“The Oklahoma Highway Patrol report two of their own were shot,” koco.com reports. “OHP says the accident happened during a training exercise. It’s suspected a handgun malfunctioned.” It’s suspected by whom? On the face of it, that sounds like a cover-up. Provided we’re not talking about a gun that blows up – and we’re not – if a handgun actually does “malfunction”, what harm can it do if it was pointed in a safe direction? None. “OHP cadets were on the gun range at the time of the shooting taking part in the Highway Patrol Academy . . .
The report came in around 3:45 p.m. A trooper (who is a firearms instructor) and a cadet (a trooper in training) were both hit. One was hit in the hand, the other hit in the leg. It’s believed a single shot went through both the cadet and trooper. Investigators do not yet know if the gun in question belonged to the cadet or trooper’s gun.
The gun belonged to the gun? Seriously though, stop lying guys. It just alienates you from your employers.
It just went BANG huh??
All by itself??
That would be real news.
Very real possibility of a hang fire or other malfunction during training especially using cheap ammo. I would reserve judgement on this.
Bottom line is this: the bullet will not changed course after leaving the barrel unless it hits something. Therefore, if all it hit was a hand and leg, then it was pointed at a hand or leg when if fired. It really does not matter if it was loaded, unloaded, misfire, hangfire, failure to feed, failure to be blue, failure to be a 20 year vet holding it… or what ever you want to put in that category…. it was pointed at the hand and the leg when it discharged…. AND THAT WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!
ding ding ding ding… we have a winner! That is why so many of us profess the one rule to rule them all while at the range (notice I didnt say out in the field or somewhere where you arent always sure what a “safe direction” is. At a 2 dimensional range if everyone keeps the gun pointed downrange and away from their and other’s body parts, stupid shit like the above wouldn’t happen.
Thomas is right. I don’t care if it was a real malfunction or not. The gun was pointed at a hand and a leg. Negligence, pure and simple.
Rule number two: Never let the muzzle cover anything that you are not willing to destroy.
Thus, since we can safely assume that the hand and leg were important to the trooper holding the weapon at the rime, that rule was violated!
Thus, this was a NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE, no matter what story the cop makes up to cover his sorry butt….
I say, blame it on a booger hook. Nuf said ! : )
I can’t speak for Oklahoma’s training ground, but if it’s anything like the training facility which the Texas DPS runs just north of Austin, then they’re particular about the ammunition they allow on the range. CHL instructors demonstrate their proficiency on that range, which is really just one of many ranges they have there, and the DPS has a strict list of approved ammunition: by type, spec and manufacturers by name. Troopers inspect every box on your stand, as well as your firearm itself, for compliance and proper operation. I’m not seeing Oklahoma getting away with the cheap ammo excuse.
If NOT a shooting error (i.e. student pulling trigger when drawing his weapon, as in off hand out in front of body waiting to receive the strong hand drawing weapon- pulls trigger and shoot hand, and in pain manages to fire again into Instructors leg) or however, the operator error was achieved (several police officer’s in County where this reviewer lived managed to shoot themselves in LEG while drawing their NEW Glock 17’s when issued, blaming faulty gun safety.
More likely IF defective ammo, especially 9mm or 40s&w used by LE Departments, IF THE BULLET, HAVING NOT ENOUGH CRIMP, YOU WILL SEE A BULLET HAS MOVED INTO THE CASE WHILE FIRING THE AMMO (if not enough crimp, bullet moving into the case can happen). No Big Deal- Right? NO- now have small bomb in that 9mm or 40s&w. Shooting the ammo- your gun MIGHT withstand the pressure; BUT- EXAMPLE if bullet of 40s&w moves 0.0010″ (one thousand of inch, thickness of business card) pressure can rise up to 300% and if bullet is 0.0030 into case (thirty thousand, three bus. cards- again seen it done)… pressure can go up to 1300% and HIGHER; regardless with EITHER event, resulting pressure will rise to a point FAR EXCEEDING anything manufacturer designed their gun. Reviewer is a proud parent of a Marine, who’s now LEO in another state; he BLEW UP his Glock. Story: shooting his Glock 27 for qualification (dept issues both primary G22 and backup G27), with something like THREE rounds left in magazine in gun, and using ______ factory duty ammo, …… had a minor explosion in his hand (left out ammo mfgr. name, initially said testing of three rounds remaining showed that NOTHING was wrong with ‘THEIR’ ammo, whereupon , my oldest son answered correctly, saying- “That was NOT the round which blew up my pistol”;
Ammo mfgr, DID in the end replace the Glock pistol (fyi: barrel chamber area exposed when slide was in battery- was GONE- the slide was intact on Glock Frame, pistol’s plastic grip shattered and only by sheer Luck and Pachmayr, my son’s hand was saved from using Pachmayr’s slip on rubber grip (Pachmayr’s rubber is Tough ),, that rubber grip was all that prevented damage to son’s hand_ impressive strength when grip frame was in pieces, having a Glock slide intact on rails in dust cover area when entire chamber end of barrel has disappeared into pieces scattered around the range. ) .
