We recently noted the thinly-veiled threat that New York State comptroller Thomas J. DiNapoli made when he sent a friendly letter to most of the nation’s largest financial institutions. In it, he hinted — wink, wink — that it could be bad for their business if they continue to facilitate transactions that involve firearms and related products.

DiNapoli suggested that these companies should consider whether gun transactions should be classified with restricted high-risk purchases like pornography, illicit drugs, and crypto-currencies.  “If gun violence continues unabated in society,” he wrote, “public outcry … may grow and create significant financial risk for the company.”

DiNapoli happens to control over $200 billion in New York state pension funds. And gosh, it’d be a real shame to lose some of that juicy business just because a bank happens to also process credit card transactions for, say, Brownells, Midway USA or your local gun store.

courtesy politico.com

The clear implication of DiNapoi’s letter wasn’t lost on its recipients at Visa, MasterCard, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, American Express, Discover Financial Services, and others.

We weren’t the only ones who were gobsmacked by the Empire State’s brazen strong-arm tactics. Nebraska-based Hornady Manufacturing, makers of premium ammunition like Critical Defense, Critical Duty and Superformance Match, among others, has decided that after that disgusting display, they won’t be doing any business with the state’s law enforcement agencies.

They issued the following press release earlier this week.

Today, the State of New York did one of the most despicable acts ever perpetrated by any state by asking New York banks, financial institutions and insurance companies to stop doing business with the gun and ammo industry.

While it may not make a difference to New York, Hornady will not knowingly allow our ammunition to be sold to the State of NY or any NY agencies. Their actions are a blatant and disgusting abuse of office and we won’t be associated with a government that acts like that. They should be ashamed.

-Steve Hornady, president of Hornady Manufacturing Company

What would happen if more ammo manufacturers, accessory makers and even gun companies decided that they choose not to aid and abet this kind of intimidation by one of their large government customers?

118 COMMENTS

  1. Lord knows I spend a pretty penny on Hornady products as it is. And yet, damned if I wont’ find a way to spend a little more.
    To Brownells, and beyond!

    • Damn right.
      Like I needed another reason to prefer Hornady… They consistently the nod from me when recommending loads to customers and now I’ll continue to do so with a somewhat bigger smile.
      Hornady has good people there, true PotG, not just folks who see it as “just a job” they genuinely love what they do.
      They need some pizza.
      🤠

      • I’ll be in Grand Island in June. I wuldn’t mind taking part in doing something like getting them pizza.

        The fact is though, that if such an idea came together, I’d never know it because the comment system is so poor.

        • As a recent transplant to Grand Island, I would urge you to reconsider your generous offer of a pizza party, as Hornady probably has 250+ employees, and two locations locally.

    • I wonder in the US Attorney General’s office should send the NY Comptroller a friendly letter explaining that interfering with interstate banking might be regarded as a form of racketeering.

    • Same. I buy quite a lot of Hornady. Reloading gear, bullets, factory loads. Makes me smile to see this and feel good about where my money was/is going.

    • I just picked up 160 rounds of Hornady in .260 Rem, although in .260 Hornady is actually the cheap stuff.

  2. I’m hoping there will be a “Springfield Armory Effect” for any ammo mfgr that tries to fill that void.

  3. Wish more companies did this…refuse to outfit state and local cops in states that are anti-gun…
    meh…never going to happen…

    • ^THIS
      Hightime the entire industry grew a pair and started fighting back with these exact tactics.
      I can understand the financial burden to move your manufacturing business out of a state, but the least any given firearm industry business should do is stop the flow of their products to the state and local agencies that are pulling out the stops to bury the 2A industry and citizens.

      Some companies (Glock) will never have the fortitude to do this.

      • Well, it’s up to us; again. So, suppose you are a regular customer of Brownalls or Glock, for example. Send an e-mail to them telling them that you would like them to consider their policies about selling to police agencies in Won’t-Issue-States. You would like to patronize venders who support the 2A.

