots. Very rare it is when one finds a cop that knows more than a fifth grader about guns.

      1. avatar Daniel says:

        And just how many cops do you truly know? 3 maybe 4? Do tell what level of training you have that makes you an expert. You need remember that the cops you people love trash on here are the same ones that will in most cases be the ones running toward the fight and not away from it. Are there bad apples in the profession? Of course there are, but the good far outways the bad and the media looooves people like you (aka usefull idiots) that they can use to push their anti cop narrative. I’m just a Joe blow citizen that works a typical 9 to 5 that does know how to protect myself but I thank God for those men and women willing to risk their own lives for me and my family and hope they never have to waste their lives on someone like you Mr. Keyboard warrior.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “And just how many cops do you truly know? 3 maybe 4?”

          I once had cops in my family, relatives of my future former wife. Not that any of that matters. What does matter is that I was at the local range, next to five cops who were sharing a shooting lane. I would not want to be a bystander at any shooting that involved those five guys. Suffice it to say that their target paper could have been properly reused.

        2. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

          I’ve got cops and military in my family, and cops in my wife’s family. They certainly do not know a lot about guns. There is nothing wrong with this. they don’t have to be gun guys. The problem is people thinking that since they carry for work they must know a lot about guns.

          One of my wife’s relatives, a state trooper, has been asking me for loads of gun advice recently. He has never owned one and never carried one outside of work, but just before the kung flu panic he was ready to get one and start carrying. I have tried to help as much as I can.

          On my side the cops know more and typically are also hunters. But really it’s me and my brother (the soldier) who are the gun guys. And while he is an outside the wire guy he is not in a combat MOS. But he is a gun nut on the side like I am, and he advises other soldiers frequently.

          I am medically not qualified for police or the military. But I am the guy the cops and military people that I know come to for gun stuff.

        3. avatar Joe nobody says:

          I worked at a gun shop for years and had dozens of cops flag me.

          I was also involved in an altercation, called the police who arrived before I had to draw my gun, and allowed myself to be disarmed out of respect for the responding officers… The one who took my gun promptly racked the slide without removing the magazine, ejecting a live round and chambering another; he then pointed the loaded gun at my chest and asked me how to clear it…

          I respect law enforcement for the most part, and you are correct they are brave; but brave and competent are not synonymous.

          More thorough firearm training should certainly be part of the police academy.

        4. avatar Dave says:

          Some police aren’t gun guys or girls. It’s just part of the job and they don’t do anything more than the required training. Same is true in the Army, Marines, et cetera. Plenty of people in my family wore the uniform, so this is not idle speculation, or criticism. It just is.

        5. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

          Daniel, just like Scott you made a bunch of unsupported assertions. Where did you get you evidence of cops being such heroic types? I myself have never seen anything but anecdotal evidence of that. Same with them being monsters. The running (assuming they are fit enough to run) towards any one could be evidence of them wanting another ear on their necklace as much as it could be evidence that they are being heroic.

        6. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Some of the worst firearms handling/shooting I’ve ever seen were on 1. LE ranges by LEO. 2. Military ranges by soldiers. 3. Public ranges by citizens. Some of the best firearms handling/shooting I’ve ever seen were at those same three places by those same people.

        7. avatar Ralph says:

          I practice at a range that often hosts police qualifying for LEOs from all over the area and can attest that most of them can’t shoot for sh!t. I also had the pleasure of watching LEOs from Cape Cod qualify at the old West Barnstable Town Range and they couldn’t shoot either.

          I’ve practiced during Secret Service qualifications and, after watching them, I have a very high opinion of their marksmanship. By and large, those dudes can really shoot.

          BTW, I wasn’t supposed to know that they were Secret Service.

        8. avatar Hillbilly says:

          @ Gadsen Flag: This brings back a really old memory. While doing yearly rifle qualification a guy about 3 shooters down from me had a malfunction. So he flips the gun around and starts peering down the barrel. This is all while continuing to pull the trigger. Guy next to him sees what is going on and takes his rifle away. That guy is still in the Military to my knowledge.

        9. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Hillbilly, I once saw a range NCO. Shoot himself in the hand with an M-60. That took some imagination. As to Ralph, i’ve been to New England. Never mind the cops. Almost no one up there can shoot. They can barely own a firearm.

        10. avatar tdiinva says:

          Ralph:

          The Feds and military are better because a failure to qualify will deadend your career. That is a big incentive to practice and they qualify quarterly.

        11. avatar Brent says:

          Having spent 15 years in LE at a small Sheriff’s Office, I can tell you that yes you are partially right. We got no real firearm training. We were required to pass a shooting test with any weapon we carry. The test was done three times and the average score was your final score on any new weapon. On re-qualification all you had to do was do shoot a passing score. This was done once a year.

          Most of the department only new how to handle the weapons they carried. Most only had one or two. Some of the others like myself would bring at least a dozen or more pistols, plus a few shotguns, and AR-15’s to the range to qualified. We were there all day.

          When I first got hired the target was scored on a 300 point scale. 225 out of 300 was passing. When I left LE, the target was now scored on a 120 point scale with 110 out of 120 passing. I never claimed to be an expert or a perfect shot but I always passed in the marksman or expert range.

          I never took real stock in this since if in real life if I had to pull my gun, I knew the target does not shoot back. Fortunately for me, I never had the bad luck of being in a shoot out even though I was shot at once.

          The suspect fired on me while I was still in my vehicle and by the time I exited my vehicle and gained coverage the suspect had run off into the woods.

        12. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          tdiinva, I’ve shot with the Feds and the military. They’re no better or worse than anyone else. After decades of shooting with and observing shooters of every type most are mediocre to average. Some are abysmal. A few are truly talented. An example. I was at a thing at Ft. Benning in the early ’90s. A LE distributor had secured use of a range. I was invited. Let me think. An opportunity to shoot other people’s weapons with free ammo. Let me check my calendar. Best Ranger competition was going on at the same time. They were using the range to our right to qualify with the M-9. I wandered over to watch. I’m talking to an O-3 when I see a competitor shooting. Each time he pulled the trigger he let the pistol rise to vertical (really) over his head. I burst out laughing. I asked the captain, “What the hell is he doing? I own a Beretta and don’t more than about 2″ of muzzle rise.” The captain replied, “I don’t know.” I thought, “Neither does he.” Remember, Best Ranger Competition and this guy was in it.

        13. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          Ralph – When I lived in Georgia in the early 2000’s my next door neighbor was a Secret Service agent (he was on Jimmy Carters advance team). He would invite me over when he and his fellow agents were shooting in the backyard. I certainly agree with you about their abilities. They could ALL shoot extremely well. He let me shoot an MP5 and a Steyr AUG quite a few times.

          As an aside – He hated the former president. That was when JC was still able to do shit like going to Ghana to help oversee the election there. Chris said it was dangerous as hell all the time there. He was going to do the same thing in Gaza for their first election but the Service told him their agents were not going to go so he was on his own if he went.

        14. avatar kyle says:

          Cops are people, like anyone else. Some good, some bad.

