GOA Opposes White House School Safety Commission Call for Red Flag Laws

Gun Owners of America to File Suit Against the Trump Bump Stock Ban

courtesy GOA

Gun Owners of America, apparently understanding that due process-free gun confiscation laws are inherently dangerous, has rebuked the White House’s School Safety Commissions recommendations. The very same recommendation that the NRA approves of.

GOA Opposes White House School Safety Commission Call for Red Flag Laws

courtesy GOA

As I said earlier, I’m a NRA Life Member and I am disturbed by the NRA’s trend. More so since the it appears the NRA still hasn’t filed a lawsuit against the President’s illegal decree banning bump fire stocks. As we saw this week in Vermont, law enforcement confiscated an innocent party’s guns and violated their own laws. It appears GOA understands the inherent dangers to gun rights in the use and misuse of “red flag” laws.



  1. avatar Nanashi says:

    The best way to express your disgust with the NRA is to write retailers with a donate to the NRA option and ask them to suspend it. Calling just gets you Ackerman McQueen, who LOVE how the NRA is going since Wayne LaPierre keeps them well paid (and they pay him in return, which is why the board tried to fire his ass in 1997).

    1. avatar Mack The Knife says:

      Maybe you should actually read Chris Cox statement. I dare you to actually inform yourselves with the truth. Since the author left out the actual statement from Chris Cox and it appears that you were too lazy to research and read it before trashing the NRA with your tired and misinformed worn out rhetoric, here it is.

      School Safety Report
      TUESDAY, DECEMBER 18, 2018
      FAIRFAX, Va.– Chris W. Cox, executive director of the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action, released the following statement on Tuesday:

      “The National Rifle Association applauds the Trump administration’s Federal Commission on School Safety’s final report, issued today. The report includes a number of recommendations for which the NRA has been advocating for years, including reforming our mental health laws, strengthening school security, and addressing an increasingly violent culture. It also calls on the media to stop reporting the names and photos of mass murderers, which only encourages copycat behavior.

      “Importantly, the commission expressly rejected age limitations on firearm purchases, which as the report explains in detail, have no real impact on crime. Finally, we appreciate President Trump’s support for keeping firearms out of the hands of those who have been adjudicated by a court to be a danger to themselves or others in the form of state Extreme Risk Protection Orders — provided they include strong due process protections, require mental health treatment, and include penalties against those who file frivolous charges to harass law-abiding citizens. The recommendations in the commission report will go a long way towards preventing violence and making children safer in our schools.”

      Established in 1871, the National Rifle Association is America’s oldest civil rights and sportsmen’s group. More than five million members strong, NRA continues to uphold the Second Amendment and advocates enforcement of existing laws against violent offenders to reduce crime. The Association remains the nation’s leader in firearm education and training for law-abiding gun owners, law enforcement and the armed services. Be sure to follow the NRA on Facebook at NRA on Facebook and Twitter @NRA.


      1. avatar Nanashi says:

        Chris Cox has already stated his idea of “due process” is needing the cops (you know, like the ones in Broward county) to take the request to a judge a judge (most of whom don’t read the warrants they are given to sign already) and being able to fight in a court because he’s a multi-millionare paid to do the exact opposite of his job and doesn’t understand normal people have to WORK FOR A LIVING and the lawyers aren’t cheap.

        That’s not “due process” at all. That’s a man who has grown so rich off funds he, along with LaPierre, have embezzled from the NRA that he has lost all sense of how normal people live.

      2. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

        The problem is that these order do no provide due process. They authorize men with guns to kick down your door and confiscate your guns. Then it’s up to you–the craaaaazy wacko that even your OWN family/lover/ex-intimate-partner/casual hook-up/friend with benefits says shouldn’t have guns–to go prove your innocence on your own time and at your own expense for howsoever many months before you *maybe* get them back.

        I say maybe because even after completely uncontroversial defensive gun uses when the police are supposed to return your firearm as required by law, they regularly do not. Then it’s up to you to obtain a court order compelling them to do so, only to find that they have “misplaced the evidence.”

        None of that is due process. That’s a grotesque farce of idiocy, bigotry, personal vendettas, and bureaucratic sclerosis masquerading as due process. If you cannot see that basic set of facts, which has already played out repeatedly and been reported here and many other places, then there’s no hope for you.

        1. avatar DaveL says:

          The laws I’ve seen don’t authorize police to enter and search the subject’s home for guns, it just orders him to turn them over. If they have cause to believe he’s holding out on them, then they can get a warrant to search.

