TTAG tipster CF sent us a heads-up on new gun control legislation wending its way through The Aloha State’s notoriously anti-gun legislature. The endlessly beleaguered Hawaii State Rifle Association calls SB 783 “the worst bill of the decade.” Surely you jest! Don’t call them Shirley. And the HSRA is neither joshing nor wrong. Check out this summary . . .
Senator Maile Shimabukuro (Southwest Oahu) has introduced this terribly restrictive anti-Second Amendment bill.
SB783 requires that when you apply for a firearms permit you must swear in writing that neither you or any of your family or household has now or in the past “certain mental disorders.”
If you don’t swear so, you must lock up and secure or turn in all firearms and ammunition within 48 hours or pay a fine of $50 per day.
SB783 requires that failure to pay child or spousal support is cause for revocation of a firearm permit (which means also turn in all firearms and ammunition that you already have).
If you are ever arrested and refuse a breath, blood, or urine test, you must turn in or dispose of all your firearms within 48hrs.
And here’s the really, really galling bit.
Law enforcement officers are exempted from all provisions.
More gun-related civil rights trouble in Paradise. Good luck to the PoTG fighting the statists in America’s 50th state.
I love how LEOs are always exempt from this bullshit. Mostly because the LEOs dont realize that one day they will no longer have that luxury. Turn in all guns and ammo at the end of your shift. For the children.
Someone in Hawaii needs to offer that as an amendment right now. Write it so that any officer who runs afoul of any of those provisions must turn in all of his or her personal firearms, and may only carry his duty weapon on his or her scheduled shifts. Why should cops be able to drive drunk, take illegal drugs, and not pay child support?
Never mind that the homes of cops could be targeted by criminals wanting to steal guns. It’s simply Common Sense to lock them in the police vault when the officer is not on duty. You know, For the Children.
The police shouldn’t be allowed to have high capacity mags when everyone else can’t have them either. I mean, what if a criminal were to steal one. Think of the children.
I submitted testimony against this bill (and many others this year…) and one of the arguments I made was that of confiscation of firearms violated due process.
Thanks for getting the word out about our anti-gun legislator’s BS bills….and by the way, it’s The Hawaii Rifle Association (HRA).
If the LEO is not safe to have a firearm off duty, why would they be safe while on duty? If this proposed law is just, then implement it for everyone all the time.
If they meet any of the disarmament criteria in the proposed legislation, then they should be disarmed period.
Honolulu PD has some of the most corrupt cops I have ever encountered. At least that was the case when I lived there in the ’80s.
Wait why should you let such a dangerous miscreant carry a duty weapon? They can use a billy club like British Bobbies did for decades!
So the intent is that you can be a drunken, pot-smoking, wife beating cop in the HI state and still keep your guns.
Huh.
When I was a young whippersnapper I wanted to see Hawaii just because. Now not so much. (The big O ruined it for my wife (who I don’t beat – she knows where the guns are)).
I’ve had a couple of run ins with the Honolulu PD and I can tell you that without a doubt they are the least professional, most inept, least respectful clowns in uniforms I’ve ever encountered. I’m not one to make excuses for making a bad decision, but of those jagaloons nearly cost me my military career
They’re not ALL bad apples.
I have run into a few HPD who are very definitely “good cops.”
Wait a minute–do you have to have a permit merely to own a gun in Hawaii? How otherwise would revocation of a permit mean that you would have to “turn in” all your guns? This is just mind-boggling.
Hawaii’s particular brand of gun control makes California, Massachusetts, New York, and Illinois look like New Hampshire. It’s entirely ‘by permit only’.
Same in Connecticut… you can’t even buy ammo without a pistol permit or eligibility certificate.
In MA you have to be a state resident and have a state issued FOID card. You can’t even buy pepper spray without an FOID card. They also limit how many rounds you can buy.
But Hawaii is still worse, I think. In CT, if you already owned a long gun before the new permitting process, you don’t have to have a permit to just keep owing it (you do have to have a permit to buy ammo for it, however).
