How the New GLOCK G21 Revolutionized the Gun Industry in 1991

GLOCK G21 45 ACP

Luis Valdes for TTAG

Gather around kids, we’re going to take a trip back into the past so you shooters coming of age today can understand how good you have it.

WABAC Wayback machine sherman Mr. Peabody

By Source, Fair use, Link

In 1991, the gun industry was, to a degree, a stagnant, faltering, lethargic beast that couldn’t innovate its way out of a wet paper bag. Designs moved forward at a snail’s pace. There was the jump from revolvers to semi-automatics, but the layout and designs were still mostly cemented in old ideas.

Metal-framed, double action/single action, hammer-fired guns. SIG SAUER, Beretta, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, CZ, etc., pretty much mirrored each other when it came to the 9mm platform.

Make a gun that’s basically a Hi-Power in size, with similar capacity, and make it double action capable. Even HK trying to be different at the time was still pushing their amazingly expensive and complicated P7 series.

The .45 ACP market was largely the same. You had companies look at the basic idea and layout of the 1911, make a double action-capable pistol, and other than that, don’t change much.

GLOCK, however, was the outlier. We all know the story by now. Lightweight, polymer framed, striker-fired, higher capacity compared to the competitors at the time, yadda, yadda.

Why did I mention the year 1991? Because in 1991, the .45 ACP was still a popular duty round and a number of law enforcement agencies still wanted it even though .40 S&W was released a year before.

The problem with .45 ACP was capacity. That was always an issue and one reason why .40 S&W did so well. But back to the topic at hand Prior to 1991, .45 ACP was mostly relegated to single-stack guns with seven and eight round capacities. They were big, heavy beasts, too.

But in 1991 two new guns were released. One that was clearly an outgrowth of the old mindset and one that wasn’t.

The Ruger P90 was released in 1991 and was a fine representation of how staid most companies were in their designs. Here was another a DA/SA pistol, as complicated as a 1911 with its swing link, as large as a 1911, with a seven round capacity and a weight of 34oz.

Yes, the P90 was a reliable gun, but it was a beast. The ergonomics were only OK and the gun was covered in sharp edges. The trigger pull was average for the era…9 to 10 lbs in double action and 3lbs to 4lbs in single action.

By 1991, the market was screaming for higher capacity. It was the era of the cocaine and crack epidemics, high violent crime rates, and a perception that cops were being outgunned by bad guys (which to a degree, they were).

And what Ruger released for the .45 ACP duty market was a heavy, low capacity gun to compete with the other dated designs like the S&W Model 4506 (8 rds & 41.6 oz), SIG P220 (7 rds & 30.4 oz), the Colt Double Eagle (8 rds & 41.52 oz), and of course the 1911 Government model (7 rds or 8 rds & 40 oz).

That same year, GLOCK released the G21.

Here, you have a .45 ACP pistol that held 13 rounds of .45 ACP ammunition, and weighed 26.0oz. That’s almost a half pound lighter than the P90 with almost twice the capacity. The gun was smooth for the most part, with no rough or sharp edges and had a constant trigger pull weight of 5.5 lbs.

GLOCK found a way to make them affordable and pass the cost savings to the consumer. The overall design was simple and worked extremely well. The G21 got a lot of attention and cannibalized the sales of every .45 ACP on the market. The 4506, P220, P90, and especially the 1911 were lumbering dinosaurs waiting to be killed off by the fallout from the G21 asteroid strike.

To put things in perspective, the G21 weighed less than a Beretta 92FS, SIG P226, S&W 5903, and all of its other contemporary Wonder Nine-era competitors’ designs and offered harder-hitting .45 ACP.

It was that radically different at the time and the G21 took the law enforcement market by storm. My first agency was a firm believer in the G21 as were many others in Florida. The G21 was simple and supremely reliable.

Most shooters coming of age today have no grasp of how revolutionary that was. The arrival of GLOCK in the 80s and early 90s completely changed the designs and mindset of the handgun industry.

Some new shooters today complain about a G21 being big or heavy. It they only knew…. And I say that as a fan of those DA/SA Wonder Nines and boat anchor DA/SA single stack .45’s. But they’re all outdated and GLOCK is the reason why.

And let’s head off the comment entries asking how a GLOCK can be Perfection if it requires hundreds of dollars to fix.

GLOCKs don’t need fixing. They’re a very easy platform to customize, which is where a lot of the confusion comes into play. Because they’re easy to customize and there are dozens of choices in aftermarket products, lots of people upgrade them. I pretty much keep mine stock except for night sights and a factory 3.5 lbs trigger connector bar. But that’s not “fixing” in my book.

Whether you like GLOCKs or hate them, the market wouldn’t be what it is today without them. So take solace in knowing that the massive abundance of other excellent, dependable, boringly reliable, polymer-framed, striker-fired handguns like the SIG P320, S&W M&P 2.0, Walther PPQ and others exist because of GLOCK and how they revolutionized the market a generation ago.

comments

  1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    Yep, the Egyptians had their Bronze Age, the Romans had their Iron Age and we’ve got the Plastic Age.

    History will not remember us fondly.

    1. avatar Arc says:

      Nano-particle pollution. Plastics aren’t the worst thing yet.

      1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        History will not remember the Nano-particle Age fondly either.

    2. avatar possum, destroyer of arachnids says:

      After the plastic age I think history has been cancelled

  2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    And now the gun industry is back to stagnation, with everyone producing clones of Glocks.

    I would also question the “easy platform to customize” assessment. You can’t put new grips on a Glock. You can’t do much of anything to the frame. While you can improve the pull weight of the trigger, you can’t really make it a good trigger. They are what they are – a commodity handgun.

    1. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

      If I had to choose only a single handgun for permanent bug-out and leave all others behind, my 1911 speaks to me. But even though I swore for years I’d never own a silly “plastic” gun, I eventually tried a Glock (and liked it), then bought one to begin training with it (and liked it), then built another and customized it with upgrades to match my tastes and skillset. Now I own several in different sizes and models. I’m now a Glock fanboi as much as an original 1911 supporter.

      Revolvers, 1911s, Glocks, XDs, derringers, big-ball magnums, pirate muskets…whatever. Choose what suits you, train with it to remain proficient, and enjoy it. And always be willing to take a newbie to the range for day of bang-pow and a chat about the 2nd Amendment.

  3. avatar tdiinva says:

    Let’s not head off the discussion of Glock imperfection. Fixing the Glock spawned the customization business not the other way around. Gun owners found Glock pistols to be cheap, reliable and durable but the first attribute came with at the cost of bad trigger and plastic sights. This created a secondary market to fix these problems which grew into customization market.

    And the light weight also sharpened the recoil and made follow up shots less accurate and the GET less pleasant to shoot than all steel designs.

    1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      “….Let’s not head off the discussion of Glock imperfection. Fixing the Glock spawned the customization business not the other way around….”

      Maybe I’m misreading your context, but no Glocks did not spawn customization. We were customizing (spending ridiculous amounts) before Glock came along. Especially on 1911s and good gunsmiths got paid because of it.

      1. avatar tdiinva says:

        I agree. I was referring strictly to the idea that people woke up one morning and Glocks are ubercustomizable. It was more like let’s fix the stuff that makes the Glock crappy and then it evolved from there.

  4. avatar Dr. Michael S. Brown says:

    Let’s not forget the lack of an external safety, which gave us many self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the leg or butt or worse when people got distracted while re-holstering.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      absent a Saf-t-Bloc…Glocks have never been a safe gun to own or carry….just a given……

      1. avatar Gunny B says:

        Hey Frank… The gun WILL NOT fire itself. It is as 100% safe as the person operating it. Your statement tells me that you are incompetent with firearms and should get some serious firearms training. Absent that, look at just about anyone’s “Firearms Safety Rules” and pretty near the top of every single one you’ll see a rule that says something like, “Keep your finger off the trigger until you are aimed in at your target and ready to fire”.

        “Life is like a box of chocolates”…

        1. avatar Ranger Rick says:

          There have been AD’s related to pieces of clothing which comprised the trigger safety with no human fingers present. These have not occurred with thumb safeties engaged nor real double action semi-automatics.

    2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      “…..when people got distracted ..”