        Gradually, Brownalls would get the idea that they make more by selling to retail customers then they make by selling at volume discounts to police agencies. You might just take your business to Midway. Likewise, Glock wouldn’t like to lose business to Sig. LEOs in these States would still buy their carry ammo from their local gun-shops; but the agency supplied practice ammo would have to be ordered from others.

        Individual LEOs would start to get the message: Decide which side they want to align with. The State won’t care. There will always be enough tax money to pay a higher price or buy a product that is available to them notwithstanding that the police didn’t prefer it.

        The vendors would start to get the message and begin to compete on the basis of how many States they declined to sell to and how vigorously they enforce their policies on distributors who buy from – say Glock – and then sell to NY.

        Vendors might also make distinctions between States vs. individual agencies. E.g., upstate NY sheriffs and police chiefs might decide to announce their heartfelt support for the 2A in order to gain an exception to the Won’t-Sell policies of a vendor. Now, then, it’s important for each vendor to publish the States it won’t sell to along with the agencies within that State that it will sell to. Otherwise, its distributors and factory-authorized retail dealers won’t know to whom they are expected to refrain from selling to. Nor will their retail patrons know whether the exceptions they make are well founded. (E.g., we would need to know if a vendor made an exception for the NYPD.)

    • It always amuses me when I see the tag pasted on Sprinfield Armory pistol cases (yeah, I know. Springfield – bear with me) that reads “Not for sale in California”.
      Then there was Beretta leaving Maryland… good move. Magpul leaving Colorado. There’s also Barrett, Ruger and a few others (I think) who have largely written off California because they just aren’t welcome there.
      So some companies DO vote with their feet and yank their tax dollars from states that discriminate against us.

      • What would really be great is if a couple of those big banks picked up stakes and moved out to Sioux Falls, SD. I can’t imagine they like being told who they can and can’t do business with and these days there’s really no need for a large footprint in NYC.

        • If Buffett can run his billionaire empire from Omaha, Nebraska, of all places, then large banks should be able to operate from just about anywhere they want, too.

        • I’ve worked at a number of NYC banks and brokers. It’s remarkable how much of their operations are distributed to sites in the hinterland. Whenever the particular work to be performed could be performed anywhere, the forces in play call for getting that work done in a low-cost-of-living location.

          It’s only when the work-force needed is concentrated in NYC that the work stays in NYC.

          I’m not much concerned with the Anti’s embargoing big banks. They will find ways to get-around these embargo. I suspect that the big banks will be more influenced by being embargoed by individual consumers. It’s the individual consumer who buys the high-profit-margin products/services and who can’t be easily re-directed. E.g., am I going to move my deposit from Wells-Fargo to CitiBank? How would that happen? Is Citibank going to open a subsidiary bank named “Rifleman Bank”? Pretty hard to keep it’s ownership of that subsidiary a secret from the Anti’s.

        • Move them to Des Moines- we already have a base for this. Taxes cheaper in SD, perhaps NE, but we’re working on it this legislative session. (And Brownell’s is located about an hour east of DM on I-80 in Grinnell.)

          Of course, if some of you trollers want to start going the other direction, Steve Hornady has been an NRA Board member for years and Pete Brownell is NRA President, so that’ll give you something to complain about… 🙂

        • SD has very little regulation as far as interest rates and fees allowed. That makes them superior to IA or NE.

    • Hornaday does virtually all of its business through (7?) distributors. I like these folks and my wife is from Grand Island, but that fact does give them cover.

  4. Pray to Jesus that the New York Knicks never win a championship, and that the Giants never make the playoffs again. Jesus loves sports and he loves winners.

  5. I sold my Weatherby when I read where they WOULDN’T move because of the families heritage in California. Now I can’t wait to buy my 30-06 Hornady ammunition for my Weatherby I’m buying once they get moved out of that shit hole.

  6. This is exactly what is needed to change the attitude of the people in power. I would absolutely send cash to Glock if they would discontinue supplying firearms to police and government agencies that violate the 2nd amendment.

    We need more big boys slapping these punk politicians around, and the tune will change.

  7. My hat comes off to hornady and l will do my best to buy more of their products. Now it’s time to get speer and cci on board and really cut back on their ammo supply.