          I don’t expect that state of affairs to last. You’re going to have cases where unstable people held guns back and used them for evil, and the temptation to the police of having a tool to search without even alleging suspicion of a crime will prove too seductive to resist.

      3. avatar 556SBR says:

        Couldn’t agree more with Mack the Knife. God, the NRA haters here sound just like the liberal leftists and anything they hate. Reminds me of ANTIFA.

        1. avatar Aperi Oculos Tuos says:

          I just think it’s hilarious that all the NRA-worshippers are so myopic as to not realize there are other, better organizations out there that actually put their money where their mouth is. Instead of spending a crap-ton of funds on marketing, carry insurance, jelly of the month club, etc, the GOA, SAF, etc. go straight for the throat (suits in court).

          Keep throwing your money away if it makes you feel good, but you’re supporting a lobby group who regularly crosses the aisle to make deals (see: compromises) with the anti-gun lobby to come to agreements that they feel make them both look good to their supporters while increasing their own coffers.

          Don’t believe me? I don’t care if you do or not, really. Selective ignorance cannot be cured.

      4. avatar Alan 152132510 says:

        Where was 60 yr old Gary Willis’ due process when law enforcement murdered him in his own home while unconstitutionally confiscating his firearms.
        No evidence, no charges just the word of a pissed off vendictive family member.
        These tyrants and usurpers all need hanged by their criminal necks!!!

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      maybe we’re sending our money to the wrong people..

  2. avatar Ralph says:

    I’m amazed that people who complain the most about a lack of due process have little to no idea what the phrase “due process” actually means.

    1. Proposed 25 September 1789
      Ratified 15 December 1791

      A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        The key to understanding the second amendment is the qualifying preface at the beginning of the second amendment. This qualifying preface shows that everything that follows relates directly to the militia.

        “A well regulated Militia,” shows that the framers of the amendment required regulation of arms.

        1. avatar Huntmaster says:

          You are really trolling here case nobody who’s been on here any amount of time could possibly be so stupid.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Absolutely, 100% wrong. Look again, and see if you can find “for so long as”, “unless”, “until such time”, or anything else which would be “qualifying”. There is nothing, the second phrase “the right of the people to keep and beat arms shall not be infringed” stands completely alone, and you learned that in the eighth grade, you’re just pretending it’s different now because some lying piece of shit told you that’s the way it SHOULD be.

        3. avatar Huntmaster says:

          He’s just trolling Larry… Probably a Bloomberg butboy.

        4. avatar Aaron Walker says:

          More like YOUR just a “Liberal/Globalist Troll ” trying to start a Flame War on a [email protected] sites comment board…But I see YOUR 1st Amendment right NEEDS some “Regulation”….
          Since, of course during that time period/era, there were NO such things as the internet, text msg., e-mail, comments boards, social media platforms, etc…And OUR founding fathers could NOT possibly see this type of advancement going beyond the use of the printing press, the leaflet, the town cryer, the written word through quill, ink, and parchment…Especially, in which a political group hostile to the notions of Liberty and Freedom could construct agitprop and propaganda…Instead of just report information….But could direct and manipulate it..Directing public opinion to a negative outcome instead of unbiased reporting…Giving it a “spin-doctoring” in order to reason away a right or liberty as if it were something that should be “regulated” by a large governmental body…Which of course was never the intent…Since the only thing at that time period which was “well regulated…” Was something that was “working with precision, or properly working order…”

        5. avatar Miner49er says:

          The second amendment specifically grants the right to keep and bear arms only to “free states” so slave states were not granted the right to keep and bear arms.

          Even more interesting, the Militia Act specifically grants firearms ownership rights to non-citizens of the USA.

        6. avatar Huntmaster says:


        7. avatar Miner49er says:

          Why do you believe that anyone who has their opinion that differs from yours is a troll? Please consider the possibility that I am American citizen who has an opinion at odds with yours but has a First Amendment right to express it. And here is the True definition of militia in United States code.

          “The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.”

          So any human being who comes to America and request asylum to become a citizen has the right to keep and bear arms just like any regular citizen of the United States.

        8. avatar Eagle275 says:

          Hey Minor – millions of ex-military and ex-law enforcement disagree with you KommieKrats. Do you really really want to push us to the point of having to prove to you idiots how wrong you are? That’s why we have the 2nd Amendment cuz of people like you. If not for the 2nd you wouldn’t be able to spew the Bullshiyit you spout. I’ll just take your 1st Amendment rights by taking your computer tablet or cell phone and give you a quill ink and all. How would you like that eh cupcake? BTW we can do a civil war eh you maggots always talk about a revolution but never go for it but we can just let us know eh pumpkin Signed a retired career military combat vet of 3 wars🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

        9. avatar Scoutino says:

          The 2nd amendment doesn’t grant anything. It simply forbids any infringement on preexisting right of the people to own and carry arms. It also doesn’t specify which arms, meaning that it protects any and all of them.

