“While we all need to respect the rights of hunters and sport-shooters to have access to their weapons, we also need to respect the vulnerability of human life that is threatened by allowing weapons to be too easily available. People of good conscience need to take this conversation back from the extremes into real life in which real lives are at stake.” So proclaimeth a multi-faith statement published in IL’s qctimes.com signed by a farrago of religious leaders. I can’t speak for the reaction to this anti-gun screed by armed members of other faiths. But wouldn’t you just know it: this multi-denominational “call for a conversation” is signed by a rabbi [not shown] . . .
That doesn’t make any sense. While Jews are allowed to kill animals for any “purposeful need,” kosher slaughter is the order of the day. (Try doing that to a bounding buck.) Equally, the Torah specifically prohibits hunting for sport.
Culturally, to their detriment, hunting is to Jews what deep-fried mozzarella sticks are to Delphine Lo Grasso. And what is all this about hunters’ and sports shooters’ “rights”? Americans who shoot and kill squirrels, pronghorn sheep, wild hogs, etc. for meat or sport have no special claim on the Second Amendment.
Why would they? The idea that shooting [mostly] defenseless animals is sacrosanct under the U.S. Constitution—while maintaining that defending one’s life and family with a firearm against a lethal threat is subject to “reasonable restrictions”—is patently absurd.
To [unknowingly] prove the point, the Quad-City religious leaders assure their adherents that they believe that hunters and sport-shooters should “have access to their weapons.” Unless they mean people hunting bears, mountain lions and the like, the word “firearm” would have been more appropriate.
But hey, what do gun grabbers care about linguistic precision?
Not to be profane (much), they should take a lesson from Risky Business. Every now and then should say, “What the fuck am I talking about?” As Miles pointed out (more or less), asking “What the fuck did I just say?” gives you freedom. Freedom brings opportunity. Opportunity makes your future.
Moving on . . .
The Land of Lincoln’s religious leaders urge us to “respect the vulnerability of human life that is threatened by allowing weapons to be too easily available.” Hello? America’s Armed Intelligentsia respect the vulnerability of life. That’s why they have guns for self defense.
Yes, even “assault” rifles. And .50 caliber rifles. Big guns, little guns, strangely chambered guns. I’m not saying that all of Americans’ firearms must be for self-defense or defense against government tyranny. But I am saying that the easier it is for Americans to get a gun the easier it is for them to protect and defend life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Hey, you want to talk vulnerable? Try facing down a violent thug without a gun. Let me know how that works out for you. As for the idea that curtailing the supply of “too easily available” weapons is the key to protecting the sanctity of human life, prove it. It hasn’t worked so far. Anywhere. Ever. Citations upon request.
We acknowledge that access to guns is but one part of the issue, however, the consequences of our inability to have this conversation should be obvious by now. Those who believe it hasn’t happened to them or theirs should take notice — gun violence happens to all of us when it happens to our neighbors, near or distant. We are all immeasurably impoverished when one person needlessly dies. How much more loss can we bear? We are united in the belief that we have lost too much already. Please join us in imagining and creating a safer world.
What is it with gun grabbers and “having a conversation”? What part of “shall not infringe” needs further discussion? Shall we discuss the proposition that “if gun control can save one life it’s worth degrading the God-given individual right to keep and bear arms as protected by in the Second Amendment”? Pass.
That said, yes we can imagine a safer world. Gun rights advocates can imagine a world where all American children learn how the Second Amendment protects our way of life and life itself. A world where they’re taught basic marksmanship. Where buying a gun is as easy as buying a quart of milk, and a significant proportion of the population keeps and bears arms.
A world where criminals fear armed citizens more than they (the bad guys) fear the police.
So, finally, my answer as to why Rabbi Tamar Grimm signed this ridiculous rant. Because she’s an idiot. And for all her group lamentations about the vulnerability of human life and needless death, this “person of good conscience” is a dangerous idiot. Spreading a utopian vision of civilian disarmament that always leads to a dystopian nightmare of unimaginable horror.
You don’t have to be a Jew to know that the road to hell is paved to good intentions. But it helps. Except when it doesn’t. And that puts us all in danger.
Um, Rabbi [Reform] Grimm is a “she.” And, as Professor Jacobson of the Legal Insurrection blog has repeatedly pointed out, the Reform Rabbis are extension of the Democratic Party [the more liberal parts thereof, indeed]. A typical kumbaya-nik.
Text amended. Thanks.
