Email blast from Gun Owners of America:
It has been one of the most contemptible chapters in American history. Over 257,000 veterans — fresh from putting their lives on the line for American freedom — have returned to our country, only to be stripped of their constitutional rights without due process.
But this chapter is about to come to an end.
Tomorrow, on the House floor, the House will consider H.R. 1181 — a bill to restore the rights of veterans to keep and bear arms.
So here is the current situation: over 257,000 veterans who have experienced trauma in Vietnam, or Sarajevo, or Kabul, or Mosul, have made the mistake of seeking counseling from the Department of Veterans Affairs.
VA psychiatrists, with no due process whatsoever, then proceeded to appoint a “guardian” over the finances of these law-abiding veterans — and have used this appointment as an excuse to send their names to the NICS secret “gun ban list” in West Virginia.
In some cases, police have arrived at their homes to take away the guns they already have.
And those veterans who have kept a single gun for hunting or self-defense risk a felony conviction and a decade in prison.
All for honorably serving their country. And all at the behest of cowards like Barack Obama who wouldn’t have thought of risking their lives for America’s freedom.
H.R. 1181 Changes Everything
First, under H.R. 1181, a veteran cannot legally have his gun rights taken away without a finding by a judge, magistrate or judicial authority.
This makes the bill far better than some of its counterparts — which have frequently allowed an administrative board or commission to take away veterans’ constitutional rights.
Second, under H.R. 1181, a veteran can lose his guns ONLY if he is a danger to himself or others. No more can a veteran lose his constitutional rights because a guardian is administering his checkbook.
Again, this makes the bill far better than some of its counterparts, which retain the “guardian” provision.
Third, because of these two provisions, we believe the 257,000 law-abiding veterans who have unlawfully had their rights taken away should have them restored — automatically.
Certainly, Donald Trump can use this statute to make sure that all of their names are eventually taken off the NICS list.
So please urge your Representative to vote for H.R. 1181.
But, EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, contact your senators. Urge them to bring H.R. 1181 immediately to the Senate floor as soon as it is received from the House. And demand that they pass it immediately without tinkering with it or delaying it in any way.
Veterans have waited long enough. It is time to give them relief – and do it YESTERDAY. There is a vote expected on H.R. 1181 in the House tomorrow (Thursday). So please contact your Representative and Senators right away in favor of H.R. 1181.
Sincerely,
John Velleco
Director of Operations
I see this as a good indicator as to just how pro 2A the GOP is going to be. If they pass this then we have good hope of passing more of the things we need. If they don’t, it’ll prove most of them the RINOs we fear they are.
We don’t trust you now because you killed Chris Kyle man.
We don’t trust you now because you killed Chris Kyle man.
According to GovTrack, passed today, 240 – 175. Guess what letter was next to the names of MOST of those 175. There were a handful of D’s that voted for it and it looks like three R’s voted against. Guess what other letters were next to those R’s names; NY & NJ. Shocked I tell you. Shocked.
Uncle Sam barely trusts the military to carry guns now.
Whenever my Doctor asks if I have guns I reply ” why would I need one that’s what the cops are for “. Then I go home take 2 aspirin and go to bed.
We served and fought for our country. And we continue to serve. Our communities are enriched, as are our businesses, by vets.
It’s a shame that many in our country treat us like we are out of control animals. Most of these folks have D next to their name.
It is a huge mountain of BS that veterans can get a pass on what lowly civilians would get their rights terminated for. Just because you served means you can have your guns back when lowly civilians wouldn’t? BS
Hmmm.
I’m an ex-Marine, Vietnam era.
Oh, and I don’t give two shits to get into a debate with anyone and, in particular, with younger ex-Marines who insist on using the term “former” vs. “ex”. It’s a distinction without a difference. My own Father was a Marine during WWII (the Army wouldn’t take him as their theater was Europe and we’re central Texas Germans so they sent him down the hall to the Marine recruiting station) and he retired as a Major and used that term.