          Some sweep, some dont.

          I dont trust them anymore than I trust anyone else.

        15. avatar todd says:

          I shot USPSA with an EMT who said his cop friends used to give him their training ammo (back when there was such a thing) because the cops didn’t want to shoot.

        16. avatar 24GunSalute says:

          37

        17. avatar Xaun Loc says:

          Sorry that you were upset my another user’s comments, Officer Daniel, but there was more validity in his comments than you care to admit.

          I live in a large city with one of the few authorized department-run police academies in the state. I readily admit that I am not and have never been a police officer. My own training includes a career in the military, including having been NCOIC of a Military Police detachment, having been a weapons training specialist for the army (GS-1712-11), having been a state certified concealed weapons instructor, and having attended my city’s civilian police academy program.

          Without any doubt I will say that most patrol officers are inadequately trained in safe weapons handling — and are actually trained in UNSAFE weapons handling in that they are consistently trained that it is completely acceptable to point a gun at a person they have neither intent nor justification to shoot. More to the point, officers are led to believe that they are trained in firearms handling simply because they managed to get through a live fire exercise with a passing score without having been thrown off the range by the instructors.

          Since you think that all officers are well trained, I suggest you spend a few minutes talking with your own department’s firearms instructors (if you have any). Ask them if they would consider running the range without wearing a level IIIA vest. Ash them how many negligent discharges occurred on the range, while officers are under direct supervision. Ask them how many of the officers they trained, they would be willing to have behind them in a live fire situation.

        18. avatar Drake_BurrWood says:

          Remember Who decides how much time and money is spent on training LEO.
          – – Polititians.

          IF.. The Law Enforcement hierarchy is Lucky.. They get to divide that up.

        19. avatar James J Peterson says:

          AMEN!

        20. avatar Alex says:

          Dude he’s not ripping on cops at all. I think most people on this site would agree with you. But the man is pretty much right statistics show that police are on average worse shots than armed civilians when looking at rounds fired compared to rounds on target in a gun fight. Both with or without return fire.

        21. avatar Brent says:

          Gunfights are not the same as target shooting. Target shooting builds some skills but in an actual shooting situation, An officer must rely on his skills learned at the range all while his adrenaline is running on overload.

          Having completed several shoot don’t shoot classes I can tell you even though I know the bullets were not real but they sure do sting like crazy. As I went through these courses, I knew I would potentially have to shoot or be shot at. So scenarios were handled just by talking the subject down. My heart was beating extremely fast.

          Years ago there was a statistic that stated almost all police shoot outs lasted less than 5 seconds with an average of 15 rounds shot by both the suspect and the officer. Hit ratio was around 38 percent. Average distance was 7 to 10 feet.

          Bottomline is you shoot different when you are not in a position of compromise.

        22. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Bottomline is you shoot different when you are not in a position of compromise.”

          That is precisely the theme. If you shoot crappy in a non-threat environment (range), how likely are you to shoot better when threatened? No one is saying that if police shot hundreds of rounds into the ten ring at the range, that is no indication of the same performance under threat. But if shooting at the range appears to be a case of ten ring avoidance, improved performance under threat cannot be seriously expected.

          What is the old saw….”In combat, you don’t rise to the occasion, you fall to your level of training” ?

      2. avatar Hillbilly says:

        It varies, I have shot with some police that are excellent and some that see it simply as a training requirement. Some of the training I received was from Police was excellent and they were very professional. Most people who become Police Officers don’t do it because of guns, just saying.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          I can only attest to LASD, as I live in Los Angeles County and have a number of friends in the Department. For all their faults in other areas, they do know their guns because they’re trained well. For us, we don’t have to deal with Barney Fifes…if anything, we deal with the other end of the spectrum (wannabe Robocops).

          But they at least know how to handle their sidearms.

        2. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

          For Philly it was mostly a shitshow with a few who are on point a bit over a decade ago. For Albany/Troy/Schenectady much better but the sheriff department tends to have better safety and handling practices.

      3. avatar Cea says:

        I shoot several PPC matches a year. The top shooters are almost always law enforcement personnel. Very consistently, the top 5-6 places are held by LEOs from local or government departments. They always shoot 599 or 600 out of 600 with 45-55 x count.
        The cops that I know, can shoot! Better than most anyone else.

      4. avatar Granny Grunch says:

        Someone raised in a home without gun suddenly is a po lice man carrying one. He may never reach a “symbiotic” relationship with it.

      5. avatar Cop326 says:

        Why don’t you just exchange the word “Cop” in your post for the word nigger, or Spic, Kike, WOP, Queer? That’s the way you are generalizing about a community of people who are all different, have different skills attributes and qualifications. Hate much do you???

        1. avatar Ralph says:

          “Why don’t you just exchange the word “Cop” in your post for the word nigger, or Spic, Kike, WOP, Queer?”

          Because they shoot better than cops, that’s why.

        2. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Well, Ralph. Your true face is revealed from behind the Greek masks. Though, the Communist rifle was a clue. You’re discredited.

    2. avatar Brandan says:

      I review months ago I saw a cop in the lane next to me completely forget how to clear a type 1 malfunction on his Glock 17. His mind went to complete jello. He just put his jammed pistol back into his holster in frustration.

      This did not inspire confidence in me.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Isn’t a type 1 a simple FTF? Tap, roll, rack. If there’s a jam, that’s akin to a type 3. If it was a squib, that requires removing the magazine, locking the slide open, and retiring the gun until it can be properly serviced by the Department’s armorer.

        1. avatar Brandan says:

          It is. After about 30 seconds he retrieved it from his holster, upon clearing the malfunction in his head…he cleared the malfunction in his pistol.

          Not a pretty sight.

      2. avatar Jhoward says:

        An indoor range I go to occasionally has 14 lanes, when there I ask for lane 1 or 14, sometimes the staff get it.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          I typically prefer to be on the leftmost spot on my range’s (long, open) benches, to avoid spent brass flicking over into my field of view from anyone to my left.

      3. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

        But, but, but ….Brandan. Glocks don’t malfunction. Just ask the plastic crowd. Caveat. I have owned many Glocks and expect to own many more. Been through their LEO armorer school several times. Any pistol will embarrass you. Learn to act accordingly. No matter your profession.

    3. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Some years back I was stopped, and advised the cops that I was armed (as required in TX). Lead cop decides that for “officer safety” he had to reach into my damn pocket to pull out my LCP. Having been stopped for the unforgivable crime of an inspection sticker one WEEK out of date, you might imagine I was not happy. But then he began attempting to unload my weapon, while holding it between us, while at contact distance. Then he became offended by my screaming, possibly with some reason, and my liberal use of the word “idiot” as he muzzled me WITH MY OWN DAMN GUN, over and over and over, while his partner told me not to worry, he was an expert with firearms, again increasing my volume and incurring the use of the word “idiot” several more times. Never assume that any LE has the slightest clue about firearms, including how to shoot them, but they sure think they are somehow experts without a lick of training.