      This is a training, mind-set issue, not a Glock issue.

      Simply fix is Don’t get distracted.

    3. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

      Keep your booger hooker off the bang switch.

      1. avatar Coffee Addict says:

        “keep your booger hook off the bang switch”… omg.

        that is SO CLEVER!! did you come up with that yourself? everyone should start saying that! Everyone! all the time! EVERY TIME someone lists the 4 rules! it really screams “gun savvy professional who adds value to a discussion”

        it’s so clever!

        1. avatar Jon in CO says:

          Are you new to this realm? That’s as old as 1911’s.

          But yes, it is great.

    4. avatar Jon in CO says:

      The Glock pistol in any size or caliber WILL NOT fire unless the trigger is pulled to the rear, disengaging the striker block. If all parts are in working order, I will bet my life on the fact that the gun will never “AD”. Accidental discharges are a made up thing. The word accident should not exist in the English language. These guns have been thrown against walls, dragged behind cars/trucks, and for good measure, dropped out of helicopters at 500ft and blown up with tannerite. They WILL NOT discharge.

      “Self inflicted” wounds are just that, self inflicted. Learn to not be a dumbass with a firearm and you won’t shoot yourself or anything/anyone else until you mean to. Everyone just trying to make up reasons that they’re “not safe” “don’t point right” “bad grip angle” grips are too big, etc are trying to compensate for their lack of training, competence, and other choices when comparing Glocks to whatever other gun.

      Whatever happens, it is due completely and strictly to negligence, barring natural disasters.

  5. avatar RSic says:

    And now Glock is the dinosaur, tell us how they changed from day one to present?

    1. avatar Cloudbuster says:

      The parting on the left
      Is now a parting on the right
      And the beards have all grown longer overnight.

    2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

      “And now Glock is the dinosaur, tell us how they changed from day one to present?”

      Attach points integral to the frame.

      Next smart-ass question? 🙂

  6. avatar TruthTellers says:

    Glock was a revolution for the semi auto market 30 years ago, today they’re just a retread of old ideas. They still work, but there’s no innovation anymore. Of course, when there are and have been so many guns made, it’s hard to continue to innovate in a way that will be profitable and successful in the market.

    So that begs the question of what is it people want now? IMO, I think people want better shooting pocket guns like the LCP, CW380, etc. in a .32 caliber. Lighter recoil, less stress on those small frames, decently powerful to stop a threat. The NAA Guardian is too heavy, hard recoil, the P-32’s trigger is way too heavy, and the Beretta is just too large, but the DA/SA is great.

    Full size pistols there’s not much left to bring to market, maybe more 10mm doublestacks as there’s not as many of them as there are 9, .40, .45.

    Even in 2019 there’s still room for innovative guns that buck the current trends, the issue is all the manufacturers (except Kel-Tec) are copycatting each other. Sig comes out with the P365, Glock does the same and so will everyone else. Springfield makes a DA/SA polymer compact single stack, just wait everyone else will do the same.

    1. avatar Jean-Claude says:

      There are some really good pocket pistols on the market. The Kahr CW380/P380 is a very nice pistol—if you get one that works. Mine is great, but there are plenty of reports of unreliable pistols.

      SIG changed the game with the P365—-but nobody else has stepped up to accept the challenge. The G43X isn’t really the same thing. SIG’s pistol put 10 rounds into a Kahr CM9 sized package. Glock just made the grip longer.

      1. avatar How_Terrible says:

        I still don’t get what’s so special about the P365…

        1. The Chinesium internals are pretty special.

        2. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Nothing.

        3. avatar Red in CO says:

          You can’t tell by simply reading the specs, but if you shoot one… hoo boy. My buddy has one and it’s honestky pretty impressive. I have no love for Sig and I certainly wouldn’t trust my life to one of their guns but even I have to admit it’s quite an impressive pistol. Far as I know there’s nothing else on the market quite like that one

    2. avatar Joe in NC says:

      Glock has the G? (cant remember the number) with the rotating barrel. Only available in Europe for the time being. I think they’re still innovating.

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        G46

  7. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    I attended a demonstration at Ft. Benning, GA about this time. A law enforcement supplier had secured use of one of ranges and invited reps from the manufacturers they carried to show off their newest products. Everyone you would expect to see there was. Including Glock with new, but not yet released 21. Each rep was given a few minutes with a short Q&A after. Then we were allowed to shoot anything we wanted using their ammo. At that time the Glock didn’t interest me, one in .45 piqued my curiosity. It was a typical army rifle range with mil-park targets set up at 25 meters for handguns. After two or three rounds at 25 meters, and a couple of ranging shots, I began to engage the 75 meter head and shoulders target. It would pop up and I’d put it down. With boring regularity. I gained a new respect for Glocks that day. H&K was there too with the P7M10. I told the rep it wouldn’t sell. This seemed to irritate him. He inquired why I said this. I pointed the extremely bulky slide as opposed to the M8/13. He began explain. I interrupted and said, “I know why they did it. To slow down slide velocity. I’m no engineer, but couldn’t they have reduced the size of the gas port or installed a heavier recoil spring? Or both. He gave me curt reply and walked away. The M10 was dropped from the line shortly after. I have to admit I felt vindicated.

  8. avatar Viejo Torro says:

    Mark me unimpressed with the beatification of the Glock 21. To large to make a impact on concealed carry it also made far less of an impact on the police market then most any on other Glock.
    It is cool to see a reference to the Browning BDM..

    1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

      A few agencies adopted them. Alaska State Troopers come to mind. I know a few individual officers that work for “roll your own” agencies that carry 21s. They all tend to be big guys that have catcher mitts for hands.

      1. avatar jwtaylor says:

        Lots of departments out west still use them. Mine does and I know several others in Idaho that do.

        1. avatar Art out West says:

          My local police department uses the 21SF. The SF was a good innovation. The grip on the standard G21 seems a bit large (and I’m 6’4″ ).

          The G21 is really big for ccw, but makes sense for police, home defense, truck gun, farm pistol, etc.

        2. avatar jwtaylor says:

          Art, 21SF for us too.

        3. avatar Hoyden says:

          Savannah GA, and you can switch to a 1911 if you prove mastery on the range.

        4. avatar Red in CO says:

          Yeah, they come up pretty often on the LEO trade in market too. Clearly there’s still a respectable market for .45s among PDs

    2. avatar BeoBear says:

      The G21 was wildly popular with police departments and individual officers when it came out. I was a young LEO at the time and it was difficult to not find a G21 in a holster. I carried a hand me down S&W 59 until I was able to procure my own 21. At the time it was a huge step forward in handguns. It was insanely reliable and very accurate not to mention lightweight for guns of the era. I loved the thing. I no longer have it but it’s been replaced with a Trijicon night sight equipped gen 4 G21 which is still an excellent handgun today. Not in the beauty department but in every way a defensive handgun needs to be. It’s still a very popular choice among LEO’s in the US.

  9. avatar grumpster says:

    Thanks for the look back in time. I bought my Gen 2 Glock 19 just a few years after the Glock 21 came out and still CCW it all the time. Nothing has come since that has tempted me to replace it and mine is still as it left the factory with the internals and poly sights. Only thing I added to it was a Grip Force adapter.

    Lots of other choices these days but if I bought another striker fired poly pistol it would be a Gen 5 Glock or maybe a 43X or 48.

  10. avatar jwm says:

    How much further can we go with handguns short of phasers or some such? And let’s look at this from a practical view. For a citizen of the non cop or soldier type the service revolver in a medium bore would serve for 99% of their actual needs. Everything else is want, not need.

    Understand. I believe you should be able to own any and all weaponry short of NBC stuff.

    But the handguns we have on the market now are going to be it until we get some sci fi stuff on the market.

    1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      A service revolver in a medium bore would serve the actual needs of cops in 99.999+% of situations as well. Us non-LEO civilians would do just fine with a SAA.

      1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

        Gov, I own about 30 +/- handguns. About evenly divided between autos and revolvers. I hardly feel unarmed with any of my DA/DAO revolvers. However, my Colt SAAs would be the last of my handguns I would choose for a gunfight. Don’t get me wrong. They would work; but why?