Both my brothers served the Department of the Navy, one in the Marines and one in the Navy in the same era. And, they both tolerate the use of the term ex-Marine quite well along with every ex-Marine in my neighborhood.
Honestly, it irritates the shit out of my to be a Marine veteran from a long line of Marines that stretch all the way back to early 1800s and have to listen to that crap. If it was good enough for my Dad, it’s sure as Hell good enough for me and CERTAINLY GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU NEWBIES. SO STUFF IT.
Anyway, to return to the topic, regrettably I had to go to court of get guardianship of my Dad when he became demented. I took his firearms with me when I became guardian as I was afraid that he’d hurt himself.
But we wanted him to live in his home as long as possible. So, we hired maids, lawn services, occasional health professional visits, and a live-in housekeeper. Actually, we went through a few housekeepers bacause, well naturally, he was pretty aggressive. And, just before we had to send him to a nursing home we found a lady who would put up with him who ultimately subverted his weak mind against his family.
There was one day at the end of a visit with her and my Dad which resulted in a disagreement she almost sicked my Father on me as if I was a dog. And, as I tried to just get into my vehicle and leave he came swinging at my vehicle and had to taken to the E.R. for a mashed up fist and wrist.
Frankly, I’m very glad I’d taken his guns from him. It was obvious to me that leaving them with him would have been a grave mistake both for me and for all around him.
So, I have some pause about this bill that would restore gun rights to disabled veterans. I hope folks realize the real danger of a mentally deranged veteran with a gun and tolerate reasonable controls.
LF
“Reasonable controls”? So veterans should be second class citizens? Right. Nice troll attempt.
Insulting response.
There must be a way to distinguish between those veterans, drug dealers, criminally insane ballerinas, wanted arch criminals and the rest of us that allows us to stay safe. And, that they might have been veterans before they became incompetent or criminal shouldn’t matter one damned bit.
I only advocate for reason. You seem to have a problem with that?
LF
Army vet here, and your point might be valid as regards this bill if the existing system actually did a credible job of distinguishing which veterans actually had the types of mental health conditions which your father suffered from and which made them a danger to others, and which veterans had completely different issues and did not deserve to lose the rights they fought for. The existing system does not do this. As your experience shows, family or others close enough to actually know the person in question are best able to make those kind of judgements. Not faceless bureaucrats.
It seems to me that advocating for reason would be to advocate for creating a system which could make the kind of individual assessments needed, before beginning enforcement.
We [YOU] can’t even trust them to uphold the Constitution, AND THEY HAVE SWORN TO THAT. But you think you can trust the crazy bastards to determine which vets ‘crazy’ matches their made up bs level of ‘crazy’?
F dat
Apples and oranges, fuckwit.
YOU — based on firsthand observation — decided to disarm your father.
That has nothing at all to do with VA bureaucrats deciding to strip hundreds of thousands of veterans of their rights — often based on nothing more than a short survey form or a couple of minutes conversation.
But you’re cheerleading for just that system being applied to our fathers — and our brothers, our sons and ourselves.
Keep calling yourself an ex-Marine.
It fits you. You’ve clearly forgotten all about your oath to support and defend the Constitution — and I doubt any Marine considers you his brother when you’re eager to throw his rights under the bus for the illusion of safety.
Chris Kyle might weigh in on this topic with more ambivalence than you before he was killed at a rifle range by a mentally disturbed veteran and left his wife and family behind.
He is a Marine. I’m sure he was reasonable. I’m sure that as one of God’s Angels he’d side with me.
LF
Who’s a Marine? Eddie Routh? Routh was a POS (D), so it was an inside job. Anyone take a head count on the number of special forces killed during Ohole’s evil reign? I think a comparison might shock you, and no one’s ‘outed’ special forces like BHO and nobody NOT EVEN ISIS did for that organization like he did.