      1. avatar Hillbilly says:

        The proper response to that is; My gun is far safer in my holster than you attempting to remove and clear it. I also don’t ever tell anyone I am carrying unless of course it is open. Had that happened to me at a minimum his supervisor or chief would of gotten a personal visit from me to discuss his officers lack of proper training.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Yeah, I suspect he *was* the chief, there were 2 cops in the car and the town had a population under 600, I can’t imagine there were too many more cops there.

        2. avatar Hillbilly says:

          Surprising lived in Texas a very long time. The smaller town Police usually were the most “corrupt” so to speak. They usually didn’t mess with anyone unless you were on their radar. One of my X’s had a history of drinking and driving. If I was ever driving her car late at night through town and was spotted would get pulled over. They knew I was carrying and never once asked, let alone tried to disarm me.

          On another note one of my friends had a similar experience driving his own vehicle for over a year. He had a high school friend who worked the next town over look into it. As it turns out the Police not only had a file on him they also had him labeled a drug dealer. After it got cleared up he didn’t get pulled over again for years. He too carried and they never asked or tried to disarm him.

      2. avatar In for a penny, In for a pound says:

        Larry- You should have demanded a supervisor come on scene to disarm you. You just meet the inferior charactered government employee, who the Founders ensured We Citizens could use lethal force on to protect our Liberty. A cop depriving you of your natural rights under color of law like you experienced, is exactly who a rifle is meant to be used upon, at a time of your choosing. Too bad, previous generations of cowards traded our Liberty for the false security of a corrupt government.

        The Second Amendment is like a tie in base ball where the Citizen’s gets the benefit of the doubt to make it home safely to their family, over the just following orders thug.

  2. avatar Dennis says:

    I wonder how many of them now understand the reality of of normal people shooting real guns instead of Joe Hollywood pulling guns out of every pocket and blasting everyone in sight with 100 shot Glocks, etc. Then having the same idiot preaching that “you” shouldnt be allowed to have one. Get it now???

  3. avatar doesky2 says:

    Article starts with a picture captioned describing one of those ultra-concealable .9mm handguns.

    Information brought to us by the same journalist math wizards that figure Bloomberg could have given everybody a million dollars and that the world will end in 14 years.

    1. avatar Brainman says:

      I came here to say that.

      An article about people that don’t know guns, leading with the infamous .9mm. Oooh the irony.

    2. avatar Rick the Bear says:

      “Article starts with a picture captioned describing one of those ultra-concealable .9mm handguns.”

      I missed that the first time. Now I can’t unsee it.

    3. avatar Jim Bob says:

      Well, a .9mm is still twice as big as the .45mm I’ve seen described in news stories.

  4. avatar DesertDude says:

    Unfortunately, liberals will be the death of us all.

  5. avatar WI Patriot says:

    If the virus doesn’t get them, NG’s will…

    1. avatar Rick the Bear says:

      “NGs”??

      Naso-gastric?
      National Guard?

      I’m guessing that you meant NDs. ;~)

      1. avatar WI Patriot says:

        My bad, yes, “Negligent Discharges”…

    2. avatar Hillbilly says:

      N.ightvision G.oggles, they are extremely effective against liberals especially at night.

  6. avatar Sam I Am says:

    The people who are frustrated by the gun control laws will not likely (in any great number) accept that it is “their” anti-gun beliefs, and “their” anti-gun politicians who are the problem. If that were the case, the article would not note the number of complaints and bad attitudes on the part of frustrated anti-gunners.

    However….

    This is a great time for FFLs everywhere to post signs prominently displaying:

    “California (or wherever) law requires:
    – Two independent forms of personal identification
    – Filling out four (4) multi-page forms
    – Criminal background check for firearm purchase
    – Separate criminal background check for ammunition purchase
    – Ten (10) day waiting period between passing background checks and possession of the firearm
    – No more than one firearm may be purchased in a thirty (30) calendar day period.”

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      I haven’t purchased any ammo here in CA since our absurd BGC law went into effect last July (there were those trips to NV, tho…cough, cough). Are you certain that a separate BGC is required for an ammo purchase, if you *just* passed one a moment earlier during the same visit for a gun? If so, links please? I’m not finding anything.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “Are you certain that a separate BGC is required for an ammo purchase, if you *just* passed one a moment earlier during the same visit for a gun?”

        Not at all. Just threw that into my “example”, just in case. The example is not a fit for every place with gun control laws, but submitted for whatever value* it would have.

        *Including entertainment value

  7. avatar LifeSavor says:

    Not sure how to characterize the recent wave of new gun owners:

    — People who never gave much thought about guns until the panic-demic caused such thought.

    — People who were afraid of guns until a greater fear came along.

    — People who were actively anti-gun until this panic-demic caused them to realize they are their own first line of self-defense.

    — People who had been considering a first time gun purchase and decided now is the time.

    The reasons may be varied, but here they are: a lot of new owners needing safety and defensive-use training. Good!!

    1. avatar Porridgeweasel says:

      I would guess that these two are the more percentile wise the reason for the new owner surge.

      — People who were afraid of guns until a greater fear came along.

      — People who were actively anti-gun until this panic-demic caused them to realize they are their own first line of self-defense.

      1. avatar rt66paul says:

        How about people that are living paycheck to paycheck with an expensive home and 2 or 3 car payments? They do not want a HiPoint(they are to good for that), and they have other interests. Born a 4th generation city boy, never had a gun bug. I have known plenty.

        Some vote dem others rep, many don’t vote at all.

  8. avatar Scott says:

    I’m truly hoping that: Guns are just inanimate, but occasionally useful, tools., is one of the lessons many new gun owners learn after this crisis passes.

  9. avatar Ranger Rick says:

    Ms. Davis’ article while insightful gives me pause to wonder how short lived the the frustration of these new Leftist gun owners will be when the China Flu has passed?
    More pressing issues such as “Global Warming”, “Open Borders”, “Gender Equality”, “Living Wages” and “Reproductive Rights” will once again be their litmus test for politicians with the ensuing harm to 2nd Amendment freedom.

    1. avatar edward kenway's ghost says:

      I wonder the same thing myself.
      When a crisis hits people obviously reconsider priorities, but do their values truly change? Rational people buy guns to DEFEND themselves and their property as a last resort. Watching people who never considered owning a firearm or going out and emptying animal shelters for pets makes me wonder about their true mindset.
      If things go back to some semblance of order and economic stability will there be a surplus of firearms coming back into the market? How many animals will be dumped when bored people go back to work, if ever?

    2. avatar strych9 says:

      I think open borders is dead. Looks like the EU’s casket is closing.

      This disease is going to reorder the world in some ways that are foreseeable and a lot of ways that are not.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        I believe you’re right, and it looks like the climate silliness is going with it. And if they can’t figure how to ditch Biden, possibly the Demorat party.

      2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Agreed. In his daily press conference yesterday, Trump mentioned that the “Wall” continues to be built, with “more than 168 miles already completed”. Not a single comment or follow-up question from the journalists in the room. Crickets.