          It’s the militia that needs to be well regulated (in proper working order), not the arms. Learn to read, 49er.

    2. Proposed 25 September 1789
      Ratified 15 December 1791

      The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    3. Proposed 25 September 1789
      Ratified 15 December 1791

      No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

      1. avatar RA-15 says:

        AARON M. WALKER nailed it & no compensation will be given !! Turn in your property in 90 days , hand it over to authorities , or you are a felon. Making law abiding citizens , in to criminals , over a piece of plastic , a $500. + piece of plastic at that !!

        1. avatar frank speak says:

          more like a hundred bucks..which is what they used to cost

    4. Proposed 25 September 1789
      Ratified 15 December 1791

      In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

    5. Proposed 25 September 1789
      Ratified 15 December 1791

      In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

    6. Proposed 25 September 1789
      Ratified 15 December 1791

      Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

    7. Proposed 25 September 1789
      Ratified 15 December 1791

      The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    8. Proposed 25 September 1789
      Ratified 15 December 1791

      The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    9. Proposed 13 June 1866
      Ratified 9 July 1868

      1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

      2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

      3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

      4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

      5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        A parrot can repeat complex sentences but has no idea of what he is saying.

        1. avatar Esoteric Inanity says:

          That is just what the parrot wants Ralph to think. When said parrot is on the stand giving his testimony, he’ll have become a stool pigeon.

          As an aside: Ducks are in favor of ERPOs, especially against duck hunters. Never know, that parrot may take advantage of red flag laws to save his homies on the pond.

  3. avatar Michael Buley says:

    Which is why I got a lifetime membership to GOA earlier this year. I got a lifetime membership to the NRA about 20 years ago. I don’t think I would today.

    1. avatar Danny338 says:

      I joined GOA a couple of years ago and contribute monthly, but I still joined the NRA as a life member last month. Discounted through a link at ammoland however. I won’t contribute to the NRA or NRA-ILA. I joined simply to vote on board members.

    2. avatar CarlosT says:

      I’m a life member of the NRA, a life member of the SAF, and I just joined GOA. I also doubt I’d have joined or upgraded my membership in the NRA in these circumstances. “Gun confiscation if the right boxes are ticked” doesn’t fit with “shall not be infringed.”

  4. avatar Fully Involved says:

    I don’t understand the NRA at all. What’s their end-game? I get that they want people to pay membership fees, but they refuse to do anything members want so… how do they expect to keep this up for long? I’m no business expert but this doesn’t seem sustainable.
    And why do manufactures support the NRA? What do they have to gain by supporting the very people trying to take down their industry? Do they support the GoA at all? Every firearm I buy has a “Support the NRA” brochure but I never saw one for the GoA.

    1. avatar Elaine D. says:


      The NRA used to be a very different kind of organization. It’s changed. It’s changed so much that Outside Magazine issued an editorial earlier this year to its readership stating that hunters need to leave the NRA due to how the NRA’s political influence is being used.


      I’ve been observing for a while how the NRA’s propaganda machine has, over the last few years, released material that is eerily similar to stuff being put out on RT, the Russian propaganda YouTube channel. The NRA had a huge chunk of unexplained cash that it spent in the 2016 election, something like 20 or 30 million more dollars than ever before, and Maria Butina/Alexander Torshin had been hanging round since 2011. I always thought it was interesting that the NRA would be taking such an interest in traveling to Russia and cultivating ties with Russia given that Russians do not have gun rights. Seems odd to say the least.

      Who knows, but I kind of think that with Butina’s arrest and plea deal and Erickson likely to get called in, we might (might) learn more, and more about where their big money is coming from.

      BTW, I saw that you gave me some support on a thread the other day. Thanks for that. I comment here a lot less than I used to because the insults and trolling are just kinda repetitive, LOL.

      1. avatar Broke_It says:

        It’s fair to say there’s a difference between trolling and well earned scorn. Chin up buckaroo

        1. avatar Elaine D. says:

          The point, my dear, is that such scorn is absolutley meaningless to me, particularly from people who don’t write their own articles, so it makes completely uninteresting reading.

        2. avatar Broke_It says:

          Lol, you have Dan turn off my ability to post?