What was the price on Kyle’s head before he left Iraq? and did anyone in Routh’s family collect for him? Someone ought to find out, but Routh getting the jump on Kyle and Chad is worthy of a conspiracy theory.
“Nice troll attempt.”
Nice attempt at showing a little intelligence. You really have no idea what Alzheimer’s and/or dementia can be like, both for victims and family members. “Sundowning” for instance is a characteristic problem. For some reason by late afternoon people suffering from Alzheimer’s dementia tend to have violent mood swings in late afternoons. They can almost instantaneously, and for no apparent reason, go from being entirely normal to fully and violently enraged. People suffering from dementia also tend to lack volitional controls and, lacking control over their impulses, can very easily inflict physical harm on close family members and then, only a short time later, have no conscious memory of their actions. So, yes, giving a person in that kind of crisis access to a firearm is damned dangerous. That said, we should never take away someone’s rights because some bureaucrat decides that they “might, at sometime in the future” develop dementia or other mental illness.
I don’t know if it’s just coincidence but I found that nice/mild people before contracting Alzheimer seem to become more violent after.
Purely anecdotal, just from the few people I had contact with before and after.
And that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the VA policy in question.
It does nothing to address mental illness or dementia — only whether or not a veteran has had a fiduciary appointed. Something that is done for physical impairments as well as mental ones.
David Walters,
Blanket pronouncements from government are NOT the answer. You acted in your best interest, your dad’s best interest, and your community’s best interest. Bravo! Others can do the same when their parent is no longer mentally competent. And in the few cases where the demented parent has no children to intervene, we have the courts.
That system is far from perfect. It sure beats the Hell out of blanket pronouncements from government bureaucrats and politicians with ambitions of power.
We see once again that the cure to society’s ills lies in the family, NOT government.
That entire story is made up bullshit.
Anyone that calls themselves an ex-Marine probably also wears a hat (cover) indoors.
And no I’m not a newbie.
I wear my cap any damned where I like, home, church, school, yard, afield, etc. And, you’re not going to tell me different so STFU.
Of all the shitty things I had to do to survive in the service, I had and have a debt to pay. I have lived the rest of my life making daily payments.
Maybe you should do as I did and leave the service behind and get on with your life. That’s what a discharge is for, you know.
The day you get yours you’re no longer a Marine, got it. I got mine in 1980, 37 freaking years ago. That’s the day I stopped being a Marine. You can bet I moved on.
LF
You were a duty-shirking buddy-fucker then, and you’ve only become more so in the last 37 years.
You need to move on, Sgt.
Actually, I’ve seen a lot of Marines once they’re out of the service still cling to the mantle of Marine. And, I think that in most situations it’s because the society still unnecessarily honors those who served in the Marines as if we were Gods or something and that because they never did anything important after leaving the service it was the high point in their lives.
Those who did the least when they left the service are ones whose service seems paramount in their assessment of their worth. And, just the mention of being an ex-Marine makes their neighbors and friends quake. And, that soothes their egos because it may have been the only meaningful and honorable and successful thing they’ve ever done and will ever do.
I used to fly the Marine flag along side the national colors for years once I left the service. Then I realized that doing so was just a boast and self-aggrandizement. And, I took the Marine flag down and it sits folded in my bureau now never to fly again.
GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When you leave the Marines use the steadiness and drive to do something that is of such importance and something that is such a great contribution to the nation that your service in the Marines pales into insignificance compare to it.
I did. And, it let me escape the ego-dependency of once having been a Marine.
Dear Veterans and Active Duty Personnel:
Your government hates you.
That is all.
Perhaps “Your government likes you when you perform exactly as it wishes, but if you step out of (its’) line, or expect promises made to be honored, well, fair weather friends and all that.”
The best squad leader I ever had told me “in the Army, they pick the strongest horse and ride him until he breaks, then call him a piece of shit and move on to the next guy.” While the men may support each other, to the chain of command they are just cogs in the machine.