        I think that Pelosi and Schumer have allowed their minions to stop pestering the issue.

    3. avatar Dave says:

      That’s about the size of it. I’m sure a few will wake up. They’ll be outnumbered by the pro control members of this crowd, who in the future I expect will be leading off anti gun diatribes with the old ” I’m a gun owner, but..”

  10. avatar Grumpster says:

    If noting else these new firearm owners will no longer believe the lies that democrat politicians constantly spew about a firearm being easier to buy than a box of breakfast cereal.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “If noting else these new firearm owners will no longer believe the lies that democrat politicians constantly spew about a firearm being easier to buy than a box of breakfast cereal.”

      More likely, anti-gun gun buyers will more likely blame it all on the one store they visited. These people have a core belief that anything they want should not be denied them, or require much effort to obtain. Any one who makes things difficult is violating their freedoms.

  11. avatar A Deplorable says:

    Apparently, Nancy Pelosi is adding the text of HR5717 to the proposed 4th Tier Stimulus Bill being written in the House at the present. Just read about this elsewhere. Needs more verification, but “heads up”….

    1. avatar Doug says:

      I saw that on a pro-2A Youtube channel, but like you I can’t find any other verification. The guy said the National Association for Gun Rights had broken the story, but I don’t see anything about it on their website.

      1. avatar A Deplorable says:

        Thanks, me either…still looking. I saw it on MeWe on The Conservatives Hangout Group from Bob O’Conner but he did not provide any URL to refernce on MeWe….

    2. avatar A Deplorable says:

      I am still not finding any corroboration for the claim “Johnny B.” is making in this YouTube video. There’s certainly NOTHING about it on the National Association for Gun Rights website. Johnny B. has provided no support form any other source on his YouTube page, so I have to declare his claim BEBUNKED.

      Nonetheless, keep your eyes and ears open because this does seem plausible from crazy sot Nancy Pelosi.

  12. avatar kap says:

    This is a great opportunity for these new owners for finding out the truth about Democratic potlickers and blood sucking tics that infest the hall of congress, and prolonged virus help for political gain.

  13. avatar John Memoli says:

    You’re being generous. I believe that many are projecting their own personal weaknesses and evils (not just stupidity). They know that they can’t be trusted with a firearm, and since they can’t admit that they are, in any way abnormal or abhorrent, they conclude that nobody should have a gun.

    1. avatar doesky2 says:

      ^^^^ That right there ^^^^^

  14. avatar strych9 says:

    I don’t find this surprising. Lots of nubz do silly things when introduced to new and dangerous objects.

    If you wanna feel your ass pucker, watch the FNG fire up an acetylene torch for the first time, especially on a pipe cutting set up where the placement of your lines needs to be thought out in advance.

    1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      gas pipe.

      1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

        Thinking I would rather run the grenade range in basic.

  15. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    I don’t know about the other services. But the Marine Corps and the US Army are infantry organizations. And everyone in those services learns to shoot an M16 or in today’s world an M4.

    When I was in the Army we spent weeks training with rifles on basic safety and handling before we even went to the rifle range.
    And if you had a drill sergeant or a drill instructor they were all very Stern. And sometimes mean and nasty when they had to be. It kept them alive and it kept us alive.

    We developed a safety mindset before we even set foot on a live-fire range.

    I know with paying civilian customers it’s different. But I have watched on two different ranges civilian safety personnel strongly caution first time shooters. Who did stupid sh*t.
    I know this is a broad statement but I believe it to be true. Liberal gun owners have voted for not only gun control but also voted for destructive social policies that create crime and then concentrate it in certain neighborhoods.

    But just as liberals supported gun control and destructive social policies. Conservatives have given up or are just lazy like in Virginia and not voted.

    The only long term solution is to put 2A education and rifle teams back into the public school systems. And allow the 4-H and the Appleseed Project access to the public schools for Education and Training.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “The only long term solution is to put 2A education and rifle teams back into the public school systems. And allow the 4-H and the Appleseed Project access to the public schools for Education and Training.”

      Does anyone else find it curious that every “solution” to ending infringements of the Second Amendment requires the cooperation of the very people who created the infringements?

      And that victories for POTG are fragile, dependent on election cycles?

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        “Does anyone else find it curious that every “solution” to…”

        In a word: “No”.

        This is how a Republic functions. Politics has inertia to it. Always has, always will. So, if you fuck up for a while you have a shitload of work to do just to get back to where you started.

        There’s an interface of theory and reality. The reality is that we’ve relied too heavily on theory for too long and “But muh rights!” doesn’t do fuck all in reality unless it’s combined with work, work POTG haven’t been putting in. Like weightlifting, we’re skipping the gym and wondering why we’re not getting mad gainz.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “In a word: “No”. ”

          I find it curious because if the words of the constitution do not prevent infringement, hoping for cooperation of anti-gunners is not a “solution”, but a fantasy. We can’t implement a “solution” until, as you state, we get over the notion that not going to the gym can result in “getting mad gainz.” Goint to the gym means energizing gun owners, not hoping anti-gunners will change their spots.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          Are you familiar with the Kantian concept of “Control Theory” and the opposing view of “Moral Luck”?

          Most people have no fucking clue what those are yet they subscribe to both depending on the situation. Even gun owners fall into this trap because it’s easy to do and they’re ignorant. However, it creates logical inconsistencies that people know are there but can’t quite put their finger on. The result is that things “don’t feel right” and are therefore rejected.

          That makes things easy for the antis when they push “Moral Luck” as a unstated thesis.

          Change that level of ignorance and you’ll start to start to see those gainz simply due to the logical consistancy because people will rapidly recognize that you cannot build a legal system that incorporates Moral Luck, and even the Left doesn’t really want to. They just want to use it if it’s convenient. I mean, you can’t punch a Nazi if it’s not their fault that they are a Nazi.

        3. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “I mean, you can’t punch a Nazi if it’s not their fault that they are a Nazi.”

          It doesn’t seem a direct relationship, but it is the basis of liberal racism. A condition where we hold “the West” (and any other enemy of the left) to a higher standard of morality because those of lower standard (pick your group) can’t help that they are members of a group with lower standards. Thus those with lower standards cannot be criticized, or looked upon as a group needing to be enlightened.

        4. avatar strych9 says:

          Restatement for clarification and technical correctness:

          That makes things easy for the antis when they push “Moral Luck” as a unstated thesis and then switch to Control Theory when it suits their purpose(s).

          The Left does this consistantly and, quite frankly, deftly and I have never, ever seen them get called out on it. However, it’s EXACTLY what they’re doing with trying to close gun stores while releasing criminals.

        5. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “…it’s EXACTLY what they’re doing with trying to close gun stores while releasing criminals.”

          Leftists/progressives/whatever, are consummate utilitarians; whatever works. In your example, both actions are a social good: people cannot be trusted with firearms; prisions are filled with only political prisoners. An added benefit to emptying the jails is the compassion of rescuing an oppressed population from the dangers of disease spread in cramped living conditions.