Nope, to the left of Dems and getting lefter since Rabbi Yoffe, no great conservative himself, retired.
That’s funny…because my church has organized men’s group shooting events. That’s here in the Bay Area, CA where gun control advocates and haters thrive!
Nothing for the ladies…?
Everything you need to know about the Rabbi:
http://tricityjewishcenter.org/grimm.htm
I guess being a chick rabbi doesn’t pay well. . . . . where do we donate for the teeth whitner treatments. just kidding. But seriously.
tl;dr
Their religious freedom and my freedom of arms are at the same level. They would freak the hell out if I tried to infringe on their beliefs (rightly so), but they have no problem trying to disarm me.
/Illinois resident. F this state.
+1
Yet another reason I choose not to join a church. The man at the pulpit speaking on my behalf and with my backing even though I did nothing to consent except joining his congrgation. I will speak for myself and the only groups I have joined are the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and SAF. They have my consent to speak on my behalf.
The man in the pulpit isn’t there to speak on your behalf.
He’s there to speak on God’s behalf.
You’re in a sad place if you still believe that particular fairy tale.
Sigh. Once more: if your religion does not respect your right to self-defense, it’s your religion that needs to be reconsidered, not the right to self-defense.
As a retired [Orthodox] pulpit Rabbi, I can tell you that Judaism endorses, and actually requires, self-defense. What the Reform believe in [after all, reformation means change, so it’s by definition not the original version], or the Conservative [who are conservative relative to the reformers] I cannot tell you.
In fact, the right to self-defense in Orthodox Jewish Law is considered self-evident. About the obligation there is much discussion as to the why and how, but none about the actual practical bottom-line requirement to defend yourself.
And please, don’t ask me why so many Jews favor gun control.
I bought a number of my first guns and got a lot of good advice from an Orthodox Jew who runs a gun shop in Nashville, TN. To characterize any group as monolithic is the same kind of error as racism, and we’ll leave that sort of thinking to the control freaks.
And please, don’t ask me why so many Jews favor gun control.
Eugenics? The majorty of those who were for it died in events like the Battle of Masada? Or is this whole jewish non-violence thing recent (as in the past 100 years or so)?
I find this interesting. Just the other month I met with the leader of my faith’s local branch to let him know that I was going to be carrying. Not only was he fine with it but started talking about getting some training so he could carry effectively (Washington state doesn’t have a training requirement).
Another interesting thing is if you notice, some of the most conservative religions didn’t sign that document. e.g. Seven Day Adventists, Catholics, Mormons. I don’t know what to make of it and don’t want to start a religious debate but I find that interesting.
My wife is a Mormon. They preach self reliance and helping each other and not counting on government. Food storage and guns go hand in hand. And Utah is their homeland. If you’ve ever been to Utah it’s pretty good about gun rights.
Good for your wife, Jwm. The Mormons are a fascinating bunch.
I can believe the Mormons wouldn’t count on government. Its one reason the moved out west. A secondary reason would have to be that they were forced to officially give up polygamy in order to get Utah’s Statehood ratified.
Yeah, my wife is still pissed about the whole polygamy thing. She says that having more than 1 woman around makes the housework easier. I offer to help and she tells me it’s not the man’s place to do domestic things.
Once she retires we’re planning on moving to Utah. I’ll probably have to give in and take a second wife then.
Does she have a sister?
If this is the matt from chicago, no she doesn’t.
what if it isnt that matt from chicago?
You’re trying to hard.
so whats her sisters number?
Read up on how Illinois treated the Mormons way back when.
That’s Seventh-day Adventists, and as someone who was raised in that–um, must avoid flames–faith, I can tell you that while some Adventists store food for the coming apocalypse, most tend to be quietly conservative. I don’t recall any official position about guns, though my parents were solidly against them.
I’m quite pleased to have escaped that, um, faith group that isolates itself from the rest of the world.
To paraphrase Barbara Ehrenreich, this is just another helpless spasm of gun grabbing rage. The gun control lot is pretty marginalized at the moment and it shows in their desperate pleas for “common sense gun control” and “conversations about gun violence.” No thanks.
used to live in the QC area, most people in illinois think their state is normal and don’t even realize that in most other places guns are used for things other than hunting and shooting clay pigeons. self defense and concealed carry doesn’t even cross their mind….
I live in the QC area, most people in illinois think their state is normal and don’t even realize that in most other places guns are used for things other than hunting and shooting clay pigeons. self defense and concealed carry doesn’t even cross their mind….
move to missouri! freedom is closer than you think!