        3. avatar Broke_It says:

          Nevermind, it just doesn’t like my wall of text. Anyway, let’s keep it interesting. I don’t know what your operator’s rate for tall tales is but seeing how it’s you my fee is double.

          Coming up next week on the “Transcredible Exploits of Elaine D’s ‘Operator’ Friends:”

          It was predawn and we were coming in low and hot over the generic jungle landscape. Hours earlier the team had assembled at the forward post on the beach head. It was there I learned that slimy bastard Al Dillon would be joining us and as we sat bantering in the red lights of the chopper belly something told me this operation would be different.

        4. avatar Broke_It says:

          Fuck it. This stupid wonky ass comment system and you have won. I’ll no longer darken this digital door with my clicks. TTAG has gone to garbage anyway. Worst of luck to you and your endeavor to lead POTG to their legislative demise. Also, your line of work is only bilking people who don’t know better for some nebulous idea of help.

        5. avatar Elaine D. says:

          No, my dear. I don’t ask DZ or anyone else to do anything with anyone’s comments. People can say whatever they like. You know, you can always just choose to bypass my pieces instead of reading them and getting all miffed about it. But, I do like the beginning of your tale…

        6. avatar Broke_It says:

          The mission was simple enough, or so we were lead to believe. Hostage extraction, off the books. A quick in and out, but of course these things never go as planned.

          It was a solid crew, I’d worked with all these men before and together we formed a seamless tactical machine. Dutch, Mac, Billy, Blain, Poncho, and Hawkins.

          Billy was stoic, the only time I’d ever seen him crack a smile was when Hawkins would lay it on thick with jokes about his wife’s puss.

          Dutch was the quiet type, but the wheels were always turning. The kind of guy to call bullshit if everything was in fact all bullshit.

          Blain was the boisterous one. A mountain of testosterone rocking a fat chaw. To turn down a dip would always earn his scorn and derision. In fact, the sonofabitch even spit on Al’s boot.

          And that was the day Governor Jesse “the body” Ventura called me a faa get and taught me the secret to becoming a sexual tyrannosaur. (Hint, it involves copious amounts of loose leaf)

      2. avatar Broke_It says:

        Coming up next week on the “Transcredible Exploits of Elaine D’s ‘Operator’ Friends:”

        It was predawn and we were coming in low and hot over the generic jungle landscape. Hours earlier the team had assembled at the forward post on the beach head. It was there I learned that slimy bastard Al Dillon would be joining us and as we sat bantering in the red lights of the chopper belly something told me this operation would be different.

        The mission was simple enough, or so we were lead to believe. Hostage extraction, off the books. A quick in and out, but of course these things never go as planned.

        It was a solid crew, I’d worked with all these men before and together we formed a seamless tactical machine. Dutch, Mac, Billy, Blain, Poncho, and Hawkins.

        Billy was stoic, the only time I’d ever seen him crack a smile was when Hawkins would lay it on thick with jokes about his wife’s pussy.

        Dutch was the quiet type, but the wheels were always turning. The kind of guy to call bullshit if everything was in fact all bullshit.

        Blain was the boisterous one. A mountain of testosterone rocking a fat chaw. To turn down a dip would always earn his scorn and derision. In fact, the sonofabitch even spit on Al’s boot.

        And that was the day Governor Jesse “the body” Ventura called me a faggot and taught me the secret to becoming a sexual tyrannosaur. (Hint, it involves copious amounts of loose leaf)

        1. avatar Elaine D. says:


          Hahaha! I love it! I know you don’t like me, but this is actually really a great beginning to something and I really like it. Good work. I want to see the rest submitted as a full tale to TTAG!

        2. avatar Broke_It says:

          Thank you for the kind words. As to seeing how it all panned out my story is actually already a movie believe it or not. Personal differences aside, merry Christmas.

      3. avatar Nanashi says:

        In 1997 the board tried to fire Wayne LaPierre after they caught him embezzling money and he refused a direct order to stop. They failed because they needed 75% and Wayne kept 25% on his payroll.

        The NRA was never good.

      4. avatar Fully Involved says:

        @ Elaine
        Yea don’t mention it. I’m sorry you have to put up with that rudeness, but I’m glad to hear you’re not letting it get to you. I’ve been ghosting TTAG for a few years now, and perhaps my memory is failing me, but I don’t remember the comment section being quite this toxic. I’m at a loss as to where this hostility is coming from, we all essentially want the same thing here (2A-related anyways).

