The standard bill of fare gun control activists serve up includes demands for a ban on firearms they consider too scary for civilians to use. Firearms like AR-15 rifles, or certain styles of shotguns. Their rallying cry is that these guns have “no legitimate use” — that they’re weapons of war and need to be removed from the streets. Obviously they don’t quite grasp the point of the Second Amendment, but when they start using that rationale to oppose products like TrackingPoint’s rifle, their message goes off the rails. It becomes obvious that they simply are scared of change, and just want everything that doesn’t fit their idea of “acceptable” firearms to go away. The National Gun Victims Action Council is now using this rationale to go after TrackingPoint rifles, saying that they are too dangerous to be in civilian hands . . .
“There are three groups who will buy these rifles — insurrectionists, terrorists and hate groups,” (Elliot) Fineman said in a recent statement. “Given the sniper rifle’s deadly accuracy, no one is safe — this cannot be allowed.”
Mr. Fineman believes that the only people who are buying TrackingPoint’s goods are evil folks. But according to the guys at TP their sales seem to be concentrated in the wealthy hunter and collector demographics. While Mr. Fineman’s fever-dream inspired beliefs don’t match up with reality, that still doesn’t make his words harmless. TP has come under fire before for this same claim by other anti-gun groups, and while I’m sure most of our readers will see right through the FUD there is always a small population who will buy into the fantasy.
The problem is that if Mr. Fineman gets his way, it sets a dangerous precedent. What exactly constitutes “too accurate” a firearm for civilian sales? If one scope manufacturer can be put out of business, Horus and Leupold are next on the chopping block, continuing until all “evil sniper rifles” have been destroyed and banned.
Also, there’s the small fact that no one has been killed with a TrackingPoint gun. The guys have been selling them as fast as they are building them for well over a year, and if Mr. Fineman’s assertion that the only people who buy these rifles are evil people then where is the body count? It’s another example of a gun control group prognosticating about “blood in the streets” and that prediction never actually coming true.
The National Gun Victims Action Council is the boy who cried wolf. They have opposed every gun rights victory, and yet their predictions of doom have never come true. And now they’re crying little green men from Mars, and I don’t think anyone is listening.
“There are three groups who will buy these rifles — insurrectionists, terrorists and hate groups”
Funny, since their promotional video used it for long range hunting.
All it does is overlay the wind compensation and bullet drop iphone apps over the scope reticle…
It’s kind of a neat thing, but I don’t want one.
Yet I will forever defend their right to make and sell them.
Me. Fineman needs a new foil hat.
if he is worried about snipers, he should trade the tinfoil one in for a Kevlar one.
LOL! Yep, the Kevlar helmet with the Tinfoil helmet liner, of course.
Exactly Tom. And if the government didn’t have plans to mandate it, I would be perfectly fine with gun makers developing and attempting to sell smart guns. The market will decide if smart gun technology is commercially viable.
And WHY make smart guns commercially viable? The minute we put electronics in a gun is the minute the government finds a way to disable those guns. I will never trust “electronic” guns…ever.
As an afterthought, How the HELL do I stop all these FRIGGIN adds from overpowering my browser EVERY time I come to this site!? SO annoying!
Armatix (the company whose technology is giving this controversy legs) has already applied for a patent on satellite-guided targetable EMP technology to disable all weapons so-equipped.
It seems fairly obvious that their game plan is to just ban whatever they can, and demonize all guns and gun owners in the process. They don’t give a crap about whether any of what they suggest would make a difference (otherwise why go after items that have absolutely no connection to suicides, which account for two out of three gun-related deaths?)
It’s obviously an incremental approach to their real goal: total ban, period. Going after TrackingPoint is low-hanging fruit because it’s such a specialty item that few can afford anyway. Less resistance equals more likelihood of a successful ban.
The gun grabbers won’t be happy until the last $19 blister pack 4X sniper scope on the Walmart shelf is banned.
2A supporters who only care about their “huntin’ guns” need to understand that after the non-PC & scary-looking firearms are regulated into the dirt, common arms like hunting rifles are next.
There is a definite slice of the gun control movement who is concerned about “too accurate” firearms and the potential crimes they could be used to commit – even though crimes involving rifles are at the bottom of the barrel of gun statistics.
JFK is the most obvious example, but it happened so long ago that it doesn’t have much scare-factor clout. However if someone takes out a well-known politician with a big bore hunting rifle in this day and age, it’s game on for the antis.
2A supporters who only care about their “huntin’ guns” need to be made aware of the fact that when the amendment was enacted, the military had the same kinds of weapons as everyone else. The military today isn’t limited to the same kind of weapons most civilians have, which means the fundamental equation the amendment was meant to animate is no longer in existence. That must be remedied, beginning with the NFA.
