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Even before the facts of the matter have been ascertained, observers on the left side of the political spectrum are up in arms about the motives of the gunman in the Giffordss shooting, Jared Lee Loughner. “Palin needs to be held accountable for murder,” Elly-895483 commented underneath‘s post on threats of violence aimed at Gifford before today’s tragedy. In this rush to judgement Elly was–and is—not alone. TTAG commentator and gun blogger JadeGold left no words unminced: “Lack of gun control caused this.” Nor did Josh Sugarman, Executive Director of the Violence Policy Center and Huffington Post pro-gun control poster child: “America’s gun culture claims its latest victims.” CNN has jumped into this meme with both metaphorical feet . . .

“When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government, the anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this county is getting to be outrageous. Unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become sort of the capital,” ]Pima County Sheriff Clarence] Dupnik continued.

“We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry,” Dupnik said.

Arizona is a Republican stronghold where the party members hold a two-thirds majority in both chambers of the legislature and occupy the governor’s office.

Dupnik is a Democrat . . .

“People tend to pooh-pooh this business about the vitriol that inflames American public opinion by the people who make a living off of that. That may be free speech but it’s not without consequences,” Dupnik said.

The blogger at is riding the same train. His is marked gun ban.

I won’t get into questions of whether the Tea Party’s screaming about 2nd Amendment Solutions (by a Nevada senatorial candidate no less) are applicable here. But in an era when a lot of people claim common sense says we should be identifying terrorists at airports by assuming muslims and people with dark skin are more dangerous, why should we not assume that someone carrying a gun plans to use it?

Yeah, sure, you’re a God-fearing American who only wants to defend himself. But I’m a God-fearing American who wants to live in peace and not have to worry that the guy wearing a side-arm and the shirt with all the flags all over it is some ultra-right-wing nut who’s decided that liberals are a disease and he’s a doctor. So I should get a gun too?

No thanks.

Check your guns at edge of town, is my idea. Leave it home locked up. It worked in the Wild West, it should work here too.

Expect to see a LOT more of this in the mainstream media, as they prove the validity of the old term “knee-jerk liberal.” There is nothing in Loughner’s writings that suggests he was a right-winger. In fact, the inclusion of Hitler’s hate-filled screed Mein Kampf in his YouTube profile, and Representative Giffords’ Jewish ancestry, indicates that anti-semitism may have been in play.

Who knows? Not us. Not yet. Meanwhile, this from Wickedmo13 underneath the YouTube video “favorited” by Loughner.

Did you know she was on Palin’s target list? Im just saying did you know? and the list had crosshairs on everytarget. It was for the people who voted for the healthcare system. People are crazy and take shit too far, this is why ignorant symbolism in politics should not be allowed. Crazy shit!

So who’s going to decide what constitutes ignorant symbolism? Somehow I don’t think the left wants the right in on that discussion, even as they use Loughner and/or Giffords as a symbol of why we need more gun control.

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  1. It didn’t work in the wild west and it won’t work now. Guns are NOT BAD, some people are bad and they will be bad with a knife or bat or anything else of their choice. All of you gun hating morons (i.e. jadeloon and friends) haven’t got a clue. You fools love picking on guns whenever some psycho kills someone. These nuts will just use another method to kill you no matter what you do. A knife or bad or pipe or car or whatever will kill you just as dead with very little extra effort. Wait until these fools start making more homemade bombs, how are you going to stop that. It’s easier to make a bomb than a gun and they can learn it all online. It doesn’t matter what type of bans or laws you put in place, because these psycho’s can’t be stopped and your silly lil rules don’t apply to them, they only apply to law abiding citizens.

  2. Why wasn’t there an armed citizen there other than the madman??? If there was anyone else there that had a gun … the deaths could of ended at 2 instead of 7 with 12 more injured.

  3. Jeremiah, there was one. He was interviewed on CNN & specifically mentioned he was carrying his weapon. He was not at the scene at first but ran over when he heard the shots. He said the shooting had stopped when he arrived & restrained the shooter. He said he didn’t draw his weapon since the threat had stopped.

  4. I agree with Jermiah, that was one of my first thoughts when the news broke. Jadeloon will now want to ban long hair cuz this fool looks like a longhaired hippy freak.

  5. If Bush and Cheney were not held for murder what makes any of us think they
    will hold Palin. Whatever the Republican Party and the Tea Party do they
    get away with it. They talk hate and reload, they can start wars they lie
    about. They don’t care who dies. They are just sick people.
    You right wing nut jobs keep voting these horrible people in.
    Don’t blame the Democrats I have never seen us with ugly hateful signs.
    Look at what you carry and call your President.
    Then you cry over the state of your country look in the mirror and cry
    to yourself.