        1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          Not saying you should, just that the odds of a SAA not getting you out of any trouble you might find yourself in is akin to being struck by a meteorite. They are a little heavy for carry by today’s standards though.

      2. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

        Gov, I understand. Just that by today’s standards the sights are more difficult to acquire, unless you’re really good, double taps are not likely (forget fanning), slow to reload, etc. BTW, sitting on the deck at the farm. Sprinkler going on the vegetable garden and waiting on a friend. We’re going to put a few mild loads through a first generation calvery model he just picked up.

        1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          Well for the record I have owned 3 SAAs, one in .357 magnum and two in .44 magnum, so double taps shouldn’t be necessary. One of the .44s was a 3-3/4″ birdshead Vaquero which I actually carried (concealed) on occasion. (Unfortunately I sold it to help fund a medical vacation, but it’s back on my ‘buy’ list.) The other .44 is a 6-1/2″ Backhawk 50th anniversary which usually rides shotgun on the couch. I guess the hope is that all I’ll have to do is point it at the bad guy and deal with the stench of his soiled britches as he runs off. Backup weapons are readily available if plan A fails. But anyway – a dab of white or bright red fingernail polish on the front sight fixes that problem but there’s no getting around the slow reloads. I would take that Vaquero over a pocket .380 any day though.

          By ‘first generation’ I assume you mean pre-WWII Colt. Sounds like fun, but your mild loads are probably a good idea.

        2. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Gov, I don’t want to overstep my boundaries, but only a Colt can be a SAA. The Ruger single actions are much stronger and can handle any modern loads.The pre WWII? This was a pre Spanish-American War. SAA. The Trapdoor Springfield we were shooting came from the unit that cleaned up the battlefield of the Little Big Horn after General Custer and the 7th Calvary met there demise. Gary Owen! Mark is a discerning collector. Didn’t shoot much. Light loads. History.

        3. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          ‘…only a Colt can be a SAA.’ – Does that apply to 1911s as well?!?

          First generation Colts were made from 1873-1941. (Well, at least according to Wikipedia – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Single_Action_Army#First_generation_(1873%E2%80%931941) )

          Shooting history sounds like a lot of fun. Unfortunately I’m on a Ruger budget.

          Also, I am not a robot!

        4. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Gov, personally I wouldn’t trust Wikpedia for my firearms information. Annyway, this was a black powder frame. It could have easily been carried in the Indian Wars. The Sharps rifle was at the aftermath of the Little Big Horn.

        5. avatar Anymouse says:

          There are other SAA other than Colt, but they are clones of the 1873 Colt design by Cimmaron, US Firearms, Uberti, etc. The Rugers are an entirely different beast, with a smooth faced hammer, without half cock loading, etc. If you want to group them together, call them single action revolvers.

        6. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          Problem with lumping them together as ‘single action revolvers’ is that there are other single action revolvers that have virtually nothing in common with the SAAs like the Schofield. If you want to make a distinction I’d lump them into three groups, antique SAAs, modern SAAs and repllica SAAs. I’d consider the Blackhawks to be modern SAAs and the Vaqueros to be replicas, even though they’re more modern than the current Colt replicas. Same to a slightly lesser extent with the Ubertis. But they’re no more different from each other than the various 1911s are and we don’t insist on calling Kimbers single action semi-auto pistols.

    2. avatar CZ Rider says:

      Really, I think the apparent stagnation in the handgun market just goes to show that we’re pretty much at the pinnacle of handheld firearm technology. One could argue that the locked-breech action developed at the end of the 19th century was the last really transformative thing that happened to handguns – since then, it has basically been a process of fine-tuning and incremental improvement. I suppose something like electically primed or caseless ammunition may drive some innovation if we ever see it, but I think we’ve otherwise gone about as far as the “chemically propelled projectile to poke a hole in the target and make it die” concept underneath it all will take us.

      I do, however, see a ton of room for innovation and real change in the realm of manufacturing and how people actually obtain firearms. The average consumer can already go out tomorrow and buy a 3D printer capable of producing a single-shot pistol without any outside parts. Add in a few commonly available components and you can do things like a semi-auto 9mm carbine without much extra difficulty. Give it another 20 years and I expect we’ll either have desktop laser-sintering printers allowing anyone to print metal parts that are just as good as current manufactured ones or polymers that are strong enough to replace them. I think that’s the next point where things will really get interesting, especially for all the bed-wetting anti-gunners out there.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        A Star Trek style replicator in every home. Simply insert your credit chip and purchase the gun you need before you leave home. You could also put them in convenience stores, subways, etc.

  11. avatar Rad Man says:

    What do you people want? Superlightweight with no recoil. Maximum double stack capacity and power and complete comfortable concealability. Super durable, accurate and reliable, also full featured, beautiful and affordable. Well you can’t have it because it will never exist.

    Appreciate Glocks for what they are, don’t complain about what they’re not.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      beautiful??????….surely you jest!….yes, I own some,.. but I would never define them in that fashion….

    2. avatar Rad Man says:

      I have a couple of guns I’d consider beautiful, they’re not Glocks shockingly.

    3. avatar Southern Cross says:

      Those pesky laws of physics keep getting in the way of sales and marketing.

    4. avatar Texican says:

      Everyone wants a “Noisy Cricket!”

      1. avatar Someone says:

        I could do without the Noisy Cricket’s recoil.

        1. avatar Rad Man says:

          I was going to say the same. Even a full stainless frame likely wouldn’t tame it.

  12. avatar Bruce says:

    Never much interested in the G21. Prefer my 10 mm G20. Same frame, but higher velocity rounds, which makes it a better bear gun. And it shoots .40 S&W just fine. Couple days ago I shot it along side my G17, and was surprised that I shot it better. I carry both, on occasion, but neither is seriously concealed. Just a long vest usually over the guns. If I need better concealing, I carry a firearm more designed for such. Haven’t switched out the sights yet on the G20, but expect to soon.

    The thing about no safety and single action is that you just have to train yourself to never go fast with reholstering (and don’t carry appendix style). I just tell myself every time “the gun is live, be careful”, and it works.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      ….now if we could just convince the FBI…they don’t lend themselves well to antics on the dance floor…

  13. avatar Brian Hannah says:

    Love the Day Glow magazine cover colors. wow!

  14. avatar Hoyden says:

    Why has Glock never built a G19 sized .45ACP?

    The G30 and (weirdly uncomfortable) G36 are out there, but never a Compact.

    1. avatar Rad Man says:

      The 30S is about as close to a 19 as you’re going to get – and it’s pretty close given the size constraints of the 45 cartridge.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        nasty little beast….but comforting in a scenario where one shot may decide things….

    2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      My 36, with the mag-extension baseplates, is my occasional CCW gun. Without the mag extension to lend more grip area, the 36 is annoyingly small in the grip to handle.

      1. avatar Rad Man says:

        I’m at the point in my life where I no longer have an affinity for any pistol I can’t get all three fingers on.

      2. avatar Widdler says:

        My 30 feels the same way, when backpacking stock mags work fine but for range time i use 21 mags with x-grips.

  15. avatar silverwarloc says:

    The G21 Gen 4 is my EDC–concealed. Been using it for over 5 years. No issues. Love it. The only thing I changed is the trigger. Replaced it with a ghost trigger.

    1. avatar Reno1947 says:

      Same here silverwarloc my 21 is edc and has been close to 7 years now.i wear a photographer vest never been a problem

  16. avatar Will Drider says:

    Good article. Seems some people want to stray from the presented issue. The G21 was a game changer that was well received. People can find fault in Glocks based on their personal preferences but these are not out of the box reliability/function issues, it goes bang when you pull the trigger. Follow the users manual instructions and there are no “safety issues”. Because “you” want an external manual safety, it’s not a Glock fault. Want pretty grips, look elsewhere. Non factory mods often void warranties.

    Use something else if you don’t like it. Your “preferences” may be ignored for a Dept issue sidearm. 45ACP is one of my favorite calibers but I don’t own a Glock in that caliber. I do own several Glocks: zero modifications.