Little Elliot needs an intervention. His ranting is clearly the product of a disastrous mix of ignorance, drug abuse and a word processor.
I want one, but not badly enough to pay the big $$$ required. Estimating wind drift and such is part of the fun. Not as much fun when you miss, though.
But missing is part of the fun too.
If there is some gadget that means my brain is no longer a part of the game beyond trigger control, then I don’t want it. I’m not saying TrackingPoint is that, but…
I see TrackingPoint as a tool for those who have enough money to not give a shit about learning to shoot.
TrackingPoint is magnetic north for rich twats, poor shots and trophy hunters.
Gun Control Logic 101:
Certain guns are too easy for people to pick up and use. These guns need to be banned.
Certain guns are too difficult for people to pick up and use. These guns need to be banned.
Gun Control Logic 101:
Guns need to be banned.
Fixed it for you
From an article on Guns America blog:
“I just checked on-line. A Savage Model 111 Long Range Hunter Rifle chambered in .300 Win Mag with a 26″ Barrel and equipped with an AccuTrigger, an AccuStock, and an adjustable comb, sells for $863. A Lucid L5 6x-24 50MM Rifle Scope can be found for $327. Yours Truly is no super sniper, military or law enforcement high-speed, low-drag, kind of guy, but I can consistently hit targets out to one mile with this set-up. This means you can too! And if you are a really disciplined shooter, your results should be phenomenal. This changes everything.”
So tell me, what distinguishes a “sniper rifle” from an every day hunting rifle, and why is a Tracking Point scope a deadlier than a good optic?
Its not, it is the same old same old — it is all about perception and emotions. This is no different than scary black rifles with pistol grips, fore grips and thingy’s that go up. OMG! OMG! OMG! Because I fear, because I do not understand, because I have a closed mind, I thus must ban that which I do not know a damn thing about.
Anyone who wants to ban anything you will find a person who has placed a fear in their mind that they cannot get out. I see this no different than those who are afraid to fly or drive on the interstate. It is a deep emotional response. The fear is more powerful than any logic and these people are mostly ruled by fear.
While fear in many cases is irrational and illogical, I believe the anti-gun industrial complex has done a wonderful of trying to manufacture fear They use fear to control the conversation and make people turn off the thinking portion of their minds.
Mark N.-
“So tell me, what distinguishes a “sniper rifle” from an every day hunting rifle, and why is a Tracking Point scope a deadlier than a good optic?”
Answer- the skill of the shooter.
Hey, don’t give them ideas… I like Savages. But why a magnum when anything from .223 to .30-06 can do the job just as good but quieter?
He said “Mile” as in 1760 yards. If you have more than 5mph wind, you don’t even have enough windage adjustment on most scopes to make the shot with out using a hold off too with those calibers…
So if a gun isn’t very accurate, it is considered a “bullet hose of death”; if a gun is too accurate it becomes a “heat-seeking kitten killing sniper rifle”… Is there any way to make a new gun that doesn’t make Democrats wet their pants? Seriously, I am surprised that they aren’t simultaneously complaining about both smartcars that can’t survive a crash and heavier cars that burn more fuel or are harder to handle or whatever!
Yeah, the ones their security detail carry.
You are right in what you are saying though. They don’t want guns that are accurate to be available. The question then is why? Should people not be able to defend themselves and their loved ones with something that is accurate so the chances of hitting not hitting the intended target are reduced? You could almost make the argument that they want guns that place the lives of the owners, and other members of the public in general, at risk.
There’s no “almost”, it’s definite. Look at the Mass AG’s requirement for a handgun that’s sold by dealers in the Commonwealth – a 10lb or so trigger.
It’s pretty much a fact that a lighter trigger is easier to use and easier to be more accurate with. So why does Mass require an annoyingly bad trigger? So children can’t shoot the guns – literally.
Is there any way to make a new gun that doesn’t make Democrats wet their pants? Maybe out of pizza or guns that are drawn on paper? Oh, wait kids are being expelled from school for pizza shaped as a gun, drawings of guns, and stories about guns. Oh well.
The Progressive Elite seems to have a fear of the peasants, which tells you everything you need to know about their true nature. By Mr Fineman’s logic we should all go back to hunting with bows, and for personal defense, black powder muzzle loaders.
The Sioux upgraded, and it made a difference for them:
http://www.historynet.com/battle-of-little-bighorn-were-the-weapons-the-deciding-factor.htm
Outnumbered by the natives was also key.
The POTG far outnumber the “elites”, that really scares ’em.
As it damn well should.