  8. YES.

    This is precisely what needs to happen. The rest of the gun industry should wake up. Military and police contracts are nice, but I would wager the bulk of sales are to private civilians. Without a thriving 2A culture, there is no gun industry.

    I’d like to see gun manufacturers refuse to sell certain guns to California states agencies because said guns aren’t available on the roster for CA citizens. I’d like to see magazine manufacturers refuse to sell normal capacity magazines to NJ state agencies because of NJ’s magazine capacity limits for NJ Citizens. I’d like to see holster makers refuse to sell holsters to Hawaii state agencies because Hawaii hasn’t issue a carry license in 18 years to their private citizens. And so forth and so forth.

    • How about we support State laws that require police to carry only equipment supplied by their agencies. So, say the State of Confusion bans standard-sized magazines or guns not on a list. However, an individual police officer is allowed to buy a standard-size magazine or a gun not on a list. Probably can’t get the State to alter that exemption. However, it’s realistic to imagine that a popular gun-control movement can be inspired to prohibit LEOs in that State from carrying personal gear. They must carry only magazines or guns issued by their agency. Now, then, what if manufacturers of magazines and guns won’t sell to that agency?

      How would police officers feel about being constrained to use magazines or guns that were selected only on the basis that their manufacturers were willing to sell to that State?

  9. They have declared war on the 2A.

    Trying to make it socially unacceptable.

    Like this –

    “The Broward County school district is looking into allegations that a Marjory Stoneman Douglas High teacher compared a conservative student to Hitler during his class.

    The allegations center around Greg Pittman, a history teacher who got into a lengthy Twitter debate with junior Kyle Kashuv earlier this week.

    Kashuv wasn’t in the class, but he said at least three students told him that Pittman called him the “next Hitler.””

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-kyle-kashuv-greg-pittman-20180426-story.html

    They are playing for *keeps*, people. He needs that teacher’s *head* on a pike or a large pile of money for defaming him like that.

    TTAG legal folks – Is this a case of defamation he can sue them for?

    • EDIT – According to the article, the student the teacher called “Hitler” just so happens to be Jewish…

  10. And this is how you get states to stop shitting on the Constitution. Stop providing their goons with guns and ammo and see how quickly they change their tune.

    • Where the Hell you from? I carry Critical Duty in my Ruger P89 and have shot Tap on occasion. Get it online and at my local firearms supply store.

        • checking ammoseek… I see no problem buying Critical Duty from a number of sources. Bud’s says LE only, but no one actually buys anything from them, so who cares?

    • I’ve seen many boxes of Critical Duty on the shelves at Sportsman’s Warehouse. Don’t know why you couldn’t buy some.

    • I’m in Virginia and have no problem buying these products. Good for Hornaday. Love there products, just loaded 700 rounds of .357 Mag with 158 grains. XTPs super accurate in my revolvers a n d the Marlin carbine.

    • Good for Hornady.
      My next self defense purchase will be critical duty. I’m living behind enemy lines in Cali and I can find Critical duty at my favorite two ammo stores. So what are you talking about?
      For this to matter we need Speer, Federal, and Sig to join in.
      While at it, what Statement has Glock made?

    • 100% false. Perhaps you have looked at places that sell Critical Duty at a DISCOUNT to only LEO. Critical duty can be purchased anywhere. If it’s being restricted, it’s definitely not by Hornady

  11. “What would happen if more ammo manufacturers, accessory makers and even gun companies decided that they choose not to aid and abet this kind of intimidation by one of their large government customers?”

    Lenin once said, “The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.” In this case, some “capitalist” will sell the State the guns and ammo that the State will use to kill them.

    Never underestimate the other guy’s greed.

    • Agreed. But I would be thrilled if the only manufacturers willing to do business with NY, NJ, and CA agencies were Raven, Jennings, and Jimenez.

      Conversely, I would be equally happy if companies only sold them second or third tier crap like the S&W Sigma.

      Imagine if the NYPD had to start issuing Taurus .38 revolvers.