          For the Left, contradiction in theory is a social good because contradiction allows for uneven treatment as a means of establishing a “fair” society.

        6. avatar strych9 says:

          “Thus those with lower standards cannot be criticized, or looked upon as a group needing to be enlightened.”

          Essentially this has been called “the soft bigotry of low expectations”.

          However, that misses the point and the Left laughs at the whooshing sound of this going over our heads. The people who create Leftist talking points know fucking right well what they’re doing. They know that advertising+instruction=manipulation and they’ve been doing that for a long time.

          Every serious intellectual Leftist I’ve encountered knows the Kant/Nagel argument front to back. They use the fact that others don’t know it.

          This is why I refuse to cede them any linguistic ground.

        7. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “This is why I refuse to cede them any linguistic ground.”

          I can never forget that the Latin word for “left” is “sinister”.

        8. avatar strych9 says:

          The interesting history of bias against left-handed people not withstanding, this philosophical issue is something we need to address.

          We cannot allow the Left to pick which set of rules applies to which situation solely for the purposes of advancing their position. We’ve allowed it for too long.

          The truth is that most people actually naturally agree with Kant and while there is some nuance to the reality and theory of luck we cannot allow Moral Luck to “be a thing” because it undermines the entire law code and, indeed, the roots of Western thought on right, wrong, responsibility etc.

          While a discussion of Moral Luck may be appropriate in certain circumstances it’s selective application for political advantage is corrosive. We, unfortunately, do the same thing. The result is a set of rules that boil down to “What I like should be legal and what I don’t like should be illegal, with the severity of punishments assigned by the strength of my dislike for the action in question.”

          That violates Fuller’s rules 2,4,5,6 and often 7 as well as opening us up to violations of 3. IOW, the entire schema of legal thought and morality comes crashing down. Which is exactly what the Left want.

        9. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “While a discussion of Moral Luck may be appropriate in certain circumstances it’s selective application for political advantage is corrosive. We, unfortunately, do the same thing. The result is a set of rules that boil down to “What I like should be legal and what I don’t like should be illegal, with the severity of punishments assigned by the strength of my dislike for the action in question.” ”

          Agree. “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

          The arrogance of self demands and permits us to “pick and choose” the truth we believe, over facts.

        10. avatar strych9 says:

          I would also point out something from one of your previous posts, in line with my refusal to cede linguistic ground.

          Lefties are not “consummate utilitarians”. If they were they’d be pro-gun. The base tenet of all strains of utilitarianism is the maximization of net happiness in society. So long as DGU’s outweigh criminal and suicidal actions by even 1 instance a utilitarian side with the 2A.

          The fact that they don’t means that they are not philosophical utilitarians. They’re either ignorant of what that word means or they’re lying. Utilitarians are not concerned with your happiness, my happiness, their own happiness. They’re concerned with overall happiness in society, and utilitarianism holds that the proper action may cause immediate unhappiness or individual unhappiness but that this is irrelevant as long as the action, overall, maximizes a society’s happiness. So while crimes with guns or suicides may cause personal unhappiness the fact that there are more DGU’s outweighs that.

        11. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “The base tenet of all strains of utilitarianism is the maximization of net happiness in society.”

          Net happiness is an opinion based on popular demand. Thus, since the Left finds autocratic control over the population to be the maximization of net happiness, they are, indeed, utilitarian. One of their advantages is that even if the majority of the population defines “net happiness” different from the Leftists, the public is wrong.

          And…by “utilitarian” I mean divorced of niceties and politeness; ends justify the means utilitarian. If truth leads to autocratic control, truth is useful (of utility). If lies lead to autocratic control, lies are useful (of utility). Which also leads to the phenomenon that even if the truth would suffice, a lie is preferred.

        12. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Oiy vey, that was a lot of scrolling down on the mouse to get to the bottom of that.

        13. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Oiy vey, that was a lot of scrolling down on the mouse to get to the bottom of that.”

          True. Sometimes a point of discussion doesn’t lend itself to superficial cruising.

        14. avatar strych9 says:

          Under your definition of utilitarian I would agree to some extent. That being that they are fairly utilitarian in their pursuit of authoritarian power.

          I would however point out that your definition is, generally, immaterial. These folks change their preferred definition to get what they want, like a cheating gambler swapping between regular and loaded dice.

          They do that for a specific purpose, whichbis to lead people into a set of conflicting beliefs that can be exploited. In the most general sense that set of beliefs is a fluidity in transition between Moral Luck and Control Theory. People do not realize that they’re doing it but they are. They’re willingly exchanging the concept of free will for the concept of inevitability and predestination.

          That exchange creates problems including cognitive dissonance within the people who engage in the behavior. The fact that they don’t recognize that they’re doing it makes it many fold worse. Like a depression spiral fueled by drinking, their observance of the problem leads them to engage is more of the behavior that creates the problem in the first place.

          And the feeling this produces is what the Left exploits to gain compliance with their control mechanisms. The lack of justice must be remedied, but the “cure” is worse than the disease, so people beg for more “medicine”. Like I’ve said many times before: The best prisons you can build are in people’s heads.

          As to the “popular demand” issue, the remedy is obvious and was known by the people who founded this country; freedom. No need for a “vote on happiness” when people are free to pursue their own version of it.

          Haz:

          Increase your scroll speed so each movement of the wheel moves you further.

        15. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “No need for a “vote on happiness” when people are free to pursue their own version of it.”

          Underneath it all is the never-ending argument between Hamilton and Jefferson – people are/are not capable of managing their own affairs. The arc of history favors the view that people are generally incompetent in even the least of human activities, needing a directive government to see to the greater good.

          While I favor Jefferson’s view, the last 50 years are calling my assumption into question. The velocity of decline from the founding vision has been breathtaking since 1960. Just yesterday, the wise ones of the WhuFlu task force admitted to considering internal passports to identify who is who among the population, regarding the infection. The idea of creating some sort of health certificate used by government to determine who can be at liberty to pursue their idea of freedom and happiness. The person describing the deliberations about such a certificate were not immediately removed from their positions on the task force.

        16. avatar strych9 says:

          The downhill nature of things since 1960 is hardly surprising. ~1950 is when the Russians intentionally undermined our educational system and we’ve done sweet-fuck-all to fix that in the last 70 years.

          Indoctrinated people believe indoctrination. Hardly surprising and certainly not an argument for failing to undo that indoctrination.

        17. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          You guys are digging your tunnel to China at this point. We’re way down here now, and still going.

          Oiy vey…

        18. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “You guys are digging your tunnel to China at this point. We’re way down here now, and still going.”

          I think it is what happens when you determine to be an iconoclast.

        19. avatar strych9 says:

          “You guys are digging your tunnel to China at this point.”

          Shit that actually matters is usually involved. Bumper-sticker sloganeering is a waste of time.

          Beating back the grabbers won’t be done with virtue-signalling circle jerks which is mostly what we do.

        20. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Alright, guys, I was only trying to have some low-key fun with you, as I thought we were on good terms. No need to be rude and snark back like that. I’ll leave you to yourselves, then.