@fishydude, MA law on pepper spray was changed last year. No FID required.
http://www.recorder.com/home/13588418-95/pepper-spray-now-available-without-an-fid
Also, there is no limit on how much ammo a person can buy. There are Fire regulations on storage — 5000 rounds of centerfire and 5000 rounds of rimfire — without a storage permit.
In Connecticut, I bought my first pistol when I was 16.
When I was 18, I got my concealed carry permit.
This was 1963 and 1965, respectively.
How the mighty-left has fallen to communist oppression.
Hawaii has long be run by Leftist/Socialist/Collective/ control freaks and assholes. VERY few authorities are not either Chinese or Japanese even the kanakas get the shaft.
Ray
To all of the above: Wow–just wow! Reading all that, I just have to say–I dunno, Toto, but I don’t think we’re in America anymore…
Actually, in practice the HI model is better than NY at least. 2 weeks and you have a handgun. There are no licenses or address change reqs. If you convert to a different barrel, you don’t have to add that to a license. There is no FOID. In NY it takes around 6 months, although it is easier to get a carry permit in many places. HI it’s impossible. This was at least the case a few years ago. Their system is eons above NY in handguns at least. Rifles, not so much.
Thanks to the SAFE act, in New York if your pistol permit is revoked for any reason, you must turn in all your firearms.
Note there is no permit for long arms in New York (outside of the city), so the police will just come into your house, search and seize them all.
And when I say revoked for any reason, I mean any reason. Whatever the licensing authority deems. You don’t have to commit any crime. It could be administrative or it could just be at the whim of the county judge.
There are reports that China is toying with idea of assisting Hawaiian independence movement. I say lets get a jump on this and sell the islands to China.
Amen!
the bulk of our debt not to things like Social Security and guberment pensions is to China(only like 11% of those trillions)
maybe we could call it even
Naw, Hawaii is worth more than that. Let’s make them give us half of their lead supply, too!
fair, but stipulated it has to be made to ammo
Piss on China. Lets just ship all the libtard commies to China instead.
I was just there last week and climbed Koko Head, just above the ONLY public range on Oahu. It was definitely busy on a Saturday, and the sound of the range as I climbed the hill made me feel right at home.
Too bad the laws stink.
i did the exact same thing in november. definitely is a shame that the place is so chocked full of liberals. i was expecting a much worse social experience though.
Can you imagine the weeping and gnashing of teeth if this were policy for speech?
“You must have a permit before you can talk in public, use the Internet, or publish anything. And you must certify that no one in your family (including yourself) has or has had certain mental disorders. Failure to certify requires that you must begin wearing a muzzle in public and lock up all paper, writing instruments, envelopes, postage stamps, computers, printers, wireless routers, modems, cell phones, and landline phones within 48 hours or start paying a fine of $50 per day.”
We need to publish the phone numbers, e-mail address, and postal address of the nimrod who introduced that legislation and melt down the circuits and mail trucks with our vociferous objection to this garbage.
Senator Maile S.L. Shimabukuro
Senate District 21
Hawaii State Capitol
Room 222
phone: 808-586-7793
fax: 808-586-7797
[email protected]
Member of the following committees:
Hawaiian Affairs
Judiciary and Labor
Water and Land
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/memberpage.aspx?member=shimabukuro
Here you go, as requested. We can use all the help we can get! Aloha, Ed, Waianae, HI
Thanks Ed, I wrote her already and asked her to retract this insane bill.
I hope everyone else here does the same.
Welcome to the modern ‘progressive’ movement. Where no right is sacred or immune to restriction if they can get enough votes.
This nation needs an enema. And the port to stick it is blue.
I have been to Hawaii multiple times and I don’t like the place. Not sure why anyone would live there. I don’t consider it really a state, it’s more like a theme park without the rides. My advice if you live there: Move! My reasons:
1. The cost of living is insane.
2. If you happen to be in a racial majority on the mainland, you will be a hated, actively discriminated against racial minority in Hawaii.It gives you an appreciation for the evils of racism, but once you’ve got that, you don’t need any more.
3. The traffic is insane.
4. The gun laws are insane.
I think there were good reasons to start WWII, but the attack on Pearl Harbor wasn’t one of them. If I were Roosevelt, I would have said, “Fine, take it! What else you got?”