Last time I checked the basis for the M24/M40 sniper rifles is the Remington 700. One of the most prolific hunting rifles in use. Have a 30/06 & a .308 Mauser in the closet now. 1″ group @ 300metres with no modifications other than a good scope. They have dropped deer, moose & hogs with single shots. PETA & anti’s be damned even my AR has cleared beaver nests & woodchucks. Just because a weapon has multiple uses does not indicate banning it. On that theory a chefs knife would be banned.
Your saying you have a bone stock gun that shoots a .3MOA? Sure you aren’t exaggerating that?
He said he had two.
+1. Sounds like a mis-type. 1MOA at 300 metres I can believe. 1″ at 100 metres, too.
Otherwise, I want some of that mojo, Retired LEO! Whats your secret?
http://www.shootersforum.com/rifles-rifle-cartridges/44634-remington-700-accuracy.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System
Here’s something useful for anyone starting out shooting long.
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/28201/long-range-for-dummies/
And an excellent article by Nick here at TTAG- as a counterpoint:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/06/foghorn/ttag-project-1000-yard-rifle-for-500/
Wife took my mojo when we got married. Try working up hundreds & hundreds of loads a couple of grains @ a time. Combined with spending 10 hours a day at the range 3-4-5 dayd a week. I used to do the tactical LR shooting competitions. Practice the best non-electronic scope you are comfortable with & the reminder that $$$ are on the line help. Also remember that in the westward expansion days shots of 200 yards were the norm for buffalo hunts with 45-70 or larger with primitive, by today’s standard scopes or ladder sights.
Handloads, sandbags, nikon optic & 3+ thoudand rounds down range to get it. Enough practice right ammo & it’s not freedom arms rifles. The only thing that’s been done not stock is optics & someone acraglassed the mauser (pawn shop buy). I have a 91/30 mosin that has a timney trigger & a fiberglass stock that will shoot 1 m.o.a. group @ 100metres no scope again handloads. Better to spend money on ammo and practice than gimmicky computerized.toys.
It also helps that I’ve been shooting 40 years with a lot of headshot practice.
Buy a decent reloading set-up, work up your own loads & find rifles made when the maker gave a damn about quality and reputation. If you look really careful might even find a charles daly .270 made in England for $250 that shoots as well as a $30k purdey. Not as pretty but accurate. Still pays to hit a gun show or Hillsville, VA once in awhile. Guy thought it was junk because CD was on it, people forget Daly was an importer not a maker. Put in your hours, use good ammo & great guns not current junk. Way too hit or miss quality wise.
Thanks, great tips.
I have been to two separate branches sniper’s school, and one in depth military armorers course. Recently got done with a sniper refreshment course, so when I hear someone say they shoot a .3MOA with what they call a pretty stock gun, and a gun that was made most likely decades ago, using a non wildcat round, even if handloaded, I start to call b.s. until I see pics. Guns have got more accurate not less, the amount of work that when into accurizing rifles back in the day was a pain in the ass. Granted not impossible, but would really like to see a verified pic of it.
Went to the one man owner shop where I do all my gun business and he had a CZ-07, a HK-VP9, a Springfield Range Officer and a Glock 42. I quickly became overwhelmed and depressed because I couldn’t make up my mind and left empty handed. Came home and read some of the anti-gun craziness here and now I am even more depressed. I could be in therapy for years.
Should go back and get them all. At least the Range Officer & CZ.
Don’t worry. Over time, you’ll have one of each.
This raises an interesting point. I read that there are an estimated 300 million guns in the U.S., and about a hundred million gun owners.
Some of you people need to start carrying your weight!
You should have grabbed the CZ, I just ordered one this past Tuesday and won’t receive until this coming Tuesday. I did my research and fondled one at my LGS. Found it cheaper online even w/ shipping and the transfer fee. I sold my M&P 9C to get it. I’m getting moist just typing about it.
I wonder how many other things we should ban, since “insurrectionists, terrorists, and hate groups” might use them? Might I suggest public advocacy groups like his?
Reminds me of a news teaser I saw not long ago….something like “Coming up: Could terrorists be using e-mail to plot the next attack in the US?” Yes, and they probably use the phone and buy stamps too.
The fearmongering is shameless, utterly shameless.
“Fineman” is a strange name for that guy, since he’s neither.
I call a gun like that a “LOTTERY GUN” if I ever hit the lottery I might buy one for the fun of it. RIght not the only ones I have seen are on video and at the NRA convention …
Someone should remind Fineman that the rifle that killed JFK was a mail order, surplus Italian Carcano 91/38 that cost $19.95 (including the scope).
Ssssssssshhhhh!
Dang it, Ralph!
Two points:
1. Trackingpoint type systems are what I think of when I hear ‘smart gun’.
2. We could argue that everything that has come before in firearms technology is now obsolete or a “curio and relic” and no longer requires any regulation.