  6. Bush and Cheney didn’t murder anyone they just eliminated the bad guys, (saddam , al qaeda et al) and who did Sarah kill (maybe a bear or two and some caribou lol) so get it right fool.

    • You do not lie for murder, Bush lied and killed many in Iraq
      get your story straight. Palin speeches they are all hate driven.
      You need to listen more

    • That is all you have, is hate words.
      Yep you are a hater!
      This happened because of hate the Republican party and the Tea
      Party full of hate. Read and learn

  7. Sara, I once saw an anti-war protest in Portland, OR which featured effigies and a sign that said “F**k the troops”. It’s just just right-wing nutjobs, it’s all nutjobs, left included.

    • Not as much as the Right! Look at the Tea Party signs and what
      they day just hate and ugliness.
      Republican party no different.
      They have taken this country to an all time low.
      Look at what they call President Obama nothing but hate and
      ugly words. They are a shameful party!

      • People say ugly words about Obama because he’s a complete embarrassment. Yes, Bush was for the most part an embarrassment, too.

  8. Must any of you forget people have died and many wounded
    and Palin had a hit list. A little girl is dead.
    Palin should be feeling so much guilt and people say she is fit to be a President.
    Oh My God!!

    • Well, Palin has more government and leadership experience than Obama had when elected. She was a governor, not a community organizer that voted “present” all the time. Having said that, no, I don’t think she’d be a good President, either.

    • Speaking of hit lists, did you know the Obama administration has a hit list of U.S. citizens to be Murdered without Due Process or trial or even telling their families what the evidence against them is? I hope you are as outraged about that as you are about this. And if for some reason anyone thinks it’s not true, look it up. A head of national security said it right in front of Congress.

  9. Sara, please choose your words carefully.

    As of right now, the verdict is “plain crazy.”

    We don’t know motivations yet because he hasn’t said ANYTHING. Yet you are already talking up speculations. The only other thing we do know is that he is a drug user and thus a prohibited person. We’re working on the background check issue, separating the pragmatists from the idealists.

    He could not trust “this government.” Does he mean the whole system? Does he mean the administration? Which one? There was OBVIOUSLY hatred coming from the Tea Party and the right-wingers. There is also some left-wing hand-wringing that the healthcare bill didn’t do enough. THAT came from the lunatic fringe of the left as well. When your school’s own socialist party (Students for Social Equality) tried to write our state senator to not vote for the current health-care reform bill – something is not quite right with them either.

    Your speculations, screaming, passion for so-called “peace” and non-hatred, only serve to deepen the divisions in this country and is not productive whatsoever. You honestly should have gone to the Rally to Restore Sanity.

  10. Well, I agree Palin is not fit for the presidency. Her VP debate against Biden convinced me of that fact.

  11. Loughner and people like him are the reason I carry. And if he had continued to shoot as Hasan did, there was at least one armed citizen who ran to the sound of guns. It is not worth arguing with people like Sara, they will never understand – “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” There are those who take personal responsibility for their lives and the lives of others and there are those who rail against them.

    • When you have people like Palin who insite hate then this is what
      happens. She is irresponsible for her behavior. I’d rather have
      police protecting me than you with a gun. We have to many gun
      carriers and they should not have guns in their possessions this person
      was one of them. We give guns to anyone.
      Thank God they did not let him join the Army he might have gone
      off and killed many more innocent people the ones who he was
      supposed to fighting along side with.

      • How’s that “war on drugs” working? It’s a good thing all those drugs are banned so that no one can get them. Oh, wait….

        Do you honestly think if you take away guns from law-abiding citizens that criminals will no longer have guns or other harsh objects to hurt people with?

        I had a guy the other day from Australia marveling over some of the guns available in the U.S.. He said he’ll be sure to try some at the range the next time he’s in the states because in his country only the criminals have those kinds of guns.

      • The only legal way you can carry a gun in public, other than openly, is concealed – and this creep would have failed the licensing test from the get go.

        Now take that foot out of your mouth.

  12. If it weren’t for the great Boston Tea Party the Brits would still be running our country and we’ed all be speaking english (oops I guess that really wouldn’t matter) but if HITLER had won we wouldn’t be speaking at all cuz he would have killed us all. I like most people but I hate MORONS. I guess your kind democrats from WW I AND II were good in your eyes even thou millions died. How the hell is Sarah Palin responsible for this morons actions you fool. You need to read RABBIS post about PEOPLE BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS. You need to stop blaming others for the crimes of irrational morons. Gun haters like you and jadeloonybird need to face the reality of REAL LIFE and hold these criminals accountible for their CRIMES AND ACTIONS. Your boy CLINTON makes a great role model for our youth and country

      Why don’t you grow up no wonder this country is messed up.
      Name calling is all you have. Poor thing!
      I can tell you are a Tea Partier!
      Your Bush boy must have taught you it was ok to go an kill innocent
      people for lies. Oh and kill your military while he was at it for
      his insanity and lies. Yes you give us such good leaders.
      Go tell it to someone who cares to listen to you.