  17. avatar James W Crawford says:

    I love to shoot my Glocks at the range just as much as I enjoy shooting my 1911s. However; I am far to cowardly to carry a pistol that will shoot me if I am not careful when reholstering or shoot my children (now trained adults who will hopefully give me grandchildren soon) if they somehow get ahold of it. I still carry my S&W Third Generation S&W pistols in either 9mm, 10mm or .45. Yes, I have one of those S&W 4506s that you disparage as well as a S&W 1006 that once belonged to an FBI agent who had to trade it in for a .45 because he was too limp wristed to handle the recoil. Shoots slower than a Glock 21 but infinately safer to carry. I also have a S&W CS 45 with that manual safety which you disparage. That manual safety literally saved my life when some pencil prick cop tried to shoot me in the groin with my own pistol. He didn’t like the idea of a dad being armed while taking his daughter to school so soon after he and his collegues cowered outside of the Clackamas Town Center while they waited to be certain that the mass shooter was dead. This same cowardly cop literally lost bowell as well as bladder control on my back porch before bravely running away when he came out to my house to harass me over a year later. (That video of Brave, Brave Sir Robin’s encounter with the three headed giant that my attorney intended to show the jury as a dramitazation motivated the judge to dismiss that case with prejudice.)

    The basic physics of firearms limit the benefit of making pistols smaller and lighter. Lethality and stopping power are a function of wound channel volume. Wound channel volume is a function of projectile frontal area multiplied by pentration depth. Pentration depth in soft tissue is a function of momentum not energy per unit of frontal area, so larger caliber, heavier projectiles at near sonic or subsonic velocities are more effective than smaller caliber, lighter projectiles at high supersonic velocities. There is a minimum size and mass for a handgun to shoot a projectile that can be effective for self defense.

    Until such time as the manufacturers offer a more modern SA/DA pistol with a perfectly reliable manual safety that is significantly lighter than my old school S&W, I aint buying them except as a range toy.

    1. avatar possum, destroyer of arachnids says:

      You mean you don’t trust a gunm with no safety? Wow just keep your finger off the trigger. That’s how I roll with my RSBH, fully cocked , it won’t go bang until I pull the trigger. Safe

  18. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    I did not realize the low intellectual and low mechanical aptitude of the average gun owner until two things happened to me. I bought a computer and people started worshiping the most unsafe auto pistol every designed the Glock 17.

    Even today with the majority of people using computers their ignorance is as unmatched as it was during the Bronze Age and as a matter of fact sometimes I think the Bronze Age people would have thought us all a bunch of Morons and to a degree they would have been right.

    The Glock is cocked internally (roughly 67%) and Glock was warned when they first designed the pistol, which was going to have a visible hammer, that no one in their right mind would ever carry the thing with the hammer cocked back and no manual safety so they went back to the drawing board and they knew if they used a striker fired system the average gun owning Neanderthal would not have clue as to how it actually worked nor how dangerous a pistol they were carrying. It was an accident waiting to happen and happen it does because it is just like carrying a revolver with the hammer cocked back which has resulted in more accidental shootings than any other design because there is no manual safety to prevent the gun from going off when you accidentally snag the trigger. All this is completely over the head of the average Glock owner.

    The “feel good” trigger safety is a fking joke that does not work period and this is perhaps the only time in my life I would ever advocate a gun drop any safety device because the fake trigger safety has given false confidence to people because they think it actually works. People who have carried Glocks in their coat pockets or in their waist band have got the surprise of their life when they went bang and they shot their nuts off.

    The other major safety hazard is the totally unsafe take down system. The engineer working for Glock that designed the take down system was obviously flying high on drugs as the take down system is an accident waiting to happen and happen it does over and over again. Since you must have the slide in the forward position and it must be cocked all you have to do is just one time in your life forget to check the chamber for a loaded round and your going to shoot yourself or someone else. I have seen some very horrific pictures of this. If guns came under the consumer safety commission no Glock would have ever been allowed on the market with all of its unsafe design features and certain would not have been allowed on the market without at least a manual safety. The graveyards are full of former low I.Q. Glock owners who did not understand how the gun worked or how dangerous a firearm it is to carry and take down for cleaning. The Glocks design is asininity at its ultimate zenith

    The Glock also will fire out of battery which has lead to Glocks blowing up in peoples faces especially with reloads that did not let the slide close completely before the operator pulled the trigger causing the gun to go nuclear.

    Now we can move on to the mythical Glock reliability.

    This is false as well. Although the Glock works well enough if i is clean and not dirty or cold or over lubed the ignition system in this gun is very weak. Now it does not take a rocket scientist to test this. I began to realize how weak it was when one fellow on the internet commented on a simple and almost laughable test he did which led to a much better test that I conducted. The fellow in question noticed that a pencil placed in the chamber would come out the end of the barrel in a very weak arc after pulling the trigger but fly clear across the room when a hammer fired strong ignition gun like a 1911 underwent the same simple test. I myself then decided to deliberately seat a high primer in an empty case to see if the weak ignition system would fire it off. I tested 3 Glocks 3 times and all failed in the 9 tests. The 1911 passed and so did roughly 10 other hammer fired hand guns when fired with high primed empty cases. So what does this prove? It proves that the Glock operates on the margin of ignition reliability and if you would have a dirty and over lubed Glock and it was perhaps out in sub zero temperatures it could not be relied to to ignite the primer perhaps even using a factory loaded round that even did not have a high primer.

    The sights on Glocks that are the original plastiscky sights are pure junk as many Glock owners found out all too soon as the front sight will snap right off when dropped or wear down with an ill fitting holster especially one without a sight track.

    The trigger pull on Glocks is often heavy and creepy and not conducive to good accurate shooting.

    The pins that hold the Glock internal parts into the frame all do not have a detent to prevent them from walking out of the frame under recoil so its best not to strip the gun down to the bare frame as the pin holes can become enlarged in the soft junk plasticky frame making it almost certain they will not always stay in the junk plasticky frame.

    The Glock being plastic and light in weight will shift its center of balance while being emptied as it becomes lighter and lighter as the magazine empties and its far more noticeable than with a steel or even aluminum framed gun. The lighter weight also is not conducive to good accuracy either as the gun is much harder to hold steady because of its light weight.

    There are a few Glock owners believe it or not that do have some grey matter between their ears and they are the few that immediately get a manual safety installed on the gun before carrying it. The people that have shot themselves and others including many Cops because the gun does not have a manual safety must surely run into the thousands and Glock has been sued in court over this. What is even more obscene is that Glock has had a factory designed manual safety for years but only put it on some guns that were for export because other foreign countries that care about gun accidents banned it from importation unless Glock put a factory manual safety on them. I am told Australia was the first country to demand this. American law makers consider their gun owners expendable to the almighty god of blind greed and profit so they do not demand a manual safety be put on Glocks. I might add many a Glock owner has shot himself trying to holster his gun when the trigger snagged on the holster or when the gun even went off inside the holster because a portion of the holster had folded over against the trigger when holstered and went off later while he was wearing it and attempting to sit down thereby putting pressure on the trigger and setting the gun off inside the holster. Auto mechanics love Glock owners because they are always repairing bullet holes in car floors.

    The lead bullet myth.

    Naturally most firearms companies know that the average gun owner is not the most educated person compared to the bulk of the population so they state that they do not warranty the gun or condone any hand loads be used. For the Average Gun owning Neanderthal its very good advice. I have seen some hand loads that were so far out of spec I had to keep myself from fainting and wondering how the owner did not disappear in a red puff of mist on the first hand load fired off. One Jethro Bodine even told me he started with the maximum load and worked up until his Glock went nuclear. I fainted when he told me that one.

    But the question remains can an experience hand loader us lead bullets or does he need a special barrel and will a special barrel fire lead bullets more accurately. The answer is no to both questions. The myth is that Glock rifling being more shallow will pick up more lead and raise pressures very quickly. This is also false. Glocks actually lead less and any type of rifling will blow a gun up if too much lead accumulates in the rifling. I personally have fired on a hot day over 200 rounds of lead hand loads out of my Glocks with minimal leading but I take no chances with lead bullets fired out of any type of rifling in any handgun or rifle and always clean the lead all out no matter how minimal it is. Of course fully realizing the shiftless, lazy and indolent nature of most Gun Owners following Glocks advice and only firing factory loads is damn good advice and will keep their gun from going nuclear and insure they do not have to have a head transplant when they blow their own heads off but a new and improved head in most cases would improve their lives to a great degree so I guess Glocks are good for something (many a jest is said in truth or is it vice versa).