        And thanks for the info. I had no idea the NRA was so heavily involved with Russian political shenanigans (I’ve been knowledge-binging for the past two hours starting from that Outsiders Online link and rabbit-holing from there). I find it amusing that even the Fudds are beginning to hate the NRA.
        Meh, truth be told Russia’s involvement with the NRA is nothing compared to everything else they’ve been doing elsewhere in the country and world at large. The logistics of such an operation alone is pretty awe-inspiring.

        Silver lining: now Democrats and Republicans can both agree on something, that the NRA sucks (and who said our country was divided?).

        1. avatar Elaine D. says:


          It’s utterly painful to watch, but here is that entire “Erran Morad” segment.


          One is just left wondering how these folks did not understand that they were being spoofed.

        2. avatar Fully Involved says:

          -________- Oh for fuck’s sake…

        3. avatar Miner49er says:

          Yes, we thought we could count on the patriotism of the NRA leader ship but it seems they sold their soul for a few shekels of silver. Russia has been her into me for 70 years and that’s not likely to change anytime soon. And President Trump’s strange appetite for absolute power and his love of the dictators of the world shows he cares not for democracy.

          Godspeed to marine Robert Mueller, a true American hero and patriot in search of truth.

        4. avatar Elaine D. says:


          I guess if one wanted to fall down the rabbit hole and go full on conspiracy mole, one could consider the possibility that the KGB is doing exactly what it does well: creating the perception of a culture war that will cause Americans to take up arms against other Americans in the end. That’s kind of how they tend to roll. There are also some who would say that Marx believed in arming the proletariat only until power is taken, at which point arms are stripped away.

          Even if one doesn’t go there, though, the NRA is supposed to be an American organization focused on American citizens and American gun rights. Hanging out with power brokers who do not give their citizens gun rights seems quite antithetical to all of this. But what do I know.

      5. avatar Erik Weisz says:

        I was leaning towards the pushback against your comments and articles being a little over the top, but holy shit – Marina Butina conspiracy theories? Srsly? Are you a Rachel Maddow sock puppet? You must think Mueller is really onto something, too. Stop listening to liars and retards.
        BTW, your “operator” is really Brian Williams.

        1. avatar Elaine D. says:


          Sweetie, there have been numerous journalistic pieces on the whole Maria Butina thing. She got arrested earlier this year, and pled guilty to acting as an unregistered Russian agent I think last week. Erickson, her partner who hooked her up with the NRA, hasn’t been brought in yet but I think that’s on the way. There are numerous photos of her with NRA bigwigs at events.

        2. avatar Elaine D. says:

          And it amuses me that so many people think the person I interviewed is not real. He is quite real, and well known in certain competitive shooting circles; in fact, Smith & Wesson asked him to be on their team at one point. The other side of his life is not something a lot of people know about, which is why I decided to start with him. But he isn’t the only one I have lined up for interviews.

      6. avatar possum says:

        Howdy elaineD, hey I went in for an evaluation the other day and was quite impressed with the way they did things. Better then in 94. I was expecting a bunch of BS. I’m giving that particular Mental Health facility a thumbs up.( I kinda didn’t like the passive aggressive thing though, lol, ) How’d they pick up on that??? Still trying to figure out what question I answered that tipped them off.

        1. avatar Elaine D. says:


          Haha, maybe it’s the questions you DIDN’T answer that tipped them off!

          Here is a meme for you, since you are one of the few on this site who actually get my sense of humor. Some bleak Eastern Bloc comedy for you.


        2. avatar possum says:

          ☺ . The magazines we brought went between the English book . ( Some pages looked edible, as in by you books and buy you books, all you do is eat the pages) Perhaps that’s a reason for my outstanding gramer and spellin, Har har

      7. avatar New Continental Army says:

        People are leaving the NRA because it’s not pro gun rights ENOUGH, not the other way around. Just check out why TTAG comments section for reference on this matter.

    2. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      “I don’t understand the NRA at all. What’s their end-game?” A hallmark of politics is “Always choose your battles”. In this, the NRA has—literally for decades—been stunningly successful in protecting gun rights.
      Something to keep in mind before you right off their failure to go to the mat over issues like this is that the organization is successful because it maintains productive relations with both elected Republicans and Democrats. I think it’s obvious that that these relationships inform the NRA policy positions. That said, I don’t agree at all with the NRA’s position on due process as a way of making red-flag laws fair and equitable. There can be no fairness, no due process, about a law that turns pissed off ex-wives into gate-keepers with the authority to cause someone’s constitutional rights to be violated.