Try Kauaii sometime. Most of your objections don’t apply. Costs are silly low, I believe because there is nothing to do there but the tourist industry, most of which goes to Oahu. Tourist go to Kauaii to hike the remote coastline, which produces essentially no revenue or jobs. And the feral chickens are cool!
I have heard that and I am sure you are right about that island. However, feral chickens are not my idea of a tourist attraction!
“Cool?” Maybe if they learn to tell time and stop crowing at 3 am. And the 2nd worst law of the decade is you can’t shoot the feathered vermin…
The deaths of thousands of soldiers is not just cause reason?
I disagree.
However. Was it worth making Hawaii a state for after the war? NO.
Correction sailors.
I should have said armed forces personnel or servicemen and women
IF there is a bright spot and this is going to be debatable, the ‘natives’ want to return the monarchy. Surprise but China is helping them. I can’t imagine why. /sarc
@JohnF, if you go to HI again, try shopping at an ABC store. Locals claim that ABC stands for Anyone But Caucasians.
The rest are fine, but #2 is 100% BS. you’re a tourist. you’re discriminated against because you’re a tourist, not because you’re white. the only reason you assumed it’s because you’re white is because you dont really know anything about our state.
the LOCAL white people here get along just fine. its not a racial divide, its a divide between locals and foreigners who feel that tourism and newcomers who are disrespectful to the local culture are infringing on their existence.
outside of the few, there are no prejudices against white people who live here and are from here. don’t paint us as racist just because people in your eyes mistreated you.
im not saying whatever happened to you is justified, just that you’re misconstruing the motive in almost all cases.
Wait! Isnt the racial majority on Hawaii asian?
I guess it was only a matter of time before the “Pinky Swear” law was pulled out of the bag.
Indeed! This law appears as if its been written by a club of 5 year olds, making stipulations under which cootie infested girls can join their club.
Due Process? Never heard of it.
Civil rights? You don’ need no steenkin’ civil rights!
What do past mental disorders have to do with current capacity to keep and bear arms?
What does payment of child support have to do with the right to keep and bear arms?
What does asserting one’s fifth amendment-protected rights against self-incrimination (e.g. refusing a breathalyzer test) have to do with the right to keep and bear arms?
And why do statutes that place LEO above the law continue to pass constitutional muster against an equal protection challenge?
To be totally honest, I don’t think anyone has ever challenged any of these laws on an equal protection basis.
Personally, I thought an even more compelling challenge would be on the basis that our U.S. Constitution forbids titles of royalty — which is apparently the case with cops who have a separate set of laws and qualified immunity.
“…a separate set of laws and qualified immunity…” = unequal protection under the law.
These LEO exemptions have really never been challenged on equal protection grounds? I’m surprised – bu, then again, I guess I’m not, really.
This would seem to be a perfect opportunity to make such a challenge, if this abomination were to pass. Once again, why should cops be allowed to skate on child support? Why should cops be able to take illegal drugs and drive drunk? I don’t know how the state could reasonably answer those questions.
Reflects the new push of the civilian disarmament movement: If you can’t outlaw more types of firearms, outlaw more and more people. Not that they didn’t push this way before, but it seems to be their main focus now.
Hawaii, a socialist police state where badge carrying morons are exempt. The same applies to NY, NJ, CA MA and CT.
As everyone knows, I-594 was passed in November in Washington, now the legislature wants to change it, but only for the LEOs and military. WTF. That said Hawaii is worse. (for now anyway)
“Washington lawmakers are considering changes to the new law that requires background checks on gun transfers.
The state Senate Law and Justice Committee is holding a hearing Monday afternoon on several bills, including exemptions for police and military members.”
Source please? If you live in WA and have been following things, Laurie Jenkins won’t let anything out of her committee, so i’m not sure where this change for LEO and Military is coming from?
Rick,
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/State-lawmakers-mull-changes-to-gun-background-check-law-291266091.html
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=5615&year=2015
Even though the changes are sponsored by largely anti-594 state politicians, because they add exemptions for LEO to 594, Jinkins and other champions of 594 will probably let this through. It ensures that LEO are less likely to be on the side of the citizens in the fight against 594, which as you probably know, is not popular with LE departments at all.