      • I’m pro-gun and I’m not a Teabagger – hmmmmm you want to try and pigeonhole me now?

    • Joe, I’m laughing out loud at your opening salvo: “Sara you’re so stupid that it isn’t even funny you moron.” [Ed: since deleted for violating TTAG’s anti-flaming policy.]

      Actually Sara is exactly right. Too many righties are into too much hate. This is just what happens. And it keeps on happening. Remember when Bill O’Reilly called for the killing of the abortion doctor, and it happened. Remember when Glenn Beck called for the destruction of Tides, and it almost happened. And who can forget old Jim Adkisson who explained all this in his manifesto.

      You can find links to all these shameful stories on my blog or using google. I’m not linking to them here because I noticed our host quoted my co-blogger without linking to him. Maybe that’s the way it works around here now.

      • Mike, This website doesn’t allow flames. The comment was posted during an extremely rare event (I was sleeping.) As soon as I saw it, I removed it and warned JOE to keep it real [respectful]. I disagree with Sara. She is clearly what we web guys call a troll. But I only censor for personal insults, and only when they get . . . personal. Where I draw the line between simple name-calling and . . . complex name-calling is subjective. But I do what I can to maintain civility.

      • As Bill Maher said, “The Second Amendment is there for people to protect themselves from those who invoke it at the wrong time.”

  13. Be glad there are Democrats in the world. We give great leaders
    and other countries admire us. All the Republicans give us and the Tea
    Party is haters and crazies!
    Look what is leading you, crazy people!
    President Obama is very intelligient try not to be to jealous of us ok!!
    You give us failures!!!
    Palin is a nut job!!!

  14. Bush’s grandfather supported Hitler, and if you don’t know this, then you
    are the loser and I’m the winner, who is smarter, I win!!!

    Read and learn and see what you gave the American people!
    keep on giving failures!!!!!

    • You’re right. It’s all Bush’s fault. He caused global warming. He shot Kennedy from the grassy knoll. He caused the mass extinction of the dionsaurs. He crucified Jesus. He voted for repeal of the 13th Amendment. His grandfather was a U-Boat commander. He stole the presidency from Al Gore. He’s in cahoots with space aliens who are polluting our precious bodily fluids. He’s the reason that libtards have the collective IQ of a box of hammers. Damn that Bush!

  15. Sara, I’ve not spoken of party affilliation, and I am not registered with any political party. I spoke simply of the Left (statist) impulse and the Right (personal responsibility) impulse. If you look at what the Bush family has always stood for politically, you will find they have been big-government Socialists all along, and despite GB II’s party affilliation, he has been and remains a man of the LEFT, as was his father and grandfather.

    More importantly right now, however is to remember these victims in your personal prayers………

    • When these right wingers come out and act like they are so righetous
      it is very upsetting and they must be put in their place.
      They name call, have the most ugly signs about President Obama,
      don’t come on here calling names all the time, that is all I’m saying
      they use no intelligience to talk about what is happening.
      These Republicans and Tea Party are nothing but biggots
      and haters. This is a free country.
      They insite this type of behavior that is all I’m trying to say on
      here. You speak of hate people are listening and they will act
      upon it case and point.
      These people do not take responsibility for their actions.
      So grow up and stop the name calling and insiting hatered.

      • And you probably should have worded your request a little more subtly.

        Your screaming only added to the fire.

        “Speak softly, and carry a big stick.” – Theodore Roosevelt

        • I was not yelling but as a Democrat I get very
          offended at the names you and your parties call
          the President. I mean is that necessary to insite
          that much hate towards him when all of you know
          it is all a lie.
          Then you ask what is wrong with this country?
          Look within yourself and find the answers.

          Please Bush was a terrible President that is not
          a lie it is just the truth.
          He lied to go to war and it is was a shameful
          act to do.
          Just saying my opinion!

          When I hear lock and load well pleas eit means to
          lock and load your weapons. Your Party has lost
          its grip on sanity.

          • I am NOT a Republican. I left the Republican party after the Texan village idiot invaded Iraq and did not focus on Afghanistan. The war effort over there is now hampered – my friends are dying because of a sustained insurgency and my uncle’s murderers have not been caught. I wouldn’t give two shits it Bush is strung up for war crimes (and profiteering, if it can be proven such).