      1. avatar Fully Involved says:

        “… the NRA has—literally for decades—been stunningly successful in protecting gun rights.”

        “Protecting gun rights”… hm, interesting choice of words. All forms of protection fade with use, so maybe the NRA classically thought it was only delaying the inevitable.

        What’s your take on all this? What do you think should be done?

  5. avatar JOHN B THAYER says:

    Here is a scenario:
    Billy-Bob calls a mental health hot-line telling them he is very depressed.
    The operator asks him if he owns firearms.
    Billy-Bob answers, “No.”
    Then the operator asks if he access to firearms.
    Billy-Bob tells her, “Yeah, all my friends and relatives got guns.”
    The operator then asks him if he would be able to get a gun from any of them.
    He tells her, “Yeah, I prolly could.”
    She responds with, “From which ones?”
    Billy-Bob says, “I dunno, maybe from all of them except my dad.”
    Operator asks Billy-Bob, “Can you please help me by giving me their names and address?”
    And he answers, “Well, yeah, I guess so.”
    And he proceeds to do so.
    The operator then forwards the list to the local sheriff’s department.
    They apply for ERPO’s for everyone on the list.
    Judge grants all of them.
    Jack booted thugs show up at the doors of all of innocent firearm owns and demand that they surrender all their guns to the government.

    1. ” Arbitrary and Capricious order!” I wouldn’t open my door…THEY would have to kick it and it would ALL be on video camera 📷! I wouldn’t surrender any of my constitutional rights and I wouldn’t co-operate with an UN-American, and UN-Constitutional order! 🗽

      1. avatar John in AK says:

        And they will have the only copy of the video recording, after they kill you. Then they will produce a one-sided press release explaining how they eliminated a threat to public safety armed with assault weapons and 3-D printed guns, and how another lunatic-fringe Sovereign Citizen wacko-bird has been eliminated. Everyone in the community will cheer, and comment on how you were such a nice fellow, but ‘quiet,’ ‘kept to himself,’ and ‘something always seemed a bit odd.’
        Meantime, in Sioux Falls, a turtle farts.

        Being a martyr is a fine and noble profession, but one has to understand right from the first day of work that things are going to end very badly.

        Always comply under protest, and survive to sue.

        Your family and your dog will thank you for it.

        1. avatar Defens says:

          That paradigm may be changing though. It seems the climate is changing, and even if you win a suit, you’ve lost a lot in the process. It may be more fruitful to practice your Mozambique than to find an attorney for your speed-dial.

        2. avatar CZ Rider says:

          Wasn’t there just an article about some guy getting ERPOd because his nephew was apparently plotting to steal his guns and shoot up a school? You’d think they would’ve at least had the restraint to just inform the guy of the threat seeing as his only crime was attempted victim-of-theft, but they apparently saw fit to just take his stuff anyway. I wonder how long it’ll be until police start getting rubber-stamp judges to sign off on fabricated ERPOs just to get guns off the street…

        3. avatar GS650G says:

          Many people are going to find out they are fingered under a ERPO at 5 am when the Door is taken down. After 10K in legal expenses and 6 months you might get your damaged scratched guns back. Or not. And you’ll be flagged in NCIS for a while, more costs resolving that problem. Neighbors won’t talk to you because you’re a gun nut and they don’t want to have their guns taken because you know them well. You’ll lose your job because co workers will be afraid of you.

          This is the policy they have been waiting for.

          Some people might decide it’s better to be disarmed.

  6. avatar George Overall says:

    What are the NRA and the Pres thinking? Good question, the answer is certainly not thinking about the legal gun owner. I am not sure how to proceed but I definitely know how not to. No funds to the NRA and no votes in 2020 if the Pres and his henchmen run again. The saviors of the Second Amendment community have had two years to do something positive and the red flag law and bump stock ban is what they came up with. Maybe they switched parties and forgot to tell us.

    1. avatar Fudds McKenzie says:

      You can tell the supposed duty to vote is bull because of how shrilly people defend it. Don’t vote can’t complain is a non-sequitur. Choice of two evils isn’t moral whitewash. Voting in an election like that just shows the people who set it up that you’re an extra predictable tool and can be dealt with high-handedly.

      How does not-voting repeal the NFA, GCA and FOPA? The same way voting does, the same way yelling at my car fills the gas tank; not at all. Sorry. It would be nice if you could vote up a cure for cancer but you can’t do that either. Someone’s going to blame me, but I’m just the messenger. Not being a tool is it’s own reward, this isn’t kindergarten, there’s no extra gold star coming.