No Sikhs, Buddhists, or Hindus on the list, eh? Only one Imam as well. Methinks the East understands human nature better than modern Christians and Jewish people. Not that Jewish people are Western really. Just Easterners in denial. So apparently liberalism collides with reality and loses once more.
“Those who believe it hasn’t happened to them or theirs should take notice — gun violence happens to all of us when it happens to our neighbors, near or distant.”
My neighbors didn’t know there was a violent asshole in my living room one night.
My distant neighbors weren’t there when I faced violent assault in my own house.
My local sheriff was probably eating donuts 10 miles away when the bad guy was bearing down.
The only friends I had that night were my wits and my Model 92F 9mm.If these religious leaders had a quantum of credibility they’d be condemning the criminals , not their intended victims.
My pastor carries a gun…
In church…
At sunday school…
But then again we live within a 5 minute drive of a place known as “methland”.
Credibility lost at hunters and sport shooters.
That’s not why the 2A exists.
Learn about your country before you open the stinking hole in your head and prove yourself a fool.
-What is it with gun grabbers and “having a conversation”?-
They don’t want to have a conversation. This is their deceitful way of saying they want to whine and preach at you until you change your mind and see things their way. They can’t understand “shall not be infringed” because oppressive infringement is all they and their tyrannical cronies want to accomplish, in every aspect of life. The day we find an anti who actually wants to have a two-way conversation in which truth is the objective is the day pigs fly in self-built rainbow powered jetpacks.
More like the day they turn into an anti-anti-gun control guy. 🙂
Thanks
Robert
“While we all need to respect the rights of hunters and sport-shooters”
— Translation: we don’t really respect them and will one day take away those privileges too.
What is it with the gun-grabbers and their claim to being honest and realistic, being in touch with real people, and real life? Duh, obviously innocent people do get hurt and murdered by accidental or irresponsible gun misuse. Every move or attempt by the Left gun-grabbers demonstrates their anti-open and candid approach, and ignorance of gun ownership among citizens. Their actions and words also demonstrate their ignorance or willful manipulation of the 2A and how guns reduce crime overall.
Yawn….a bunch of liberal mainline protestants….playing with some liberal Jews and Muslims.
Big deal.
Someone please remind these religious leaders that we live in a secular nation. They’re welcome to exercise their rhetorical powers, but the law remains what it is.
Speaking of religion, though, I prefer the Havamal, the sayings of Odin the High One on this matter:
Let a man never stir on his road a step
without his weapons of war;
for unsure is the knowing when need shall arise
of a spear on the way without.
(Verse 38)
Rabbi Tamar Grimm is an unrealistic Jewish religious leader similar to earlier generations of European rabbis whose modern-outlook naiveness and ignorance helped the Nazis achieve the murder of millions. There are some very good reasons why American Jewish males (once they hit 13 years old and have passed their Bar Mitvah) are fleeing from attending democrat-liberal pro-feminist inspired Jewish Reform and Conservative Synagogues. One joke is that the number of Jewish men attending reform services can be counted lower each service. The more women’s values and political influence take over the more most men take off, turn off, and ghost away.
Time for me to go for my bike ride to the gun store.
Remember “faith-based” groups? We just thought that was going to give religious groups more input into the government. In reality, that and the patriot act gave government more input and control into religious groups. HL Securty now actively pumps money into churches who preach the liberal point on many topics, gun control not the least of them. The also encourage a mis-interpretation of Romans and say it means to “do whatever your government says”. Continue your vigilance!
What you state is in clear violation of the 1st Amendment. Government cannot have a say one way or the other (Promoting, or prohibiting) one religious sect over another.
Remember “faith-based” groups? We just thought that was going to give religious groups more input into the government. In reality, that and the patriot act gave government more input and control into religious groups. HL Securty now actively pumps money into churches who preach the liberal point on many topics, gun control not the least of them. They also encourage a mis-interpretation of Romans and say it means to “do whatever your government says”. Continue your vigilance!
“They also encourage a mis-interpretation of Romans and say it means to “do whatever your government says”.
Are you serious? I guess I’m not really surprised as tactics like that one seem to be the human dilemma with being manipulated and controlled by elites and institutions.
Why not just let the savages continue to kill each other in Chicago?
It doesn’t matter what this sh!tbird gub’ment shill says, I’ll carry regardless. If he doesn’t like it then he can lump it. He’s just another childish and inexperienced (in life) lib.