            I am NOT a Democrat. Although I probably would agree with a lot of you. After extensive analysis, it looks like Giffords closely resembles my views. The fact that a lot of Democrats are supported by the antigun Joyce Foundation is troubling to me. Why would you pull the rug out from the peaceable working-class man who earned his money honestly when some robber tries to attack him?

            I do not agree with ALL of President Obama’s policies, but it is a waste of energy trying to even come up with those silly names and violence and rhetoric. Violence should be a resort, preferably the last, and moreso, in response to actual physical violence – not theoretical, but actual. Why else are cops armed for that matter? Laws are nothing but suggestions without the use of force to back up their enforcement. Unless you are seeing massive amounts of people being arrested for an unjust law (which hasn’t even been proven yet) – there is no reason for the violence from the 2nd Amendment to be unleashed.

            Look up the Battle of Athens in Tennessee – where a corrupt politician and sheriff tried to intimidate voters into voting for him. A poll-watcher was shot by one of the corrupted deputies. Later on the town’s returning GIs from WWII raided an armory and besieged the jailhouse which was sheltering the corrupt sheriff and his deputies and the scumbag politician. The sheriff quickly surrendered.

            Thankfully, with the use of mass media and WikiLeaks, we have more information on the wrongdoings (potential and actual) of individuals so that they may be brought to justice. But when the individuals in government themselves are corrupted, and refuse to yield power when ordered to do so, and fool the enforcers into doing their bidding, that, unfortunately is where blows come to blows.




            Fueled the fire.

            It is how the American Revolution was started, when British troops arrived to confiscate the arms of the colonists – THAT is naked aggression. But as of right now, there IS NO naked aggression by The State unless you hear of massive arrests of otherwise peaceable citizens. You do NOT act on THEORETICAL violence. ONLY ON ACTUAL. So yes, Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, let’s all hold them accountable as well as this freak.

            But do NOT brush all of us gun owners with the same brush.

  16. Now let us pray for the victims of this shooting and may both parties
    remember this and stop the hate on both sides. More right than left Our country was not based on hatred.
    May their families find comfort and love from all over
    the world at this most difficult time.

  17. No one wants to take away anyones guns. But we need to do more to make
    sure guns do not get into the wrong hands. Our politicians have been very
    lax on this part. Anyone can get a gun, and if they can’t they get them off
    the street. Responsible gun owners I have no problem with any one owning
    a gun, but when anyone who might have mental issues is allowed to pick up a gun
    the there is a real serious problem. Our government and each state needs to find
    a way to make sure that guns don’t end up in the wrong hands.
    It is never a gun that kills people it is the person with the gun that leads to
    violence and heartbreak for many families.

    • The problem is defining mental illness itself. With the way politics are these days, I wouldn’t be surprised if the wackos on either side were racing to label each other as “clinically insane.” There is also the issue of mental health reporting as well as actual diagnosis itself. (Yes, there ARE doctors who make wrong diagnoses, as a medical student, we hear about them every so often during lectures) It is unfortunately the same problem with Cho, the Tech shooter, where his mental health records were not turned over to a judge in order to be labeled as an incompetent, possibly due to HIPAA concerns. Loughner should have been convicted of his drug crime years ago and not be sent to diversionary. Already being an addict and possibly in therapy should have prohibited him.

      There are individuals who are truely schizophrenic/mentally disabled. There are individuals with depression and PTSD who may never get over it. But some do get over their PTSD and depression. A book most commonly advised to read in CCW classes is “On Killing” and “On Combat” be Lt. Col. David Grossman, in which he talks about ways to suppress PTSD.

      There must be an open discussion about the status of mental illness rather than the issue of gun control itself, although we are working on background checks at the moment, which is probably the best we can do. One should look to the military and LEO agencies for INSPIRATION, not for a carbon copy of vetting members. Remember, though, that there are bad apples in LEO and military circles as well, as evidenced from David Codrea’s “Only Ones” files.

      I have already laid out plans for possible Concealed Carry Reform in our state and I will hopefully be presenting these ideas at our state legislature’s Lobby Day very soon.

  18. I have always loved this quote, “Speak softly, and carry a big stick.” – Theodore Roosevelt. But it really should have said “speak softly, and carry a big gun, a really really big gun.” (like a S&W 500 lol)

  19. ok… how can the media blame this one on the tea party when this animal doesn’t fit the tea party stereo type? when a social security drawing glen beck watching grandma drives her government bought scooter into a crowd and opens up with an ar15 while screaming about keeping government out of her medicare, then and only then can we blame palin… maybe

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