      1. avatar Ton E says:

        George Carlin was absolutely right if you vote you have NO RIGHT to complain.

        1. avatar Fudds McKenzie says:

          Exactly. Sigh, how have we stagnated so much as a society that people are still naive about voting? New illusion of control due to online echo-chamber circle-jerks maybe. Like, if people had to vote and be quiet or only talk about it in RL it wouldn’t be as much fun, no consequence-free tribalism.

  7. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    Here below are a list of successes brought to We The People by various tyrants and Negotiating Rights Away.

    1791: The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is ratified.
    The amendment reads:

    “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

    After That
    1871: The National Rifle Association was formed by Union Army veterans Col. William C. Church
    and Gen. George Wingate.

    After that, they start going the other way

    1934:  http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm

    1939 http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

    1968: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

    1986:  http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/46hard.pdf

    1993 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5087/text

    1994 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5087/text

    What is a inalienable individual right and what is a privilege?
    What does “shall not be infringed” plainly mean?
    Does the NRA support the unalienable individual right of the individual to keep and bear arms that shall not be infringed by government or does the NRA support government privileges?

    A record of infringements that tyrants and Negotiating Rights Away can be proud of.

  8. avatar Broke_It says:

    Nevermind, it just doesn’t like my wall of text. Anyway, let’s keep it interesting. I don’t know what your operator’s rate for tall tales is but seeing how it’s you my fee is double.

    Coming up next week on the “Transcredible Exploits of Elaine D’s ‘Operator’ Friends:”

    It was predawn and we were coming in low and hot over the generic jungle landscape. Hours earlier the team had assembled at the forward post on the beach head. It was there I learned that slimy bastard Al Dillon would be joining us and as we sat bantering in the red lights of the chopper belly something told me this operation would be different.

  9. avatar Esoteric Inanity says:

    It would seem that these recent actions by the President have served to genuinely reveal the divide, not just in the “gun community” but in the nation as a whole. Ironic how those that seem to treasure their rights so strongly as to slowly relinquish them so as to hang on to what little remains are steadfastly clinging to the NRA as Nero clung to his violin while Rome was ablaze. It is even more unbelievable that those that were once vehemently opposed to such egregious acts as unhindered search and seizures, civil asset forfeitures along with inane prohibitions, are now ebulliently welcoming such infringements by the government. There are very few true liberals around anymore on the left, even fewer on the right that currently comprehend such once sacred principles that accompany individual liberties.

    The NRA apologists would give up their eyes to save their nose. They have no appreciation for Patrick Henry’s aphorism “Give me liberty or give me death”. One does not retain their rights by surrendering them, nor do they recover them by relinquishing more. To do so is to surely lose all one’s right inevitably. Not to mention that the second amendment cannot be saved at the expense of the fourth and fifth.

    Traditional liberals used to understand that the erosion of any right would serve to erode all others eventually. ERPO’s will not stop at just firearms, got some prescription meds on hand, how about a fancy sports car or a stockpile of cleaning solvents? Such things will serve to provide avenues for unjust search and seizures, necessitate firearms registries (Just as UBC’s would do) and strengthen civil asset forfeiture laws. There are no due process protections that can rectify ERPO, as the intention of such class of law is intended to completely circumvent due process and constitutional protections.

    1. avatar Fudds McKenzie says:


  10. avatar anarchyst says:

    Quite often, firearms owners are their own worst enemies. The duck hunters don’t like the AR-15 “black rifles” so they see no problem if attempts are made to ban them. The traditional rifle owners don’t like machine guns, so they have no problem with them being legislated out of existence. Some pistol owners see nothing wrong with certain long guns being outlawed just as some rifle owners would have no problem seeing pistols banned. You see, anti-gunners want them all. They will chip away a little at a time until their goal of civilian disarmament is complete. They have an excuse for banning every firearm. Scoped bolt-action rifles are defined by anti-gunners as “sniper rifles” because they are “too accurate”. Magazine-fed weapons are suspect because of high (actually normal) magazine capacity. Handguns are suspect because they are “easily concealable”. The gun grabbers want them all and have made (flimsy and suspect) excuses for banning every type of firearm. They don’t care how long it takes. and will use incrementalism to their advantage.
    Friends, ALL firearms advocates must “hang together” and realize that an assault on ANY means of firearms ownership and self-defense is an assault on ALL forms of firearms ownership and self-defense.
    There is absolutely NO ROOM for complacency among ANY Second Amendment supporters. An attack on one is an attack on ALL…
    ALL firearms laws are unconstitutional on their face. Imagine the hue and cry if “reasonable” restrictions were placed on First Amendment activities, especially with the “mainstream media”. The Second Amendment is clear–what part of “shall not be infringed” do politicians and the media not understand…of course, they understand full well…it’s part of their communist agenda…
    Even the NRA bears some responsibility for capitulation on matters concerning firearms. The NRA failed when it allowed the National Firearms Act of 1934 to stand without offering opposition, the 1968 Gun Control Act, the NICS “instant check” system, the “no new machine gun for civilians” ban in 1986, the so-called “assault weapons ban in 1994, and other infringements of the Second Amendment. Let’s face it. What better way to increase membership than to “allow” infringements to be enacted and then push for a new membership drive. Yes, the NRA has done good, but its spirit of “compromise” will only lead to one thing…confiscation.
    If the NRA is truly the premier “gun rights” organization, it must reject ALL compromise…