We had a saying in my time. “We fought 2 wars. The one against the enemy. And the one against the officers.”
The truth right here
I’m still waiting to be paid for muster attendance. I guess since they don’t need anything from me anymore . . .
– an 03
TTAG is my favorite blog, but this is too much. It is mostly incorrect information, and completely misinforming. Most people are too lazy to do some research on the subject, but please do, and you will see the rhetoric of this article. I personally don’t have a problem with a court order restraining someone, that has been deemed mentally incompetent and incapable of handling ones own finances, from gun ownership. I know there are many who disagree, some that would even defend Eddie Ray Routh owning a glock 18. Please research this for yourself, instead of forming an opinion based off an article that is entirely misleading. If you do so, you will likely change your mind.
Not being able to balance a checkbook means you’re a danger to others? What about civilians with bad credit ratings? What about bankruptcy? What about a poorly diversified investment portfolio?
Yes, that last one is ridiculous, but if there’s an actual reason to believe a person is likely to injure or kill based on a mental health issue, a court order may be appropriate. The problem is that’s not what happened.
Hey dumbass, do your OWN research. Where in the process of the VA ruling someone unfit to handle their own finances is a judge involved? Hint, one isn’t. There’s no due process whatsoever. Its a purely bureaucratic one. That assuming you agree with the position that not being able to balance a checkbook automatically means you’re not responsible enough to defend yourself (which I personally disagree with). If that’s your standard, you’re ok with 90% of adults in their 20s being denied their constitutional rights? Because if you look at ANY study of personal finances in this country, the OVERWHELMING majority of adults aren’t capable of handling their own.
What about divorce for grounds?
If you got divorced because you were cheating on your spouse, then don’t waste your time telling me what your credit rating is.
Hey brainchild, I mean RocketScientist, please stop showing your ignorance. I won’t call you a dumbass because your problem is ignorance. You are the exact type of person I was suggesting to do some research. Obviously the truth in what I wrote tugged at you emotions and you had to respond. I guess since you call yourself RocktScientist, you don’t feel the need to research things you read, because you’re smart enough to know if something is true or not. I’m sure you believe the Russians rigged the election. Because you and many others are too lazy to fact check this article, I’ll lay out some facts for you.
Over 550,000 Americans can’t own firearms because of “mental incompetence.” 21% of those are veterans.
The law that authorizes gun seizures for those “adjudicated mentally ill” was passed in 1997. (funny how that got blamed on Obama)
The term “adjudicated as a mental defective” includes a finding of (1) not guilty by reason of insanity in a criminal case or (2) incompetence to stand trial or not guilty by reason of mental responsibility in a military court martial (id.).
Veterans, Mental Incompetency, Firearms Eligibility In November 1998, the VBA provided the FBI with disqualifying records on 88,898 VA beneficiaries, whom VA rating specialists had determined to be “mentally incompetent” based on medical evidence that they were incapable of managing their own affairs.54 Thus, a fiduciary (or designated payee) was appointed for them. During the determination process, beneficiaries were notified that the VA was proposing to rate them “mentally incompetent,” and they were able to submit
evidence to the contrary if they wished.55 This determination process is still followed today at the VA.56
For the rest of you, it has nothing to do with credit scores or the ability to balance a check book.
Hey brainchild, I mean RocketScientist, please stop showing your ignorance. I won’t call you a dumbass because your problem is ignorance. You are the exact type of person I was suggesting to do some research. Obviously the truth in what I wrote tugged at your emotions and you had to respond. I guess since you call yourself RocktScientist, you don’t feel the need to research things you read, because you’re smart enough to know if something is true or not. I’m sure you believe the Russians rigged the election. Because you and many others are too lazy to fact check this article, I’ll lay out some facts for you.
Over 550,000 Americans can’t own firearms because of “mental incompetence.” 21% of those are veterans.