    My advice to a person who feels he must carry a gun is carry a pistol that has a safe design. Carry a gun that makes you lock back the slide before taking it apart. Carry a pistol with a manual safety or at the very least a gun with a traditional long hard double action pull on the first shot such as the Sig P226, Beretta 92 series or the H&K P30s. The H&K gives you the option of either using the manual safety or not using it or even carrying it in single action mode locked and cocked which I do not recommend but its your option. Any of the above guns are way safer to handle , take down to clean or carry than a Glock and they all have more reliable ignition systems as well. AND DITTO FOR THE TEN MILLION COPY CAT BRANDS ALL AS IDIOTIC AS THE ORIGINAL GLOCK.

    1. avatar possum, destroyer of arachnids says:

      Ah man, Glocks is the thing. No more that outdated hammer half cock safety sht. Back in the day them old-timers were to stupid to keep their fingers off the triggers and needed a safety, humans are much smaller now and know better. Plus all the cops carry a Glock, don’t you want to be like the cops? I know I sure do, and if I was a hot dog, I’d eat myself

      1. avatar RidgeRunner says:

        Genius

    2. avatar RedOwl says:

      That was quite the rant. I am a Glock owner with a Master’s in Mechanical Engineering. I have taken my G21 apart to see how it works. I disagree with your assertion that they are unsafe. The striker cannot move forward and hit the primer unless the trigger is pulled to the rear. Besides the trigger safety and the fact that the striker does not sit all the way forward, there is an hourglass shaped piece of metal that stops the striker from moving into its final firing position. The only way to move it is to press the trigger all the way back. If the weapon is in a holster that completely covers the trigger then it is safe. You could throw it down the stairs and it will not go off.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        vlad is a well known lying troll around here. He’s also never owned or touched a gun. He just runs through the computer to randomly pick up bits of gun info.

        But as you pointed out he gets it wrong quite a bit. Always.

      2. avatar Ardent says:

        The guy you’re replying to makes up his comments as he goes, but it case anyone fell for that garbage:

        Does anyone have a verified report of a Glock firing without the trigger being pulled? I havnt researched it, but I’ve never heard of it happening. Given that, it is a manifestly safe design.

        For the haters (and keep in mind my first carry piece was a revolver, then a 1911, then a Beretta 92, then a Glock 19, so, not a Glock fanboy) negligent discharges are 100% the fault of the operator. If you’re depending on a mechanical safety to prevent your pistol from fireing, you’re absolutely, unequivocally doing it wrong and handling your gun in an unsafe manner. If you’re depending on not having to pull the trigger in order to disassemble your pistol rather than ensuring the gun isn’t loaded first you’re operating the pistol in a foolishly unsafe manner that borders on criminal negligence.
        Newbs are afraid to carry with a loaded chamber.
        Inexperienced people are afraid to carry without a manual safety.
        Experienced people put the thing in their holster knowing that so long as they don’t pull the trigger, all is well, and if you do pull the trigger when you aren’t meaning to, you need more training/experience, because you’re doing it wrong.

        There’s nothing inherently wrong with a manual safety, and in some applications it isn’t such a good idea not roll without one (brush guns, and patrol type rifles come to mind) but a concealed carry piece doesn’t really need a safety, it’s meant to be either in it’s holster with trigger guard covered, or in your hand, finger off the trigger…unless you mean for it to be shooting.
        If you prefer a manual safety, no problem, but don’t pretend everything without one is a death trap to its user, because reality doesn’t bear that out.
        Perhaps the most obvious example of this is the double action revolver. There have been more DA revolvers made than any other type of handgun, virtually none have a safety, and negligent discharges with these have never been a problem. In the 120 plus years they’ve been in common use NDs have been so minimal a problem that revolvers with safeties never caught on. Is the DA revolvers trigger pull generally longer and heavier than a striker fired auto? Sure thing, but if you pull that trigger, with your finger, shirt tail in holster, hoodie drawstring toggle or anything else it will fire, yet somehow no one ever saw the DA revolvers as inherently unsafe.
        The bottom line is that gun safety is only a gun design/production issue up to the point that the gun will only fire when the trigger is pulled. Once that standard is met, gun safety is up to the user, not the gun.

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          “Does anyone have a verified report of a Glock firing without the trigger being pulled? I havnt researched it, but I’ve never heard of it happening. Given that, it is a manifestly safe design.”

          With that statement you have lost all credibility. From time to time I have googled this in the past and seen even the horrific leg wounds when glocks went off in their hostlers when people sat down in their cars and in restaurants. There was a woman on one of the gun shows on cable TV that was a fast draw competitor and was crippled for life when she attempted to re-holster her gun. The .40 cal Glock took out most of her leg.

          There have been numerous reports on MSNBC news and here are two of them. A mother was shopping and her 2 year old reached into her purse and grabbed her glock and the gun went off blowing her head off.

          Example 2 from MSNBC news. A loud mouth female mother and concealed carry advocate was driving her pick up truck when her 2 year old in a car seat reached into her holster and pulled out her .45 acp glock and shot her in the back while she was driving.

          Believe me I could also tell you about numerous Cops that have accidentally shot innocent people in normal mundane traffic stops. One even appeared in Guns Magazine about two years ago.

          If I wanted to I could fill a page about kids that got shot and killed with glocks as well.

        2. avatar Gunny B says:

          There is absolutely ZERO about what you cite here that proves that’s Glocks are unsafe. To the contrary, you continue to show that they work as designed when THE TRIGGER IS PRESSED. All you have shown are a bunch of situations where a person either misused or allowed some else to misuse the weapon.

          Come on!!!!! Get a grip.

        3. avatar jwm says:

          vlad you ignorant slut. None of your examples prove anything except that these ‘victims’ mishandled their firearms or they would not have gone off.

          Citations for just one case where the gun ‘just went off’.

        4. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          @Vlad Tepes

          If the trigger is pulled, the weapon correctly functions as it should, regardless if a 2 year old, or old man with crappy leather holster, or someone not paying attention.

          What you have described so far are training issues. That and common sense.

      3. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        ” I disagree with your assertion that they are unsafe.”

        Lets review one of the most important statements I made i.e. “Would anyone in the right mind carry a revolver around with the hammer cocked back” because if you answer “no only a Moron would” then that would go double if you carried a Glock without a manual safety installed because the results are 100 per cent the same i.e. when you accidentally snag the trigger both weapons fire off. As I stated before the trigger safety is a fking joke because it does not work period ever and I have seen plenty of horrific pictures of accidentally glock shootings because of it as well as actual horrific stories on the evening news of innocent people even being killed and or injured.

        1. avatar Gunny B says:

          Your comments here are pretty clearly your emotions getting the best of you and thinking that you know what you are talking about.

          A Glock, any properly functioning Glock, when properly and safely handled, carried, and stored is PERFECTLY safe. If u put a stick or a pen into the trigger guard of a revolver, ANY revolver, and pressed it back, through whatever mechanism you choose to dream up, IT will fire as designed too.

          You just have to be smarter than your weapon, whatever it is. Clearly you would lose that competition.

        2. avatar Not of this earth says:

          “…reports on MSNBC….” and “Example 2 from MSNBC….”

          Now, do you really want to tell anyone else he/she has “lost all credibility”? That’s funny, that is.

      4. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        ” If the weapon is in a holster that completely covers the trigger then it is safe. You could throw it down the stairs and it will not go off.”

        Your 100 per cent wrong and here is why. Many times Glock owners have re-holstered their guns and a flap of leather on the holster folded over catching the trigger. Again the ridiculous trigger safety does not work period. Sometimes the gun goes off when the gun is being holstered and sometimes the flap of leather pushes the trigger back but not all the way until the owner sits down in his car and the moves his body pushing against either the gun or the holster which then pushes the trigger all the way back and the gun goes off in the holster.

        Also putting a glock in a coat pocket without a holster will often result in the coat catching inside the trigger guard on the way into the coat pocket or even when the guy is walking around with it in his pocket. There was a news video showing an off duty cop in an elevator with his wife and his glock went off and he shot himself. Its only one of many instances I have read about or saw on the news.