        21. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Alright, guys, I was only trying to have some low-key fun with you, ..

          Which I understood, thus the look into my drinking habits.

          Take care, stay safe.

        22. avatar CarlosT says:

          This whole discussion would have benefitted from a definition of both Control Theory and Moral Luck.

      2. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        Where conservatives are the strongest they’re going to have to work, to take back the school systems from the Liberals. That is the mechanism that we have to educate our population. Those with the resources to homeschool, I say more power to them. But that’s not the vast majority of the American citizenry. And to think otherwise it’s just a Utopian fantasy.

        Only dedicated parents are going to homeschool their kids. We already know that the liberal establishment doesn’t like that. And puts roadblocks out there to make it more difficult for these parents.

        What’s really funny is that after bashing Christian parents for decades for wanting to homeschool their kids. Now atheist parents have now discovered the importance of home schooling.

        But the atheists are just like the Liberals. They supported gun control. They supported rule changes that screwed up public education. Now all of a sudden they want their guns and they want homeschooling. Yeah that’s right I said it.

        It’s going to take a very long time to fix what was broken on purpose. The rural areas of California probably have the best chance of fixing their school system. There private Christian schools in California that have rifle teams.
        It was Tom ammiano an atheist and proud gay men, who first destroyed 2A education and the rifle teams, in the San Francisco public schools in the 1970s. He also wrote the law that makes everyone now in California wait 10 days to get a gun.

        And liberals, gun owners or not, keep voting for people like him.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          You raise an entire series of very good points. Part of the way to defray the cost is to get involved with PTA and School Board meetings rather heavily. It provides a lower return than homeschooling but it also has a much lower cost, one that almost every parent can afford.

          I would also note that the “Conservative” notion of abandoning higher education is a fool’s errand. If what I like to call “freedom minded” people simply stop sending their kids to colleges and universities then the schools will only lurch further Left when all countervailing opinions are removed. It will be Lefties arguing with Lefties and that’s only going to go in one direction.

          The notion that enough people are going to abandon the higher education system is, as you point out, a Utopian fantasy. Too much of the world is set up in a way that won’t allow for that, and quite frankly, it shouldn’t. Sure, killing off the university system might get rid of degrees in Women’s Studies and Interpretive Dance but it will also kill off Engineering, Chemistry, Physics, Math etc. That’s cutting off our nose to spite our face.

          The answer isn’t to wreck the educational system. That’s probably impossible and certainly self-defeating. The answer is to take the system back.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “… then the schools will only lurch further Left when all countervailing opinions are removed.”

          Countervailing opinions of students are meaningless, and dangerous to the student. Colleges and Universities do not gain prestige based on the quality of scholarly inquiry. They mostly gain prestige based on the size of the endowment funded by “lefty” alumni, the number of “papers” published, and the brand recognition of the faculty.

          Hillsdale College touts its reputation for being “conservative”, and receiving no government funding. Why have we not heard of other such schools? Why is Hillsdale virtually an unknown among parents trying to place their students? The vast majority of colleges and universities receive (if not live on) government funds. Government calls the shots. Government is leftist at its core.

          Does the higher education system need to be torn down? Unquestionably. How to do it, and replace it as swiftly as it is dismantled is the pressing question. The whole idea that everyone should attend university is bogus, drives everything to the lowest common denominator.

          Colleges and universities do not open the mind, they have become expensive trade schools. They simply amount to extended high school. The family next door to me has a daughter, 24yrs old, and a doctoral candidate. People 24yrs old have not lived enough life to actually produce the scholarship implicated by the title “Doctor”. Yet, the daughter next door is not an exception, or an oddity.

        3. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          To strych 9
          I think you’re correct abandoning higher education is not such a good idea at all. However changes need to be forced onto the system. But I’m not sure how that can be done. Short of defunding public universities. Or defunding certain classes at the schools. Women’s studies, race Theory, some type of gay oriented classes, and even how to be a circus clown. Yeah that’s right at the college level there are clown courses.

          It opens up a can of worms that I’m not sure anyone is really willing to fight it.

          There was a time in this country that you could take basic fencing, archery, Rifle, and Pistol education at nearly all colleges in the country.

        4. avatar strych9 says:

          Sam:

          Your description describes basically only the Ivy and coastal West Coast universities. The “elite”. They’re essentially out of reach for most people now these days and are therefore a moot issue. Shit, my dad stopped giving money to the Harvard Alumni groups back in like 1992. The best students my wife went to undergrad with all, to a person, said “Fuck Harvard Medical”. Even those that got an offer for a full ride.

          That system is crumbling under it’s own weight. If it wants to survive it will adapt. That’s inevitable at this point. For example: Harvard Law is, currently, falling into “laughing stock” place in the Law School Admissions game.

          Tearing down the school system as you describe is a waste of time and resources. First, as I said, you can’t do that because the basic system is too entrenched. It’s been around 500 or 600 years, it’s not going anywhere. Second, you don’t want to. I don’t want to walk through my enemy’s mine field. I want to convince them to come to me across their own mine field. The way to do that is to change the demand pressures on education, which is already happening faster than most people realize. I see it daily at the University of Colorado, Boulder. Well, I did before everything went remote.

          Chris:

          As I just said above, it’s already starting to happen in places you might not expect. It’s not the immediate transition I’d personally like (yesterday morning would have been good) but it is happening. It’s happening because of the fact that parents are sick of paying for an education that’s garbage.

          So, for example, Boulder is currently in the process of revamping it’s math education program. The reason is because they have to contend with the fact that most students coming out of K-12 have a shitty math education and for most useful degrees this has to be remedied. It’s a slower process than I’d like but it is underway because the vast majority of parents simply won’t cover expenses for students to learn LGBTQ Studies stuff (an actual major). The parents want their kids going into the Engineering and other science related fields and they’re voting with their dollars in that regard.

          So the real question is what we can do to accelerate that process. Well, an example would be what my wife and I do. We run classes online. We work for a website where people pay us a small fee to cover the stuff their high school won’t or can’t. My American Political Thought I class covers from the Magna Carta up through about 1995 American political concepts. Essentially it’s a college class in Western Philosophy and American political thinking at the 300 college level stripped down to an eight week online course for $10/student. It’s an inoculation against political indoctrination later on because the kids will have actually read Locke, Jefferson, Mills, de Tocqueville, Wilson (Woodrow), Bryce, Lippmann, the Federalist Papers as well as quintessentially American documents such as the Mayflower Compact, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Articles of Confederation, Federalist Papers etc.

          Those kids will be more than prepared to resist the kind of shit I ran into my freshman year in college and, if they’ve got the stones, call bullshit on it the way I did.

        5. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “The parents want their kids going into the Engineering and other science related fields and they’re voting with their dollars in that regard. ”

          One wonders why The School of Mines is not considered an elite of engineering schools. Shame.

          The “elite” universities in any Dimwitocrat-run state cannot change, cannot be changed, until Leftism is utterly defeated. Meanwhile, the roots of Leftism burrow deeper and deeper. How bad is it?