    1. avatar george overall says:

      Excellent points, anarchyst.

    2. avatar Defens says:

      IIRC, the NRA actually proposed NICS as an alternative to egregious waiting periods, trading one infringement for another.

      1. avatar GS650G says:

        They supported NCIS before technology made it possible to index everyone next to the firearms they have and address they live at.

        In a millisecond they will have a pick list of the choice addresses where the biggest media splash can be made.

  11. avatar CarlosT says:

    Vermont recently had a particularly egregious application of its Red Flag Law: https://www.pagunblog.com/2018/12/20/red-flag-laws-are-bullshit/

    The short and not-so-sweet: two teens were planning on shooting someone, and one of them had a relative who owned guns. The authorities caught wind of the plans and used the Red Flag Law to confiscate the relative’s guns. So now if you are related to people who are suspect, you lose your guns.

    1. avatar CZ Rider says:

      I hope they get sued out of existence. Even if these kids were a credible threat, unless there was clear evidence that the guy was an accomplice they had no right or reason to do anything beyond knock on his door and advise him of the situation.

      1. avatar GS650G says:

        If you think a lawsuit would be successful you’re dreaming. At best they authorities might tone it down for the next one or ask the legislature to broaden the statue a bit.

  12. avatar Fudds McKenzie says:

    The NRA is good for fudd storage. I’m dead serious. That’s not even a dig, fudds are people, they pay taxes, they should have a voice, it’s good there’s a place for them.

    It needs to stop being the voice of the whole cause and the broker of our political capitol though. RKBA fundamentalists need to get out. The industry and warm bodies who aren’t too fudded up will follow proportionally. Don’t worry about the money and political capitol left behind. Worst case it’s spilled milk, forget about it. More likely, and I hesitate to say this because all of you magical-thinking flakes still think you’re entitled to a quick, easy win coming, and you’re going to think I’m trying to give it to you or buy you off. I don’t want to indulge your unhealthy fantasies here but more likely we can still use the NRA by controlling the pro-gun narrative and leading the NRA from the outside, like Cody Wilson almost succeded in doing by forcing the 3D gun issue.

  13. avatar Tom says:

    It amazes me so many Americans got fooled by Trump, the NRA, etc. How many times do you have to get f****d to get it?

    1. avatar Fudds McKenzie says:

      Frequency is the key, up to one schlonging per week, more around holidays, slips right through their attention spans and pattern-recognition ability. They can still keep thinking happy thoughts.

      Another key factor is being overt about it. If the NRA or Trump concealed their contempt for the RKBA, some people might feel clever to discover it and not ashamed to have been “fooled”. But rubbing our faces in it creates an unpleasant, shameful reality that it’s easier for most of these peasants to just ignore. And they will. End of the day they won’t starve, there will still be sports events to watch – it’s nor a bad deal, a comfortable life as a tool. Without consciousely realizing it they just take the deal.

  14. avatar Greg says:

    NRA is a business that cares about money not our rights. I joined GOA and encourage others to.

  15. avatar possum says:

    I just wanna be left alone. I wish possums could hibernate, go to sleep, wake up, and “Hell I slept the war away, did I miss anything?”

    1. avatar MyName says:

      Well, possums can play dead. Although, I suggest you keep one eye open.

      1. avatar possum says:

        Well that answered the question on my girlfiend problem, I wish she’d keep one eye open at least and grunt once in awhile.

  16. avatar kap says:

    Remember the NRA sold us out in 1933-1934, 1968, 1994, 2018-2019! political games go along to get along except it’s peoples rights, red flag storm troopers are on the horizon in this Democratic controlled utopia, loook for mass illegal immigration next after they finish off the Constitution time to succeed from the Union!

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