        And here is one probably many of you know about if you are sports fans (I am not) but it involved a famous black athlete Plaxico Burress dining out in New York and illegally carrying his concealed glock stuffed in his waist band without a holster. He sat down and moved around in the seat and his glock went off in his waist band and he shot himself and yes he was charged for carrying a gun without a permit.

        Here is other incident that happened on an airplane. A security guard called an air marshal sat down in his seat on the plane and his glock was not in a holster but tucked in his waist band and the gun went off shooting him in the nuts. This story was just one of many, many carried in Gun Week newspaper now called “The Gun Mag” in regards to accidental Glock discharges.

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          And I forgot to mention the Police Chief that was on the news showing us he had only part of this thumb left. He had his Glock laying on his desk and reached across his desk and pulled the pistol towards him muzzle first (brilliant) and some of his paperwork entered the trigger guard and pushed the trigger back and fired off the gun. With a manual safety or even just a grip safety this never would have happened.

        2. avatar Gunny B says:

          Really? REALLY???? “Paperwork” pulled the trigger… that’s so lame as to be comical. Being chief doesn’t make u un-stoopid!! Just lucky, when his finger pressed the trigger, that it wasn’t STILL pointing at him.

          And you believed all that bullshit… tsk, tsk!!

        3. avatar strych9 says:

          So… what you’re saying is that the device may, under some circumstances, be unsafe in the hands a fucking moron.

          Since this applies to everything a human being can interact with, I’d say it’s the moron that’s the problem rather than the object.

    3. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

      My son bought a g19 and it’s a pretty good gun to shoot. I can’t deny anything you are saying. You are spot on.

    4. avatar Broke_It says:

      It must be so frustrating for a bona fide genius as yourself to be living amongst all us outhouse using mouth breathers. Is that the source for your anger?

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        “It must be so frustrating for a bona fide genius as yourself to be living amongst all us outhouse using mouth breathers. Is that the source for your anger?”

        How in the world did you guess????

    5. avatar strych9 says:

      “…Glock was warned when they first designed the pistol, which was going to have a visible hammer, that no one in their right mind would ever carry the thing with the hammer cocked back and no manual safety…”

      No one except John Moses Browning. Clearly that guy was a dumbass fucktard and crazy too.

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        “No one except John Moses Browning. Clearly that guy was a dumbass fucktard and crazy too.”

        Browning had a grip safety on his 1911 gun and the Glock does not. Never the less the U.S. Military asked Browning if he had lost his mind. Did he really think those dumb ass recruits would not end up shooting themselves. Browning responded he did it because it was supposed to be used on horse back and the recruits could carry it with the hammer down and cock it by raking the hammer against the saddle. The U.S. Military then told Browning to put a fking manual safety on the gun or leave and do not come back. He put the manual safety on and fast forward to the present the U.S. Military before they adopted that plastic piece of shit they use now told Sig, to put a damn manual safety on this thing if you want to sell it to us. So History repeats itself once again.

        And yes Browning was noted for making more than one dumb ass mistake. Look up the history of the BAR rifle some time if you think Browning was always right and made perfect weapons all the time or perhaps his original design for the High Power (that was never made) now that was a real dumb ass gem of a mistake but that is another very long story that not many Browning High Power lovers even know about. What they think is a Browning High Power is no such thing and never was its a Dieudonné Saive High Power 100 per cent except for the staggered magazine and if you want to scream about barrel lock up I will give that to Browning too but not by much.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          I didn’t say that JMB was “always right”. I had a slightly round-about way to tell you that you’re wrong and that you’re no where near up to the level of JMB on this topic.

          All guns have something in common: If you treat them improperly bad things can, and often will, happen. The same thing is true of cars, chainsaws and just about any other tool. As is sometimes said “It’s the Indian, not the arrow”.

          Back in the day all the old timers would, when teaching gun safety, tell you not to rely on a manual safety but rather to treat the gun properly at all times because a manual safety is a mechanical devices and all mechanical devices fail from time to time. If you’re stupid enough the manual safety will not save you.

          These days loads of people think the exact opposite. That the manual safety is some kind of magic talisman that prevents the gun from going off unless you want it to. It’s a license to fuck around.

          Glocks do what they’re designed to do and do it well. They’re not what I’d consider a “beginners gun”, since the person needs to have trigger discipline ingrained in them but they’re also not designed to be a beginners gun. If you’re too stupid to keep your finger off the trigger and keep the trigger guard clear of objects you’re eventually going to have a bad day no matter what gun you choose. If you can’t keep yourself from dicking with the trigger, or keep things out of the guard then the only thing that’s going to determine how bad that day is is how stupid you are in terms of following proper gun handling procedures.

          However, again, if you’re dumb enough nothing’s going to save you. Loads of morons have shot themselves, someone else or something they didn’t want to shoot because “the safety was on” and/or “the gun wasn’t loaded” when it wasn’t so they felt like they could play with the trigger. No one with two firing neurons blames anyone other than the moron in these instances. I’ve personally witnessed this kind of fuckery at least a dozen times at gun ranges.

          You don’t like Glocks or glocks. Fine, don’t buy one. Your personal preferences are not a license to spew a bunch of bullshit. That’s covered under the 1A and everyone else similarly has a 1A right that they might use to call you out for being a bullshitter.

        2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          You don’t like Glocks or glocks. Fine, don’t buy one. Your personal preferences are not a license to spew a bunch of bullshit. That’s covered under the 1A and everyone else similarly has a 1A right that they might use to call you out for being a bullshitter.

          Strychnine your about as ignorant a person as they come. I have already given you enough real life facts and horrific examples to convince any sane person we have a problem here with Glocks and their copy cat ilk. According to your fantasies Murphy’s law does not exist especially when it pertains to you. Yeah, famous last words. There is a reason we have air bags, and seat belts and back up safeties on lawnmowers its because they save lives. Your one of these deranged people that would do away with all mandatory safety devices because you claim it takes away your freedom to commit suicide . Well that’s fine the world would indeed be better off without people like you who try to impede and destroy progress every chance you get but when you put other peoples lives in danger thats’ where normal people draw the line against people like you. Its such a shame we no longer have State run mental institutions as you would be their prime caged exhibit. Normal people think logically and know that an accident can and will happen especially with unsafe equipment. I know this is all way over your head even with the avalanche of Historical evidence that was handed you on a platter but when did ever talking to a rock convince the rock of anything.

    6. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

      Vlad, no offense, but are you stupid or something. Been through several Glock armor schools. Taught hundreds with the weapons system. Never saw a unintentintional discharge with a Glock. If you can’t safely handle one you shouldn’t be driving a car. It’s a lot more complicated than shooting a Glock.

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        “Vlad, no offense, but are you stupid or something. Been through several Glock armor schools.”

        To the Flag.

        Its obvious then you did not learn much at the glock school or how they work and how unsafely designed equipment should never have been allowed on the market. This is not rocket science Flag in regards to how they work or the defects in their design that make accidents with them far higher than any other designed pistol. Even a low I.Q. person would understand this. I am not going to go tantrum and start screaming names at you as its obvious what level of intelligence you operate at. With all the historical evidence you were given and all the horrific tragedies given about this type of pistol there is only so much I can do for you.

        Albert Einstein once said “Mans intelligence is limited but Mans stupidity is infinite”. Now you know why Consumer Safety Councils were invented so they could do the thinking for people like you who cannot think.

        1. avatar Jon in CO says:

          Bro, your troll level is Master. I’ll send you the award, you can be proud of it, and stop spewing your ridiculous nonsense.

          If you cannot keep your finger off of the trigger, don’t buy a Glock. In fact, don’t buy anything, because you’ll be the next Tex Grebner meme for the world to laugh at.

          By the way, Tex shot him self in the leg, with a 1911. I’m not 100% sure, but I think those might have safeties on them…

    7. avatar Larry says:

      So my G17 that has not been cleaned in over 1000 rounds of Wolf 9mm, with at least 400 of those in very cold weather, should not be working??

      Hmmm.

      When I take apart my AR to clean it, how do I do that with the bolt locked open? The military must have some Top Secret way?