          In 1967, I was enrolled in a class on comparative governments, commanded by a known hard-ass liberal. I got cross ways by refuting the idea that the gold standard was what gave every currency legitimacy, and that to create a fair society, the tyranny of gold had to be ended. The prof took off his glasses and asked if I intended to get a passing grade. I answered, “Yes”, whereupon the prof replied, “Not if you keep arguing with me”. This was a little known, state funded college. Have seen nothing to indicate a renovation of spirit in academia since, especially at the feeder schools (we had to de-program out high school children, just about every week.) “The system” is not going to collapse under its own weight in time to save the republic.

        6. avatar strych9 says:

          “One wonders why The School of Mines is not considered an elite of engineering schools.”

          It is for Mining and Mineral Engineering. #1 worldwide in fact.

          As for your anecdote, I had the same general experience only the lady actually gave me an F in the class for contradicting her with facts. She specifically told me it was to prevent me from ever going to grad school (failed on that one, eh lady?).

          She was a bitch and an idiot but not reflective of the overall value of a university system.

        7. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “She was a bitch and an idiot but not reflective of the overall value of a university system.”

          Two of my sons attended the same university as I. They reported that I would be chased out of the classroom, and off the campus for disputing a prof….twenty years later.

          I told the boys to just endure, get the entry level document, and go on to make a life for themselves; what the profs didn’t know would not hurt my sons.

        8. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Dang, guys (strych9 / Sam). You’ve certainly earned your keyboard stars for today, lol. That’s a lot of wordsmithing on TTAG today.

          Take a break and have a drink on me.

        9. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Take a break and have a drink on me.”

          Thanx for the offer, but I never get more than contact distance from the poured spirits.

        10. avatar strych9 says:

          “Take a break and have a drink on me.”

          I don’t drink.

          Sam:

          Sean Hannity has talked about this and I simply find the idea wanting. The reason profs have done what they’ve done is because there’s no pressure not to. The root reasons for that are in the Schools of Education because they’re what’s been screwing up K-12 since ~1965.

          The whole thing is a vicious and self-reinforcing cycle. Kids don’t learn enough math to take STEM classes but there’s pressure to go to college. Trade school is an option for some but realistically we don’t need 20 million new plumbers and electricians so trade schools can’t take the overflow. So, kids show up unable to math which creates demand for which the university must create supply. Loans won’t cover more than four years in most cases so the university invents degree programs that require only a semester of math.

          The result is bullshit degrees because legit degrees in non-math subjects (English, Philosophy, Egyptology etc) are full up. So Afro-Caribbean Literature (an actual minor at my Alma Mater that became a major) it is. Kids get a degree in it and there’s only one thing they can do with it; get a PhD in that subject and teach it.

        11. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “So Afro-Caribbean Literature (an actual minor at my Alma Mater that became a major) it is. Kids get a degree in it and there’s only one thing they can do with it; get a PhD in that subject and teach it.”

          Exactly.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      You have to be kidding! In the USAF, we went to the range for one (1) day, the first half learning how the gun worked (S&W Combat Masterpiece) and after lunch firing for qualification and cleaning. It wasn’t as nice as my Python, but I managed expert Marksman anyway. When I was later assigned duty in Vietnam, it was back to the range for M16 training, again one day with the same plan, book larnin’ in the morning, spewing lead in the afternoon, then cleaning. You spent WEEKS?

      1. avatar Christopher Taylor says:

        I was in the army during the Cold War. No hot War. We were issued M16s’ and marched around with them for almost three weeks before we even put a dummy or a blank round in one of them. Before the hot range we did Rifle PT. Constantly. We also did bayonet training with our rifles before going to the range. And that was BEFORE any instruction in Marksmanship training.

        My basic training lasted 9 weeks. It went from 6 weeks to 9 because they wanted to add bayonet training as well as some other items to the training list for new recruits.

        My understanding now is that bayonet training has been eliminated.
        But I know bayonets were used during the Iraq War. To guard POWs. So they still are needed.

        Btw
        I liked bayonet training. It was fun. I have learned the “spirit of the bayonet”. And what is the spirit of the bayonet???
        To Kill.

      2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        Yes, weeks.

        Malone 16 was where qualification for Basic Rifle Marksmanship took place at Ft. Benning.

    3. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

      I feel for those drill instructors at the grenade range. Must be terrifying

      1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        Grenade training was no joke. If I remember correctly I believe we spent 3 weeks, probably an hour a day throwing dummy hand grenades. Before we got to the live grenade range.

        1. avatar frank speak says:

          remember that scene in “Saving Private Ryan” where Tom Hanks pulls the pin on a grenade then flips it to some else to throw?…the one flaw in what was otherwise a great movie…

  16. avatar Debbie W. says:

    It takes much more than filling out a form and plopping down a credit card on a counter. Amongst many things it takes being responsible for your actions. Let one of these new gun owners do something stupid and they will switch gears and blame the gun and the NRA and go on tour with mini mike bloomberg.
    Almost as bad are gasbags who say “I’ve Been Huntin’ All My Life” while a range master explains range protocol.
    Then there are gun forum trolls who talk the talk and claim to be “conservative” while calling the POTUS lying excrement, etc. So for these individuals…

    TRUMP/PENCE 2020.

  17. avatar Prndll says:

    We devote so much time, money, and resources to feeding Hollywood and the result is a world where everyone knows and believes things that are not so.

  18. avatar former water walker says:

    Uh huh…in the state a scant mile from me(Indiana) there are NO requirements for lifetime CC or open carry. Just don’t be a criminal. And pay a fee. Where’s all the negligent discharges & accidents? Body bags & bloodbath’s?!? Unlike ILL and Chiraq😩😖😏

    1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      they’re having one thousand deaths from firearm use per year lately. and climbing.
      https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/302/total_number_of_gun_deaths

      1. avatar Prndll says:

        Gun deaths?

        How many are gang related? Or were disarmed people that could have otherwise prevented how many other deaths?

      2. avatar Porridgeweasel says:

        You linked to the gunpolicy.org??

        I hope you washed your hands afterwards….

        1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          sorry. it popped up early. illinois had 1500, indiana over a thou. safe to say the majority is trubbled utes and suicides. but the free state still has less than the enslaved. demographics not withstanding.

    2. avatar ChiRaq Veteran says:

      While Illinois has 30,000+ backlog of CCL applications. Women have been applying more than men. That should indicate the glass ceiling of ignorance has been broken for them and enlightenment has a occurred. Anything from a .380 to whatever you can shoot accurately… helps level the field against a bigger, animalistic aggressor. Always love the reports of women being attacked shoots attacker. We had one on the south side a few months ago. We’ll see if Burger Boy infringes more on our rights…possibly by understaffing.

      1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

        i’ve seen gals smile as a .380 or .38 reveals a more manageable bang than they expected.

