Hoplophobes have been attacking the Crossroads of the West gun show held at the Del Mar fairgrounds north of San Diego for years now. They’ve tried to get the county board that governs the fairgrounds to ban gun shows on the publicly owned property.
Last year, the California Rifle and Pistol Association along with the NRA got an injunction to keep the Del Mar Fair Board from banning the show at the facility.
This year, the hair-on-fire, we’re-all-gonna-die contingent of gun banners is taking a new tack against the show…those dreaded ghost guns.
“Ghost guns look like guns. They shoot like guns, and they kill like guns!” said Solana Beach resident Cindi Clemons.
The activist group ‘Never Again California’ flooded Tuesday night’s Solana Beach Council Meeting, asking the city leaders to pass a resolution supporting a ban on the sale of ghost guns at the Crossroads of the West Gun Show in Del Mar beginning this Saturday.
“Eighty percent of the people demonstrating or selling items are selling ghost guns,” said Rose Ann Sharp, founder of Never Again California.
– Richard Allyn in Gun control activists push to ban sale of ‘ghost guns’
Ghost guns?
ZOINKS!
Rut Ro Shaggy!
Jinkies! It’s getting spooky in here, we better skedaddle!
If true good.
As I recall, years ago when they “closed the gun show loophole” in Colorado one of the local network news teams did an expose that proved 50% of the vendors at local gun shows did not do background checks. The following month the local conservative radio station proved it was correct. Half of the vendors at gun shows had no guns for sale and were not performing background checks on beef jerky, jewelry, clothing and bumper stickers. Oh the HORROR!
But, think about the children…..
Oh my God! Just last week a guy at a gun show failed to do a check on the used case he sold me, and those dastardly Girl Scouts sold me a case lot of obesity causing cookies without even asking for my ID.
I know the danger is that OTHER people listen to these nutters, but it just just SO HARD to take seriously the screeds of people who have clearly never even considered walking into a gun show to see what’s up. I think they would be happily surprised at the number of smelly wax, home made jams, and nunchuck dealers.
Total idiots! Its already illegal to sell lowers with no serial number, so IF anyone at the show was selling those (doubtful), they’d be in for a surprise from the ATF. To be honest, if you surveyed any of those ignorant folks the definition of a “ghost gun”, it would illustrate how ignorant they really are.
“Ghost guns look like guns. They shoot like guns, and they kill like guns!”
It is entirely possible that 80% of the vendors were selling 80% receivers. Which are not ghost guns. Because they aren’t guns. They do not in fact, in detail, look like finished guns. They cannot shoot, and unless you beat someone to death with one or choke them with it, they cannot kill like a gun.
I will bet cash money that what they have actually asserted (which is that 80% of vendors are selling unserialized, completed and functional firearms made from 80% receivers), is total bullshit. I’m going to guess the percentage is 0%.
“Its already illegal to sell lowers with no serial number…”
No, it isn’t, and you’re spreading a common misperception. It’s illegal to manufacture (look up the ATF’s definition for that activity) guns without serial numbers with the intent to sell them, but if you assemble a gun for yourself from an 80% receiver, then later decide to transfer/sell it, you may do so without penalty or scrutiny.
I’ve heard this as well (well both that you can and can’t). Is there a source for the rules in selling a “ghost gun” (Could be a good story for TTAG?). I’ve recently gotten into 3D printing and have a number of Glock and AR lowers. If there is a legal way to sell one or two of them I’d like to know how to do it “Legally”.
If you build a gun with the intent to sell it, it must have a SN. It doesn’t matter if you intend to shoot it for a while then sell it. All that matters is that you had the intention of selling it when you built it.
As noted above, unless you’re a licensed manufacturer, you cannot manufacture the serialized part of a firearm with the intent to sell. That’s strictly illegal.
However, if you, as a hobbyist, fold up an AK receiver or 3D print an AR lower, assemble it into a gun, shoot it for awhile, and then decide to sell it, that is generally okay. I’ve seen various numbers thrown about as to how many guns you could sell in this way in a year, without raising the ire of the ATF. I’m not sure that there actually is a number – it’s likely one of those gray areas.
Suffice it to say, unless you have an FFL to manufacture, it wouldn’t be wise to build lowers and sell them unassembled – be pretty hard to make a case that you were building them just for the heck of it and then selling off a couple of surplus ones. One thing that might work is to 3D print them as 80% lowers, without pin holes, fire control cavity, etc. Even then, you would likely need to have specific ATF authorization that what YOU are selling isn’t a firearm.
If there is a legal way to sell one or two of them I’d like to know how to do it “Legally”.
Short answer… NO… It is illegal to mfg a receiver without a serial number specifically FOR SALE…
As usual, JWT has it right in one. Your stated wish to find a way to legally sell unserialized stuff that you haven’t made yet likely puts you on the wrong side of the law ab initio.
Even though you might be able to finesse the intent element (e.g., “but Mr. ATF Occifer, I REALLY didn’t intend any future sale of that gat at the time I made it”), IMO it’s just not worth the effort and risk.