After a four day precision rifle class, I was able to hit an 8″ steel target at 1km ten times with ten shots.
Will Mr. Fineman want a law to make me wear Harrison Bergeron’s glasses?
Anyone who reads that book knows that is exactly the Progressive game plan…
@JasonM: There is nothing so unequal as, “Equality of Result”.
If hate groups are going top buy them then Moms Demand Action must be stockpiling them.
“this cannot be allowed”-
when ever this is told to me, It brings out the rebellious side of me.
Heh, heh, heh, heh. Why, “Revolutions” have started over the very same “Fighting Words”. Just ask the British.
Has anyone else noticed how condescending these anti’s can be? They speak as though a Tracking Point gun can turn anyone into a sniper. They so completely diminish, if not entirely excuse, the skills and experience that most shooters acquire only from years of practice. In the simpleton minds of these anti’s, it’s the gun that makes a person a killer, or in this case, a sniper. No wonder it’s so difficult to communicate with them, from the beginning, they refuse to even acknowledge you, and make the topic only about the inanimate object.
Yeah, but then the headlines wouldn’t be as sexy.
“Deranged Communist Kills Kennedy With Antique Rifle.”
“Deranged Liberal Shoots Reagan With Small Revolver.”
“Deranged Whining Beta Male Goes On Killing Spree In Isla Vista.”
“Police Officer Nearly Overpowered And Killed By Huge Violent Criminal; Successfully Defends Self.”
Truth doesn’t sell.
I think is should be banned because it can shoot down a jetliner at 10,000 feet.
Could this ridiculous claim be filed under HUDFUD?
It becomes obvious that they simply are scared of change, and just want everything that doesn’t fit their idea of “acceptable” firearms to go away.
Incorrect. From their perspective, no firearms are acceptable. They isolate some, point and say, “look how awful this one is! IT MUST BE BANNED!!!!” They would ban all types, styles, calibers and sizes if they had their way.
Am I understanding this correctly?
One of the (many) fears of the anit-gun crowd is the lead flying all willy-nilly from the firearm owners whipping it out and shooting people because of parking spaces and last box of twinkies at the market.
Tracking Point makes a doohickey that you attach to a firearm making it much more accurate.
Doesn’t the Tracking Point doohickey mean LESS lead flying all willy-nilly? That the firearm owners could take out the parking spot thief from the other side of town before the parking spot is even needed?
A good product and company. I personally know one of the officers of this company that I served with in the army. If his claims back up and the DOD validates them I hope they go public with the NYSE.
Out of the ~ 300 rifle “kills” every year I’m going to go out on a limb and say that every one was probably well within the 300 yard range that even the cheapest of traditional glass will get you. Bangers arent going to use nor afford a TP and I don’t recall any of the spree killers taking precision shots at those distances either.
Seems silly to focus on banning these guns when there are much more deadly threats out there……like .50 cal rifles shooting down airplanes, and possibly Santa.
I have absolutely no use for a Tracking Point equipped rifle…That being said, I now want one for the sole reason of some over reaching, over privileged, elitist, bag of cats crazy control freak telling me I can’t have one. Then again, I’ve never needed to justify a firearm purchase in the past. Why start now, eh?
For me the problem is in tracking points advertising. They advertise this as a precision guided firearm. To the idiots in public they see that like a heat seeking missile. Like someone could just fire it into the air and it would hunt you down. It is just a fancy scope. There is really no guiding going on. They are the ones making it sound scary and bad. Is someone came out with guided munitions for small arms then I would be worried.
You anti gun clowns are so stupid. I was in the Marine Corps and we fired the Garand M-1 rifle for qualification from two hundred yards standing -three hundred yards kneeling and 500 yards in the prone position and we didn’t have a Tracking Point rifle and were shooting at a ten inch target and silhouette. We had a stationary front sight and an adjustable peep sight in the rear and no lasers to guide us, so get a grip. Since WWI the military has got the job done and we didn’t turn into criminal animals the day we got our discharge
We the people are not your problem, the parents and or mates of these unstable (mentally ill ) people are the problem and the doctors that treat them are as responsible as the shooter
Not sure just when you served “Eagle One”, but I qualified expert with ” … the finest battle rifle … George S. Patton.” from the standing position only in Uncle Sam’s Army in 1959 – but, only out to 300 meters. Damn fine weapon of war and, for keeping the peace at home. For medium and big game I still prefer bolt actions for their strength and inherent accuracy.
Mr. Fineman sounds like someone who’s worried that broad yellow stripe running up his treasonous back is overlaid with a nice crisp, clear target on both his front and rear upper torso.