This”multi-faith statement” reflects faith in a pacifism that is derived from Biblical ignorance and greater faith in liberal religious/political agendas rather than acual Bible doctrine. Not only is self-defense aGod-given right, but defense of 3rd parties is commanded by God.See Leviticus 19:16;Psalms82:4;Proverbs 3:27&28;24:11&12; Matthew 7:12; I Timothy 5:8; James 2:14-17, just to name a few examples.Also,God gives us gunsmiths and thus the means to protect ourseleves:” Behold I Myself have created the smith who blows the fire of coals, and brings out hte weapon for its work; and I have created the destroyer to ruin[bad guys].” What This pass-the-buck-to-the-cops mentality does is get the people they’re supposed to be physically & spiritually saving killed. “oh well, nothing I can do,guess we’re all gonna die.” Wrong-O Eeyore! There’s God’s armed trained citizens here!
They can Bring out their rabbi.
We can bring ours (click here)
First of all, while I’m not of Jewish descent, I do have respect for Israel.
Second, It seems these Reformed Rabbis have in the name of change forsaken the Torah (or the Christian Old Testament). Therefore, I refuse to listen to their tainted rhetoric.
As to the statements made about “sport” hunting… Yes… I’d say the Torah is against killing for the sport of it. I’d also say that it is NOT against hunting for meats and skins, as long as the kill is done as humanely as possible.
I’d also say that it isn’t against self-defense. If someone were to break into your home at night, you are not guilty of murder if they were killed. (It is safely assumed that they would kill you if you resisted.)
The Torah is also for the protection of the innocent, helpless, and weak, even if it comes to killing the aggressor(s).
This Rabbi Tamar Grimm has turned her back on the Torah!
These kind of “multi-faith” organizations are always the same, a smattering of really small liberal congregations that steadfastly refuse to allow any of the conservative evangelical churches within sight of their meetings. All the large, mainly suburban churches don’t do documents like these. So, these itty bitty churches cling to mainstream leftism and their buddies in the news media are kept on speed dial. Meanwhile a good Sunday is 50 people. The mega churches of thousands preach the bible and let the 2nd Amendment take care of itself. Once you decide to try to keep your church “relevant”, you might as well close the doors, it’s dead.
It seems most “multi-faith” systems tend to dishonor all the faiths involved by picking and choosing what sounds easiest on the ears and minds of those involved, skipping all the “hard stuff” of the religions chosen.
As a faith leader (a Christian pastor) in Illinois, I wasn’t asked about this statement. Perhaps that’s because I still had my gun in my car from my hunting outing yesterday, or maybe it’s because I shoot with the leaders in my church, but regardless, this multi-faith group doesn’t speak for all religious folks in Illinois. Just like some pointed out above that we can’t stereotype others monolithically, as a Christian in Illinois, I disagree with this statement. According to the laws of this great, cough, state, I’m not allowed to legally carry for self-defense. I am allowed to hunt and to shoot for recreation, and I exercise those rights.
Once read that for the moral man as a Freeman in America, providing for armed self defense, defense of family, other people, property and possessions is the first and foremost obligation of a moral man. If for no other reason than out of humble respect for their Creator.
Makes simple sense without even thinking about it.
So, for moral men of good conscience who haven’t ‘provided arms for their defense’, what’s the thinking there again?
Conscientious objection? That government’s now filled with Angels and the heathens will suddenly abide by the golden rule for people with good intentions?
That some dialogue and just a few more laws will do something that no law in 5,500 of human history has done yet?
Beggin’ forgiveness here if anyone’s offended, ( remember, condemn the sin and not so much the sinner ) but for those followers of the Judeo-Christian philosophy, ( one in the same that this purely American, Constitutional Republic was founded on ) who haven’t noticed…isn’t there a whole group of people that’s been at war amongst each other for over 1,000 years and are more than a little involved in a real life holy war against all non-believers? And that surely includes Christians?
So if Christians don’t stand up for themselves, who will?
Just asking that’s all, no offense intended.
Maybe these people should “have a conversation” with the bad guys and get back to us.
Guns Save Life’s response:
Dear Quad City Clergy:
The gun control you advocate is racist, classist and sexist. The vast majority of Americans don’t support those things.
Furthermore, human beings have experienced a time when ownership of weapons was prohibited to the common man. It was called the Medieval times and most of us have no desire to return to that lifestyle.