If one of your homemade guns that you sold fell into the wrong hands, got used in a crime, and was traced back to you, don’t kid yourself: BATFE and the politicians would Zimmerman you six ways from Tuesday.
Granted, the odds of all of these happening are vanishingly low, but to what benefit? Stripped serialized AR lowers can be had for under $50. 80% lowers aren’t much more if someone wants to stay off the radar. PSA’s new Glock clone is dirt cheap, and you could sell off all the nonserialized parts from one for not much less than the cost of the gun. Bottom line: you’re unlikely going to be able to sell your homemade gun to a lawful buyer for much more than the market price of a stripped lower plus the cost of the unserialized parts (which you likely had to buy anyway).
So, you run a low risk of a life-changing, catastrophic downside, just to net a fairly small amount of money. That risk/reward ratio makes zero sense to me.
You can call your local ATF guy and have them mail you the thin green book with all of the rules. Actually reading it is another matter entirely…..
Preachin to the choir my friends! We need to find a way to make other people understand how blatant these lies are. And I have no idea how we do that, knowing the “media” is owned by the grabbers. We all do what we can on local levels, but greater minds are gonna have to devise a greater plan.
These “other people” , let’s say 80%, are Karens (others call them Margos). In this case we have a Cindi, and her mean girl leader Rose Ann Sharp.
Facts don’t matter and lies are a means to an end, only their group think and feelings register to them. They are the most privileged demographic, short of royalty, in the history of the world. Now this is their “feel good, for the children cause”.
Men have been marginalized, only other women can shut them down.
Wow, I wish I was in California for the gun show, around here none of the guns at the shows are Ghost Guns. that or maybe I can’t see them….
I get the feeling this reporter doesn’t know what a ‘ghost gun’ is or has ever been to a gun show, but has been given a platform to spread bovine fertilizer.
It just sounds scary, which is enough. Ban ’em!
Are they trying to be racists that the ghost guns are in the white?
“Eighty percent of the people demonstrating or selling items are selling ghost guns,” said Rose Ann Sharp, founder of Never Again California.”
I’m wondering if that statement could be considered libelous (assuming it is false, which seems very likely)?
BTW, I googled Rosie. Sheesh, she makes the Mommies Demand folks look almost rational.
They lie….again.
Some lie out of ignorance, they have been told and accept all the lies of the left.
Some lie out of malice, they hate everything to do with freedom. They want their communist utopia.
The left ignore any actual facts placed in front of them. Their masters provide no facts and anything said by conservatives is obviously a lie.
There will be no end to this.
Watching the economy collapse I’ll be looking for these…guh guh guh GHOSTS!😖
I read on the Internet that 80% of quoted statistics are made up on the spot…must be true!
Yup. Abraham Lincoln said it. Though he was a bit off on the percentile with his whole
“Four score and seven years ago” statement…
Damn Ghost busters stashed their hoard at the wrong place!!!
How far back do you have to go for the metal to not be considered a “ghost gun?”
50%? 25%, 0%?
People have meted aluminum cans to make lowers with hand tools so when it a raw material not a “ghost gun?”
I saw a post somewhere about a guy melting cartridge cases to make a lower from the brass. It was pretty cool.
And the problem with that is,a 80% so called ghost gun is not a gun but rather a inanimate object,until a builder builds his or her own arm from it and then it is their arm.
this is news to me:
“According to law enforcement, nearly half of all guns used in recent crimes in Southern California involved these ghost guns, which have no serial numbers, and do not require background checks, or a waiting period.”
so all we have to do is grind the serial number off a lower and we are above the law?? wow! why hasn’t anyone told us that before now??
/SMDH
3. Serial numbers are required for self-made firearms: California law also requires individuals who possess, manufacture, or assemble firearms in the state to apply to the DOJ for a unique serial number for each self-made firearm.
Any person who possesses a self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm that does not bear a serial number must apply to the DOJ for a unique serial number by January 1, 2019.
Office of the Attorney General California Department of Justice
Any person intending to manufacture or assemble a firearm after July 1, 2018, must first apply to the DOJ for a unique serial number.
If you are eligible and the firearm you intend to make meets the legal requirements, you may apply for a unique serial number by visiting https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/usna. Once you receive your unique serial number, it must be permanently placed on the firearm. According to DOJ regulations, firearms created through 3D printing using polymer plastic must bear their unique serial numbers on an embedded piece of stainless steel. A firearm manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic on or after July 1, 2018, shall contain its unique serial number on 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel. This stainless steel piece shall be embedded within the plastic receiver or frame upon the firearm’s manufacture or assembly. California Code of Regulations, Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 41, § 5519.
After permanently placing the serial number on the firearm, you must upload photographs through the DOJ’s website.
4. Selling self-made firearms is illegal:
With limited exceptions, the sale or transfer of ownership of self-manufactured or self-assembled firearms is prohibited under California law.
The only reason any of this means anything at all is because the politicians running California having gone full anti-American lunatic. Had it not been for such a high degree of complete willful ignorance, this would be completely irrelevant.
If they were ghost guns, how did they even see them?