As Chip just mentioned, this kind of stuff seems wide open to an equal protection challenge. When you see things like this happening it gives you a deeper appreciation of the US Constitution.
Anybody else notice this dog has the same designation as an equally turdish Remington? Funny how the universe works.
Commie bastards…
LEOs should not be “exempt”. I disagree that LEO will lose the exemption at some point. They are being given a “class” privilege in exchange for acquiescing to politicians removing rights, and it creates a class of person with a vested interest in maintaining a future status quo of inequity. Once a legislature creates such a monster it will be almost impossible for the legislature to “take back” those special privileges, even if they did want to dispense with what in effect will become their private bodyguard class.
Imagine if the above stipulations were requirements for voting, or freedom speech, or conditions for any/all employment.
Perhaps Kamerad Obumer can be the Chair of the Hi Politburo.
The HI libtards had the US they will LOVE living Chicom.
I guess the fact that it’s just flat out unconstitutional has no bearing on it. That pesky Constitution can be completely ignored as long as it makes the Nazi’s feel better or if they’re doing it “for the children.”
Is this legislator basing all this gun trouble by watching episodes of Hawaii Five-O?
Can’t we all admit that crazy sometimes doesn’t rear its ugly head until too late (like when HI a-holes write stupid-crazy legislation).
Welcome ISIS with warm and empty hands O people of the soon to be subjugated.
That’s right, I said “ISIS” not “ISIL” [a/k/a the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant] like our prez and his admin. uses (effectively annexing for the enemy more land than they claim themselves and backhanding Israel (whose territory is contained in the Levant)).
“What the fuck does Vietnam have to do with anything! What the fuck were you talking about?! ” – The Dude
A LEO exemption to a law utterly destroys any legitimate case that could be made for its enactment.
Hawaii isn’t long for this union of states. I read an article about increased Chinese interest in the populous Hawaiian cessation movement and we all know the PRC is head over heals for personal freedom.
Hmm, I wonder if Obama will keep his estate there if that happens? Assuming the Chinese give him the option, of course. I could almost with for it, if it didn’t give the Chinese an important staging area.
Don’t forget about Russia. Their bombers have been “exploring” our defensive responses for months.
There is another constitutional flaw with this proposed legislation. The Fifth Amendment clearly states that government cannot take property without due process or compensation. I`m sure this bill has no provision for due process or just compensation. Its your property, you paid the sales tax and the cost of the firearms permit. Besides the obvious attack on right to bear arms, this is also a property rights and constitutional process issue.
Its also noteworthy that not one of these authors of legislation like this will explain or defend LEO exemptions. Its probably a effort to buy their loyalty.
Why would they need to explain anything? Government goons are never subject to government laws raping the public.
I only have two months till I PCS off this rock and I couldn’t be happier. Also how is everyone glossing over the fact that Hawaii has a 100% firearm registation?
So Hawaii no longer honors the constitution?
Wow that sucks. It DOES make Illinois look good. At least the weather is nice…
Reminds me of the nonsense that happened in the U.S. Virgin Islands. We’ve been stuck with a convoluted coupon system ever since.
They always start on the fringes when they want to test new gun control laws. Probably because they know there’s fewer people with the means for a lengthy legal fight.
“… If you are ever arrested and refuse a breath, blood, or urine test, you must turn in or dispose of all your firearms within 48hrs. …”
Well, I would think that drug warriors, prohibitionists and assholes-in-general in all 57 states find that clause perfectly acceptable.
While I agree that this legislation is ridiculous (especially the part about LEO exemptions, the cops in Hawaii are definitely the least professional bunch of goons I’ve ever met, with the possible exception of some North Carolina LEO’s who apparently had a particular dislike for military folks) I’ve gotta be honest, all this hate for Hawaii is pretty ridiculous too. I lived there for 3.5 years and while it’s not perfect (the number of people who came out and protested the marriage equality bill was a shock and belies the notion that Hawaii is full of libtards, it’s actually a pretty socially conservative state being basically founded by missionaries and businessmen), it’s much better than my home state of Florida which is full of the North’s rejects.