      I do agree that stupid people will have a slighty greater chance of a ND with a Glock. Then again stupid people probably won’t engage the saftey either on a gun that has one, and should not touch
      any gun.

  19. avatar possum, destroyer of arachnids says:

    The old Glock are different then the new Glock, model numbers withstanding. The old ones could pass through metal detectors( Har Har)

  20. avatar crndl says:

    I like the G21 because Johnny Rowland converted it to .460 Rowland.

  21. avatar former water walker says:

    Well I have a couple glock clones. Cheap reliable firepower is a GOOD thing…firearms are merely a tool to me.

    1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      IMO, Hi Point owns that market at a much lower price point than Glock.

  22. avatar Christopher Erickson says:

    “The myth is that Glock rifling…”

    Glocks do not use rifling. They use polygonally bored barrels. There are no lands and grooves. Imagine a barrel with a hexagonal or octagonal hole, then twist it.

    Polygonal barrels are known to provide excellent gas seals which yield slightly higher mizzle velocities. I have heard that they can be more accurate, but have never seen where accuracy has been tested in any meaningful way.

    1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      “Glocks do not use rifling. They use polygonally bored barrels. There are no lands and grooves. Imagine a barrel with a hexagonal or octagonal hole, then twist it.”

      I suggest you look up the definition of “rifling” some time. The description is that they are spiral grooves that spin the bullet and that is exactly what a glock has even if it is polygonal. If you disbelieve me try looking up the bore some time and tell me the gun does not have spiral grooves, and yes they are shallow but so what? Come on lets not get asinine here.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        vlad telling someone not to get asinine? Man, that’s rich.

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          I think vlad is a rebrand troll whose name I have forgotten.

        2. avatar jwm says:

          patrioticAmerican followed by a whole lot of other words.

        3. avatar jwtaylor says:

          TD, yeah he retreads every once in awhile after he gets caught in one of his big lies. He can’t seem to remember what decade he was born in. He’s said he is every age from 50 to 90, sometimes even within the same post.
          Same guy that said the .380ACP had too much recoil. The guy has some serious mental illness. JWM is right, he copies and pastes the same stuff over and over again under different names. Just wait till he gets on one of his anti-capitalist/anti-republic rants. Pure socialist.

  23. avatar SoCalJack says:

    It took me over 30 years to finally buy my first Glock. On a glock 19, I was able to improve functionality and fit by doing, myself, a grip reduction, removing the finger grooves, scalloped mag release and a double trigger undercut. Customizing, is a fun part of owning one. Just like cars, you can customize/personalize them for aesthetics (…eye of the beholder), performance, reliability, durability, and even ergonomics.

  24. avatar Steve H says:

    Wasn’t the Browning designed FN 1899 striker fired, why is striker fired considered modern?

    1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      The Luger is/was striker-fired.

      Striker-fired pistols are nothing new.

    2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      Yes, the 1899/1900 were striker-fired.

      I think it’s a close-run race between the 1899 and the Luger as far as which was “first” – Georg Luger was re-designing the Borschart C-93 in 1898, and I believe JMB designed the 1899 in 1899. I can’t be sure which we should call “first.”

  25. avatar strych9 says:

    “The arrival of GLOCK in the 80s and early 90s completely changed the designs and mindset of the handgun industry.”

    Which also gave old people something else to complain about. This led to crotchety old folks learning to type so as to express their displeasure with “kids these days” and “new fangled bullet slingers” which in turn forever changed the keyboard market in favor of durability and changed the internet comment sections on gun websites to filter out loads of bad language.

    These are ripple effects in the computer industry that we still see today. Not only is Glock the reason for all the striker fired pistols out there, it’s the reason your input devices can take the beating that they can and are somewhat moisture resistant, to survive the hard typing and spittle from angry old dudes who can’t find people to physically listen to them scream about the wonders of their 1911 or some old Combat Magnum and how relevant it still is today.

    1. avatar Jon in CO says:

      I really need a thumbs up button for this comment. A couple of them.

  26. avatar MLee says:

    Never could find myself getting on the ground and praying to the all mighty GLOCK god.
    GLOCKS just never did it for me.

  27. avatar Mikial says:

    A very accurate article. To be honest, I don’t even bother reading all the Glock hater comments, I just know the reality of the article when I see it. Glock created a revolution with its revolutionary pistol. I’ve owned so many pistols of all types over the years . . . 1911’s (my wife and I still have one each), Ruger P89 and American Pistol, Walther, Jericho, XD, Taurus, Kel Tec and on and on. And I still own many of them of all types. But the Glock, and specifically my two G21s, are the epitome of a combat pistol. Simple, reliable, accurate, and utterly dependable. I carried High Powers, Kimber 1911s and G17s on my various private security contracts in my 2 1/2 years in Iraq, and the Glock was the one I felt the most comfortable with. The Glock made a rudimentary change in modern pistols and nothing will ever take that away no matter how many copy cats are marketed.

  28. avatar Ranger Rick says:

    I remember back in the day after Dessert Storm I went by a gun store up in Phoenix to test drive a G21 because 10mm was the future and had one of the first Glock in the U.S. The G21 didn’t make it past the first magazine before the extractor broke. I gave up on the G21, besides the grip was just not right.

  29. avatar Neil says:

    Once upon a time Glock was incredibly innovative. Then the market asked for more innovation and they were late. LCP in 2009, Shield in 2013, Glock finally replied in 2015. In 2018 the P365 brought capacity that still hasn’t been replied to.

    The market is now 40% female and I’ve yet to see a response to the 380 EZ Shield. I was shocked to see 380 ACP is now cheaper than 9mm at my local ammo shop; I fell asleep at it’s popularity jump. The market shifted smaller and lighter and Glock let good competition establish itself.

    1. avatar Gunny B says:

      Is ANYONE still going with a .380 for defensive purposes? The reason people weren’t (seriously) carrying nine’s even till the recent explosion of very adequate defensive 9mm loads, was that they just piss off ur adversary. U can only hope u’ve gotten into a gunfight with someone so old that maybe their ammo doesn’t fire. You’ll likely argue all kind of points about a story u heard about a .380 one-shot-stop n all but it is so ballistically inferior it shouldn’t be carried except at the range. You have to go with hard data and scientific evidence, not anecdotal evidence of…ok, ok. I’ve made my point.

      The other point u made is small guns rule with women, etc. Fact is, smaller guns with smaller controls and heavier springs (because they are so short) are more difficult to manipulate and can actually have more felt recoil because of a shorter recoil spring.

      Just too many negatives to be a realistic carry gun.

      1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        There are plenty of people packing .380’s for CCW pistols. Ruger, S&W and Glock wouldn’t all have introduced .380’s recently unless there were a market for them.

        There have been folks packing .380’s for over 100 years, I would add. My grandfather packed a 1908 Colt Hammerless before WWII. I’ve shot his 1908 in the past. I was a very nice pistol, accurate and easy to lay rounds on target at 25 yards.

        1. avatar Gunny B says:

          A bit of sarcasm there… I know people carry them. I know SOME people can handle them well. My comment is only that the round itself is inadequate in most self-defense situations to be seriously considered and that the guns are so small as to be difficult to manipulate, frequently.

  30. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    Just a historical side note.

    I bought one of the first M21 .45 Glocks and had to send it back twice because it jammed like hell. Finally I sent it back to the wholesaler and was lucky enough to get my money back. So what was wrong with it, well wait till you hear this. I had tested and played around with it till I went nuts so was very curious as to what was the problem. When I got it back from Glock the second time and it did not work I called them up personally and had a long talk with the repair dept. It was actually my second call to them. By now they practically knew me as a regular ha, ha. Well they finally admitted to me they knew what the problem was from the very beginning. In their blind greed they were shipping these turkey’s with the wrong magazines. Yes you are reading this right, they did it on purpose, they were .40 cal magazines not specific .45 acp magazines and they did not know when they would get the correct magazines shipped in from Austria. Not wanting to wait maybe a year that is when I sent mine back to the wholesaler. I never regretted it because the gun was so bulky in the slide it was not near as concealable as my Glock 19 and 17. I personally will be only to happy if I never see another .45 acp Glock. I will be honest and admit that if I ever wanted a 10 mm pistol to hunt or play with I would probably get a Glock because that massive slide would really be able to take the pounding of the 10 mm. But since I seldom hunt anymore I really do not need this big bore Glock blaster.