  12. High risk- – -?,pornograhy? Illicit drugs and money I can see ,but dirty magazines. Well for the children…. I’m buying more Hornady’s from now on.√

    • The reason that pornography is in the same high risk category on the financial services side of things is the potential in that industry for sex trafficking and exploitation. That’s not to say that all companies involved in the pornography industry are involved in those things, but the potential that they are is higher than the potential that Cabela’s is running a sex trafficking ring. So banks are required to have more stringent policies surrounding those businesses and, in some cases, refuse to do business with them altogether.

    • Actually I think pornography is high-risk because people have a tendency to buy it and then claim they didn’t, thus getting high chargeback rates.

  13. I’m saving up to buy a reloading press and equipment. The Hornady Lock-n-Load just moved to the front of the list.

  14. TTAG, please contact all major manufacturers of firearms, ammunition, and accessories and ask if they will join Hornady in this stand against government sponsored racketeering.

    Then publish the list of companies willing to join, who refuse to join, or do not respond.

  15. I wonder how much ammo Hornady was selling to NY agencies. Probably not much if any. It is a safe bet to virtue signal to your base in this way. Gun haters were not buying Hornady products anyway. Still this kind of thing is not bad in the war on hoplophobes. More companies should make it clear where they stand so people of the gun can make informed purchasing decisions. I use Hornady XTP for my EDC. I will pick up some more to rotate out my ammo when I go to get a new RTIC cooler.

  16. Hmm, if there is any state that would likely default on loans, NY is high on that list. In other words, if a bank is loaning money to NY, I would challenge their executives to prove they are meeting their fiduciary responsibilities.

  17. I am going to pick myself up a few boxes of Hornaday’s finest as a reward for sticking it right back at those mother-you know whats. Nicely said, Steve, nicely said!!

  18. Exceptional people building exceptional products right here in Grand Island Nebraska. They support us we need to step up our support of them.

    • Fedgov isn’t going to let California secede from the Union. The whole idea is a Lefty pipe dream.

      Besides, it would make a huge mess. Cali would be another failed state right on our boarder.

  19. Well done, Steve Hornady! Just like Beretta took their tax revenue and left The People’s Republic of Maryland, more manufacturers and jobbers need to show some backbone.

    I know this is unrealistic, but it sure is nice to picture DiNapoli’s bodyguards having to defend his miserable life with 10 round mags full of steel cased Tula stovepipe crap.

  20. Thank you Steve Hornady! May many others join you. Severely penalize New York and California, create embargo zones there.

  21. Our shop sells, and highly recommends Hornady and will advise our customers to buy their fine products with even greater enthusiasm after this move!

  22. DiNapoli committed appears to have threatened extortion in an attempt to interfere with interstate commerce. Threatening the financial well being of a bank for facilitating sales in interstate commerce is extortion which means he committed the federal crime as described below that carries a maximum of 20 years in prison.

    18 U.S. Code § 1951 – Interference with commerce by threats or violence

    (a) Whoever in any way or degree obstructs, delays, or affects commerce or the movement of any article or commodity in commerce, by robbery or extortion or attempts or conspires so to do, or commits or threatens physical violence to any person or property in furtherance of a plan or purpose to do anything in violation of this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both

    (b) As used in this section—
    (1) The term “robbery” means the unlawful taking or obtaining of personal property from the person or in the presence of another, against his will, by means of actual or threatened force, or violence, or fear of injury, immediate or future, to his person or property, or property in his custody or possession, or the person or property of a relative or member of his family or of anyone in his company at the time of the taking or obtaining.
    (2) The term “extortion” means the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.
    (3) The term “commerce” means commerce within the District of Columbia, or any Territory or Possession of the United States; all commerce between any point in a State, Territory, Possession, or the District of Columbia and any point outside thereof; all commerce between points within the same State through any place outside such State; and all other commerce over which the United States has jurisdiction

  23. I hope he gets arrested for using extortion interfering with interstate commerce or forced out by an angry mob of state cops or both.

  24. I Love Me Some HORNADY 147gr 9mm JHP Self-Defense Ammo For My Springfield Armory XD(M) 3.8in Bi-Tone!!! Only More Reason To Purchase Another Box Of It!!! I’m So Glad I Moved Out Of N.Y. Years Ago To Gun Friendly State of North Carolina in 1997!!!