What the hell, man. Ain’t you ever seen Ghostbusters? Ghosts are NOT invisible, ’cause they were able to get them on film, right?
The bad guy with a gun…..or the mentally deficient guy with a gun……or the terribly distraught family member of a “gun violence” victim…….or the Feelz-Gooder Social Do-Gooder……or the the “hair-on-fire, we’re-all-gonna-die” contingent….are the politician’s easily manipulated USEFUL IDIOT TOOLS to achieve his power and control agenda.
How do they know? Ghosts are invisible.
Huge if true.
It’s time for writers like yourself to call out all those people in the media and mainstream media for all their mis representations and lies. You have the power with your writings and your publication to start calling these people out and other writers also especially at these town halls and at news casts and so on.
They have no problem calling out Trump and every other politician for what they perceive is lies, misinformation or anybody else except for the Democrats who stand up in these debates nd are in there public settings or the anti gunners when they make these false claims. Those who have the powers of Publications that people read to tell everybody about it but it’s not being brought into the mainstream media and into the news outlets like it should be. The average guy like me or average person their words are not going to be put out there by the mainstream media because we don’t have the power like you do.
I say this because I don’t really see a viable way for the average person to get this message out because the mainstream media is doing her best to make sure that they keep their stories going get the ratings and appease the Annie gunners just so they can have the story yet they still would have just decided that they are factual when they’re not.
And if there is a way for us to do that show us how to, put an article out there that tells people how to get this stuff out to start calling the mainstream media and all these news coming out on their lies, all the media Moguls put them out there, we need to be able to stop this kind of misinformation as it’s has become the norm of every day news now for the mainstream media to present these lies or misinformation. YouTube keeps demonetizing all the gun channels who are out there, they did so to guns and gadgets because of his information that when he is telling the truth and absolutely backing it up.
It’s time to make them stand up to the standards they all claim that they are going by, telling the truth when in fact they are misrepresenting all of the facts, and it’s political but yet they claim that they are telling the truth, not biased or politcally motivated and it’s got to stop.
Show us the way to do it, apparently this stuff on the internet is not going to do it.
You’re willing to fire newscasters because they embellish the truth on their past history or what have you but then I don’t call out these people where do you politicians for any of this.
I don’t know what it’s going to take an online petition Drive, phone calls or what but show us the way, I tell you people will pay attention, print the article several times, print it every day for a month so people get the idea so people start getting it, put it on YouTube.
If you really are who you say you are as far as the way you print your words then prove it show us how thank you
Because Gun Control has its roots in racism and genocide today’s gun control zealots are the nazis and racists that they claim to disdain.
How stupid
Meanwhile in my area politicians are talking about “Guns on street”, I walk for exercise and have yet to find any Guns on the street? I keep looking to find a Sig P210 in the ditch but to no avail. Maybe this is happening on some other streets not in my neighborhood?. I would sure like to find some guns on the street. (sarcasm).
Maybe they’re “GHOST” guns too….
Most vendors sell accessories and conservative/“Alex Jones type” merchandise. The majority of “firearm retailers” sell 80% lowers / monster grips / magazine releases that comply with California assault weapon regulation. Attendance is rapidly declining because there is little new stuff and close to a point with insufficient attendance for such a large venue.
I claim that 143% of gun control activists are werewolves.
I’ve got as much proof and a better track record of veracity.
TRUTH!! 100% of gun contol activists don’t want gun control they want guns gone, know absolutely nothing about guns, use false and misleading “facts” to scare the general population, love fake statistics, 96% of them are liberals with 60% bordering on Socialsts and 28% are full blown communists and 43% are alcoholics, 12% have never voted, 8% are undocumented (illegal) aliens, 27% are foreign born and 97% of the leadership are Communist sympathizers trying to undermine the American way of life….
Actually they don’t want guns gone, just YOURS. Like Ernst Stavro Bloomberg, they want to keep their own guns and the MP5s of their bodyguards.
Who is Ernst Stravo Bloomberg?
The Liberals racists who run California supported gay rights, whatever that means. Ya thats right i said it. And they work to insure single mothers marry the state using the Welfare Industrial Complex. Their hypocrite pigs. And support drug legalization. They don’t believe in personal accountability. They have never supported civil rights. They publicly endorsed keeping the racist Mulford Act on the books. California Liberals now own the Mulford Act. They are as bigoted and intolerant as the former california resident and national socialist Tom Metzger.
Ghost guns? Sorry, no such thing. They’re merely “undocumented weapons”.
Lies, lies and more lies from the anti- gun mafia!
I am surprised I haven’t been raided for my blocks of aluminum stock in my shop. Gun controllers would consider it a 0% lower. I suppose the metal pipe stock at my local steel supplier should be considered as ghost cannon barrels. However the pipe stock is not rifled and may considered a smooth bore weapon and owning a smooth bore pipe under 18 inches could be a ATF violation. An old Harley Davidson muffler that is laying around my shop could be interpreted as being a large caliber suppressor.
What is scary is that the leftist gun controllers mind set may even believe this stupidity.