Mentioned in detail, IF YOU SEE A ROUND WITH THE BULLET FURTHER INTO THE CASE OR HAVING SHORTER LENGTH THAN OTHER BULLETS, DO NOT—– *REPEATING DO NOT* —– SHOOT THOSE ROUNDS. Take the ammo apart for components, dispose of properly, but don’t shoot it. TEST remaining ammo in box and/or clip, pushing Nose of bullet into edge of table to ensure bullet doesn’t go into case. Better safe than sorry, blowing up an expensive gun or worse parts of shooter’s anatomy. davzway
Hmm, let’s see, firearms instructor in front of or partially in front of the cadet, cadet tries clearing a hang fire improperly, bullet fires, goes through hand, into leg? Seems like the most probable explanation, especially if the malfunction part is to be believed.
Must have been a Glock. Oh wait, I own one! Is it waiting to shoot me when I get home?
Why don’t they just not issue a press release? And isn’t it obvious by now that cops aren’t gun experts?
I know, right? Ever notice how these malfunctioning firearms never seem to “go off” except when someone just happens to be holding, handling, manipulating them in some way? When’s the last time someone woke up in the middle of the night from the sound of their gun discharging itself in a locked safe, for example?
My safe IS pretty soundproof and it’s in the basement. I’d bet they just sneak out, load themselves and PARTY HARD!
Because only LE can be trusted with guns….they are professionals.
snicker
Thank goodness my guns are obviously trained. There are two of them in the room and they aren’t even giving me dirty looks, much less shooting me.
A grossly negligent violation of some very basic safety rules. Sure, your average Joe Blows out there manage to scare up some now and again (and sometimes with very tragic results), but these are supposed to be the mythical “Only Ones” trumpeted by the civilian disarmament industrial complex. Don’t expect to see these kinds of incidents on their blogs or websites any time soon.
Looking for some local news stories on this in OK media when I came across this:
“Possibly dozens of drunken-driving suspects were never charged because highway patrol troopers failed to turn in paperwork to prosecutors, The Oklahoman has learned.”
Oopsie. Tough media relations day for them.
At least this newspaper is referring to a “training accident” where the two were “shot during a training exercise.”
Even if I do give them the benefit of the doubt that the gun did malfunction (which I do not) and another trooper didn’t just pull the trigger on an “empty” chamber or whatever, the gun still wasn’t pointed in a safe direction. People make mistakes, I get it. Plenty of law abiding gun owners and honest cops have a brain fart and make a mistake just like this. What angers me, though, is the obvious cover up and the double standard. If I did this at a public range, I would be arrested and charged with reckless endangerment and then the local authorities would be all up the range owner’s a$$ “in the interest of public safety to ensure safety procedures are being followed at the range.”
God bless Google:
“The firearms instructor and cadet were treated and released from the hospital Monday evening. The instructor has been identified as Trooper Mark Walters, 53 of Yukon. He is a 30-year veteran of the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. The cadet has been identified as Cadet Bryce Stout, 24 of Weatherford.
Bryce accidentally shot himself and the trooper.”
Local TV station ran that earlier today. Instructor in hand, cadet in leg. They had another “leg shooting” at that range with the OK troopers last year too. Out of curiosity, anyone know what standard duty issue is for that agency for firearm and holster? Or what they would likely be using for cadet training?
Oklahoma SigSauer P226 357
Link:http://forums.officer.com/t26102/ part way down
Good thing that gun didn’t have a back up gun.
Yo dawg! I heard your gun has a gun that can fire guns from it’s gun!
Given the terrible writing and reporting I’m not sure we can take ANYTHING away from it.