The law that authorizes gun seizures for those “adjudicated mentally ill” was passed in 1997. (funny how that got blamed on Obama)
The term “adjudicated as a mental defective” includes a finding of (1) not guilty by reason of insanity in a criminal case or (2) incompetence to stand trial or not guilty by reason of mental responsibility in a military court martial (id.).
Veterans, Mental Incompetency, Firearms Eligibility In November 1998, the VBA provided the FBI with disqualifying records on 88,898 VA beneficiaries, whom VA rating specialists had determined to be “mentally incompetent” based on medical evidence that they were incapable of managing their own affairs.54 Thus, a fiduciary (or designated payee) was appointed for them. During the determination process, beneficiaries were notified that the VA was proposing to rate them “mentally incompetent,” and they were able to submit
evidence to the contrary if they wished.55 This determination process is still followed today at the VA.56
For the rest of you, it has nothing to do with credit scores or the ability to balance a check book.
For the record, I am a former Marine with a VA rating for PTSD. I follow these laws a little closer than most. That is all.
YOU are the one spreading disinformation here.
There’s no “court order” involved in these “findings of incompetence” by the VA — they’re administrative findings by bureaucrats, not court decisions after due process of law.
If there was due process and a court order, no one would be objecting and there would not be a pending act of legislation in the Senate.
Stop lying to us.
This is great news for our veterans. Who were victimized by the Anti-American/Freedom Obama administration. Anyway, What if someone has ” Charles Schwab” as a financial advisor…Would that make them a prohibited person in some states?
Hmmm, and my cousins are upset the DMV renewed my 90 year old Aunt’s drivers license. Apparently, the DMV wants the families to take away the car keys. So, if I am legally responsible for someone’s finances, shouldn’t I be able to decide if he or she can have a gun and or a car? Many friends have removed guns from family members with Alzheimer’s. No one alerted the government.
Many people go through times in their lives when having easy access to dangerous things, whether they are sharp, pointy things, or things that go boom, is a set up for ruination of their own lives and the lives of good people around them. It doesn’t matter if these people are vets or civilians. People are people. Being a vet doesn’t make someone immune to destructive emotional states or psychosis. In fact it tends to do just the opposite. It’s well known that vets have a much higher rate of mental health issues than the civilian population. It’s also well known that proper care is lacking. That said, by itself there is no excuse for a blanket decision to remove the civil right of gun ownership from vets without due process. The bureaucratic algorithm bullshit needs to be trashed in favor of case by case decisions made by people who advocate for the best interest and rights of the veteran.
I just got out of the marines 2 years ago. I was an 0331 and actually got to do my job a few times in Afghanistan during my time, and I still have my right to bear arms. I wanna know how many of these “vets” never saw any action and claimed ptsd or claimed they needed the help balancing their check books or whatever in order to get a few more bucks from the government every month. From my experience, probably a majority, they made their bed, they can sleep in it. Also, David Walters, you aren’t fooling anyone with your bs, if you were a marine during the “Vietnam era” (which I doubt to begin with) dollars to dimes says you were a pog, and never did shit.
Awww look out guys, we got a badass here!!!! *sarc*
A) The tough guy mantra gets you laughed at, not lauded.
B) Lots of guys got told that PTSD was anything and everything. I’m not a psychologist, what the hell would I know about it. If my doctor tells me I have cancer, I’m probably going to just take his word on it. I’m in no position to second guess the guy, he’s the subject matter expert.
“Did you ever think about your deployment after you got home? Yup, thats PTSD, better sign up at the VA so you get it on your disability,”. Most of us had no idea that it would lead to a situation like this, so knock off the scamming, lazy schtick.
C) Even if that guy was a POG, it doesn’t take away the fact that he is still a veteran. Check your fire and respect those that came before.
I wonder the same thing. People know how to take advantage of the system, especially when free money is involved.
Semper Fi!
POG? My honorable discharge says different. And, that’s all anyone needs to know.