  19. avatar Jim says:

    These new gun buyers remind me of the masses that mocked and ridiculed Noah – until it started raining. Then they all wanted to get on the Ark. Too late. God had already sealed the Ark seven days prior.

    There’s a message in there.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      There’s a message for all who don’t heed the warnings and prepare. For the antediluvian world, it was 120 years of hearing the TEOTWAWKI message, which was absurd…until it suddenly wasn’t. And by then it was too late. By the way, for anyone who has studied O.T., note that Methuselah himself was literally the walking Doomsday Clock incarnate, as he was told his lifespan would be the harbinger of the end of the world, and the Flood came on the very year of his death.

  20. avatar RGP says:

    In six months they’ll think they didn’t need a gun, so just wait and see what they’ll do. My guess is most of them will go straight back to the way they used to think.

    Remember Sean Penn and Alyssa Milano… they own guns too. The fact that they should be allowed to have something in no way implies that YOU have any rights whatsoever.

    1. avatar Eric Clawson says:

      I agree. There will be articles or blogs from the first-time gun owner when this is all over. They will write how they felt compelled to purchase a gun (even though previously they could never fathom owning one in their lifetime) due to uncertainty, fear, herd mentality and a sense of impending doom. When the current situation passes, the new gun owners with profess the anxiety of having a firearm in their home was more taxing on their mental health than the fear of not being protected by the police/government. They will state how the darkness and insomnia kept building until they finally sold the firearm or turned it into the police; were they able to feel normal again. These previous anti-gun people will never realize a firearm is merely a tool and their angst through the time of ownership was due to their ideology and a lifetime of indoctrination hating guns.

  21. avatar Shire-man says:

    I’m hoping for a bunch of first-time liberal buyer stories when they rant and rave on Reddit about being unjustly forced to go through these hoops and hurdles because they are (insert protected class here).

    Their asinine reaction of claiming every slight, barrier, hangnail and cloud in the sky is a manifestation of bigotry against them could actually be of use when the various levels of gun control in the way of them exercising their rights gets called out.

  22. avatar Juice says:

    “.9mm handgun” shown in the picture at the top of the linked article. Haven’t seen one of those in a while. Great detail on such a small pistol.

  23. avatar Markd says:

    “They just don’t realize they’re projecting their own stupidity onto law-abiding gun owners.” this is a BIG DUH!
    “First-time buyers seem to have gotten all of their notions about guns and gun safety from television.” Second BIG DUH! (Television also includes their Politicians) DUH! DUH! DUH!

    To the Gun Stores who DON’T have a nice bright TARGET for their customers to aim at “WHY THE HELL NOT”! YOU could even encourage then when you hand them the fire arms to aim at that target! OH MY! Just a BIG
    DUH there talk about not thinking! Everyone will pick up and aim at something, give them something to aim at! BIG DUH!

    But to the matter of discussion WHAT these people are realizing is their own safety is NOT GUARANTEED, the law abiding citizens have always known, moreover the law abiding citizens have known the only person to guarantee anything is NOT the government of local police force, they are the CLEAN-UP crew, hand you the paperwork and tell you have a nice day! (not saying they don’t care just everything has already happened and is OVER when they get there!) Especially during this Corona crap, in multiple area they are not even responding to armed robbery! how fucked up is that.

  24. avatar saran wrappe says:

    It’s good to read an article with the name of a friend and local gun shop owner quoted. If ever in South Orange County and needing a shooting lane head to On-Target Gun Range.

    They have quality people running the show, safety is job 1, and they had been outstanding when taking Boy Scouts to the range.

  25. avatar Ralph says:

    The nice thing about being a gun-hating liberal is that one can go right back to being a gun-hating liberal when the current unpleasantness ends.

    Lifelong indoctrination never goes away completely, it just fades into the background when it becomes inconvenient. And then it comes roaring back, like a case of antibiotic-resistant syphilis.

  26. avatar Randy Jones says:

    A lot of people complain about required training to get a firearm, but I think it is a good idea to review the Four Rules of Gun Safety before someone purchases a firearm. I don’t even have a complaint with a class for a CCDW permit. People should understand the basic laws.

    The best thing about all the anti-gunners and fence sitter buying guns right now is half of them will revert back in six or eight months and most will sell off their guns. Which means more lightly used (NIB) firearms on the market at a low price.

  27. avatar DCJ says:

    Did anyone go to the source website for this article? The one that shows a “.9mm” pistol. Really good work there…

    1. avatar Sam I am says:

      “Did anyone go to the source website for this article? The one that shows a “.9mm” pistol. Really good work there…”

      Don’t belittle the .9mm round; it is a great virus cell killer. (in an appropriately sized firearm)

  28. avatar MLee says:

    Anti-gun is like anti-dog or those who say they are “scared of dogs” They are DRAMA Queens and I have not a nano-second of time for stupid people like that. If they REALLY want to know how to act around dogs so NOT to attract attention from dogs, I’ll tell them but most want to act like ignorant drama queens for the attention.
    As far as anti-gun folks, most are simply ignorant about them. If they really want to learn, excellent.

  29. avatar Datahut says:

    ‘Projection’. Hmm, seems like, and I’m glad someone’s actually reading my comments of late.

  30. avatar Gus says:

    A few weeks ago, the first time DeWine, Ohio’s governor came on TV that afternoon with the first announcement about covid-19, I was at Vance Outdoors gun store picking up my 2020 Colt Python that had been pre-ordered since January. It took 5.5 hours just to get to the gun counter to pick up my pistol and another hour just to get from there through checkout. They’d closed anymore gun sales at 1:30 pm already, bringing the line stretched outside, inside and giving us numbers. In all those hours, it was pleasant enough striking up conversations with strangers. I’ve been gunsmithing, hunting, reloading for over 45 years and my best guestimate was that 75-80% of the people there were first time gun buyers, many stating that openly, out of those I’d bet that at least 60-75% were anti-gun/registration/restriction supporters, UNTIL the covid-19 panic began. It just proved exactly what I had known my whole life, with people it’s always different until it’s about them. After the scare dies down, it will probably go back to “nobody needs a gun” and the anti-gun group think, but the next time something like this happens, rest assured, we WILL see the same people trying to regulate/take/get rid of our RIGHTS to protect ourselves and our families being the first in line to get theirs first.

  31. avatar Alan says:

    While previously, their idiocy impacted on me, the responsible, at least somewhat knowledgeable and reasonably cautious gun owner, it has now bit them where they sit. Turnabout is fair play, isn’t it?

    As to the gun shop proprietor, the first time a prospective customer, in my shop, acted as he has described, I would politely escort said individual out the door, without regard to their color or sex.

  32. avatar GS650G says:

    From the article:
    “In this April 25, 2018 photo, a .9mm handgun produced by Honor Defense, a gunmaker in Gainesville, Ga., is displayed”

    I bet the magazine holds at least 150 rounds of .9mm ammo.

  33. avatar Otherwise... says:

    “…most people who believe they are anti-gun are actually just anti-stupid.”

    What in hell does that mean? Those who are anti-gun are NOT anti-stupid; they are stupid.

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