“Local TV station ran that earlier today. Instructor in hand, cadet in leg. They had another “leg shooting” at that range with the OK troopers last year too. Out of curiosity, anyone know what standard duty issue is for that agency for firearm and holster? Or what they would likely be using for cadet training?”
So are they 2for2 or 3for2? Next year they should bring a ref.
Or a suit of armor.
Will an official report have to be filed and available for review by anyone? Anyone with background in this know? I know other locales have different standards, but maybe someone has some insight into any type of real accountability with events like this. Because if me and a buddy had a “malfunction” that shot two people, pretty sure someone would be in deep shit pretty quickly, “malfunction” or not.
Last I heard OHP carries a sig in .357 sig. Not sure which model.
This sounds like someones bugger hook was on the bang switch of the boom stick. Muzzle discipline and trigger discipline are key. I think all LEOs should take the NRAs Eddie Eagle safety class every year.
Or everytime there is an ND, there is a mandatory, department wide safety course and the officer who’s gun went off gets to sit at the front of the class in a dunce cap with a target painted on it.
And these morons will get to carry anywhere in the country…while I can’t…of the three of us, I’m the only person who has managed not to shoot myself…
Yep. And in Oklahoma, they also have the ability (even long before shall-issue passed) to obtain a lifetime retired concealed Firearms ID card that allows them to carry concealed anywhere in the state in the same manner as an off-duty officer.
In other words, they can conceal anywhere in the state and even carry a gun larger than a .45 where normal permit holders in Oklahoma can not. Which OK has a crap ton of restricted areas for average permit holders. But it’s ok for cadets who go bang bang to carry into schools and bars…. And have LEOSA carry so they can also go bang bang on the NYC subway, but they are trained professionals.
That gun is obviously a domestic terrorist and should be charged as such.
I had to qualify every year for seven years, for the Iowa State Pen. , Rifle pistol, shotgun. We shot laying on the ground, shot at night and in the rain. No one was shot in the last 25 years, except an inmate trying to escape at the U of I Hospital. So, please explain to this St Louis born redneck, how a cadet shoots himself in the leg, and the instructor in his hand. Just where were these hand at ?
I can see the cadet shooting himself in the leg – loss of trigger discipline/rushing a reholster/SERPA oopsie/etc, but I’m with you, trying to figure out how the instructor’s hand got in the way unless he was manipulating the pistol/holster himself
Maybe the cadet panicked and pulled the trigger instead of yelling “bad touch!”
Hmmm..perhaps cadet racking the slide from the muzzle, with barrel canted ‘down’ (so he could see in the chamber), tried to show the instructor what *he* was seeing, inadvertantly muzzled his leg…
*BLAM!!!*…
……oh sh!t…..
Of course it was a malfunction — the cop was aiming at a dog.
Blue wall again.
Cop
Dog thing
Old
Are we done yet?
When they’re done shooting dogs everyday, yes.
Never seen a pistol have a “cookoff”.
KCK says: “Cop, Dog thing, Old, Are we done yet?”
Seriously – that is so last week (literally)…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2647289/Cops-respond-blaring-home-alarm-shoot-dead-Bullet-family-dog.html
If the police are having these problems then I don’t think that non-police should be trusted with guns. It’s just too dangerous for the untrained.
We laugh, but the scary thing is that that’s the take-away for many gungrabbers with stories like this. These are the same people who, when a mass murderer runs people down with a car or slashes people to death with a knife, will turn around and, with a gale force air of indignation, say “See?! THIS is why guns should be banned! Just think of how much *worse* this could have been if he’d had a GUN!”
True – gives them more ammo (no pun intended) to confirm how dangerous guns are…focusing on the tool itself, rather than (in this case) the tool behind the gun.
A hand and a leg? Maybe they were up to some hanky panky when it got dropped and went off.
Maybe trainer was teaching holstering techniques using a serpa?
Hopefully his training kicked in and he called his parents.
No such thing as an “accidental discharge”. They are all NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES. Pure and simple.
Instructor reaches for the last Krispy Kreme…..donut crazed, low IQ rookie cadet with a loaded gun…..???
It is lack of training that is at fault and the responsible person should stand up!
Locally 1 agency uses WWB for training & qualification. Hand & leg also could have been a ricochet. Not saying it was just more info needed.
About the only way this could exhibit even a microgram of truth is were a cartridge to not fire, the (presumably trainee) shooter to exercise poor discipline during the half minute, and finally a delayed-action boom.
Doesn’t sound too likely, though, does it?