The locals are by and large genuinely friendly (some of the nicest folks I’ve ever met, in fact), respectful (can’t count how many times I’ve been on public transport on the mainland where no one budged when elderly folks or pregnant women needed a seat) and pretty happy. Why wouldn’t they be? The place is gorgeous, even Oahu which is “ruined” by all the development there. The weather is perfect, the beach is never more than half an hour away and you’ve got world class waves once you get there.
In my experience, the people that hate Hawaii are either New Yorkers (or people from other big cities who can’t stand the slower pace of the islands) or those who are from the middle of nowhere who can’t stand all the people (especially that they’re all *GASP!* A-SHUNS!) and the fact that they’re different and live life differently than what they’re used to back in Podunk. And that’s understandable. It takes some getting used to and some people just can’t adapt. No worries.
I’ve traveled all over the world and met homebodies who couldn’t understand the appeal of going to new places and learning how other folks do things and maybe learning a couple new tricks along the way or at least representing the US as more than just our government policies. It’s not for everyone. Neither is Hawaii. You want to live in a place that has green mountains, boar hunting, deep sea fishing, tropical beaches and a spirit of Ohana that rivals the South’s famous hospitality? Me too. If not, by all means, go back where you came from. Please.
While I like my Stag 2T and my constitutional right to bear it, I’m not about to leave paradise because I don’t like the paperwork involved in registering it.
“When Government takes away citizens’ right to bear arms it becomes citizens’ duty to take away government’s right to govern.” -George Washington
John Rubio, can you please cite your source for that quote? Thanks
I can find no evidence that Washington said any such thing.
“Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people’s liberty teeth (and) keystone… the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable… more than 99% of them [guns] by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference [crime]. When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour.”
– George Washington, Address to 1st session of Congress
An article about this article:
http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/02/hawaii-gun-control-measure-ticks-off-fire-arms-fan/
Remember, many and much Japanese influence in HI, and they in Japan have a very different view of firearms. I suspect this shapes much of the screwed up thought on firearms.
Am I to understand no LEO would have anyone in the family ever with mental health issue? One thing about HI, the bad guys have the best firearms. Drive up a back road and step into the brush sometime, you’ll find out.
Isn’t it funny, here’s ground zero of WWII attack, a place where self-defense couldn’t be more clear and yet HI goes dummy on us.
The wife’s been agitating for a Hawaiian vacation. Nice of them to give me another reason not to go.
Vote with your wallet. There’s no reason to give people who are opposed to your rights your dollars.
The Police don’t write these silly laws. Politicians exempt LEO’s because they know that both police organizations and local governments won’t support any bill that would require such record keeping and loss of personnel. The vast majority of police officers in this country support the second amendment as written. They don’t wan’t or expect “special treatment”. I know that the hater’s out there will back blast, but that is just the fact.
Direct your comments at those that are actually writing and attempting to impose these unconstitutional bills….your elected representatives! (And their judicial appointees)
All I know is that on “Hawaii 50” everybody and their dog has a full auto sub gun and/or a pistol with a high capacity clipazine. 50 is always running around in full tacticool gear shooting up the place. If I believed how Oahu was portrayed on this show, I wouldn’t go near the place for fear of being shot.
In the real world I don’t go for fear of being separated from my money. And I don’t think most of the residents really like tourists. Jamaica was a lot friendlier.
Truly amazing how deep we’ve slipped in the cesspool of the “nanny state”. I was stationed in the Navy on Oahu in the ’80s, had my Colt 1911 and Ruger Mark II shipped there from PA. I literally walked in HPD with both in a brown paper bag and told the gal at the counter I needed to register them in HI. NO PROBLEM! She filed the proper paperwork and I left. Used to shoot Combat pistol at the Schofield Rod and Gun Club. The only good thing in HI as far as I’m concerned.
This is ridiculous!
HPD already refuses a buying permit to anyone who has PTSD. Not all PTSD is violent or suicidal.
I have PTSD hyper vigilance because I used to do minesweeper in Vietnam; I notice almost everything on the road when I drive, and for that they deny me firearms.