  25. HORNADY YOU DID THE RIGHT THING..
    DINAPOLI IS JUST ANOTHER ZEALOT
    ANTI GUN SLUG ..
    NO MORE VOTES FOR HIM IN THIS FAMILY..

  26. Way 2 go, Hornady! Already using 117 great SST in my 26-06 and XTPs in my 9mm. Was already going 2 grab more 4 some reloading.

  27. Well done Hornady. I hope others will follow suit. I’ll be sure to buy a bunch of bullets and brass next week to help pick up the slack 🙂

  28. Good for Hornady, and good for Wells Fargo (for once they did something right) in standing up to the mob. Does anyone know if any of the other institutions (other than Bank of America, which already did) caved?

  29. I actually filed an official FBI complaint about Mr. DiNapoli’s letter, since he managed to commit two federal felonies in one letter. Violating 15 U.S. Code 1 (Conspiracy in restraint of Trade) and 18 U.S. Code 241 (Conspiracy against rights). $1,000,000 fine and 10 years in Club Fed – nice twofer.

  30. Here in Commifornia a law is about to go into effect (July 1) prohibiting law abiding citizens from buying more than 50 rounds of ammo at one time, ammo can only be bought over the counter face to face (in effect now), and requiring a background check each time.
    So, if CA LEOs and departments, and legislators, find themselves unable to buy ammunition, or magazines larger than 10 round capacity, or pistols not on the state’s approved list, that would be only fair.

  31. I, as a member in good standing, would recommend that ALL NRA members boycott New York state as a vacation destination. IMHO

  32. “What would happen if more ammo manufacturers, accessory makers and even gun companies decided that they choose not to aid and abet this kind of intimidation by one of their large government customers?”

    I think this was done before. Can someone tell us if Barrett still refuses to service any of its firearms owned or used by a California agency?

  33. “What would happen if more ammo manufacturers, accessory makers and even gun companies decided that they choose not to aid and abet this kind of intimidation by one of their large government customers?”

    The governments would be happy. That’s what they want you idiot.

  34. Hornady XTP has long been my preferred bullet for self-defense purposes, so I can’t “switch” to them, but I can stock up on my supplies.

    Looks like I need to place an order soon.

  35. Well, well well. I will make it a special project of mine to buy Hornady. For one, I like their products and add this to the list of reasons. Hoorah!!!

  36. Just spoke to Hornady’s LE rep today. I work for a NY based LEA who is considering their ammo. Told us sales are still a go for NY LEAs and we’re in the process of getting demo ammo sent to us.

  37. I have always loved my Hornady ammunition. I love it more now. Should I buy a Yeti to carry the Hornady home from Dicks after paying with my BOA card? ROFL!!!! Heck no, I got it at BassPro, Midway and Lucky Gunner and paid with WF. Support those who support our rights, fight with our wallets.

  38. God bless you Steve Hornady. I hope other manufacturers follow suit. I’m a handloader so, I’m going to buy a few thousand unprimed brass cases in .223. I certainly do not need them but, I support those that outwardly support out Bill Of Rights.

  39. Meanwhile Seattle is trying to pass a $500 a head tax on the large businesses in the city. The city government is squealing as Amazon just shut down its huge headquarters expansion and has put on hold the leasing of a 30 story building. We’re talking 8,000 jobs and 1,000,000 square feet of office space.
    The head tax is intended to go to the homeless. Right now there are questions about where the $130 million a year the city and county are spending on an estimated 10-15,000 homeless population. (Or $8-13,000 each)
    Seems fair that when governments get repressive, business can push back.
    https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/amazon-pauses-seattle-construction-pending-city-hall-head-tax-vote/
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-plays-hardball-with-seattle-over-employee-tax-proposal/

  40. Most of my amno budget goes to Hornady as it is. Without any doubt thier defensive ammo is top of the line. Hornady will continue to have my support and as I’m just one man I hope all those like me will continue to make them the success that this class act company has become. “Blank” new york and the fools who run it

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