    1. avatar jwm says:

      Cool story, bro. Sure you own a gun of any kind. 😉

    2. avatar strych9 says:

      Spend a lot of your childhood pounding on square pegs in round holes?

      You didn’t figure this out when you couldn’t fit more than one round into the mag?

      Or are you expecting that we believe that you managed to fit factory loads of .45ACP with an OAL of 32.25-32.40mm into a magazine with an internal length-wise opening that measures 30.35mm and is meant to accept a cartridge with OAL of 28.65-28.90mm?

      Either this is bullshit, you suck at reloading (which I doubt because if you knew fuck all about reloading you’d know enough that this story can’t be true or you’d have no fingers to type this shit with) or you are too fucking dumb to realize that when you can’t fit more than one round into the mag you’ve inserted the wrong size cartridge.

      Sorry, 32>30 always.

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        “Or are you expecting that we believe that you managed to fit factory loads of .45ACP with an OAL of 32.25-32.40mm into a magazine with an internal length-wise opening that measures 30.35mm and is meant to accept a cartridge with OAL of 28.65-28.90mm?”

        You had better go back to school and learn how to read a mic genius before you start flaming someone.

        I measured the length of an empty .40 S&W case compared to an Empty .45 acp case and the difference was only four 100ths of an inch (.043 to be specific). Now try and bullshit me that a .45 acp would not fit into a 40 S&W Magazine. There is slop in all magazines as the loaded rounds do not jam their noses up against the front of the inside of the magazine sometimes a lot of slop or shall we say room or excess length.

        And lets not rule out the fact that Glock could have modified these magazines so they would work in the .45 acp version or so they thought.

        Again this was the exact conversation that Glock related to me as to why my gun was not working properly.

      2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        to Strych9

        Ok Genuis now pay attention your going to learn something about handloading and magazine fit today. In order to make the German Luger function more reliably you can deliberately load the ammo “beyond” maxim over all length. The front of the round will actually be pushing against the front of the magazine forcing the rear end of the cartridge down in the magazine resulting in you getting one less round in the magazine. As long as you do not go too far with this the breach bolt will still catch enough of the rim to push the cartridge out of the magazine. . Sometimes modification of feed lips will also be necessary which again will affect the fit of the cartridges into the magazine.

        I only mentioned this despite the difference in calibers (9mm and .45) because Glock could have indeed altered the .40 magazines to work in their then new ,45 acp gun or again so they thought.

    3. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

      Vlad, that is the stupidest story I ever heard. I shot a 21 before they were ever released into the distribution pipeline. Several after that. As well as many other models. You’re saying a #22 mag was sold with a #21? That’s laughable. A .45 ACP wouldn’t even begin to feed into a .40 S&W Mag.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        I tried this with a few mags and measured everything down to 1/100th of a millimeter.

        It’s possible to get one round of .45 into a Glock .40S&W mag. After that the first round is too long be pushed down into the magazine.

        If you were to assume that some idiot handed Vlad here some handloads that were incorrectly made, Vlad’s still a moron for failing to notice that .45 is going to fit about 16% less ammo into each mag and since we can’t have partial bullets he’s going to lose two rounds for every 10 the mag accepts. Which means that even if his story is true, which I highly doubt, he’s still a complete moron because he should have noticed that he was losing 20% mag capacity and started asking rational questions rather than calling customer service TWICE.

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          “Which means that even if his story is true, which I highly doubt, he’s still a complete moron because he should have noticed that he was losing 20% mag capacity and started asking rational questions rather than calling customer service TWICE.”

          I did indeed notice that the magazine would not fill completely out and I used my own handloads that worked flawlessly for decades in other .45 acp pistols, the loads were with 225 grain Lyman hard cast round nose bullets as well as 185 grain factory jacketed hollowpoints of which now many years later I have forgotten which brand I used. Winchester Silver tips in the 185 grain weight were also tested. Neither the factory loads nor my hand loads would cycle without jamming the gun up. This did not happen on every shot usually about 2 rounds out of every full magazine jammed. I am relating to you the exact conversation I received when talking to Glock. And I do not know what ammo you are using but the ammo I used did indeed go into the magazine and without a struggle or problem in any way. At the time I did not have “a specific” Glock .45 magazine to compare to the two magazines that I had which came with the gun. I had two magazine and both did not work. I took Glock for their word that they were .40 cal magazines when they told me I did not have specific .45 acp magazines.

        2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          ‘Vlad’ busted _cold_ in a lie.

          It’s to be expected, I suppose.

          Nice work, Strych!

          *snicker* 😉

        3. avatar Jon in CO says:

          Do we not look at stuff before we mess with it out of the box? I mean a 15rd G22 mag and a 13rd G21 mag are OBVIOUSLY different in size. They also have differing amounts of witness holes. The openings at the top might, MIGHT be differently sized too.

          Above I told Vlad that he has won Master level troll status, and his award is in the mail.

  31. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    Vlad, let’s just settle this. You hate Glocks. You site incidents without particulars. Not my favorite pistol either, but it is a valid defensive platform I rely on time to time. As I I said before, if you can’t run a Glock, stay off the highway with a motor vehicle.

  32. avatar Mike says:

    The FiveseveN pistol is very innovative. The new quad stack Keltec is different. Both are pushing handgun design forward.

  33. avatar AlanInFL says:

    Hell, my first 45 was a Glock 21 and I still have it.

  34. avatar Josh says:

    Am I the only one who noticed that Luis wrote a whole article about the G21 being so revolutionary because it was the “first” double stack 13 round .45, and as evidence includes a magazine cover of the single stack Ruger P90, ALSO mentioning the FOURTEEN round double stack Para .45?

    1. avatar Someone says:

      But Para is not plasticky enough.

  35. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    Two more glaring defects that bust wide open the Glock reliability myth.

    Unless Glock has plunged the bottom of the grip recently there is a gaping hole only slightly more narrow that the Grand Canyon in the bottom of the grip which lets in dust and debris especially when used in such places like the Middle East. Once these contaminants have entered the Glock they can find their way to the bottom of the slide that has an open track that the striker rides back and forth in. This is the 2nd glaring defect in the Glock design. The striker track is open on the bottom letting in contaminants, dust and even too much lube which can slow down or even seize up the striker. In winter too much lube that has accumulated in the striker track can freeze up immobilizing the striker.

    1. avatar Jon in CO says:

      There’s a weird thing in the firearms market called gun cleaner. Ya know, you can occasionally disassemble a firearm and take a toothbrush to it with some cleaner.

      Jesus Christ, going through all of the comments you’ve left, it gradually gets dumber and dumber the further I go.

      We are now to the point where you cannot load a magazine properly, can’t inspect a magazine, can’t keep your goddamn finger off of the trigger, and now, can’t clean and maintain a firearm properly. Good God I hope someone blacklists you from NICS so you don’t kill anyone with your stupidity.

    2. avatar Jerry says:

      Vlad stupid stupid vlad that hole at the base of the grip is there for a reason now you figure out why moron troll ive owned my g21 for 6 years fired over 4000 rounds thru it flawlessly glock perfection right out of the box now get out your water pistol and shoot yourself in face

  36. avatar Joseph says:

    Some folks talk about Glock not innovating. It’s a gun, not a computer program. It doesn’t need a fucking upgrade every six months.

  37. avatar BusyBeef says:

    The cops here use them and hate them – way too big. They all compete with 17s.

    1. avatar Reno says:

      That probably explains the poor shooting cops are known for.you train with what you carry

  38. avatar Mark H says:

    The problem of course, is the G20/G21 is freaking huge. I had one for about 2 weeks. With a 3.5 disconnector the trigger was of reasonable weight, but still mushy and squishy. Surprisingly accurate with the squishy trigger, but it was really hard to grip the thing because it was so large around.

    Plus the fact that it naturally pointed about 2 foot high meant you had to roll your wrists forward like shooting an old SAA. Sold it for what I had into it and bought another 1911.

  39. avatar Jerry says:

    I have a 3.5 lb ghost connector on my 21 never experienced any kind of problems with accuracy

  40. avatar Reno1947 says:

    Train with what you carry

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